Thread: E-V13 Frequency Maps and Data

PaleoRevenge said:
No kid, you're chasing your tail. Why is Berisha not R1a, N1c, Q1e, etc....? Why it happened to be a E-V13 and not something else?
Because they were Albanian.
Click to expand...

He is somewhat obsessed with Berisha tribe, but before the Ottoman Empire this clan/family was far more powerful than after, its only the Berisha clan who had balls to fight Mahmud Pashe Begolli and eventually kill him at a heavy cost, the beylerbeyler of Balkans (i read from people that he might have been himself a Berish, or Bardh). It's lesser known related Sopi clan (they thought they were related with Thaqi and Bytyqi which resulted not truth), who became a major line in Nish, Toplic and Vranje had as much as boom as Berisha if not greater than. This particular clan has traditions of greatly prospering from Ottoman militantism not the Berishas who suffered and were forced to migrate/split into mainly highlands.

And no, the Berisha doesn't constitute the majority of E-V13 in Kosove, both Berisha-Sop consitute a good deal, but E-V13 L241, E-V13 FGC11450 has diversity as well and presence.

As for J2b2-L283 in Kosove, it's overhelmly a recent founder effect from Krasniqi and Gashi tribe. Though Hoti, Kastrati and Korbi have a good deal, but nowhere near the amount of Krasniqi and Gashi.
 
Hawk said:
And no, the Berisha doesn't constitute the majority of E-V13 in Kosove, both Berisha-Sop consitute a good deal, but E-V13 L241, E-V13 FGC11450 has diversity as well and presence.

As for J2b2-L283 in Kosove, it's overhelmly a recent founder effect from Krasniqi and Gashi tribe. Though Hoti, Kastrati and Korbi have a good deal, but nowhere near the amount of Krasniqi and Gashi.
Click to expand...
Great to see someone with actual knowledge of Albanian tribes (also not blending out the Hoti, Kastrati and Korbi). Albeit, I would make a clear difference in the Gashi since a great part of them in Kosovo are Bardhaj and Shipshan and according to genetic testing mostly E1b-V13. It is rather the Gasht e Gurit and even here only the Luzha/Botusha that are J2b-L283. They are evenly split between Albanians from Kosovo and Albania.

Should be interesting how E1b-V13>L241+ and >FGC11450+ will be distributed during IA.
 
mount123 said:
Great to see someone with actual knowledge of Albanian tribes (also not blending out the Hoti, Kastrati and Korbi). Albeit, I would make a clear difference in the Gashi since a great part of them in Kosovo are Bardhaj and Shipshan and according to genetic testing mostly E1b-V13. It is rather the Gasht e Gurit and even here only the Luzha/Botusha that are J2b-L283. They are evenly split between Albanians from Kosovo and Albania.

Should be interesting how E1b-V13>L241+ and >FGC11450+ will be distributed during IA.
Click to expand...

My point was that while Berisha-Sopi indeed constitutes a good number, it's ratio is comparable to J2b2-L283 Gash/Krasniq. There are other E-V13 and J2b2-L283 sources respectively.

And yes, unlike Krasniqi the Gash seems to be a bit diverse, but the one in Kosove are mostly J2b2-L283. I didn't saw many Bardhaj, but it looks in Deqan/Dukagjin area the Bardhi/Shipshan might be present among Gash, but in Drenic a lot of them are J2b2-L283 and other areas.
 
Hawk said:
He is somewhat obsessed with Berisha tribe, but before the Ottoman Empire this clan/family was far more powerful than after, its only the Berisha clan who had balls to fight Mahmud Pashe Begolli and eventually kill him at a heavy cost, the beylerbeyler of Balkans (i read from people that he might have been himself a Berish, or Bardh). It's lesser known related Sopi clan (they thought they were related with Thaqi and Bytyqi which resulted not truth), who became a major line in Nish, Toplic and Vranje had as much as boom as Berisha if not greater than. This particular clan has traditions of greatly prospering from Ottoman militantism not the Berishas who suffered and were forced to migrate/split into mainly highlands.

And no, the Berisha doesn't constitute the majority of E-V13 in Kosove, both Berisha-Sop consitute a good deal, but E-V13 L241, E-V13 FGC11450 has diversity as well and presence.

As for J2b2-L283 in Kosove, it's overhelmly a recent founder effect from Krasniqi and Gashi tribe. Though Hoti, Kastrati and Korbi have a good deal, but nowhere near the amount of Krasniqi and Gashi.
Click to expand...

I know Hawk, J2b benefited as well, it's a mute argument. He just likes to pick and chose while ignoring the bigger picture.
 
Hawk said:
My point was that while Berisha-Sopi indeed constitutes a good number, it's ratio is comparable to J2b2-L283 Gash/Krasniq. There are other E-V13 and J2b2-L283 sources respectively.

And yes, unlike Krasniqi the Gash seems to be a bit diverse, but the one in Kosove are mostly J2b2-L283. I didn't saw many Bardhaj, but it looks in Deqan/Dukagjin area the Bardhi/Shipshan might be present among Gash, but in Drenic a lot of them are J2b2-L283 and other areas.
Click to expand...
Well, I get your point and certainly agree since that is what the data suggests.

In regards to Gashi they indeed are diverse and I think with such a group more sampling is needed. I know quite a few Muhaxherë descendants here and a good part claims to be Bardhaj and results as this for instance:

DedincaGash-BardhëKurshumliToplicëSerbiE1b-V13>Z5018>L241>PH2180
could hint at a higher presence of PH2180 in KS. Klina and the surroundings should also yield more PH2180.
 
mount123 said:
Well, I get your point and certainly agree since that is what the data suggests.

In regards to Gashi they indeed are diverse and I think with such a group more sampling is needed. I know quite a few Muhaxherë descendants here and a good part claims to be Bardhaj and results as this for instance:

DedincaGash-BardhëKurshumliToplicëSerbiE1b-V13>Z5018>L241>PH2180
could hint at a higher presence of PH2180 in KS. Klina and the surroundings should also yield more PH2180.
Click to expand...

I think i have read from some Serb records that in Nish, Toplic, Vranje they had the most trouble with Gash and Sop over there, they considered these two tribes as most anti-Serb. But, didn't know the Gash-Bardhaj skipped Kosove and went to Nish, Toplic and surroundings. That's new to me. I thought the Gash in Nish and surroundings they should be same as Luzha/Botusha.
 
Riverman said:
Interesting subclade:
https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-BY14160/
Its more diverse and widespread on FTDNA, a position in an already more South Eastern (there are a couple) or unknown subclade would make sense if there would be a better coverage
Click to expand...
i gave today theytree site link to the bam file of
I14465 Slovakia 650-500bc e-v13
i see they uploaded it to there ytree (y)
https://www.theytree.com/sample/5a5ce08d845bb57a5e5a8601ef15cb4c.html

P.s
By the way 2 of the e-v13 himerans 480 bc were also uploaded by them after i gave them link to there bam:

https://www.theytree.com/sample/341cb62feb8b14c7961efac20d9b4593.html

https://www.theytree.com/sample/8426659476b1ec979c9b43c5df15d5cc.html
 
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ok y tree uploaded this dude after i gave him his link bam file (y)

BAS025 La Bastida Southeast spain bronze age 2000-1750 bc - E-L618> CTS10912
( sitting on branch parallel to e-v13):cool-v:

https://www.theytree.com/sample/497adff4864d10d7c29bd70bd2a75ef8.html

https://www.theytree.com/tree/E-CTS10912

The site:
https://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Bastida_de_Totana


p.s
now fox i am looking for the chalcolithic e-m78 individual from ukraine
if i will find it i will ask them to upload him
he might not be e-v13 too early but still he is important could be e-L618 if the quality of his sample
is good enough
 
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kingjohn said:
ok y tree uploaded this dude after i gave him his link bam file (y)

BAS025 La Bastida Southeast spain bronze age 2000-1750 bc - E-L618> CTS10912
( sitting on branch parallel to e-v13):cool-v:

https://www.theytree.com/sample/497adff4864d10d7c29bd70bd2a75ef8.html

https://www.theytree.com/tree/E-CTS10912

The site:
https://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Bastida_de_Totana


p.s
now fox i am looking for the chalcolithic e-m78 individual from ukraine
if i will find it i will ask them to upload him
he might not be e-v13 too early but still he is important could be e-L618 if the quality of his sample
is good enough
Click to expand...

The Lengyel and Tripolye-Cucuteni samples are definitely the most interesting because they might have been the source from which E-V13 survived into the Bronze Age.
 
Riverman said:
The Lengyel and Tripolye-Cucuteni samples are definitely the most interesting because they might have been the source from which E-V13 survived into the Bronze Age.
Click to expand...

There you go;)
the ukranian tripillya from verteba cave
I3151 only reach e-m78 level
https://www.theytree.com/sample/e78cd0d655c4e1dc09dbea205f163cca.html
If he was in better coverage could end in E-L618
Still cool:cool-v:

The lengyel late neolithic
I1900
Is e-L618
https://www.theytree.com/sample/4f93f47888a568e2dc41abb37eea4224.html

P.s
I didn't found sopot individual bam file
 
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Its about time for some dna papers
With all due respect for theytree site
the name of this thread is:
e-v13 frequency map
So here we go
New research on szekely
Found 6.52% 6/92 e-m78
180109101603Sz__kely_counties_towns.PNG

Source:
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.11.07.515481v1?rss=1


P.s
All the 6 e-m78 cases are snp confirmed
And the haplotypes
Were predicted in the nevgen predictor used
In the paper are under e-v13 branch
 
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kingjohn said:
Its about time for some dna papers
With all due respect for theytree site
the name of this thread is:
e-v13 frequency map
So here we go
New research on szekely
Found 6.52% 6/92 e-m78
Source:
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.11.07.515481v1?rss=1
P.s
All the 6 e-m78 cases are snp confirmed
And the haplotypes
Were predicted in the nevgen predictor used
In the paper are under e-v13 branch
Click to expand...

I saw that as well. They also quoted other results in the paper:

The samples are from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odorhei_County

There paper quotes other studies done on Eastern Hungarians in the Tisza zone, the hotspot for old Thracian and E-V13 finds in the past, from Bodrogk?z, as well as Szekely from close by to the current samples (Sz?kelyudvarhely) and another site, Cs?kszereda (= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miercurea_Ciuc)

Figure-6.jpg

Figure 6 from page 17:
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.11.07.515481v1.full.pdf

The conqueror ancient DNA is obviously not from the papers which focuses more on the Eastern/South Eastern part of Hungary.
 
e-v13 was found in 6.6% in Rétköz (hungary)
and 14.58% in Váh valley ( slovakia)

according to this paper:
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fgene.2022.977517/full



fgene-13-977517-g001.jpg



fgene-13-977517-t001.jpg



 
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