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Thread: Modeling with aDNA

  1. #1
    Advisor Jovialis's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-05-17
    Posts
    7,860

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b1a1b2a2a
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H6a1b7

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: United States



    6 members found this post helpful.

    Modeling with aDNA



    This is a new version of the sample set I used in the Le Tene thread. I pruned out some samples that were outliers in the grouping; removed some groups, and added new ones.

    Code:
    Bolshoy_Ostrov:3473±87:BOO002:Lamnidis_2018,7.06,37.43,0,3.6,0,47.07,0.95,0,0,3.41,0,0.49
    Bolshoy_Ostrov:3473±87:BOO003:Lamnidis_2018,6.18,36.9,0,0,0,47.84,2.79,0.46,0,5.33,0,0.48
    Bolshoy_Ostrov:3473±87:BOO004:Lamnidis_2018,6.92,35.07,0,0,0,45.92,2.7,0,0,8.75,0,0.63
    Bolshoy_Ostrov:3473±87:BOO005:Lamnidis_2018,9.82,36.37,0,0,0,45.27,0.74,0,0,7.48,0,0.31
    Bolshoy_Ostrov:3473±87:BOO006:Lamnidis_2018,4.07,44.75,0,0,0,36.53,2.94,0,0,11.3,0,0.41
    Halberstadt_LBA:I0099_HAL36C:Haak_2015,11.71,1.33,0,0,32.66,48.06,0,0.48,0,0,5.2,0.55
    Yamnaya:RISE240:Allentoft_2015,26.6,1.31,0,0,7.93,64.16,0,0,0,0,0,0
    Yamnaya:RISE546:Allentoft_2015,22.07,0,0,0,0,70.45,0,0,0,0,7.49,0
    Yamnaya:RISE547:Allentoft_2015,26.54,0,0,0,10.09,63.38,0,0,0,0,0,0
    Yamnaya:RISE548:Allentoft_2015,27.76,0,0.93,0,3.91,65.86,0,0,0,0,1.35,0.19
    Yamnaya:RISE550:Allentoft_2015,23.64,0.86,0,0,9.61,64.98,0.74,0,0,0,0,0.17
    Yamnaya:RISE552:Allentoft_2015,30.94,1.6,0,0.01,2.06,61.11,0.39,0,0,0,3.1,0.78
    Yamnaya:I0231_SVP3:Haak_2015,28.48,2.19,0,0,1.43,59.76,2.73,0,0,0,4.53,0.89
    Yamnaya:I0357_SVP5:Haak_2015,31.45,0.86,0,0.77,4.05,54.56,2.22,0,0,0,6.09,0
    Yamnaya:I0370_SVP10:Haak_2015,24.66,6.11,0,0,0,59.29,0,0,0,0,9.32,0.62
    Yamnaya:I0429_SVP38:Haak_2015,26.2,3.3,0,0,2.84,64.62,2.03,0,0,0,0,1
    Yamnaya:I0438_SVP50:Haak_2015,23.9,4.62,0,0,0,60.95,1.32,0.31,0,0,8.64,0.26
    Yamnaya:I0441_SVP54:Haak_2015,33.48,1.54,0,0,0,56.53,8.46,0,0,0,0,0
    Yamnaya:I0443_SVP57:Haak_2015,28.03,2.76,0,0,5.5,59.49,0,0,0,0,3.22,1
    Yamnaya:I0444_SVP58:Haak_2015,30.94,0.57,0,0,3.61,59.43,0,0.11,0,0,2.51,2.83
    Yamnaya:I2105:Mathieson_2018,25.39,2.85,0,0,1.94,58.76,1.17,0,0,0,8.18,1.72
    Yamnaya:I3141:Mathieson_2018,24.66,4.21,0,0,2.47,64.51,1.21,0,0,0,2.93,0
    Catacomb:MJ-09:Jarve_2019,25.71,4.68,0,0.61,7.93,55.69,0,0,0,0,2.4,2.97
    Catacomb:MK3003:Wang_2019,29.97,2.83,0,0.37,3.73,54.49,1.01,0,0,0,5.99,1.62
    Catacomb:RK4001:Wang_2019,26.39,2.57,0,0,2.96,54.74,2.09,0,0,0,10.33,0.92
    Catacomb:RK4002:Wang_2019,29.4,1.88,0,0,2.25,59.81,0.86,0,0,0,5.54,0.24
    Catacomb:SA6003:Wang_2019,28.23,2.3,0,0,0.76,59.25,1.7,0,0,0,6.52,1.23
    Sintashta:RISE386:Allentoft_2015,15.34,0.38,0,0,24.56,55.73,0,0,0,0,3.31,0.68
    Sintashta:RISE392:Allentoft_2015,12.29,0,0.39,0,30.03,57.18,0,0,0,0,0,0.11
    Sintashta:RISE394:Allentoft_2015,16.36,0,0,0,26.29,56.64,0,0,0,0,0.71,0
    Sintashta:RISE395:Allentoft_2015,14.51,0,0,0,30.54,54.26,0,0,0,0,0.16,0.52
    Remedello:RISE487:Allentoft_2015,0,0,1.36,0,75.55,12.12,0,0,0.84,0,9.88,0.24
    Remedello:RISE489:Allentoft_2015,0,0,0,0,72.08,12.24,0,0,5.69,0,9.99,0
    Corded_Ware:RISE1:Allentoft_2015,9.53,2.23,0,0,20.52,67.27,0,0,0,0,0.46,0
    Corded_Ware:RISE434:Allentoft_2015,15.93,0,0,0,23.21,60.04,0,0,0,0,0,0.82
    Corded_Ware:RISE435:Allentoft_2015,1.49,0,0,0,21.13,68.03,0,0,0,0,9.36,0
    Corded_Ware:RISE446:Allentoft_2015,10.44,0,0,0,25.54,64.02,0,0,0,0,0,0
    Nordic_BA:RISE47:Allentoft_2015,4.99,0,0,0,37.63,55.78,0,0,0,0,1.6,0
    Nordic_BA:RISE175:Allentoft_2015,0,0,0,0,44.56,55.44,0,0,0,0,0,0
    Hallstatt:Czechia_I13781,6.20,0.00,0.00,0.14,38.66,39.72,0.85,0.00,2.30,0.67,10.26,1.20
    Hallstatt:Czechia_I14983,4.66,0.11,0.74,0.18,35.81,41.52,0.39,0,1.8,0,14.18,0.61
    Hallstatt:Czechia_I15071,5.13,0.00,2.36,0.00,38.23,39.29,0.00,0.00,0.45,0.00,14.03,0.52
    Hallstatt:Czechia_I16088,5.87,2.57,0.00,0.00,38.83,39.71,0.00,0.00,3.62,0.00,8.54,0.86
    Hallstatt:Hungary_I16327,6.72,0,0,0,38.03,40.63,0,0.07,4.2,1.47,7.85,1.02
    Hungary_1180BC:BR2:Gamba_2014,1.09,0,0.38,0,36.78,41.52,0,0,3.74,0,16.14,0.36
    C_Italian_ChL:R4:Antonio_2019,0,0,2.77,0.12,60.45,3.99,0,0,10.54,0.02,21.81,0.32
    C_Italian_ChL:R5:Antonio_2019,0,0,2.76,0,63.45,3.27,0,0,10.15,0,20.2,0.17
    C_Italian_ChL:R1014:Antonio_2019,0,0,2.67,0,64.87,0.54,0,0,0,0,31.92,0
    C_Italian_N:R2:Antonio_2019,0,0,3.61,0,54.5,0,0,0.17,12.44,0,29.12,0.16
    C_Italian_N:R3:Antonio_2019,0,0,4.22,0,52.75,0,0,0,11.28,0.2,31.18,0.38
    C_Italian_N:R8:Antonio_2019,0,0,2.42,0,53.24,0,0,0,14.2,0.44,29.46,0.24
    C_Italian_N:R9:Antonio_2019,0,0,2.58,0,50.8,0,0,0,13.79,0,32.49,0.34
    C_Italian_N:R10:Antonio_2019,0,0,3.35,0,53.37,0,0,0,13.76,0,29.52,0
    C_Italian_N:R16:Antonio_2019,0,0,3.41,0,57.73,1.14,0,0,9.12,0.21,28.3,0.09
    C_Italian_N:R17:Antonio_2019,0,0,4.12,0,50.89,3.18,0,0,13.16,0,28.66,0
    C_Italian_N:R18:Antonio_2019,0,0,3.72,0,51.41,0,0,0.09,10.24,0,34.54,0
    C_Italian_N:R19:Antonio_2019,0,0,4.33,0,55.74,0.85,0,0,9.83,0,29.26,0
    Minoan:Lasithi:I0070:Lazaridis_2017,0,0,0.62,0.55,37.53,0,0,0,15.52,0,45.7,0.09
    Minoan:Lasithi:I0071:Lazaridis_2017,1.16,0,2.96,0,37.9,0.23,0,0,13.01,0,44.59,0.15
    Minoan:Lasithi:I0073:Lazaridis_2017,0,0.05,2.92,0.4,36.38,0,0,0,13.48,0,46.7,0.07
    Minoan:Lasithi:I0074:Lazaridis_2017,0.58,0,4.33,0,39.44,0,0,0,12.45,0,43.19,0
    Minoan:Lasithi:I9005:Lazaridis_2017,1.52,0,5.68,0,37.33,0,0,0,16.14,0,39.25,0.08
    Minoan:Odigitria:I9129:Lazaridis_2017,0,0,4.55,0,44.82,0,0,0,13.21,0,37.43,0
    Minoan:Odigitria:I9130:Lazaridis_2017,1.38,0,0.19,0,41.77,0,0,0.28,17.61,0,38.77,0
    Minoan:Odigitria:I9131:Lazaridis_2017,5.16,0,0,0,36.32,0,0,0,19.19,0,39.01,0.33
    Minoan:Petras_EBA:Pta08:Clemente_2021,0,0,3.85,0.33,34.73,0.38,0.14,0.05,14.68,0.48,43.65,1.72
    Anatolian_BA:I2495:Lazaridis_2017,6.07,0,1.17,1.3,27.23,3.79,0,0,14.72,0,43.22,2.51
    Anatolian_BA:I2499:Lazaridis_2017,7.88,0.24,1.61,0,26.13,4.81,0,1.72,13.22,0.03,44.36,0
    Anatolian_BA:I2683:Lazaridis_2017,8.73,0.62,2.12,0.42,25.19,0.9,0,0,14.26,0,45.14,2.61
    Iberomaurusian:TAF009:Loosdrecht_2018,0,3.54,60.38,2.05,0,0,2.48,18.95,8.83,0,0,3.78
    Iberomaurusian:TAF010:Loosdrecht_2018,0,0.55,63.9,3.27,0,0.17,1.39,18.7,5.98,0,0,6.05
    Iberomaurusian:TAF011:Loosdrecht_2018,0,1.28,64.11,2.45,0,0.07,0.7,18.22,5.74,0.18,0,7.24
    Iberomaurusian:TAF012:Loosdrecht_2018,0,1.79,63.81,0.8,0.44,0,3.27,16.18,5.76,0.59,0,7.35
    Iberomaurusian:TAF013:Loosdrecht_2018,0,1.07,61.84,2.72,0,0.02,1.89,18.58,6.99,0,0,6.89
    Iberomaurusian:TAF014:Loosdrecht_2018,0,0.74,62.76,2.95,0,0,2.12,18.14,5.34,0,0,7.95
    Iberomaurusian:TAF015:Loosdrecht_2018,0,0,62.82,1.87,0,0.9,0,15.76,6.67,3.45,0,8.52

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    10-05-19
    Posts
    1,512

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I2-M223
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H2A3

    Ethnic group
    Italian-Sicily-South
    Country: United States



    Jovialis: Thanks again for all your work. My models using data you provided in post 1 above. Real Good fits again for me with all models (Ancestry, NATGENO, 23ME and combined Ancestry/23ME), similar to the Lene Thread and again Ancestry gives me the best model. One thing I notice is that my combined results are closer to Ancestry which I would think indicates Ancestry has more SNPS and the ones that are in 23/ME that are not tested in Ancestry do not pull my results away from the basic base line Model that Ancestry gives me. I wonder if this is just my results are other folks here whose ancestors are Southern Italian (you and Salento, for example) get similar results. I also wish it was possible to merge the NATGENO results as it does seem to pick up son SNPS (ancestry) that Ancestry does not (Corded Ware) although 23/ME also picks up some of that along with 2 smaller Anatolian BA and Nordic BA signals. Thanks again for all your work.



    Last edited by Palermo Trapani; 21-01-22 at 01:29. Reason: formatting

  3. #3
    Regular Member torzio's Avatar
    Join Date
    10-05-19
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    3,379

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 - Y79536
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a

    Ethnic group
    North East Italian
    Country: Australia



    Distance to: Torziok12b
    4.79431310 Hallstatt:Czechia_I15071
    5.80202202 Hungary_1180BC:BR2:Gamba_2014
    5.94974608 Hallstatt:Czechia_I14983
    6.72631460 Hallstatt:Czechia_I13781
    7.82748440 Hallstatt:Czechia_I16088
    8.58762761 Hallstatt:Hungary_I16327
    16.92584818 Halberstadt_LBA:I0099_HAL36C:Haak_2015
    21.75514919 C_Italian_N:R17:Antonio_2019
    24.55821465 Nordic_BA:RISE47:Allentoft_2015


    others are over 25.0
    Fathers mtdna ...... T2b17
    Grandfather paternal mtdna ... T1a1e
    Sons mtdna ...... K1a4p
    Mothers line ..... R1b-S8172
    Grandmother paternal side ... I1-CTS6397
    Wife paternal line ..... R1a-PF6155

    "Fear profits man, nothing"

  4. #4
    Regular Member torzio's Avatar
    Join Date
    10-05-19
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    3,379

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 - Y79536
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a

    Ethnic group
    North East Italian
    Country: Australia



    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post


    This is a new version of the sample set I used in the Le Tene thread. I pruned out some samples that were outliers in the grouping; removed some groups, and added new ones.

    Code:
    Bolshoy_Ostrov:3473±87:BOO002:Lamnidis_2018,7.06,37.43,0,3.6,0,47.07,0.95,0,0,3.41,0,0.49
    Bolshoy_Ostrov:3473±87:BOO003:Lamnidis_2018,6.18,36.9,0,0,0,47.84,2.79,0.46,0,5.33,0,0.48
    Bolshoy_Ostrov:3473±87:BOO004:Lamnidis_2018,6.92,35.07,0,0,0,45.92,2.7,0,0,8.75,0,0.63
    Bolshoy_Ostrov:3473±87:BOO005:Lamnidis_2018,9.82,36.37,0,0,0,45.27,0.74,0,0,7.48,0,0.31
    Bolshoy_Ostrov:3473±87:BOO006:Lamnidis_2018,4.07,44.75,0,0,0,36.53,2.94,0,0,11.3,0,0.41
    Halberstadt_LBA:I0099_HAL36C:Haak_2015,11.71,1.33,0,0,32.66,48.06,0,0.48,0,0,5.2,0.55
    Yamnaya:RISE240:Allentoft_2015,26.6,1.31,0,0,7.93,64.16,0,0,0,0,0,0
    Yamnaya:RISE546:Allentoft_2015,22.07,0,0,0,0,70.45,0,0,0,0,7.49,0
    Yamnaya:RISE547:Allentoft_2015,26.54,0,0,0,10.09,63.38,0,0,0,0,0,0
    Yamnaya:RISE548:Allentoft_2015,27.76,0,0.93,0,3.91,65.86,0,0,0,0,1.35,0.19
    Yamnaya:RISE550:Allentoft_2015,23.64,0.86,0,0,9.61,64.98,0.74,0,0,0,0,0.17
    Yamnaya:RISE552:Allentoft_2015,30.94,1.6,0,0.01,2.06,61.11,0.39,0,0,0,3.1,0.78
    Yamnaya:I0231_SVP3:Haak_2015,28.48,2.19,0,0,1.43,59.76,2.73,0,0,0,4.53,0.89
    Yamnaya:I0357_SVP5:Haak_2015,31.45,0.86,0,0.77,4.05,54.56,2.22,0,0,0,6.09,0
    Yamnaya:I0370_SVP10:Haak_2015,24.66,6.11,0,0,0,59.29,0,0,0,0,9.32,0.62
    Yamnaya:I0429_SVP38:Haak_2015,26.2,3.3,0,0,2.84,64.62,2.03,0,0,0,0,1
    Yamnaya:I0438_SVP50:Haak_2015,23.9,4.62,0,0,0,60.95,1.32,0.31,0,0,8.64,0.26
    Yamnaya:I0441_SVP54:Haak_2015,33.48,1.54,0,0,0,56.53,8.46,0,0,0,0,0
    Yamnaya:I0443_SVP57:Haak_2015,28.03,2.76,0,0,5.5,59.49,0,0,0,0,3.22,1
    Yamnaya:I0444_SVP58:Haak_2015,30.94,0.57,0,0,3.61,59.43,0,0.11,0,0,2.51,2.83
    Yamnaya:I2105:Mathieson_2018,25.39,2.85,0,0,1.94,58.76,1.17,0,0,0,8.18,1.72
    Yamnaya:I3141:Mathieson_2018,24.66,4.21,0,0,2.47,64.51,1.21,0,0,0,2.93,0
    Catacomb:MJ-09:Jarve_2019,25.71,4.68,0,0.61,7.93,55.69,0,0,0,0,2.4,2.97
    Catacomb:MK3003:Wang_2019,29.97,2.83,0,0.37,3.73,54.49,1.01,0,0,0,5.99,1.62
    Catacomb:RK4001:Wang_2019,26.39,2.57,0,0,2.96,54.74,2.09,0,0,0,10.33,0.92
    Catacomb:RK4002:Wang_2019,29.4,1.88,0,0,2.25,59.81,0.86,0,0,0,5.54,0.24
    Catacomb:SA6003:Wang_2019,28.23,2.3,0,0,0.76,59.25,1.7,0,0,0,6.52,1.23
    Sintashta:RISE386:Allentoft_2015,15.34,0.38,0,0,24.56,55.73,0,0,0,0,3.31,0.68
    Sintashta:RISE392:Allentoft_2015,12.29,0,0.39,0,30.03,57.18,0,0,0,0,0,0.11
    Sintashta:RISE394:Allentoft_2015,16.36,0,0,0,26.29,56.64,0,0,0,0,0.71,0
    Sintashta:RISE395:Allentoft_2015,14.51,0,0,0,30.54,54.26,0,0,0,0,0.16,0.52
    Remedello:RISE487:Allentoft_2015,0,0,1.36,0,75.55,12.12,0,0,0.84,0,9.88,0.24
    Remedello:RISE489:Allentoft_2015,0,0,0,0,72.08,12.24,0,0,5.69,0,9.99,0
    Corded_Ware:RISE1:Allentoft_2015,9.53,2.23,0,0,20.52,67.27,0,0,0,0,0.46,0
    Corded_Ware:RISE434:Allentoft_2015,15.93,0,0,0,23.21,60.04,0,0,0,0,0,0.82
    Corded_Ware:RISE435:Allentoft_2015,1.49,0,0,0,21.13,68.03,0,0,0,0,9.36,0
    Corded_Ware:RISE446:Allentoft_2015,10.44,0,0,0,25.54,64.02,0,0,0,0,0,0
    Nordic_BA:RISE47:Allentoft_2015,4.99,0,0,0,37.63,55.78,0,0,0,0,1.6,0
    Nordic_BA:RISE175:Allentoft_2015,0,0,0,0,44.56,55.44,0,0,0,0,0,0
    Hallstatt:Czechia_I13781,6.20,0.00,0.00,0.14,38.66,39.72,0.85,0.00,2.30,0.67,10.26,1.20
    Hallstatt:Czechia_I14983,4.66,0.11,0.74,0.18,35.81,41.52,0.39,0,1.8,0,14.18,0.61
    Hallstatt:Czechia_I15071,5.13,0.00,2.36,0.00,38.23,39.29,0.00,0.00,0.45,0.00,14.03,0.52
    Hallstatt:Czechia_I16088,5.87,2.57,0.00,0.00,38.83,39.71,0.00,0.00,3.62,0.00,8.54,0.86
    Hallstatt:Hungary_I16327,6.72,0,0,0,38.03,40.63,0,0.07,4.2,1.47,7.85,1.02
    Hungary_1180BC:BR2:Gamba_2014,1.09,0,0.38,0,36.78,41.52,0,0,3.74,0,16.14,0.36
    C_Italian_ChL:R4:Antonio_2019,0,0,2.77,0.12,60.45,3.99,0,0,10.54,0.02,21.81,0.32
    C_Italian_ChL:R5:Antonio_2019,0,0,2.76,0,63.45,3.27,0,0,10.15,0,20.2,0.17
    C_Italian_ChL:R1014:Antonio_2019,0,0,2.67,0,64.87,0.54,0,0,0,0,31.92,0
    C_Italian_N:R2:Antonio_2019,0,0,3.61,0,54.5,0,0,0.17,12.44,0,29.12,0.16
    C_Italian_N:R3:Antonio_2019,0,0,4.22,0,52.75,0,0,0,11.28,0.2,31.18,0.38
    C_Italian_N:R8:Antonio_2019,0,0,2.42,0,53.24,0,0,0,14.2,0.44,29.46,0.24
    C_Italian_N:R9:Antonio_2019,0,0,2.58,0,50.8,0,0,0,13.79,0,32.49,0.34
    C_Italian_N:R10:Antonio_2019,0,0,3.35,0,53.37,0,0,0,13.76,0,29.52,0
    C_Italian_N:R16:Antonio_2019,0,0,3.41,0,57.73,1.14,0,0,9.12,0.21,28.3,0.09
    C_Italian_N:R17:Antonio_2019,0,0,4.12,0,50.89,3.18,0,0,13.16,0,28.66,0
    C_Italian_N:R18:Antonio_2019,0,0,3.72,0,51.41,0,0,0.09,10.24,0,34.54,0
    C_Italian_N:R19:Antonio_2019,0,0,4.33,0,55.74,0.85,0,0,9.83,0,29.26,0
    Minoan:Lasithi:I0070:Lazaridis_2017,0,0,0.62,0.55,37.53,0,0,0,15.52,0,45.7,0.09
    Minoan:Lasithi:I0071:Lazaridis_2017,1.16,0,2.96,0,37.9,0.23,0,0,13.01,0,44.59,0.15
    Minoan:Lasithi:I0073:Lazaridis_2017,0,0.05,2.92,0.4,36.38,0,0,0,13.48,0,46.7,0.07
    Minoan:Lasithi:I0074:Lazaridis_2017,0.58,0,4.33,0,39.44,0,0,0,12.45,0,43.19,0
    Minoan:Lasithi:I9005:Lazaridis_2017,1.52,0,5.68,0,37.33,0,0,0,16.14,0,39.25,0.08
    Minoan:Odigitria:I9129:Lazaridis_2017,0,0,4.55,0,44.82,0,0,0,13.21,0,37.43,0
    Minoan:Odigitria:I9130:Lazaridis_2017,1.38,0,0.19,0,41.77,0,0,0.28,17.61,0,38.77,0
    Minoan:Odigitria:I9131:Lazaridis_2017,5.16,0,0,0,36.32,0,0,0,19.19,0,39.01,0.33
    Minoan:Petras_EBA:Pta08:Clemente_2021,0,0,3.85,0.33,34.73,0.38,0.14,0.05,14.68,0.48,43.65,1.72
    Anatolian_BA:I2495:Lazaridis_2017,6.07,0,1.17,1.3,27.23,3.79,0,0,14.72,0,43.22,2.51
    Anatolian_BA:I2499:Lazaridis_2017,7.88,0.24,1.61,0,26.13,4.81,0,1.72,13.22,0.03,44.36,0
    Anatolian_BA:I2683:Lazaridis_2017,8.73,0.62,2.12,0.42,25.19,0.9,0,0,14.26,0,45.14,2.61
    Iberomaurusian:TAF009:Loosdrecht_2018,0,3.54,60.38,2.05,0,0,2.48,18.95,8.83,0,0,3.78
    Iberomaurusian:TAF010:Loosdrecht_2018,0,0.55,63.9,3.27,0,0.17,1.39,18.7,5.98,0,0,6.05
    Iberomaurusian:TAF011:Loosdrecht_2018,0,1.28,64.11,2.45,0,0.07,0.7,18.22,5.74,0.18,0,7.24
    Iberomaurusian:TAF012:Loosdrecht_2018,0,1.79,63.81,0.8,0.44,0,3.27,16.18,5.76,0.59,0,7.35
    Iberomaurusian:TAF013:Loosdrecht_2018,0,1.07,61.84,2.72,0,0.02,1.89,18.58,6.99,0,0,6.89
    Iberomaurusian:TAF014:Loosdrecht_2018,0,0.74,62.76,2.95,0,0,2.12,18.14,5.34,0,0,7.95
    Iberomaurusian:TAF015:Loosdrecht_2018,0,0,62.82,1.87,0,0.9,0,15.76,6.67,3.45,0,8.52

    Halstatt high numbers

    Emilian
    Veneto
    Aosta
    German
    Austrian Tyrol
    French North

    Are these all continental celts or neighbours of ???

  5. #5
    Regular Member Malaparte's Avatar
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    My results (modern ancestry is 50% Calabria, 50% British Isles) -- I'm surprised the Minoan is so low

    Target: dominic
    Distance: 0.5139% / 0.51389491
    25.2 Hallstatt
    23.7 Anatolian_BA
    23.6 Yamnaya
    10.7 C_Italian_ChL
    7.6 C_Italian_N
    3.3 Remedello
    2.6 Iberomaurusian
    2.1 Sintashta
    1.2 Minoan

    My mother's results (modern ancestry 50% Irish, 50% Yorkshire)

    Target: mom
    Distance: 0.4195% / 0.41947977
    33.6 Nordic_BA
    19.3 Sintashta
    15.1 C_Italian_ChL
    13.9 Yamnaya
    10.0 Remedello
    8.1 Corded_Ware

  6. #6
    Regular Member Malaparte's Avatar
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    I'm struck by how high Palermo Trapani's Minoan component is (70%) and how low mine is (a mere 1.2%, even allowing that I'm only half Calabrese).

    Did the two "Greek" clines that Jovialis speaks of on the La Tena thread operate also in the Far South?

  7. #7
    Advisor Jovialis's Avatar
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    What I find interesting is that this modeling only works well for the samples in the chart. They are all under fitness of 4 if I recall. In the previous model, it worked well for Italians, Iberians, Balkans, Poland and Northwestern Europeans. But now with the inclusion of Bolshoy_Ostrov, It now brings in eastern and north eastern Europeans, as well as Uralic peoples.

    This modeling doesn't work well for any other population really, it is almost exclusively for people within Europe. Which I think is very fascinating.

  8. #8
    Advisor Jovialis's Avatar
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    @Torzio, Palermo, and Malaparte,


    Indeed, it shows a connection with Celtic peoples, as well as some Nordic as well.

    Eastern Europe looks mostly defined by a preference for Corded ware, though there are some bits in the west as well. In the west, Nordic and Celtic cultures show to take preference. As well as BR2, which is Bronze Age Hungarian.

    Minoans prevalent in the Balkans, and Italy, as well as some places as far as Bavaria to a small degree. Eastern Europe also gets some Minoan. Aneli et al. 2022 said they are at one end of the Mediterranean continuum. I think Anatolian_BA is more representative of Aegean, and eastern Mediterranean people in most cases.

    I am not sure how people with "mixed" ancestry, like English and Calabrian could come out in the calculator. It might be throwing it off in your case.

    I know these are the "Updated" samples, but Sicilian_D, and South_Italian_Sicilan_D do get similar proportions in the chart, in regards to Anatolian_BA admixture.

  9. #9
    Advisor Jovialis's Avatar
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    ASH068 once again is clearly an ancient Achaean-type ancestry. The model doesn't work well for the Canaanites.

    Some of the Sea Peoples were clearly this type of Ancestry. It is certain among the Philistines.


  10. #10
    Advisor Angela's Avatar
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    3 members found this post helpful.
    Without any Balkan samples or La Tene, the fits are terrible for me; I was getting 5 and 6 with the other calculator. I think it better tracked actual known migrations to northern Italy.
    Distance to: Angela
    21.05470256 C_Italian_N:R17:Antonio_2019
    24.12944881 Minoan:Odigitria:I9129:Lazaridis_2017
    24.21946738 C_Italian_N:R18:Antonio_2019
    24.24685753 C_Italian_N:R3:Antonio_2019
    24.28506949 C_Italian_N:R9:Antonio_2019
    24.53227874 Hallstatt:Czechia_I15071
    24.68399279 C_Italian_N:R19:Antonio_2019
    24.95429823 C_Italian_N:R10:Antonio_2019
    25.01595091 C_Italian_N:R8:Antonio_2019
    25.12523831 C_Italian_N:R2:Antonio_2019
    25.50123919 C_Italian_N:R16:Antonio_2019
    25.51030968 Hungary_1180BC:BR2:Gamba_2014
    25.82338862 Minoan:Lasithi:I9005:Lazaridis_2017
    25.93733602 Minoan:Odigitria:I9130:Lazaridis_2017
    26.23348242 C_Italian_ChL:R4:Antonio_2019
    26.47724306 Hallstatt:Czechia_I14983
    26.59358381 Minoan:Lasithi:I0074:Lazaridis_2017
    26.83175730 Hallstatt:Czechia_I13781
    26.97469740 Minoan:Odigitria:I9131:Lazaridis_2017
    27.44410319 Minoan:Lasithi:I0071:Lazaridis_2017
    27.86807492 Hallstatt:Czechia_I16088
    28.00880040 Minoan:Petras_EBA:Pta08:Clemente_2021
    28.02387018 Anatolian_BA:I2495:Lazaridis_2017
    28.32850861 Anatolian_BA:I2499:Lazaridis_2017
    29.00443587 Hallstatt:Hungary_I16327

    The admixture ones are better.

    Target: Angela
    Distance: 1.4769% / 1.47694267 | ADC: 0.25x RC
    47.0 Hallstatt
    34.7 C_Italian_N
    18.3 Anatolian_BA



    Target: Angela
    Distance: 0.1964% / 0.19642384
    31.1 Minoan
    18.9 C_Italian_ChL
    11.4 Yamnaya
    11.0 C_Italian_N
    9.2 Hallstatt
    6.3 Corded_Ware
    6.0 Hungary_1180BC
    3.5 Remedello
    2.5 Nordic_BA
    0.1 Sintashta

    Without the admixed steppe groups known to have come to my area, the Italian Neolithic shows up more.
    Distance to: Angela
    2.98364720 49.80% Hallstatt:Czechia_I13781 + 50.20% Minoan:Lasithi:I0074:Lazaridis_2017
    3.12522842 49.60% Hallstatt:Czechia_I15071 + 50.40% Minoan:Odigitria:I9129:Lazaridis_2017
    3.33328392 38.60% Halberstadt_LBA:I0099_HAL36C:Haak_2015 + 61.40% Minoan:Odigitria:I9129:Lazaridis_2017
    3.46070126 27.00% Yamnaya:RISE550:Allentoft_2015 + 73.00% C_Italian_N:R18:Antonio_2019
    3.47458172 47.60% Hallstatt:Czechia_I14983 + 52.40% Minoan:Odigitria:I9129:Lazaridis_2017
    3.51317041 33.40% Sintashta:RISE386:Allentoft_2015 + 66.60% C_Italian_N:R18:Antonio_2019
    3.51593672 52.00% Hallstatt:Czechia_I15071 + 48.00% Minoan:Lasithi:I0074:Lazaridis_2017
    3.74549961 50.60% Hallstatt:Czechia_I13781 + 49.40% Minoan:Lasithi:I0071:Lazaridis_2017
    3.74552712 48.80% Hallstatt:Czechia_I16088 + 51.20% Minoan:Lasithi:I0074:Lazaridis_2017
    3.74821125 25.40% Yamnaya:RISE546:Allentoft_2015 + 74.60% C_Italian_N:R18:Antonio_2019
    3.86578309 28.80% Corded_Ware:RISE1:Allentoft_2015 + 71.20% C_Italian_N:R18:Antonio_2019
    3.88028176 25.60% Yamnaya:RISE546:Allentoft_2015 + 74.40% C_Italian_N:R19:Antonio_2019
    3.90061778 31.00% Corded_Ware:RISE434:Allentoft_2015 + 69.00% C_Italian_N:R18:Antonio_2019
    3.92440301 47.80% Hallstatt:Hungary_I16327 + 52.20% Minoan:Lasithi:I0074:Lazaridis_2017
    3.94453004 47.20% Hallstatt:Czechia_I13781 + 52.80% Minoan:Odigitria:I9129:Lazaridis_2017
    3.94777494 33.00% Sintashta:RISE392:Allentoft_2015 + 67.00% Minoan:Odigitria:I9129:Lazaridis_2017
    3.95658241 33.80% Sintashta:RISE395:Allentoft_2015 + 66.20% Minoan:Odigitria:I9129:Lazaridis_2017
    3.98360588 25.20% Yamnaya:RISE546:Allentoft_2015 + 74.80% C_Italian_N:R3:Antonio_2019
    4.03861950 51.40% Hallstatt:Czechia_I15071 + 48.60% Minoan:Odigitria:I9130:Lazaridis_2017
    4.11138890 52.80% Hallstatt:Czechia_I15071 + 47.20% Minoan:Lasithi:I0071:Lazaridis_2017
    4.11344266 27.20% Yamnaya:RISE547:Allentoft_2015 + 72.80% C_Italian_N:R18:Antonio_2019
    4.13728233 26.60% Yamnaya:RISE240:Allentoft_2015 + 73.40% C_Italian_N:R18:Antonio_2019
    4.26827406 26.20% Yamnaya:I3141:Mathieson_2018 + 73.80% C_Italian_N:R18:Antonio_2019
    4.27173758 32.40% Sintashta:RISE394:Allentoft_2015 + 67.60% Minoan:Odigitria:I9129:Lazaridis_2017
    4.30313986 49.60% Hallstatt:Czechia_I16088 + 50.40% Minoan:Lasithi:I0071:Lazaridis_2017


    Interesting that in this analysis the Iberomaurisian drops out of the Balkan samples. Did you remove some samples from the Balkan set?


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

  11. #11
    Regular Member Duarte's Avatar
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Without any Balkan samples or La Tene, the fits are terrible for me; I was getting 5 and 6 with the other calculator. I think it better tracked actual known migrations to northern Italy.
    Distance to: Angela
    21.05470256 C_Italian_N:R17:Antonio_2019
    24.12944881 Minoan:Odigitria:I9129:Lazaridis_2017
    24.21946738 C_Italian_N:R18:Antonio_2019
    24.24685753 C_Italian_N:R3:Antonio_2019
    24.28506949 C_Italian_N:R9:Antonio_2019
    24.53227874 Hallstatt:Czechia_I15071
    24.68399279 C_Italian_N:R19:Antonio_2019
    24.95429823 C_Italian_N:R10:Antonio_2019
    25.01595091 C_Italian_N:R8:Antonio_2019
    25.12523831 C_Italian_N:R2:Antonio_2019
    25.50123919 C_Italian_N:R16:Antonio_2019
    25.51030968 Hungary_1180BC:BR2:Gamba_2014
    25.82338862 Minoan:Lasithi:I9005:Lazaridis_2017
    25.93733602 Minoan:Odigitria:I9130:Lazaridis_2017
    26.23348242 C_Italian_ChL:R4:Antonio_2019
    26.47724306 Hallstatt:Czechia_I14983
    26.59358381 Minoan:Lasithi:I0074:Lazaridis_2017
    26.83175730 Hallstatt:Czechia_I13781
    26.97469740 Minoan:Odigitria:I9131:Lazaridis_2017
    27.44410319 Minoan:Lasithi:I0071:Lazaridis_2017
    27.86807492 Hallstatt:Czechia_I16088
    28.00880040 Minoan:Petras_EBA:Pta08:Clemente_2021
    28.02387018 Anatolian_BA:I2495:Lazaridis_2017
    28.32850861 Anatolian_BA:I2499:Lazaridis_2017
    29.00443587 Hallstatt:Hungary_I16327

    The admixture ones are better.

    Target: Angela
    Distance: 1.4769% / 1.47694267 | ADC: 0.25x RC
    47.0 Hallstatt
    34.7 C_Italian_N
    18.3 Anatolian_BA



    Target: Angela
    Distance: 0.1964% / 0.19642384
    31.1 Minoan
    18.9 C_Italian_ChL
    11.4 Yamnaya
    11.0 C_Italian_N
    9.2 Hallstatt
    6.3 Corded_Ware
    6.0 Hungary_1180BC
    3.5 Remedello
    2.5 Nordic_BA
    0.1 Sintashta

    Without the admixed steppe groups known to have come to my area, the Italian Neolithic shows up more.
    Distance to: Angela
    2.98364720 49.80% Hallstatt:Czechia_I13781 + 50.20% Minoan:Lasithi:I0074:Lazaridis_2017
    3.12522842 49.60% Hallstatt:Czechia_I15071 + 50.40% Minoan:Odigitria:I9129:Lazaridis_2017
    3.33328392 38.60% Halberstadt_LBA:I0099_HAL36C:Haak_2015 + 61.40% Minoan:Odigitria:I9129:Lazaridis_2017
    3.46070126 27.00% Yamnaya:RISE550:Allentoft_2015 + 73.00% C_Italian_N:R18:Antonio_2019
    3.47458172 47.60% Hallstatt:Czechia_I14983 + 52.40% Minoan:Odigitria:I9129:Lazaridis_2017
    3.51317041 33.40% Sintashta:RISE386:Allentoft_2015 + 66.60% C_Italian_N:R18:Antonio_2019
    3.51593672 52.00% Hallstatt:Czechia_I15071 + 48.00% Minoan:Lasithi:I0074:Lazaridis_2017
    3.74549961 50.60% Hallstatt:Czechia_I13781 + 49.40% Minoan:Lasithi:I0071:Lazaridis_2017
    3.74552712 48.80% Hallstatt:Czechia_I16088 + 51.20% Minoan:Lasithi:I0074:Lazaridis_2017
    3.74821125 25.40% Yamnaya:RISE546:Allentoft_2015 + 74.60% C_Italian_N:R18:Antonio_2019
    3.86578309 28.80% Corded_Ware:RISE1:Allentoft_2015 + 71.20% C_Italian_N:R18:Antonio_2019
    3.88028176 25.60% Yamnaya:RISE546:Allentoft_2015 + 74.40% C_Italian_N:R19:Antonio_2019
    3.90061778 31.00% Corded_Ware:RISE434:Allentoft_2015 + 69.00% C_Italian_N:R18:Antonio_2019
    3.92440301 47.80% Hallstatt:Hungary_I16327 + 52.20% Minoan:Lasithi:I0074:Lazaridis_2017
    3.94453004 47.20% Hallstatt:Czechia_I13781 + 52.80% Minoan:Odigitria:I9129:Lazaridis_2017
    3.94777494 33.00% Sintashta:RISE392:Allentoft_2015 + 67.00% Minoan:Odigitria:I9129:Lazaridis_2017
    3.95658241 33.80% Sintashta:RISE395:Allentoft_2015 + 66.20% Minoan:Odigitria:I9129:Lazaridis_2017
    3.98360588 25.20% Yamnaya:RISE546:Allentoft_2015 + 74.80% C_Italian_N:R3:Antonio_2019
    4.03861950 51.40% Hallstatt:Czechia_I15071 + 48.60% Minoan:Odigitria:I9130:Lazaridis_2017
    4.11138890 52.80% Hallstatt:Czechia_I15071 + 47.20% Minoan:Lasithi:I0071:Lazaridis_2017
    4.11344266 27.20% Yamnaya:RISE547:Allentoft_2015 + 72.80% C_Italian_N:R18:Antonio_2019
    4.13728233 26.60% Yamnaya:RISE240:Allentoft_2015 + 73.40% C_Italian_N:R18:Antonio_2019
    4.26827406 26.20% Yamnaya:I3141:Mathieson_2018 + 73.80% C_Italian_N:R18:Antonio_2019
    4.27173758 32.40% Sintashta:RISE394:Allentoft_2015 + 67.60% Minoan:Odigitria:I9129:Lazaridis_2017
    4.30313986 49.60% Hallstatt:Czechia_I16088 + 50.40% Minoan:Lasithi:I0071:Lazaridis_2017


    Interesting that in this analysis the Iberomaurisian drops out of the Balkan samples. Did you remove some samples from the Balkan set?
    I have noticed that Beaker_Central_Europe, Olalde 2018, greatly improves the fit of other populations, stealing significant amounts of Corded_Ware from many others, including Baltic and Finnish populations, when it comes to modeling using modern Vahaduo Dodecad K12b populations updated spreadsheet as target. Also Lá Tène works better than Hallstatt in many other cases.

    PS: Balkan populations also work well, including Bul8 included in Mathieson's paper admix charts and whose mix is ​​virtually identical to Bul10 and Bul6, (In the three we can see the same pops and non-significant differences between the %s of these pops).

  12. #12
    Regular Member Malaparte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    I am not sure how people with "mixed" ancestry, like English and Calabrian could come out in the calculator. It might be throwing it off in your case.
    Something is amiss, as my mother is 33% Nordic_BA, and I score none. And she is 19.3 Sintashta, and I have only 2.1.

    So my Calabrian father may in fact have a lot more Minoan than me.

    It's all rather counter intuitive.

    Why do the tests not work for a "mixed" European background?

    And what is the connection between Nordic_BA and Ireland? If Nordic Bronze Age was 1750 to 500 BC, shouldn't it already have been very "German" by this point?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malaparte View Post
    Something is amiss, as my mother is 33% Nordic_BA, and I score none. And she is 19.3 Sintashta, and I have only 2.1.

    So my Calabrian father may in fact have a lot more Minoan than me.

    It's all rather counter intuitive.

    Why do the tests not work for a "mixed" European background?

    And what is the connection between Nordic_BA and Ireland? If Nordic Bronze Age was 1750 to 500 BC, shouldn't it already have been very "German" by this point?
    Malaparte: I am not sure it is amiss. My take on what "could be going one" (emphasis on could) relates to the random recombination of genes each time a parent has a child. While I can't derive the mathematical calculations (beyond my math level, stopped at Differential/Integral Calculus in College) and thus explain them well (somebody here I am sure can), think about the average DNA you would share with a 1st cousin (full one), it is about 12.5%, but the range could be higher or lower. 23 and Me documents the range can be from 7.5% to about 14%, so not a perfect normal distribution here but still it gives you and idea of the range and how the genetic recombination can produce a nice range of shared DNA for full 1st cousins.

    So while you both share the same two grandparents, you have different Mothers or Fathers and you get half your DNA from each, but obviously there is DNA that you got from your parent, who got it from the same two grandparents and there is is DNA your full first cousin got from their parent, who got it from the same two grandparents, but you and your first cousin did not inherit the same genes from the two grandparents hence the range for full 1st cousins can be 7.5% to about 14%.

    In the same way, your Mother or Father and her/his sibling did not inherit the same from their parents as Full siblings on average share about 50% DNA, but even then according to 23 and Me, that range can be from 38% to 61%. The differences in ranges is due to the random recombination of genes from each parent when they have children and pass it down to their children. The only 2 siblings that get the same exact DNA from their parents are of course Identical twins.

    I think the models that Jovialis produced, with assist from Duarte (adding the Yamnaya) is at least for peoples of European background that have all their ancestors from one country (and area within that country) are very accurate.

    Anyway, my take on it. Welcome any corrections, suggestions or further elaboration.

    Cheers

  14. #14
    Advisor Angela's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duarte View Post
    I have noticed that Beaker_Central_Europe, Olalde 2018, greatly improves the fit of other populations, stealing significant amounts of Corded_Ware from many others, including Baltic and Finnish populations, when it comes to modeling using modern Vahaduo Dodecad K12b populations updated spreadsheet as target. Also Lá Tène works better than Hallstatt in many other cases.

    PS: Balkan populations also work well, including Bul8 included in Mathieson's paper admix charts and whose mix is ​​virtually identical to Bul10 and Bul6, (In the three we can see the same pops and non-significant differences between the %s of these pops).
    I don't think the genetic mix was precisely the same for Hallstatt and LaTene. At least for northwestern Italy the signal seems to be closer to La Tene than Hallstatt, although perhaps part of that is that it is more recent and thus absorbs whatever steppe admixed group was already present in the Ligures and Italics/Etruscans.

    We don't have Ligures but we do have Italics/Eruscans. It would be interesting to see what steppe admixed groups they prefer.

    As for Nordic Bronze Age, I think there may be quite a bit of overlap between all the steppe admixed groups in North/Central and western Europe. Only when it is present along with La Tene do you see the split.

    For example, on some of these runs the French come out with very high Nordic Bronze Age. Yet, IBD analyses show a very limited input into the French from the post Roman Era Germanics.

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    @Palermo Trapani -- on the commercial Ancestry.com test my autosomal results agree with "intuition," i.e., my percentage of a given ancestral component is usually half of my mother's percentage. So I score 29% Irish. Rather, it's on the calculators for ancient components that the results seem unreliable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    I don't think the genetic mix was precisely the same for Hallstatt and LaTene. At least for northwestern Italy the signal seems to be closer to La Tene than Hallstatt, although perhaps part of that is that it is more recent and thus absorbs whatever steppe admixed group was already present in the Ligures and Italics/Etruscans.

    We don't have Ligures but we do have Italics/Eruscans. It would be interesting to see what steppe admixed groups they prefer.

    As for Nordic Bronze Age, I think there may be quite a bit of overlap between all the steppe admixed groups in North/Central and western Europe. Only when it is present along with La Tene do you see the split.

    For example, on some of these runs the French come out with very high Nordic Bronze Age. Yet, IBD analyses show a very limited input into the French from the post Roman Era Germanics.
    Yes Angela, I agree with you. And, in fact, as @Palermo Trapani pointed out, considering only the typical modern populations of the selected European regions as target using the same select group of ancient populations as a source, as magnificently done by Jovialis, an excellent fit is achieved for all of them, what is fascinating. In my case, an Iberian descendant of Portuguese, Andalusian and Galician immigrants that admixtures themselves in America and who has an uncertain genetic input from unknown and ancient slaves brought to America, the fit only improves by adding other populations, such as Beaker_Central_Europe, Beaker_Iberia, Scotland_CA_EBA, Bulgaria_EBA , Anatolian_N. I could try to speculate with the merchant exchanges in the Atlantic Bronze Age that approximate the western Beaker populations, including Scotland_CA_EBA, or the greater proximity of Neolithic and Early Bronze Age Bulgarians to Neolithic Anatolian and Neolithic Iberian farmers, rather than the Bronze Age Minoans, as Mathieson infers but, in fact, I would never be a good reference for not being a typical European with all the typical ancestors of a specific region.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Duarte View Post
    Yes Angela, I agree with you. And, in fact, as @Palermo Trapani pointed out, considering only the typical modern populations of the selected European regions as target using the same select group of ancient populations as a source, as magnificently done by Jovialis, an excellent fit is achieved for all of them, what is fascinating. In my case, an Iberian descendant of Portuguese, Andalusian and Galician immigrants that admixtures themselves in America and who has an uncertain genetic input from unknown and ancient slaves brought to America, the fit only improves by adding other populations, such as Beaker_Central_Europe, Beaker_Iberia, Scotland_CA_EBA, Bulgaria_EBA , Anatolian_N. I could try to speculate with the merchant exchanges in the Atlantic Bronze Age that approximate the western Beaker populations, including Scotland_CA_EBA, or the greater proximity of Neolithic and Early Bronze Age Bulgarians to Neolithic Anatolian and Neolithic Iberian farmers, rather than the Bronze Age Minoans, as Mathieson infers but, in fact, I would never be a good reference for not being a typical European with all the typical ancestors of a specific region.

    You might want to take a look at the last post I added to the thread on Patterson's new paper about using DATES. They do some admixture analyses using f statistics, and if I'm understanding him clearly, he makes the extraordinary claim that the Central European Beakers had no genetic impact on Iberia.

    My question there and here is where then did the small amount of steppe they find up to about 300 B.C. come from, if it didn't traverse central Europe, and did more steppe come with migration after 300 B.C.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    You might want to take a look at the last post I added to the thread on Patterson's new paper about using DATES. They do some admixture analyses using f statistics, and if I'm understanding him clearly, he makes the extraordinary claim that the Central European Beakers had no genetic impact on Iberia.

    My question there and here is where then did the small amount of steppe they find up to about 300 B.C. come from, if it didn't traverse central Europe, and did more steppe come with migration after 300 B.C.
    Thanks Angela. I will see there carefully. The Beaker Central is the main in my single distances.

    PS:

    Distance to: Duarte
    9.38223321 Beaker_Central_Europe:I6534:Olalde_2018
    10.02652482 Beaker_Central_Europe:I6581:Olalde_2018
    11.86776306 Beaker_Central_Europe:I7044:Olalde_2018
    12.09549916 Beaker_Central_Europe:I5022:Olalde_2018
    12.63142114 Beaker_Iberia:I6539:Olalde_2018
    12.92599706 Beaker_Central_Europe:I2364:Olalde_2018
    13.09382679 Beaker_Central_Europe:E09538:Olalde_2018
    13.16359753 Beaker_Central_Europe:I4252:Olalde_2018
    13.57537845 Beaker_Central_Europe:I4890:Olalde_2018
    13.99991786 Beaker_Central_Europe:I3588:Olalde_2018
    14.25930573 Beaker_Central_Europe:I4885:Olalde_2018
    14.83662024 Beaker_Central_Europe:I3604:Olalde_2018
    14.87106587 Bulgaria_EBA:I2176:Mathieson_2018
    14.99458902 Beaker_Central_Europe:I3597:Olalde_2018
    15.01998003 Beaker_Central_Europe:I5835:Olalde_2018
    15.72866491 Beaker_Iberia:I5665:Olalde_2018
    15.83431085 Beaker_Iberia:I6472:Olalde_2018
    16.00390577 Beaker_Central_Europe:I5529:Olalde_2018
    16.07419360 Beaker_Central_Europe:I7289:Olalde_2018
    16.42045066 Bulgaria_EBA:Bul10:Mathieson_2018
    16.50050908 Beaker_Central_Europe:I4887:Olalde_2018
    16.69155775 Bulgaria_EBA:I2175:Mathieson_2018
    17.63567124 Beaker_Central_Europe:I5660:Olalde_2018
    17.84517302 Bulgaria_EBA:Bul8:Mathieson_2018
    18.02754004 Hallstatt:Czechia_I15071

    And changed a little when I include La Tène:

    Distance to: Duarte
    9.38223321 Beaker_Central_Europe:I6534:Olalde_2018
    10.02652482 Beaker_Central_Europe:I6581:Olalde_2018
    11.37948593 La_Tène:Czechia_I17323
    11.72041382 La_Tène:Czechia_I15042
    11.86776306 Beaker_Central_Europe:I7044:Olalde_2018
    11.98845695 La_Tène:Austria_I11699
    12.09549916 Beaker_Central_Europe:I5022:Olalde_2018
    12.33060420 La_Tène:Austria_I11701
    12.46518752 La_Tène:Czechia_I15954
    12.49054042 La_Tène:Czechia_I17143
    12.63142114 Beaker_Iberia:I6539:Olalde_2018
    12.68483741 La_Tène:Hungary_I18489
    12.92599706 Beaker_Central_Europe:I2364:Olalde_2018
    13.09382679 Beaker_Central_Europe:E09538:Olalde_2018
    13.16359753 Beaker_Central_Europe:I4252:Olalde_2018
    13.43583269 La_Tène:Czechia_I17146
    13.49251274 La_Tène:Czechia_I17139
    13.57537845 Beaker_Central_Europe:I4890:Olalde_2018
    13.61506886 La_Tène:Czechia_I15952
    13.76384031 La_Tène:Czechia_I16271
    13.87161130 La_Tène:Czechia_I14986
    13.99991786 Beaker_Central_Europe:I3588:Olalde_2018
    14.01329726 La_Tène:Czechia_I15046
    14.25930573 Beaker_Central_Europe:I4885:Olalde_2018
    14.39266480 La_Tène:Austria_I11708

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    Quote Originally Posted by Malaparte View Post
    @Palermo Trapani -- on the commercial Ancestry.com test my autosomal results agree with "intuition," i.e., my percentage of a given ancestral component is usually half of my mother's percentage. So I score 29% Irish. Rather, it's on the calculators for ancient components that the results seem unreliable.
    Ok, got it. Well it could be the source populations in the models do not work maybe for folks with Irish ancestry. Is there a component in the model that is capturing English and or Scottish ancestry, that could be highly correlated with Irish ancestry thus the model can't correctly measure or distinguish say Irish, from Scottish or English, etc. Yes I recognize each of those groups have cultural differences, the Irish historically loyal to the Bishop of Rome, the Scotts more Calvinist and English more Anglican Church of England, for example.

    Just some thoughts to maybe consider. Thanks for the response, Cheers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    You might want to take a look at the last post I added to the thread on Patterson's new paper about using DATES. They do some admixture analyses using f statistics, and if I'm understanding him clearly, he makes the extraordinary claim that the Central European Beakers had no genetic impact on Iberia.

    My question there and here is where then did the small amount of steppe they find up to about 300 B.C. come from, if it didn't traverse central Europe, and did more steppe come with migration after 300 B.C.
    They're not usually sloppy with language but they were in this instance.

    This is what they meant:

    "We find the earliest evidence of Steppe pastoralist-related ancestry569 in Iberia around 3200 BCE, though this ancestry only becomes widespread after 2,500 BCE."

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    Although Jovialis has already done a ton of work, I often wonder why he uses certain reference populations in the models. So with this model we have:

    (1) Yamnaya --
    (2) Sintashta -- the actual group never entered West Europe -- and yet Northern Italian, French, Spaniards, British Isles, Germans, Scandinavians all score significant Sintasha --> what does this variable capture?
    (3) Catacomb -- this seemed significant in earlier versions of the model, now it has plummeted, save for Macedonia, Albania, a sliver of Montenegro, Sicily, Molise, Friuli
    (4) Corded Ware -- major component in Slavs and Balts, minor component in Germans
    (5) Halberstadt -- is this supposed to represent Neolithic Central Europe? Minoan + WHG + xxx? I go cross-eyed trying to tell some of these shades of green apart!
    (6) Hallstatt -- major Celtic center
    (7) Hungary - 1180 BC ---> What is the significance of this population? How does it differ from Hallstatt?
    (8) Nordic Bronze Age -- I assume this is proto-Germanic -- but why is it so significant in Ireland? Is this reflecting shared mtDNA ancestry?
    (9) Central Italian Chalcolithic -- this looks pan European, except Southern Italy and Greece -- it's highest in Spain, but even registers on the Steppe ---> what is the component in fact representing?
    (10) Neolithic Italian -- seems to be a Western Mediterranean variable, highest in Sardinia, Corsica, Spain, Liguria
    (11) Remedello -- I assume this is pre-Neolithic WHG -- highest in Basques, then Spain, but also Ireland, western France, Britain
    (12) Minoan -- this is basically Anatolian Neolithic *unmixed* with WHG? -- major component in most of Italy & Balkans, but not Western Europe
    (13) Anatolian Bronze Age -- more CHG than Minoan? -- it's basically an Aegean marker -- very high in Southern Italy and Sephardics
    (14) Iberomaurusian
    (15) Bolshoy-Ostrov -- presumably EHG

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    Is Sintashta somehow an artificial proxy for what original Bell Beaker populations may have looked like?

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    I suggest you go back and read not only this thread, but the one on using La Tene, and also the academic papers discussing admixture during the Bronze and Iron Age. The answers are there. I don't think anyone has the time to write out pages and pages explaining all of these things, when they've already been explained.

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    I forgot what Jovialis had said about Chalcolithic Italian --> reflects WHG resurgence during Copper Age

    I shall investigate how Nordic BA and Sintashta are relevant for modeling Irish. Would not want to drag down the tenor of the conversation.

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    Sintashta were added because, as alternative to Catacomb thesis, possible historical source population for Mycenaeans.

    The relationship to the modeling of other European populations, notably NW Europe, is incidental.

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