Where does the Albanian language come from? [VIDEO]

[enter_tain]

Why do these EV-13 dorks keep crying? We have 7 samples from EBA/IA, and Illyrians are ~MBA.

We have like 4 Illyrian samples here. EV-13 was like 10-15% of the population back then. Which btw, plenty of places in modern Albania that are that low in EV-13.

The high EV-13 in Kosova is a recent founder from Berishas & co migrating there. Keep crying though.

 

[mount123]

Clutching at straws, the ship is sinking and they are holding on to it, to the bitter end.

It's pure comedy actually.

 

[enter_tain]

Clutching at straws, the ship is sinking and they are holding on to it, to the bitter end.

Clutching at straws?? The modern Albanians show 0 EV-13. Are Albanians not Albanians?

This is just showing what Rrenjet said. High EV-13 happened in the last 200-300 years.

 

[enter_tain]

It's pure comedy actually.

Idiot, modern Albanians there show 0 EV-13. This just points to a recent founder effect during late Ottoman times.

 

[enter_tain]

Where is this "High EV-13" population in Medieval times? We have Medieval Albanians. These samples show 0 EV-13 whatsoever.

These people don't realize high EV-13 is just a random drift that happened recently. Imagine J2a or something recently expanding.

 

[Oroku Saki]

You are the fking troll responsible for spreading anti-Albanian comments and promoting genocide. Why aren't you IP-blocked? You should be blacklisted from all internet platforms. You are the embodiment of a horrible person.

You are the the troll lying about your own haplogroup and trying your best to portray V13 as some "docile farmers". Now, what would some Albanian highlanders of 500 years ago think of somebody trying to tell them that their ancestors were weak, and on top of that blatantly lying, and misinterpreting facts to fit with this narrative.

As far as I know Albanian culture embraces strength and warrior traits and frowns upon those who lie, like you and Bruzmi do. Albanian culture does this much more than other Balkan cultures, bar say Montenegro.

Genocide? Of whom please? I am more multicultural than all of this forum combined. I do however like "warrior" peoples, wherever from. And I did bother to learn some Albanian, 90 % in 2016, long before my presence here.. I remember back then I used to listen to some Lahuta songs of maybe your own tribesmen.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

Clutching at straws?? The modern Albanians show 0 EV-13. Are Albanians not Albanians?

This is just showing what Rrenjet said. High EV-13 happened in the last 200-300 years.

Having a stroke?

You think the Arberesh and Arvanites also experienced a E-V13 cuckoldry event in the last 200-300 years? That is some weird luck.

 

[Riverman]

Romania is a big country. Modern day Wallachia and Moldavia as origin points are very unlikely. But Transylvania is something else.

These Pannonian E samples are from areas near the Romanian border. This used to be Hungary 100-1000 years ago, so one might say "Eastern Hungarian" areas as well for that region..

Psenicevo which is full of V13 together with Babadag cousin culture both descend of Insula Banului (this is probably the most important thing for Balkan V13) group near the Iron Gates, this is where Gava people merged with some Incrusted Pottery locals.

NE Hungary has LBA E-L539 level sample with lots of Steppe, according to diagram 47 % Yamnaya, even EBA E-L539 sample had 39 %, so it seems in Southern expansion V13 mixed with some very Southern group with as this study suggests with some extra CHG ancestry (which is what that old EIA Bulgaria sample shows) giving them a profile that is more Aegean like. I think the explanation for this are some extremely Southern LBA and EBA samples, both J2a also from NE Hungary. Apparently one of dominant Transylvanian cultures Schneckenberg (which I used to connect to V13 long ago) was of Anatolian origin, and its cousin culture from Bulgaria in this study also has J2a.

And also after the spread of Psenicevo and Babadag, another younger IA culture appeared Basarabi, which spread also Westwards, this Croatian sample is most likely result of those Thraco-Cimmerian movements as we saw already V13 in Vekerzug context.

I was surprised too with E-BY14160 in LIA Bulgaria. Parent clade Y37092 is mostly Western Balkans today. There is only one Macedonian E-BY14150 sample.

Scythian LIA sample and that group whole from Moldavia also is from an area and with some material of an IA group clearly descended from the South, and prior to that from the Insula Banului areas.

We do have one female Babadag culture find MJ12 (and that's because I bothered to look at that site, most call it just Thraco-Cimmerian), it also shows plenty of autosomal affinity with what looks to be the dominant IA V13 autosomal profile.

This map says is all, how closely connected G?va, Babadag, Psenichevo and Basarabi were and how they intermixed - this map is especially for Moldova:

More about it in this post:

https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threa...an-case/page12?p=638013&viewfull=1#post638013

Nyirseg -> Eastern Otomani -> Suciu de Sus/Berkesz-Demecser -> Lapus-G?va -> generalised Channelled/Fluted Ware expansion -> Psenichevo-Babadag and Bosut-Basarabi. That's the main path for E-V13, and its clearly Daco-Thracian. The current samples are from a core Thracian cultural formation.
I also think that the Eastern Vekerzug cremating people and later Northern Dacians were strong, but not totally dominated, E-V13. The problem is just that they cremated, so we won't get a lot of ancient samples from there, not that easily.

 

[Riverman]

Having a stroke?

You think the Arberesh and Arvanites also experienced a E-V13 cuckoldry event in the last 200-300 years? That is some weird luck.

Haplogroup branches which are thousands of years old and show high diversity being spread by recent founder effects - not possible. The diversity in Albanians is shallow, but not THAT shallow. E-V13 in core/Proto-Albanian dates back at least to the Slavic migration period. What was before have to be seen, but I would assume an Iron Age presence of E-V13 in or close to Albania, after the Channelled Ware expansion. Actually, even Bosut-Basarabi came close, if talking about those. Problem again: Cremation prevailed among the more Channelled Ware influenced groups.

 

[enter_tain]

Having a stroke?

You think the Arberesh and Arvanites also experienced a E-V13 cuckoldry event in the last 200-300 years? That is some weird luck.

Yeah, I'm having a stroke cause your points are completely idiotic. Where is this "EV-13 Proto-Albanian" incursion in Medieval times??? Please show us. You have 0 samples.

You're demanding EV-13 in ancient samples when you don't have them in modern Albanians. I have always said EV-13 was largely tied to Berisha & cos in the last 200-300 years. This paper points to that more than anything.

 

[ihype02]

The sample size is big enough there is no excuse Ancient Illyrians were overwhelmingly J2b with little to no E-V13.

 

[enter_tain]

Serbia and Romania 0 EV13. Hahahahahah.

Ancient Croatia/Illyria had 1.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

Haplogroup branches which are thousands of years old and show high diversity being spread by recent founder effects - not possible. The diversity in Albanians is shallow, but not THAT shallow. E-V13 in core/Proto-Albanian dates back at least to the Slavic migration period. What was before have to be seen, but I would assume an Iron Age presence of E-V13 in or close to Albania, after the Channelled Ware expansion. Actually, even Bosut-Basarabi came close, if talking about those. Problem again: Cremation prevailed among the more Channelled Ware influenced groups.

It is the most consistent haplogroup in Albanians, it's high pretty much everywhere. It is lowest in populations that have a large non-Albanian ancestry like Korca. The desperation in these "people"(if we can call them that) is absurd, with endless mutating explanations.

Mentally they are un-European.

 

[enter_tain]

I love how just a few days ago, I was talking about some of these trolls sweeping R1b under the rug.

Guess what? R1b is the most frequent Y-DNA in this study. Leaving Neolithic Balkans out:
Albania Antiquity: 4 R, 4 J
Albania Medieval: 3 R, 2 J, 1 I, 1 T

It is the most consistent haplogroup in Albanians, it's high pretty much everywhere. It is lowest in populations that have a large non-Albanian ancestry like Korca. The desperation in these "people"(if we can call them that) is absurd, with endless mutating explanations.

Mentally they are un-European.

You're disgusting. I'm from another region that's mostly R1b/J. Those are the 2 most common haplogroups.

 

[Riverman]

The sample size is big enough there is no excuse Ancient Illyrians were overwhelmingly J2b with little to no E-V13.

The argument that Bosnia being not sampled yet is also kind of last straw, because if we have Illyrians sampled on both ends, Slovenia-Southern Austria (J-L283, R-L51) and Albania (J-L283, R-L51) and we know the same applies to Bronze Age Serbia (J-L283, R-L51), the very idea that a haplogroup as big as E-V13 by that time could have been hidden in some valley of Bosnia without contributing to the bulk and the fringes of the Illyrians is kind of ridiculous.

Serbia and Romania 0 EV13. Hahahahahah.

Ancient Croatia/Illyria had 1.

These are all samples beyond the Danube and beyond the Carpathians for the Bronze Age, or even older. Nothing from inside of the Carpathians, which is where Nyirseg/Suciu de Sus/G?va/Channelled Ware was coming from. And of course, nothing from the cremating cultures, because they can't be sampled. If anything, this just proves the more Northern origin of E-V13, because both Mokrin, Monteoru and EBA Bulgaria didn't have it. Encrusted Pottery is out too, so is much of Serbia in the Bronze Age, as we know from the leak.

This means E-V13 was indeed North of the Danube, likely in the Eastern part of the Tisza basin at home.

The samples from Romania are oftentimes just Yamnaya anyway. Really nokthing local from the Eastern Carpathian basin in this paper. But don't worry, the Pannonian paper has some, and there was E-V13. And every E-V13 sample from this area is worth a dozen, because the main groups all cremated.

 

[Riverman]

I love how just a few days ago, I was talking about some of these trolls sweeping R1b under the rug.

Guess what? R1b is the most frequent Y-DNA in this study. Leaving Neolithic Balkans out:
Albania Antiquity: 4 R, 4 J
Albania Medieval: 3 R, 2 J, 1 I, 1 T



You're disgusting. I'm from another region that's mostly R1b/J. Those are the 2 most common haplogroups.

I think the Italo-Celtic/Bell Beaker connection of Illyrian being largely proven indeed. Cetina is likely the source culture for Proto-Illyrians, but it was a Bell Beaker peripheral culture! And it shows autosomally and now in the uniparentals as well. J-L283 became the dominant part and through founder effects dominated much of the Illyrian world. But the origin of the Proto-Illyrian culture likely goes back to Bell Beaker and Tumulus culture contacts. R-L51 was really stronger than even I thought down to Albania. Its quite impressive.

 

[enter_tain]

The only place with >1 sample of EV-13 is Kapitan-whatever in Bulgaria. This seems to be in Eastern Bulgaria too close to Greece/Turkey. It could just be that they're all related since they're from the same spot. But I wouldn't be surprised if a number of these were spread with Roman Imperial admixture. I wouldn't say all because Croatia/Macedonia had 1 each early on, so clearly this was pan-Balkan, just small in admixture.

But even in Greeks EV-13 was non-existent until recently. We're talking Medieval/Ottoman times here. It clearly experienced a founder effect, the highest of which was northeastern Albanian parts. That other study showed the same thing.

 

[Riverman]

The only place with >1 sample of EV-13 is Kapitan-whatever in Bulgaria. This seems to be in Eastern Bulgaria too close to Greece/Turkey. It could just be that they're all related since they're from the same spot. But I wouldn't be surprised if a number of these were spread with Roman Imperial admixture. I wouldn't say all because Croatia/Macedonia had 1 each early on, so clearly this was pan-Balkan, just small in admixture.

But even in Greeks EV-13 was non-existent until recently. We're talking Medieval/Ottoman times here. It clearly experienced a founder effect, the highest of which was northeastern Albanian parts. That other study showed the same thing.

I know a bit about the diversity in Bulgarians and Greeks, no way that's recent. Its very old with the exception of the clearly Albanian related lineages, which are not the majority, however, but only a minority.

 

[mount123]

I think the Italo-Celtic/Bell Beaker connection of Illyrian being largely proven indeed. Cetina is likely the source culture for Proto-Illyrians, but it was a Bell Beaker peripheral culture! And it shows autosomally and now in the uniparentals as well. J-L283 became the dominant part and through founder effects dominated much of the Illyrian world. But the origin of the Proto-Illyrian culture likely goes back to Bell Beaker and Tumulus culture contacts. R-L51 was really stronger than even I thought down to Albania. Its quite impressive.

Basing this on Bezdanjaca and co. as in MLBA-LBA TC sites? Not a convincing argument. Also, just as I have guessed before, seeing TC related lineages all over Western and Central South East Europe is not really surprising. I knew this once I heard about TC site samples being published in this paper. J2b-L283 is not a TC attested lineage.

J2b-L283 has been too diverse in the Bronze Age already for such a scenario. The Illyrian core is what it is: J2b-L283 dominant. I see absolutely no correlation just pan-Balkanic influences and dispersals of TC Celtic lineages.

 

[enter_tain]

Basing this on Bezdanjaca and co. as in MLBA-LBA TC sites? Not a convincing argument. Also, just as I have guessed before, seeing TC related lineages all over Western and Central South East Europe is not really surprising. I knew this once I heard about TC site samples being published in this paper. J2b-L283 is not a TC attested lineage.

J2b-L283 has been too diverse in the Bronze Age already for such a scenario. The Illyrian core is what it is: J2b-L283 dominant. I see absolutely no correlation just pan-Balkanic influences and dispersals of TC Celtic lineages.

Lol, another troll trying to wipe R1b under the rug. R1b was the most common Y-DNA in these studies

R1b/J2b were the pillars of both Illyrians/Albanians.