Your opinion of italians

[oreo_cookie]

Southern Italian customs and mindset may have some commonalities with Levantine Christian culture (and they all tend to be noisy, loud, gather in large groups, etc) by virtue of being Mediterranean whereas northern Italians are more quiet and reserved, like the French.

 

[Boss]

Southern Italian customs and mindset may have some commonalities with Levantine Christian culture (and they all tend to be noisy, loud, gather in large groups, etc) by virtue of being Mediterranean whereas northern Italians are more quiet and reserved, like the French.

I don't view 'the French' as quiet or reserved but then I don't claim to hold any kind of absolute authority on such bizzare matters (like who's "louder" for example).

In any case, I think it's much more serious to talk about concerete facts - language, history, religion - than talk about the Christian Levantine (itself a hugely diverse group - perhaps more so than the Italians) "mindset" or culture.

 

[Riccardo]

Imho, as an Italian, n° 1-2-6-8.

Northern Italians look surely more central european than middle eastern.

Southern Italians too. Southern Italians are dark, but that doesn't mean that they look like Middle Eastern. I think they are a good mix, but since the dark ones look more like Greek/Balkan people while the light ones really look like Northern Italians. No difference for me. My father comes from South Italy and I really look more central european than middle eastern!

Number 3, no for obvious reasons.

Number 4, is the opposite of number 2.

I think that Northern italians don't look "Celtic" at all. They can look Mittle-European in many cases, but they don't have "Celtic" features (if this means something). But this is always my opinion as a NON-expert.

Southern italians of course have a majority of Greek look!

Northern Italy for me is Southern Europe. As Catalunia, Provence, etc. That doesn't mean that Milan is like Athens or that Lombardia is like Sicily, but still South of Europe. Milan and Roma are different, but still closer than Milan and Berlin or Paris.

Number 8 as explained above!

Southern italy is not Middle Eastern, but Northern Mediterranean I think. It's really different.

 

[Boss]

Imho, as an Italian, n° 1-2-6-8.

Northern Italians look surely more central european than middle eastern.

Southern Italians too. Southern Italians are dark, but that doesn't mean that they look like Middle Eastern. I think they are a good mix, but since the dark ones look more like Greek/Balkan people while the light ones really look like Northern Italians. No difference for me. My father comes from South Italy and I really look more central european than middle eastern!

Number 3, no for obvious reasons.

Number 4, is the opposite of number 2.

I think that Northern italians don't look "Celtic" at all. They can look Mittle-European in many cases, but they don't have "Celtic" features (if this means something). But this is always my opinion as a NON-expert.

Southern italians of course have a majority of Greek look!

Northern Italy for me is Southern Europe. As Catalunia, Provence, etc. That doesn't mean that Milan is like Athens or that Lombardia is like Sicily, but still South of Europe. Milan and Roma are different, but still closer than Milan and Berlin or Paris.

Number 8 as explained above!

Southern italy is not Middle Eastern, but Northern Mediterranean I think. It's really different.

Outside this strange forum, trust me, not many people think Southern Italian culture is closer to Middle Eastern cultures than it is to the rest of Italy. I thought people were actually joking but no.

Not that genetics are discussed but far as I am able to tell (people can correct me on this), Southern Italians are closer (genetically) to Northern Italians than they are to Middle Easterners.

Though I don't think genes play any role in julia's federalism. If they do, I despair for humanity. I don't actually understand what the point is of including "looks" into political discussions.

 

[Riccardo]

Outside this strange forum, trust me, not many people think Southern Italian culture is closer to Middle Eastern cultures than it is to the rest of Italy. I thought people were actually joking but no.

Not that genetics are discussed but far as I am able to tell (people can correct me on this), Southern Italians are closer (genetically) to Northern Italians than they are to Middle Easterners.

Though I don't think genes play any role in julia's federalism. If they do, I despair for humanity. I don't actually understand what the point is of including "looks" into political discussions.

I agree. I even think that "genetical" issues are something really difficult to understand and that too many people talk about it without knowing many things (of course I'm not talking about Julia!). At least I know that I don't know anything about it (so Socratic eheh) and I don't mess with it. I just say that I don't like those kinds of divisions because if we divide nations in regions even genetically, well, I should be divided even from the rest of my neighborhood, since there is a scale of differences that is not regular, it is gradual. And we wouldn't ever stop to be divided for the most different reasons.
I think that, whatever were the reasons, right or wrong, we are a nation since a lot of time. And i don't really think that Northern European look like Central European if Southern European look like Middle Eastern. Reasoning this way everybody is different even in regions (even in Northern Lazio are more Tuscanian than in Southern Lazio, closer to Campania, lol).

 

[oreo_cookie]

All I know about southern Italian genetics, with relation to Middle Eastern, is that Dodecad Oracle has at times given Sicilians the result "53% Assyrian, 47% Portuguese" or some close variation of it.

Generally I just think of southern Italy as being similar to the rest of Italy as well as to Greece.. but I think that the vibe in the south is more "Mediterranean" rather than distinctly European.

 

[julia90]

Southern italy is not Middle Eastern, but Northern Mediterranean I think. It's really different.

with this i agree

 

[julia90]

Outside this strange forum, trust me, not many people think Southern Italian culture is closer to Middle Eastern cultures than it is to the rest of Italy. I thought people were actually joking but no.

Not that genetics are discussed but far as I am able to tell (people can correct me on this), Southern Italians are closer (genetically) to Northern Italians than they are to Middle Easterners.

Though I don't think genes play any role in julia's federalism. If they do, I despair for humanity. I don't actually understand what the point is of including "looks" into political discussions.

well, althought there are slim gradial differencens all along italy.. the big obstacle is the language.. if someone speak in strict dialect i don't get what they say.. so i'm excluded from the conversations.. i feel more in touch for example with a romenian or albanian who speak my language (standard italian), than with those italians who speak in strict dialect.


with this i want to inform the posters that i have even acquired parents whose origins are in southern italy and they are well integrated here

 

[julia90]

even in Northern Lazio are more Tuscanian than in Southern Lazio, closer to Campania

yep, Tuscia should be included in Tuscany, as well as much parts of Umbria !! : -)

 

[julia90]

here's the famous genetic map, but culture is way more important than genetics
tuscans are inbetween northern and southern italians (likely an offspring of a northern and southern italian would cluster with us tuscans)

 

[MOESAN]

Central Europe area, as taught to my father, his father and to myself ( in Italy and Australia) is the following countries/regions
Slovenia
Austria
Northern Italy
Switzerland
Baden
bavaria
Czech
Freiburg
Wirtenburg
and Hungary

I might have missed one or two regions ( maybe wurzburg and alsace )

Linguistic profesors say, central and southern Italy speak Gallo-Italic and northern italians speak Gallo-Iberic
Check La Spezia-Rimini line

concerning linguistic
Sorry but I find this affirmation a nonsense:
for origin and phonetic evolution, Central and southern italian dialects are italic-italic (in a way) and northern italian dialects are gallo-italic, NOT the contrary! "iberic-italic"??? what is that??? some southern dialects and S-corsican and sardinian show some curious evolutions but we find some paralleles in gascon ('cacuminal'(?) -LL >> -DD or -T) - the most "iberic" for phonetic are corsican and sardinian (tendancy to lenition, as in french and celtic languages) but the french dialects are the ones that go the farther on this way (gallo-romance + nasalisations of vowels) - a rough analyse of mine -
no offence -

 

[Boss]

julia,

I did not focus on "genes" because I (correctly) guess they're irrelevant in your federalism (also I know nothing about it!).

To repeat: That you have differences with the South I have not denied nor do I find surprising (you should hear what Southern Brits say about Northerner accents/dialects).

What I do find surprising is associating S. Italy more with the M. East than with the rest of Italy. And I still find the arguments offered wildly unpersuasive. You may not understand the dialects in the South but do you think a Southern Italian understands Arabic or Hebrew? what of their religion and customs? I would love to know what kind of customs S. Italians share with Middle Easterners (weddings are not it nor are birth rates something "cultural" as I explained above).

 

[oreo_cookie]

I don't think southern Italians are closer to the Middle East culturally than they are to northern Italy, but I do think northern Italy has a vibe more distinctly "European" and that in some ways, southern Italy is more in the Mediterranean sphere without being distinctly European while at the same time, not feeling Middle Eastern.

However you could say southern Italy has as little in common with Germany or the Netherlands as with Lebanon, for instance.

 

[Riccardo]

here's the famous genetic map, but culture is way more important than genetics
tuscans are inbetween northern and southern italians (likely an offspring of a northern and southern italian would cluster with us tuscans)

You have to apologize my ignorance, but does this mean that we are closer to the Slovaks than to the Spainards?

 

[Boss]

You have to apologize my ignorance, but does this mean that we are closer to the Slovaks than to the Spainards?

Click this where the map is much more visible. As you can see, it shows that some Italians are closer to the Slovaks whereas others are closer to the Swiss, the French, the Spaniards and the Portuguese. I think the IT sphere shows some kind of average or mean of the population.

To be honest, I, too, was puzzled to see the Slovaks there :grin:.

 

[Riccardo]

Click this where the map is much more visible. As you can see, it shows that some Italians are closer to the Slovaks whereas others are closer to the Swiss, the French, the Spaniards and the Portuguese. I think the IT sphere shows some kind of average or mean of the population.

To be honest, I, too, was puzzled to see the Slovaks there :grin:.

Thank you, Boss. This means that all these "it" are the various kind of Italians? Is there any way to find out where we - as single persons - are in the map?
P.d. Sorry for the probably stupid questions, but I don't know anything about it!

 

[Boss]

Thank you, Boss. This means that all these "it" are the various kind of Italians? Is there any way to find out where we - as single persons - are in the map?
P.d. Sorry for the probably stupid questions, but I don't know anything about it!

Lol I do not want to misinform you so I will dodge your question but I do think that these ITs are just different Italians. I'd expect that the Southern, Central and Northern bits in the picture being Southern, Central and Northern Italians respectively (who knows?!).

I don't think there's a way to find a single represantative Italian person but as I said, I think the average is that large IT sphere at the bottom. Still the Slovak part seems bizzare... (I also don't think the Greeks are closer to the Slovaks than the Cypriots - wtf)

 

[Riccardo]

Lol I do not want to misinform you so I will dodge your question but I do think that these ITs are just different Italians. I'd expect that the Southern, Central and Northern bits in the picture being Southern, Central and Northern Italians respectively (who knows?!).

I don't think there's a way to find a single represantative Italian person but as I said, I think the average is that large IT sphere at the bottom. Still the Slovak part seems bizzare... (I also don't think the Greeks are closer to the Slovaks than the Cypriots - wtf)

Ok got it! What about Scotts and Nederlanders so close?? Just the red hair?

 

[oreo_cookie]

Spaniards and Italians are only genetically close if you mean northern Italians.. southerners are a much more "Southern" population genetically than Spaniards. But I can't imagine Slovaks are close to any Italians at all!

 

[Riccardo]

Spaniards and Italians are only genetically close if you mean northern Italians.. southerners are a much more "Southern" population genetically than Spaniards. But I can't imagine Slovaks are close to any Italians at all!

Southern Italians are surely closer to the Greeks! While Northern Italians I think are closer to French people than to the Spainards! Anyhow I can't see all this difference beetween Southern Italians, Northern Italians, Southern French and Spainards! I can't distinguish them "naked eye".