J2b1-M205 introduced to Eupedia

Dalmatian Serbs are 6% J2b, Lika Serbs are around 15% J2b, Kordun Serbs are 2% J2b, Banija Serbs are 7-8% J2b, Slavonian Serbs are 2% J2b.

Lika is not whole Krajina.
In Lika before 1991 lived about 55 000 Serbs, in Dalmatia lived around 130 000 Serbs, in Banija over 80 000... Lika was region in Krajina with lowest number of Serbs.
Lika Serbs have higher J2b than other Krajina Serbs due to genetic drift. Lika Serbs also have higher R1a and lower I2a than other Krajina Serbs.

Originally in Lika(possible one or two records) etc Serbs are not mentioned in historical records, do you understand now?

Therefore we do not know whose origin is genetics of today's Serbians from Lika and Croatia.

For Slavonia there is a little more data that mentione Serbians but for Lika, Kordun, Dalmatia, Banija there are no data or a few records for smaller areas. It is interesting that even in these records are mentioned along Vlachs, where Vlachs disappeared?
 
@ Dema

They don't have higher E-V13.
Krajina Serbs have lower E-V13 than Serbian average, Serbs from Serbia and Montenegrins. Regions where Serbs have higher E-V13 than Serbian average are Montenegro, Shopluk (southeastern Serbia), Kosovo and Banat.
Dalmatian Serbs have 13% E-V13, Kordun Serbs have 9% E-V13, Lika Serbs have 11-12% E-V13. On the other hand Croatians on average have about 10% E-V13, and Bosniaks from Bosnia have 11.2% E-V13 on average [video]https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?253441-Bosnian-Muslim-Y-DNA-results-(273-sample)[/video]
Sandžakian Bosniaks have over 35% E-V13.

Krajina Serbs are pred. Slavic genetically.

K15 Mixed Mode of Dalmatian Serb whose results I posted up:
1 58.7% Polish + 41.3% Italian_Abruzzo @ 1.86
2 50.9% Belarrusian + 49.1% Tuscan @ 2.01
3 54.3% Russian_Smolensk + 45.7% Tuscan 2.11

K13 Mixed Mode of Serb from Lika:
1 93.4% Moldavian + 6.6% Sardinian @ 3.52
2 60.5% Ukrainian + 39.5% Greek_Thessaly @ 3.89
3 67.8% Ukrainian + 32.2% Central_Greek @ 4.09

You have to use data that is relevant for now, and that is scientific work for Bosnian Serbs, Croats and Bosniaks.

http://s155239215.onlinehome.us/turkic/22Kangars/BesenyoGeneticsEn.htm

Bosnian Serbs according to scientific work have second haplotype in the population E1b 20%, which is logical because this population comes with Vlachs to Bosnia, J2 is 8%.
 
Kme, kme, kme... That is 10 years old = outdated.

What's up in Kakanj? What raja in Kakanj doing?

If you do not have relevant evidence to refute my claims you do not need to insult me instantly, this is not Serbian forum and please understand that.
 
If you do not have relevant evidence to refute my claims you do not need to insult me instantly, this is not Serbian forum and please understand that.

Serbian dna project is the best in region. There is few thousands tested and every day there is few new results.
 
Serbian dna project is the best in region. There is few thousands tested and every day there is few new results.

Unfortunately data from a private portal are not relevant evidence, we do not know how much is close relatives, cousins , people from the same villages and areas etc. in that data. We have respect some order, otherwise we enter into anarchy.

But you still do not hear what I'm saying, originally most of Serbs are not mention in Croatia or most of Croatia.
 
Unfortunately data from a private portal are not relevant evidence, we do not know how much is close relatives, cousins , people from the same villages and areas etc. in that data. We have respect some order, otherwise we enter into anarchy.

But you still do not hear what I'm saying, originally most of Serbs are not mention in Croatia or most of Croatia.

Stop using results of tested people on SDP if they are fake!
 
@ Dema

They don't have higher E-V13.
Krajina Serbs have lower E-V13 than Serbian average, Serbs from Serbia and Montenegrins. Regions where Serbs have higher E-V13 than Serbian average are Montenegro, Shopluk (southeastern Serbia), K



Look this is maps made out of Poreklo samples. You can see here E-v13 and J2b1. Its clear that its connected with South - Southeast Serbia (from Sopluk to Montenegro and Kosovo) and Montenegro while Both Ev13 and J2b1 are lacking in North Serbia. You have them only in these areas that are known for Vlach population, which are actually mostly slavicised Albanians from Montenegro and South Serbia region regarding these specific haplogroups.

There is no J2b1 and E-v13 in North Serbia because its not real Slavo-Serbs but rather serbicized Vlacho Albanians, remains of Roman Empire or more recently Albanians/Vlachs..

Bosnian and Croatian Serbs have obviously higher Ev13 and J2b1 in compare to Bosnjaks, Croats or Slovens, Ev13 up to 10x higher and J2-M205 up to 100x higher. Actually J2-M205 is probably 1000x higher then in Slovens. And stop posting rows of autosomal results since its not important in this discussion.
This is result mostly of assimilating Montenegrin and South - Southeast none Slavic population.

J2-M205 Serbs from Serbian project:

dNyCvbO.png



J2b2, Ev13 and R1b-BY611 from Serbian project:



aS73L0m.jpg
 
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Look this is maps made out of Poreklo samples. You can see here E-v13 and J2b1. Its clear that its connected with South - Southeast Serbia (from Sopluk to Montenegro and Kosovo) and Montenegro while Both Ev13 and J2b1 are lacking in North Serbia. You have them only in these areas that are known for Vlach population, which are actually mostly slavicised Albanians from Montenegro and South Serbia region regarding these specific haplogroups.

There is no J2b1 and E-v13 in North Serbia because its not real Slavo-Serbs but rather serbicized Vlacho Albanians, remains of Roman Empire or more recently Albanians/Vlachs..

Bosnian and Croatian Serbs have obviously higher Ev13 and J2b1 in compare to Bosnjaks, Croats or Slovens, Ev13 up to 10x higher and J2-M205 up to 100x higher. Actually J2-M205 is probably 1000x higher then in Slovens. And stop posting rows of autosomal results since its not important in this discussion.
This is result mostly of assimilating Montenegrin and South - Southeast none Slavic population.

J2-M205 Serbs from Serbian project:

dNyCvbO.png



J2b2, Ev13 and R1b-BY611 from Serbian project:



aS73L0m.jpg

High E-V13 in Zagreb area?

That maps are bullshit. The highest E-V13 hava Montenegrins, Shops and Kosovo Serbs.

E-V13 is 20% among Kosovo Serbs.
This is y dna of Kosovo Serbs.
oJVk4AN.png


E-V13 in Montenegro is 27%.

E-V13 among Krajina is 12-13% according to statistics from what I have seen-

I posted y dna of Dalmatian Serbs.

Again:

I2a-Din - 39%
I1 - 24%
E-V13 - 13%
R1a - 8%
J2b - 6%
N - 4%
J1 - 4%
R1b - 3%

Paternal lines of Dalmatian Serbs are:
- 47% Slavic (I2a-Din, R1a)
- 24% Germanic (I1)
- 22% "Vlach" (E-V13, J2b, R1b)
- 7% Unknown origin (J1, N)

Why you ignore autosomal results of Banija Serbs and Dalmatian Serb which I posted? Because they are too northern for to be Vlachs, is not it?
 
Y dna of Serbs from Kordun (publicly available results) [video]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kordun[/video]

I2a-Din (16)
Bajić (Katinovac/Topusko)
Bekić (Čremušnica/Vrgin Most)
Bižić (Dugi Dol/Krnjak)
Brujić (Baović/Vrginmost)
Brujić (Golinja/Vrginmost)
Đurić (Maljevac/Cetingrad)
Eror (Klokoč/Vojnić)
Zobenica (Sadilovac/Rakovica)
Ivančević (Nova Kršlja/Rakovica)
Mamula (Slavsko Polje/Vrginmost)
Macut (Cerovac Vukmanićki/Karlovac)
Paravina (Sadilovac)
Pekeč (Cetingrad)
Pjevac(Jagrovac/Vojnić)
Radović (Gojkovac/Cetingrad)
Tesla (Ivanković Selo/Karlovac)

R1a (6)
Vučković (Cvijanović Brdo/Slunj)
Janjanin (Ostrožin/Vrginmost)
Marinković (Kozarac/Vrginmost)
Mrđenović (Živkovića Kosa/Vojnić)
Pajić (Široka Rijeka/Vojnić)
Radaković (Popović Brdo/Karlovac)

N (3)
Kličković (Trepča/Vrginmost)
Krivokuća (Gornja Trebinja)
Kukulj (Blatuša/Vrginmost)

G2a (3)
Vidović (Novo Selo/Perjasica)
Kozlica (Gdjkovac/Vojnić)
Maćešić (Budačka Rijeka/Vojnić)

E-V13 (2)
Vukobratović (Vrginmost)
Peurača (Gornji Budački/Krnjak)

I1 (2)
Višnjić (Maljevac/Cetingad)
Mazalica (Vojišnica/Vojnić)

R1b (2)
Bulat (Kirin/Vrginmost)
Vranješ (Katlovac)

J2b (1)
Novaković (Vojišnica/Vojnić)

Only 2 E-V13 and 1 J2b!
 
High E-V13 in Zagreb area?

That maps are bullshit. The highest E-V13 hava Montenegrins, Shops and Kosovo Serbs it?

Why are you posting Kosovo Serb results now, who even mentioned them? Do you have hallucinations or issues?

Stop spamming with meaningless rows of copy pasted statistics from some random pages.
Where i said there is high ev13 in zagreb? Why are you spamming this thread with none relevant things that i didn't even say?

There is no Ev13 in Zagreb and not high ev13 as you say. Do you have eyes? Do you need doctor?

These are samples from Serbian forum poreklo, why dont you map all Serbian ev13 and j2b1 from poreklo so we see what results you get.

J2b1 map was made by Petar Demic, i took it from Poreklo. If you dont agree with something you can write them complains.


Now ffs stop spam

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Eupedia Forum mobile app
 
Please, is there moderators, why is this guy spamming with none relevant copy pasted rows of statistics and none relevant rows of gedmatch calculator results, please wtf???

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Eupedia Forum mobile app
 
Stop spamming with meaningless rows of copy pasted statistics from some random pages.
Where i said there is high ev13 in zagreb? Why are you spamming this thread with none relevant things that i didn't even say?

There is no Ev13 in Zagreb and not high ev13 as you say. Do you have eyes?

These are samples from Serbian forum poreklo, why dont you map all Serbian ev13 and j2b1 from poreklo so we see what results you get.

J2b1 map was made by Petar Demic, i took it from Poreklo. If you dont agree with something you can write them complains.


Now ffs stop spam

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Eupedia Forum mobile app

Petar Demić! Is this a joke?
Petar Demić is J2b1 and he put non-real % of his haplogroup, because he has problem to belong to weird haplogroup. Tested J2b1 from same villages who have surnames and who are cousins...

I also know Serbs who are N-P189.2 supremists they carry this haplogroup, and I1 supremists who carry I1 and think they are Vikings.

Among results from 23andMe always is domination of I2a and R1a among Serbs from most regions including Krajina. Because there is no manipulations and planing tested people on 23andMe.
 
I am not so sure. I think TMRCA is about 2500-3000 ybp.

I have just one 12 marker match. That's all.


12 markers cant be classified as match, i thought that you have at least some 37 or 67 marker Ukraine or Poland matches on FTDNA, then we would know they fall in your branch. I will look for Ukraine M205 samples to see if they have enough markers revealed and maybe they share your unique markers.

According to Yfull matches, seems like all are 5600 years far away from you. You are like small brother clade to CTS1969 and Y45447, formed 5600 years ago and they dont share any SNP with you below PF7321.

There has been some changes on Yfull, we got some new samples and our TMRCA fall down from 6000 to 5600 years.
 
- According to Yfull matches, seems like all are 5600 years far away from you.

- Unfortunately my closest matches from this tree don't have Big Y (and YFull, of course).

0865b388915164b0400e5782475d065c.jpg
 
Petar Demić! Is this a joke?
Petar Demić is J2b1 and he put non-real % of his haplogroup, because he has problem to belong to weird haplogroup. Tested J2b1 from same villages who have surnames and who are cousins...

I also know Serbs who are N-P189.2 supremists they carry this haplogroup, and I1 supremists who carry I1 and think they are Vikings.

Among results from 23andMe always is domination of I2a and R1a among Serbs from most regions including Krajina. Because there is no manipulations and planing tested people on 23andMe.
Petar Demic is Dema himself or one of his cousins. Demic is the Slavic version of Dema lastname, and Dema apparently lives in Croatia and was born in Slovenia, so there you go.
 
12 markers cant be classified as match, i thought that you have at least some 37 or 67 marker Ukraine or Poland matches on FTDNA, then we would know they fall in your branch. I will look for Ukraine M205 samples to see if they have enough markers revealed and maybe they share your unique markers.

According to Yfull matches, seems like all are 5600 years far away from you. You are like small brother clade to CTS1969 and Y45447, formed 5600 years ago and they dont share any SNP with you below PF7321.

There has been some changes on Yfull, we got some new samples and our TMRCA fall down from 6000 to 5600 years.

Sure. I have 111 STR markers + Big Y-500 + YFull results for my account. And I'm waiting for:
1. Dante Labs interpretation by YFull.
2. Big Y-700 results.
3. Dante Labs LongRead.

But in the same time, I have only one 12 STR marker match. Easy.

Hope, now it's clear.

*** BTW. My sample is the nearest for London gladiator dDNA among modern samples.

And I am interesting for the family line. I.e. for genealogy. Haplogroup distributions don't interest me.
 
- According to Yfull matches, seems like all are 5600 years far away from you.

- Unfortunately my closest matches from this tree don't have Big Y (and YFull, of course).

0865b388915164b0400e5782475d065c.jpg


Sure. I have 111 STR markers + Big Y-500 + YFull results for my account. And I'm waiting for:
1. Dante Labs interpretation by YFull.
2. Big Y-700 results.
3. Dante Labs LongRead.

But in the same time, I have only one 12 STR marker match. Easy.

Hope, now it's clear.

*** BTW. My sample is the nearest for London gladiator dDNA among modern samples.

And I am interesting for the family line. I.e. for genealogy. Haplogroup distributions don't interest me.




Yes i understood you perfectly! Looks like you have no close relatives. I have looked at situation few days ago but your case is familiar to me long ago.
I can guarantee you with over 99 % certainty that none of these people you match closer then M205 or PF7321 SNP (TMRCA and distance 5600 years according to Yfull at the moment)

These 12 marker matches you are getting are just random coincidence (convergence).

You have some very untypical STRs mutations for entire M205, your DYS388 value 13 is very unique for most of M205 samples where modal is 15. Some samples even have 16. But your value 13 there for sure signals distant separation. I think DYS388 13 is good start to look for haplotypes similar to yours and that could fall more closely into your branch.

N50045 from Sicily has Modal value 15 on DYS388. It is unlikely and also by other significant differences that you and him fall into a same subclade.
248827 American, same story like with Sicilian he has modal value DYS388 15 and also by other significant differences it is unlikely you two share any SNP under PF7321.
E9599 Milutin, he 100 % falls into my cluster J2-M205>CTS1969>Y22059*
167100 Sicilian, he has close Greek match with bigY and is for sure not falling into your cluster.
M6803 , Oman sample, he did bigY and is not falling into your clade.
274325 , Thomas Pople, England, he is CTS1969>YP13, he did bigY
207673, Jacques Blais, France, i remember when he did bigY, he is 100 % CTS1969>PH4306* It would be very good if he uploads to Yfull


Anyways as i stated i will look into public researches to see and try to find Ukraine M205 samples and perhaps they share your unique markers where DYS388 13 is very important. But also few other mutations.

I am aware you share SNP with gladiator ancient sample, you can read more about it here, your sample is mentioned here:
https://j2-m172.info/2016/01/exogen...f-26-is-j2b1-m205-and-likely-middle-eastener/

Chris Rоttensteiner who written this article is main J2 administrator and probably most knowledgeable person about J2-M205. His work and research is very appreciated!
 
My most distant ancestor for this line was born in Kingdom of Poland about 1700.
In 1792 it's became a part of Russian Empire (USSR from 1917-1922).
From 1991 it's Ukraine.

My only match is from modern day Poland. He has 37 markers.
So, I don't think that it is just gomoplasy.
I am sure this is my really closest match.
 
My most distant ancestor for this line was born in Kingdom of Poland about 1700.
In 1792 it's became a part of Russian Empire (USSR from 1917-1922).
From 1991 it's Ukraine.

My only match is from modern day Poland. He has 37 markers.
So, I don't think that it is just gomoplasy.
I am sure this is my really closest match.


Where you found him, i dont see him. What is difference on 37 markers, what is his DYS388
 

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