Modeling with aDNA

Jovialis

Advisor
Messages
9,213
Reaction score
5,680
Points
113
Ethnic group
Italian
Y-DNA haplogroup
R-PF7566 (R-Y227216)
mtDNA haplogroup
H6a1b7
vFYmyGU.png


This is a new version of the sample set I used in the Le Tene thread. I pruned out some samples that were outliers in the grouping; removed some groups, and added new ones.

Code:
Bolshoy_Ostrov:3473±87:BOO002:Lamnidis_2018,7.06,37.43,0,3.6,0,47.07,0.95,0,0,3.41,0,0.49
Bolshoy_Ostrov:3473±87:BOO003:Lamnidis_2018,6.18,36.9,0,0,0,47.84,2.79,0.46,0,5.33,0,0.48
Bolshoy_Ostrov:3473±87:BOO004:Lamnidis_2018,6.92,35.07,0,0,0,45.92,2.7,0,0,8.75,0,0.63
Bolshoy_Ostrov:3473±87:BOO005:Lamnidis_2018,9.82,36.37,0,0,0,45.27,0.74,0,0,7.48,0,0.31
Bolshoy_Ostrov:3473±87:BOO006:Lamnidis_2018,4.07,44.75,0,0,0,36.53,2.94,0,0,11.3,0,0.41
Halberstadt_LBA:I0099_HAL36C:Haak_2015,11.71,1.33,0,0,32.66,48.06,0,0.48,0,0,5.2,0.55
Yamnaya:RISE240:Allentoft_2015,26.6,1.31,0,0,7.93,64.16,0,0,0,0,0,0
Yamnaya:RISE546:Allentoft_2015,22.07,0,0,0,0,70.45,0,0,0,0,7.49,0
Yamnaya:RISE547:Allentoft_2015,26.54,0,0,0,10.09,63.38,0,0,0,0,0,0
Yamnaya:RISE548:Allentoft_2015,27.76,0,0.93,0,3.91,65.86,0,0,0,0,1.35,0.19
Yamnaya:RISE550:Allentoft_2015,23.64,0.86,0,0,9.61,64.98,0.74,0,0,0,0,0.17
Yamnaya:RISE552:Allentoft_2015,30.94,1.6,0,0.01,2.06,61.11,0.39,0,0,0,3.1,0.78
Yamnaya:I0231_SVP3:Haak_2015,28.48,2.19,0,0,1.43,59.76,2.73,0,0,0,4.53,0.89
Yamnaya:I0357_SVP5:Haak_2015,31.45,0.86,0,0.77,4.05,54.56,2.22,0,0,0,6.09,0
Yamnaya:I0370_SVP10:Haak_2015,24.66,6.11,0,0,0,59.29,0,0,0,0,9.32,0.62
Yamnaya:I0429_SVP38:Haak_2015,26.2,3.3,0,0,2.84,64.62,2.03,0,0,0,0,1
Yamnaya:I0438_SVP50:Haak_2015,23.9,4.62,0,0,0,60.95,1.32,0.31,0,0,8.64,0.26
Yamnaya:I0441_SVP54:Haak_2015,33.48,1.54,0,0,0,56.53,8.46,0,0,0,0,0
Yamnaya:I0443_SVP57:Haak_2015,28.03,2.76,0,0,5.5,59.49,0,0,0,0,3.22,1
Yamnaya:I0444_SVP58:Haak_2015,30.94,0.57,0,0,3.61,59.43,0,0.11,0,0,2.51,2.83
Yamnaya:I2105:Mathieson_2018,25.39,2.85,0,0,1.94,58.76,1.17,0,0,0,8.18,1.72
Yamnaya:I3141:Mathieson_2018,24.66,4.21,0,0,2.47,64.51,1.21,0,0,0,2.93,0
Catacomb:MJ-09:Jarve_2019,25.71,4.68,0,0.61,7.93,55.69,0,0,0,0,2.4,2.97
Catacomb:MK3003:Wang_2019,29.97,2.83,0,0.37,3.73,54.49,1.01,0,0,0,5.99,1.62
Catacomb:RK4001:Wang_2019,26.39,2.57,0,0,2.96,54.74,2.09,0,0,0,10.33,0.92
Catacomb:RK4002:Wang_2019,29.4,1.88,0,0,2.25,59.81,0.86,0,0,0,5.54,0.24
Catacomb:SA6003:Wang_2019,28.23,2.3,0,0,0.76,59.25,1.7,0,0,0,6.52,1.23
Sintashta:RISE386:Allentoft_2015,15.34,0.38,0,0,24.56,55.73,0,0,0,0,3.31,0.68
Sintashta:RISE392:Allentoft_2015,12.29,0,0.39,0,30.03,57.18,0,0,0,0,0,0.11
Sintashta:RISE394:Allentoft_2015,16.36,0,0,0,26.29,56.64,0,0,0,0,0.71,0
Sintashta:RISE395:Allentoft_2015,14.51,0,0,0,30.54,54.26,0,0,0,0,0.16,0.52
Remedello:RISE487:Allentoft_2015,0,0,1.36,0,75.55,12.12,0,0,0.84,0,9.88,0.24
Remedello:RISE489:Allentoft_2015,0,0,0,0,72.08,12.24,0,0,5.69,0,9.99,0
Corded_Ware:RISE1:Allentoft_2015,9.53,2.23,0,0,20.52,67.27,0,0,0,0,0.46,0
Corded_Ware:RISE434:Allentoft_2015,15.93,0,0,0,23.21,60.04,0,0,0,0,0,0.82
Corded_Ware:RISE435:Allentoft_2015,1.49,0,0,0,21.13,68.03,0,0,0,0,9.36,0
Corded_Ware:RISE446:Allentoft_2015,10.44,0,0,0,25.54,64.02,0,0,0,0,0,0
Nordic_BA:RISE47:Allentoft_2015,4.99,0,0,0,37.63,55.78,0,0,0,0,1.6,0
Nordic_BA:RISE175:Allentoft_2015,0,0,0,0,44.56,55.44,0,0,0,0,0,0
Hallstatt:Czechia_I13781,6.20,0.00,0.00,0.14,38.66,39.72,0.85,0.00,2.30,0.67,10.26,1.20
Hallstatt:Czechia_I14983,4.66,0.11,0.74,0.18,35.81,41.52,0.39,0,1.8,0,14.18,0.61
Hallstatt:Czechia_I15071,5.13,0.00,2.36,0.00,38.23,39.29,0.00,0.00,0.45,0.00,14.03,0.52
Hallstatt:Czechia_I16088,5.87,2.57,0.00,0.00,38.83,39.71,0.00,0.00,3.62,0.00,8.54,0.86
Hallstatt:Hungary_I16327,6.72,0,0,0,38.03,40.63,0,0.07,4.2,1.47,7.85,1.02
Hungary_1180BC:BR2:Gamba_2014,1.09,0,0.38,0,36.78,41.52,0,0,3.74,0,16.14,0.36
C_Italian_ChL:R4:Antonio_2019,0,0,2.77,0.12,60.45,3.99,0,0,10.54,0.02,21.81,0.32
C_Italian_ChL:R5:Antonio_2019,0,0,2.76,0,63.45,3.27,0,0,10.15,0,20.2,0.17
C_Italian_ChL:R1014:Antonio_2019,0,0,2.67,0,64.87,0.54,0,0,0,0,31.92,0
C_Italian_N:R2:Antonio_2019,0,0,3.61,0,54.5,0,0,0.17,12.44,0,29.12,0.16
C_Italian_N:R3:Antonio_2019,0,0,4.22,0,52.75,0,0,0,11.28,0.2,31.18,0.38
C_Italian_N:R8:Antonio_2019,0,0,2.42,0,53.24,0,0,0,14.2,0.44,29.46,0.24
C_Italian_N:R9:Antonio_2019,0,0,2.58,0,50.8,0,0,0,13.79,0,32.49,0.34
C_Italian_N:R10:Antonio_2019,0,0,3.35,0,53.37,0,0,0,13.76,0,29.52,0
C_Italian_N:R16:Antonio_2019,0,0,3.41,0,57.73,1.14,0,0,9.12,0.21,28.3,0.09
C_Italian_N:R17:Antonio_2019,0,0,4.12,0,50.89,3.18,0,0,13.16,0,28.66,0
C_Italian_N:R18:Antonio_2019,0,0,3.72,0,51.41,0,0,0.09,10.24,0,34.54,0
C_Italian_N:R19:Antonio_2019,0,0,4.33,0,55.74,0.85,0,0,9.83,0,29.26,0
Minoan:Lasithi:I0070:Lazaridis_2017,0,0,0.62,0.55,37.53,0,0,0,15.52,0,45.7,0.09
Minoan:Lasithi:I0071:Lazaridis_2017,1.16,0,2.96,0,37.9,0.23,0,0,13.01,0,44.59,0.15
Minoan:Lasithi:I0073:Lazaridis_2017,0,0.05,2.92,0.4,36.38,0,0,0,13.48,0,46.7,0.07
Minoan:Lasithi:I0074:Lazaridis_2017,0.58,0,4.33,0,39.44,0,0,0,12.45,0,43.19,0
Minoan:Lasithi:I9005:Lazaridis_2017,1.52,0,5.68,0,37.33,0,0,0,16.14,0,39.25,0.08
Minoan:Odigitria:I9129:Lazaridis_2017,0,0,4.55,0,44.82,0,0,0,13.21,0,37.43,0
Minoan:Odigitria:I9130:Lazaridis_2017,1.38,0,0.19,0,41.77,0,0,0.28,17.61,0,38.77,0
Minoan:Odigitria:I9131:Lazaridis_2017,5.16,0,0,0,36.32,0,0,0,19.19,0,39.01,0.33
Minoan:Petras_EBA:Pta08:Clemente_2021,0,0,3.85,0.33,34.73,0.38,0.14,0.05,14.68,0.48,43.65,1.72
Anatolian_BA:I2495:Lazaridis_2017,6.07,0,1.17,1.3,27.23,3.79,0,0,14.72,0,43.22,2.51
Anatolian_BA:I2499:Lazaridis_2017,7.88,0.24,1.61,0,26.13,4.81,0,1.72,13.22,0.03,44.36,0
Anatolian_BA:I2683:Lazaridis_2017,8.73,0.62,2.12,0.42,25.19,0.9,0,0,14.26,0,45.14,2.61
Iberomaurusian:TAF009:Loosdrecht_2018,0,3.54,60.38,2.05,0,0,2.48,18.95,8.83,0,0,3.78
Iberomaurusian:TAF010:Loosdrecht_2018,0,0.55,63.9,3.27,0,0.17,1.39,18.7,5.98,0,0,6.05
Iberomaurusian:TAF011:Loosdrecht_2018,0,1.28,64.11,2.45,0,0.07,0.7,18.22,5.74,0.18,0,7.24
Iberomaurusian:TAF012:Loosdrecht_2018,0,1.79,63.81,0.8,0.44,0,3.27,16.18,5.76,0.59,0,7.35
Iberomaurusian:TAF013:Loosdrecht_2018,0,1.07,61.84,2.72,0,0.02,1.89,18.58,6.99,0,0,6.89
Iberomaurusian:TAF014:Loosdrecht_2018,0,0.74,62.76,2.95,0,0,2.12,18.14,5.34,0,0,7.95
Iberomaurusian:TAF015:Loosdrecht_2018,0,0,62.82,1.87,0,0.9,0,15.76,6.67,3.45,0,8.52
 
Jovialis: Thanks again for all your work. My models using data you provided in post 1 above. Real Good fits again for me with all models (Ancestry, NATGENO, 23ME and combined Ancestry/23ME), similar to the Lene Thread and again Ancestry gives me the best model. One thing I notice is that my combined results are closer to Ancestry which I would think indicates Ancestry has more SNPS and the ones that are in 23/ME that are not tested in Ancestry do not pull my results away from the basic base line Model that Ancestry gives me. I wonder if this is just my results are other folks here whose ancestors are Southern Italian (you and Salento, for example) get similar results. I also wish it was possible to merge the NATGENO results as it does seem to pick up son SNPS (ancestry) that Ancestry does not (Corded Ware) although 23/ME also picks up some of that along with 2 smaller Anatolian BA and Nordic BA signals. Thanks again for all your work.



u5MhaKa.jpg
 
Last edited:
Distance to: Torziok12b
4.79431310 Hallstatt:Czechia_I15071
5.80202202 Hungary_1180BC:BR2:Gamba_2014
5.94974608 Hallstatt:Czechia_I14983
6.72631460 Hallstatt:Czechia_I13781
7.82748440 Hallstatt:Czechia_I16088
8.58762761 Hallstatt:Hungary_I16327
16.92584818 Halberstadt_LBA:I0099_HAL36C:Haak_2015
21.75514919 C_Italian_N:R17:Antonio_2019
24.55821465 Nordic_BA:RISE47:Allentoft_2015


others are over 25.0
 
vFYmyGU.png


This is a new version of the sample set I used in the Le Tene thread. I pruned out some samples that were outliers in the grouping; removed some groups, and added new ones.

Code:
Bolshoy_Ostrov:3473±87:BOO002:Lamnidis_2018,7.06,37.43,0,3.6,0,47.07,0.95,0,0,3.41,0,0.49
Bolshoy_Ostrov:3473±87:BOO003:Lamnidis_2018,6.18,36.9,0,0,0,47.84,2.79,0.46,0,5.33,0,0.48
Bolshoy_Ostrov:3473±87:BOO004:Lamnidis_2018,6.92,35.07,0,0,0,45.92,2.7,0,0,8.75,0,0.63
Bolshoy_Ostrov:3473±87:BOO005:Lamnidis_2018,9.82,36.37,0,0,0,45.27,0.74,0,0,7.48,0,0.31
Bolshoy_Ostrov:3473±87:BOO006:Lamnidis_2018,4.07,44.75,0,0,0,36.53,2.94,0,0,11.3,0,0.41
Halberstadt_LBA:I0099_HAL36C:Haak_2015,11.71,1.33,0,0,32.66,48.06,0,0.48,0,0,5.2,0.55
Yamnaya:RISE240:Allentoft_2015,26.6,1.31,0,0,7.93,64.16,0,0,0,0,0,0
Yamnaya:RISE546:Allentoft_2015,22.07,0,0,0,0,70.45,0,0,0,0,7.49,0
Yamnaya:RISE547:Allentoft_2015,26.54,0,0,0,10.09,63.38,0,0,0,0,0,0
Yamnaya:RISE548:Allentoft_2015,27.76,0,0.93,0,3.91,65.86,0,0,0,0,1.35,0.19
Yamnaya:RISE550:Allentoft_2015,23.64,0.86,0,0,9.61,64.98,0.74,0,0,0,0,0.17
Yamnaya:RISE552:Allentoft_2015,30.94,1.6,0,0.01,2.06,61.11,0.39,0,0,0,3.1,0.78
Yamnaya:I0231_SVP3:Haak_2015,28.48,2.19,0,0,1.43,59.76,2.73,0,0,0,4.53,0.89
Yamnaya:I0357_SVP5:Haak_2015,31.45,0.86,0,0.77,4.05,54.56,2.22,0,0,0,6.09,0
Yamnaya:I0370_SVP10:Haak_2015,24.66,6.11,0,0,0,59.29,0,0,0,0,9.32,0.62
Yamnaya:I0429_SVP38:Haak_2015,26.2,3.3,0,0,2.84,64.62,2.03,0,0,0,0,1
Yamnaya:I0438_SVP50:Haak_2015,23.9,4.62,0,0,0,60.95,1.32,0.31,0,0,8.64,0.26
Yamnaya:I0441_SVP54:Haak_2015,33.48,1.54,0,0,0,56.53,8.46,0,0,0,0,0
Yamnaya:I0443_SVP57:Haak_2015,28.03,2.76,0,0,5.5,59.49,0,0,0,0,3.22,1
Yamnaya:I0444_SVP58:Haak_2015,30.94,0.57,0,0,3.61,59.43,0,0.11,0,0,2.51,2.83
Yamnaya:I2105:Mathieson_2018,25.39,2.85,0,0,1.94,58.76,1.17,0,0,0,8.18,1.72
Yamnaya:I3141:Mathieson_2018,24.66,4.21,0,0,2.47,64.51,1.21,0,0,0,2.93,0
Catacomb:MJ-09:Jarve_2019,25.71,4.68,0,0.61,7.93,55.69,0,0,0,0,2.4,2.97
Catacomb:MK3003:Wang_2019,29.97,2.83,0,0.37,3.73,54.49,1.01,0,0,0,5.99,1.62
Catacomb:RK4001:Wang_2019,26.39,2.57,0,0,2.96,54.74,2.09,0,0,0,10.33,0.92
Catacomb:RK4002:Wang_2019,29.4,1.88,0,0,2.25,59.81,0.86,0,0,0,5.54,0.24
Catacomb:SA6003:Wang_2019,28.23,2.3,0,0,0.76,59.25,1.7,0,0,0,6.52,1.23
Sintashta:RISE386:Allentoft_2015,15.34,0.38,0,0,24.56,55.73,0,0,0,0,3.31,0.68
Sintashta:RISE392:Allentoft_2015,12.29,0,0.39,0,30.03,57.18,0,0,0,0,0,0.11
Sintashta:RISE394:Allentoft_2015,16.36,0,0,0,26.29,56.64,0,0,0,0,0.71,0
Sintashta:RISE395:Allentoft_2015,14.51,0,0,0,30.54,54.26,0,0,0,0,0.16,0.52
Remedello:RISE487:Allentoft_2015,0,0,1.36,0,75.55,12.12,0,0,0.84,0,9.88,0.24
Remedello:RISE489:Allentoft_2015,0,0,0,0,72.08,12.24,0,0,5.69,0,9.99,0
Corded_Ware:RISE1:Allentoft_2015,9.53,2.23,0,0,20.52,67.27,0,0,0,0,0.46,0
Corded_Ware:RISE434:Allentoft_2015,15.93,0,0,0,23.21,60.04,0,0,0,0,0,0.82
Corded_Ware:RISE435:Allentoft_2015,1.49,0,0,0,21.13,68.03,0,0,0,0,9.36,0
Corded_Ware:RISE446:Allentoft_2015,10.44,0,0,0,25.54,64.02,0,0,0,0,0,0
Nordic_BA:RISE47:Allentoft_2015,4.99,0,0,0,37.63,55.78,0,0,0,0,1.6,0
Nordic_BA:RISE175:Allentoft_2015,0,0,0,0,44.56,55.44,0,0,0,0,0,0
Hallstatt:Czechia_I13781,6.20,0.00,0.00,0.14,38.66,39.72,0.85,0.00,2.30,0.67,10.26,1.20
Hallstatt:Czechia_I14983,4.66,0.11,0.74,0.18,35.81,41.52,0.39,0,1.8,0,14.18,0.61
Hallstatt:Czechia_I15071,5.13,0.00,2.36,0.00,38.23,39.29,0.00,0.00,0.45,0.00,14.03,0.52
Hallstatt:Czechia_I16088,5.87,2.57,0.00,0.00,38.83,39.71,0.00,0.00,3.62,0.00,8.54,0.86
Hallstatt:Hungary_I16327,6.72,0,0,0,38.03,40.63,0,0.07,4.2,1.47,7.85,1.02
Hungary_1180BC:BR2:Gamba_2014,1.09,0,0.38,0,36.78,41.52,0,0,3.74,0,16.14,0.36
C_Italian_ChL:R4:Antonio_2019,0,0,2.77,0.12,60.45,3.99,0,0,10.54,0.02,21.81,0.32
C_Italian_ChL:R5:Antonio_2019,0,0,2.76,0,63.45,3.27,0,0,10.15,0,20.2,0.17
C_Italian_ChL:R1014:Antonio_2019,0,0,2.67,0,64.87,0.54,0,0,0,0,31.92,0
C_Italian_N:R2:Antonio_2019,0,0,3.61,0,54.5,0,0,0.17,12.44,0,29.12,0.16
C_Italian_N:R3:Antonio_2019,0,0,4.22,0,52.75,0,0,0,11.28,0.2,31.18,0.38
C_Italian_N:R8:Antonio_2019,0,0,2.42,0,53.24,0,0,0,14.2,0.44,29.46,0.24
C_Italian_N:R9:Antonio_2019,0,0,2.58,0,50.8,0,0,0,13.79,0,32.49,0.34
C_Italian_N:R10:Antonio_2019,0,0,3.35,0,53.37,0,0,0,13.76,0,29.52,0
C_Italian_N:R16:Antonio_2019,0,0,3.41,0,57.73,1.14,0,0,9.12,0.21,28.3,0.09
C_Italian_N:R17:Antonio_2019,0,0,4.12,0,50.89,3.18,0,0,13.16,0,28.66,0
C_Italian_N:R18:Antonio_2019,0,0,3.72,0,51.41,0,0,0.09,10.24,0,34.54,0
C_Italian_N:R19:Antonio_2019,0,0,4.33,0,55.74,0.85,0,0,9.83,0,29.26,0
Minoan:Lasithi:I0070:Lazaridis_2017,0,0,0.62,0.55,37.53,0,0,0,15.52,0,45.7,0.09
Minoan:Lasithi:I0071:Lazaridis_2017,1.16,0,2.96,0,37.9,0.23,0,0,13.01,0,44.59,0.15
Minoan:Lasithi:I0073:Lazaridis_2017,0,0.05,2.92,0.4,36.38,0,0,0,13.48,0,46.7,0.07
Minoan:Lasithi:I0074:Lazaridis_2017,0.58,0,4.33,0,39.44,0,0,0,12.45,0,43.19,0
Minoan:Lasithi:I9005:Lazaridis_2017,1.52,0,5.68,0,37.33,0,0,0,16.14,0,39.25,0.08
Minoan:Odigitria:I9129:Lazaridis_2017,0,0,4.55,0,44.82,0,0,0,13.21,0,37.43,0
Minoan:Odigitria:I9130:Lazaridis_2017,1.38,0,0.19,0,41.77,0,0,0.28,17.61,0,38.77,0
Minoan:Odigitria:I9131:Lazaridis_2017,5.16,0,0,0,36.32,0,0,0,19.19,0,39.01,0.33
Minoan:Petras_EBA:Pta08:Clemente_2021,0,0,3.85,0.33,34.73,0.38,0.14,0.05,14.68,0.48,43.65,1.72
Anatolian_BA:I2495:Lazaridis_2017,6.07,0,1.17,1.3,27.23,3.79,0,0,14.72,0,43.22,2.51
Anatolian_BA:I2499:Lazaridis_2017,7.88,0.24,1.61,0,26.13,4.81,0,1.72,13.22,0.03,44.36,0
Anatolian_BA:I2683:Lazaridis_2017,8.73,0.62,2.12,0.42,25.19,0.9,0,0,14.26,0,45.14,2.61
Iberomaurusian:TAF009:Loosdrecht_2018,0,3.54,60.38,2.05,0,0,2.48,18.95,8.83,0,0,3.78
Iberomaurusian:TAF010:Loosdrecht_2018,0,0.55,63.9,3.27,0,0.17,1.39,18.7,5.98,0,0,6.05
Iberomaurusian:TAF011:Loosdrecht_2018,0,1.28,64.11,2.45,0,0.07,0.7,18.22,5.74,0.18,0,7.24
Iberomaurusian:TAF012:Loosdrecht_2018,0,1.79,63.81,0.8,0.44,0,3.27,16.18,5.76,0.59,0,7.35
Iberomaurusian:TAF013:Loosdrecht_2018,0,1.07,61.84,2.72,0,0.02,1.89,18.58,6.99,0,0,6.89
Iberomaurusian:TAF014:Loosdrecht_2018,0,0.74,62.76,2.95,0,0,2.12,18.14,5.34,0,0,7.95
Iberomaurusian:TAF015:Loosdrecht_2018,0,0,62.82,1.87,0,0.9,0,15.76,6.67,3.45,0,8.52


Halstatt high numbers

Emilian
Veneto
Aosta
German
Austrian Tyrol
French North

Are these all continental celts or neighbours of ???
 
My results (modern ancestry is 50% Calabria, 50% British Isles) -- I'm surprised the Minoan is so low

Target: dominic
Distance: 0.5139% / 0.51389491

25.2Hallstatt
23.7Anatolian_BA
23.6Yamnaya
10.7C_Italian_ChL
7.6C_Italian_N
3.3Remedello
2.6Iberomaurusian
2.1Sintashta
1.2Minoan

My mother's results (modern ancestry 50% Irish, 50% Yorkshire)

Target: mom
Distance: 0.4195% / 0.41947977

33.6Nordic_BA
19.3Sintashta
15.1C_Italian_ChL
13.9Yamnaya
10.0Remedello
8.1Corded_Ware
 
I'm struck by how high Palermo Trapani's Minoan component is (70%) and how low mine is (a mere 1.2%, even allowing that I'm only half Calabrese).

Did the two "Greek" clines that Jovialis speaks of on the La Tena thread operate also in the Far South?
 
What I find interesting is that this modeling only works well for the samples in the chart. They are all under fitness of 4 if I recall. In the previous model, it worked well for Italians, Iberians, Balkans, Poland and Northwestern Europeans. But now with the inclusion of Bolshoy_Ostrov, It now brings in eastern and north eastern Europeans, as well as Uralic peoples.

This modeling doesn't work well for any other population really, it is almost exclusively for people within Europe. Which I think is very fascinating.
 
@Torzio, Palermo, and Malaparte,


Indeed, it shows a connection with Celtic peoples, as well as some Nordic as well.

Eastern Europe looks mostly defined by a preference for Corded ware, though there are some bits in the west as well. In the west, Nordic and Celtic cultures show to take preference. As well as BR2, which is Bronze Age Hungarian.

Minoans prevalent in the Balkans, and Italy, as well as some places as far as Bavaria to a small degree. Eastern Europe also gets some Minoan. Aneli et al. 2022 said they are at one end of the Mediterranean continuum. I think Anatolian_BA is more representative of Aegean, and eastern Mediterranean people in most cases.

I am not sure how people with "mixed" ancestry, like English and Calabrian could come out in the calculator. It might be throwing it off in your case.

I know these are the "Updated" samples, but Sicilian_D, and South_Italian_Sicilan_D do get similar proportions in the chart, in regards to Anatolian_BA admixture.
 
Without any Balkan samples or La Tene, the fits are terrible for me; I was getting 5 and 6 with the other calculator. I think it better tracked actual known migrations to northern Italy.
Distance to:Angela
21.05470256C_Italian_N:R17:Antonio_2019
24.12944881Minoan:Odigitria:I9129:Lazaridis_2017
24.21946738C_Italian_N:R18:Antonio_2019
24.24685753C_Italian_N:R3:Antonio_2019
24.28506949C_Italian_N:R9:Antonio_2019
24.53227874Hallstatt:Czechia_I15071
24.68399279C_Italian_N:R19:Antonio_2019
24.95429823C_Italian_N:R10:Antonio_2019
25.01595091C_Italian_N:R8:Antonio_2019
25.12523831C_Italian_N:R2:Antonio_2019
25.50123919C_Italian_N:R16:Antonio_2019
25.51030968Hungary_1180BC:BR2:Gamba_2014
25.82338862Minoan:Lasithi:I9005:Lazaridis_2017
25.93733602Minoan:Odigitria:I9130:Lazaridis_2017
26.23348242C_Italian_ChL:R4:Antonio_2019
26.47724306Hallstatt:Czechia_I14983
26.59358381Minoan:Lasithi:I0074:Lazaridis_2017
26.83175730Hallstatt:Czechia_I13781
26.97469740Minoan:Odigitria:I9131:Lazaridis_2017
27.44410319Minoan:Lasithi:I0071:Lazaridis_2017
27.86807492Hallstatt:Czechia_I16088
28.00880040Minoan:petras_EBA:pta08:Clemente_2021
28.02387018Anatolian_BA:I2495:Lazaridis_2017
28.32850861Anatolian_BA:I2499:Lazaridis_2017
29.00443587Hallstatt:Hungary_I16327

The admixture ones are better.

Target: Angela
Distance: 1.4769% / 1.47694267 | ADC: 0.25x RC
47.0Hallstatt
34.7C_Italian_N
18.3Anatolian_BA


Target: Angela
Distance: 0.1964% / 0.19642384
31.1Minoan
18.9C_Italian_ChL
11.4Yamnaya
11.0C_Italian_N
9.2Hallstatt
6.3Corded_Ware
6.0Hungary_1180BC
3.5Remedello
2.5Nordic_BA
0.1Sintashta

Without the admixed steppe groups known to have come to my area, the Italian Neolithic shows up more.
Distance to:Angela
2.9836472049.80% Hallstatt:Czechia_I13781 + 50.20% Minoan:Lasithi:I0074:Lazaridis_2017
3.1252284249.60% Hallstatt:Czechia_I15071 + 50.40% Minoan:Odigitria:I9129:Lazaridis_2017
3.3332839238.60% Halberstadt_LBA:I0099_HAL36C:Haak_2015 + 61.40% Minoan:Odigitria:I9129:Lazaridis_2017
3.4607012627.00% Yamnaya:RISE550:Allentoft_2015 + 73.00% C_Italian_N:R18:Antonio_2019
3.4745817247.60% Hallstatt:Czechia_I14983 + 52.40% Minoan:Odigitria:I9129:Lazaridis_2017
3.5131704133.40% Sintashta:RISE386:Allentoft_2015 + 66.60% C_Italian_N:R18:Antonio_2019
3.5159367252.00% Hallstatt:Czechia_I15071 + 48.00% Minoan:Lasithi:I0074:Lazaridis_2017
3.7454996150.60% Hallstatt:Czechia_I13781 + 49.40% Minoan:Lasithi:I0071:Lazaridis_2017
3.7455271248.80% Hallstatt:Czechia_I16088 + 51.20% Minoan:Lasithi:I0074:Lazaridis_2017
3.7482112525.40% Yamnaya:RISE546:Allentoft_2015 + 74.60% C_Italian_N:R18:Antonio_2019
3.8657830928.80% Corded_Ware:RISE1:Allentoft_2015 + 71.20% C_Italian_N:R18:Antonio_2019
3.8802817625.60% Yamnaya:RISE546:Allentoft_2015 + 74.40% C_Italian_N:R19:Antonio_2019
3.9006177831.00% Corded_Ware:RISE434:Allentoft_2015 + 69.00% C_Italian_N:R18:Antonio_2019
3.9244030147.80% Hallstatt:Hungary_I16327 + 52.20% Minoan:Lasithi:I0074:Lazaridis_2017
3.9445300447.20% Hallstatt:Czechia_I13781 + 52.80% Minoan:Odigitria:I9129:Lazaridis_2017
3.9477749433.00% Sintashta:RISE392:Allentoft_2015 + 67.00% Minoan:Odigitria:I9129:Lazaridis_2017
3.9565824133.80% Sintashta:RISE395:Allentoft_2015 + 66.20% Minoan:Odigitria:I9129:Lazaridis_2017
3.9836058825.20% Yamnaya:RISE546:Allentoft_2015 + 74.80% C_Italian_N:R3:Antonio_2019
4.0386195051.40% Hallstatt:Czechia_I15071 + 48.60% Minoan:Odigitria:I9130:Lazaridis_2017
4.1113889052.80% Hallstatt:Czechia_I15071 + 47.20% Minoan:Lasithi:I0071:Lazaridis_2017
4.1134426627.20% Yamnaya:RISE547:Allentoft_2015 + 72.80% C_Italian_N:R18:Antonio_2019
4.1372823326.60% Yamnaya:RISE240:Allentoft_2015 + 73.40% C_Italian_N:R18:Antonio_2019
4.2682740626.20% Yamnaya:I3141:Mathieson_2018 + 73.80% C_Italian_N:R18:Antonio_2019
4.2717375832.40% Sintashta:RISE394:Allentoft_2015 + 67.60% Minoan:Odigitria:I9129:Lazaridis_2017
4.3031398649.60% Hallstatt:Czechia_I16088 + 50.40% Minoan:Lasithi:I0071:Lazaridis_2017


Interesting that in this analysis the Iberomaurisian drops out of the Balkan samples. Did you remove some samples from the Balkan set?
 
Without any Balkan samples or La Tene, the fits are terrible for me; I was getting 5 and 6 with the other calculator. I think it better tracked actual known migrations to northern Italy.
Distance to:Angela
21.05470256C_Italian_N:R17:Antonio_2019
24.12944881Minoan:Odigitria:I9129:Lazaridis_2017
24.21946738C_Italian_N:R18:Antonio_2019
24.24685753C_Italian_N:R3:Antonio_2019
24.28506949C_Italian_N:R9:Antonio_2019
24.53227874Hallstatt:Czechia_I15071
24.68399279C_Italian_N:R19:Antonio_2019
24.95429823C_Italian_N:R10:Antonio_2019
25.01595091C_Italian_N:R8:Antonio_2019
25.12523831C_Italian_N:R2:Antonio_2019
25.50123919C_Italian_N:R16:Antonio_2019
25.51030968Hungary_1180BC:BR2:Gamba_2014
25.82338862Minoan:Lasithi:I9005:Lazaridis_2017
25.93733602Minoan:Odigitria:I9130:Lazaridis_2017
26.23348242C_Italian_ChL:R4:Antonio_2019
26.47724306Hallstatt:Czechia_I14983
26.59358381Minoan:Lasithi:I0074:Lazaridis_2017
26.83175730Hallstatt:Czechia_I13781
26.97469740Minoan:Odigitria:I9131:Lazaridis_2017
27.44410319Minoan:Lasithi:I0071:Lazaridis_2017
27.86807492Hallstatt:Czechia_I16088
28.00880040Minoan:petras_EBA:pta08:Clemente_2021
28.02387018Anatolian_BA:I2495:Lazaridis_2017
28.32850861Anatolian_BA:I2499:Lazaridis_2017
29.00443587Hallstatt:Hungary_I16327

The admixture ones are better.

Target: Angela
Distance: 1.4769% / 1.47694267 | ADC: 0.25x RC
47.0Hallstatt
34.7C_Italian_N
18.3Anatolian_BA


Target: Angela
Distance: 0.1964% / 0.19642384
31.1Minoan
18.9C_Italian_ChL
11.4Yamnaya
11.0C_Italian_N
9.2Hallstatt
6.3Corded_Ware
6.0Hungary_1180BC
3.5Remedello
2.5Nordic_BA
0.1Sintashta

Without the admixed steppe groups known to have come to my area, the Italian Neolithic shows up more.
Distance to:Angela
2.9836472049.80% Hallstatt:Czechia_I13781 + 50.20% Minoan:Lasithi:I0074:Lazaridis_2017
3.1252284249.60% Hallstatt:Czechia_I15071 + 50.40% Minoan:Odigitria:I9129:Lazaridis_2017
3.3332839238.60% Halberstadt_LBA:I0099_HAL36C:Haak_2015 + 61.40% Minoan:Odigitria:I9129:Lazaridis_2017
3.4607012627.00% Yamnaya:RISE550:Allentoft_2015 + 73.00% C_Italian_N:R18:Antonio_2019
3.4745817247.60% Hallstatt:Czechia_I14983 + 52.40% Minoan:Odigitria:I9129:Lazaridis_2017
3.5131704133.40% Sintashta:RISE386:Allentoft_2015 + 66.60% C_Italian_N:R18:Antonio_2019
3.5159367252.00% Hallstatt:Czechia_I15071 + 48.00% Minoan:Lasithi:I0074:Lazaridis_2017
3.7454996150.60% Hallstatt:Czechia_I13781 + 49.40% Minoan:Lasithi:I0071:Lazaridis_2017
3.7455271248.80% Hallstatt:Czechia_I16088 + 51.20% Minoan:Lasithi:I0074:Lazaridis_2017
3.7482112525.40% Yamnaya:RISE546:Allentoft_2015 + 74.60% C_Italian_N:R18:Antonio_2019
3.8657830928.80% Corded_Ware:RISE1:Allentoft_2015 + 71.20% C_Italian_N:R18:Antonio_2019
3.8802817625.60% Yamnaya:RISE546:Allentoft_2015 + 74.40% C_Italian_N:R19:Antonio_2019
3.9006177831.00% Corded_Ware:RISE434:Allentoft_2015 + 69.00% C_Italian_N:R18:Antonio_2019
3.9244030147.80% Hallstatt:Hungary_I16327 + 52.20% Minoan:Lasithi:I0074:Lazaridis_2017
3.9445300447.20% Hallstatt:Czechia_I13781 + 52.80% Minoan:Odigitria:I9129:Lazaridis_2017
3.9477749433.00% Sintashta:RISE392:Allentoft_2015 + 67.00% Minoan:Odigitria:I9129:Lazaridis_2017
3.9565824133.80% Sintashta:RISE395:Allentoft_2015 + 66.20% Minoan:Odigitria:I9129:Lazaridis_2017
3.9836058825.20% Yamnaya:RISE546:Allentoft_2015 + 74.80% C_Italian_N:R3:Antonio_2019
4.0386195051.40% Hallstatt:Czechia_I15071 + 48.60% Minoan:Odigitria:I9130:Lazaridis_2017
4.1113889052.80% Hallstatt:Czechia_I15071 + 47.20% Minoan:Lasithi:I0071:Lazaridis_2017
4.1134426627.20% Yamnaya:RISE547:Allentoft_2015 + 72.80% C_Italian_N:R18:Antonio_2019
4.1372823326.60% Yamnaya:RISE240:Allentoft_2015 + 73.40% C_Italian_N:R18:Antonio_2019
4.2682740626.20% Yamnaya:I3141:Mathieson_2018 + 73.80% C_Italian_N:R18:Antonio_2019
4.2717375832.40% Sintashta:RISE394:Allentoft_2015 + 67.60% Minoan:Odigitria:I9129:Lazaridis_2017
4.3031398649.60% Hallstatt:Czechia_I16088 + 50.40% Minoan:Lasithi:I0071:Lazaridis_2017


Interesting that in this analysis the Iberomaurisian drops out of the Balkan samples. Did you remove some samples from the Balkan set?

I have noticed that Beaker_Central_Europe, Olalde 2018, greatly improves the fit of other populations, stealing significant amounts of Corded_Ware from many others, including Baltic and Finnish populations, when it comes to modeling using modern Vahaduo Dodecad K12b populations updated spreadsheet as target. Also Lá Tène works better than Hallstatt in many other cases.

PS: Balkan populations also work well, including Bul8 included in Mathieson's paper admix charts and whose mix is ​​virtually identical to Bul10 and Bul6, (In the three we can see the same pops and non-significant differences between the %s of these pops).
 
I am not sure how people with "mixed" ancestry, like English and Calabrian could come out in the calculator. It might be throwing it off in your case.

Something is amiss, as my mother is 33% Nordic_BA, and I score none. And she is 19.3 Sintashta, and I have only 2.1.

So my Calabrian father may in fact have a lot more Minoan than me.

It's all rather counter intuitive.

Why do the tests not work for a "mixed" European background?

And what is the connection between Nordic_BA and Ireland? If Nordic Bronze Age was 1750 to 500 BC, shouldn't it already have been very "German" by this point?
 
Something is amiss, as my mother is 33% Nordic_BA, and I score none. And she is 19.3 Sintashta, and I have only 2.1.

So my Calabrian father may in fact have a lot more Minoan than me.

It's all rather counter intuitive.

Why do the tests not work for a "mixed" European background?

And what is the connection between Nordic_BA and Ireland? If Nordic Bronze Age was 1750 to 500 BC, shouldn't it already have been very "German" by this point?

Malaparte: I am not sure it is amiss. My take on what "could be going one" (emphasis on could) relates to the random recombination of genes each time a parent has a child. While I can't derive the mathematical calculations (beyond my math level, stopped at Differential/Integral Calculus in College) and thus explain them well (somebody here I am sure can), think about the average DNA you would share with a 1st cousin (full one), it is about 12.5%, but the range could be higher or lower. 23 and Me documents the range can be from 7.5% to about 14%, so not a perfect normal distribution here but still it gives you and idea of the range and how the genetic recombination can produce a nice range of shared DNA for full 1st cousins.

So while you both share the same two grandparents, you have different Mothers or Fathers and you get half your DNA from each, but obviously there is DNA that you got from your parent, who got it from the same two grandparents and there is is DNA your full first cousin got from their parent, who got it from the same two grandparents, but you and your first cousin did not inherit the same genes from the two grandparents hence the range for full 1st cousins can be 7.5% to about 14%.

In the same way, your Mother or Father and her/his sibling did not inherit the same from their parents as Full siblings on average share about 50% DNA, but even then according to 23 and Me, that range can be from 38% to 61%. The differences in ranges is due to the random recombination of genes from each parent when they have children and pass it down to their children. The only 2 siblings that get the same exact DNA from their parents are of course Identical twins.

I think the models that Jovialis produced, with assist from Duarte (adding the Yamnaya) is at least for peoples of European background that have all their ancestors from one country (and area within that country) are very accurate.

Anyway, my take on it. Welcome any corrections, suggestions or further elaboration.

Cheers
 
I have noticed that Beaker_Central_Europe, Olalde 2018, greatly improves the fit of other populations, stealing significant amounts of Corded_Ware from many others, including Baltic and Finnish populations, when it comes to modeling using modern Vahaduo Dodecad K12b populations updated spreadsheet as target. Also Lá Tène works better than Hallstatt in many other cases.

PS: Balkan populations also work well, including Bul8 included in Mathieson's paper admix charts and whose mix is ​​virtually identical to Bul10 and Bul6, (In the three we can see the same pops and non-significant differences between the %s of these pops).

I don't think the genetic mix was precisely the same for Hallstatt and LaTene. At least for northwestern Italy the signal seems to be closer to La Tene than Hallstatt, although perhaps part of that is that it is more recent and thus absorbs whatever steppe admixed group was already present in the Ligures and Italics/Etruscans.

We don't have Ligures but we do have Italics/Eruscans. It would be interesting to see what steppe admixed groups they prefer.

As for Nordic Bronze Age, I think there may be quite a bit of overlap between all the steppe admixed groups in North/Central and western Europe. Only when it is present along with La Tene do you see the split.

For example, on some of these runs the French come out with very high Nordic Bronze Age. Yet, IBD analyses show a very limited input into the French from the post Roman Era Germanics.
 
@Palermo Trapani -- on the commercial Ancestry.com test my autosomal results agree with "intuition," i.e., my percentage of a given ancestral component is usually half of my mother's percentage. So I score 29% Irish. Rather, it's on the calculators for ancient components that the results seem unreliable.
 
I don't think the genetic mix was precisely the same for Hallstatt and LaTene. At least for northwestern Italy the signal seems to be closer to La Tene than Hallstatt, although perhaps part of that is that it is more recent and thus absorbs whatever steppe admixed group was already present in the Ligures and Italics/Etruscans.

We don't have Ligures but we do have Italics/Eruscans. It would be interesting to see what steppe admixed groups they prefer.

As for Nordic Bronze Age, I think there may be quite a bit of overlap between all the steppe admixed groups in North/Central and western Europe. Only when it is present along with La Tene do you see the split.

For example, on some of these runs the French come out with very high Nordic Bronze Age. Yet, IBD analyses show a very limited input into the French from the post Roman Era Germanics.

Yes Angela, I agree with you. And, in fact, as @Palermo Trapani pointed out, considering only the typical modern populations of the selected European regions as target using the same select group of ancient populations as a source, as magnificently done by Jovialis, an excellent fit is achieved for all of them, what is fascinating. In my case, an Iberian descendant of Portuguese, Andalusian and Galician immigrants that admixtures themselves in America and who has an uncertain genetic input from unknown and ancient slaves brought to America, the fit only improves by adding other populations, such as Beaker_Central_Europe, Beaker_Iberia, Scotland_CA_EBA, Bulgaria_EBA , Anatolian_N. I could try to speculate with the merchant exchanges in the Atlantic Bronze Age that approximate the western Beaker populations, including Scotland_CA_EBA, or the greater proximity of Neolithic and Early Bronze Age Bulgarians to Neolithic Anatolian and Neolithic Iberian farmers, rather than the Bronze Age Minoans, as Mathieson infers but, in fact, I would never be a good reference for not being a typical European with all the typical ancestors of a specific region.

qzXzAAr.jpg
 
Yes Angela, I agree with you. And, in fact, as @Palermo Trapani pointed out, considering only the typical modern populations of the selected European regions as target using the same select group of ancient populations as a source, as magnificently done by Jovialis, an excellent fit is achieved for all of them, what is fascinating. In my case, an Iberian descendant of Portuguese, Andalusian and Galician immigrants that admixtures themselves in America and who has an uncertain genetic input from unknown and ancient slaves brought to America, the fit only improves by adding other populations, such as Beaker_Central_Europe, Beaker_Iberia, Scotland_CA_EBA, Bulgaria_EBA , Anatolian_N. I could try to speculate with the merchant exchanges in the Atlantic Bronze Age that approximate the western Beaker populations, including Scotland_CA_EBA, or the greater proximity of Neolithic and Early Bronze Age Bulgarians to Neolithic Anatolian and Neolithic Iberian farmers, rather than the Bronze Age Minoans, as Mathieson infers but, in fact, I would never be a good reference for not being a typical European with all the typical ancestors of a specific region.

qzXzAAr.jpg

You might want to take a look at the last post I added to the thread on Patterson's new paper about using DATES. They do some admixture analyses using f statistics, and if I'm understanding him clearly, he makes the extraordinary claim that the Central European Beakers had no genetic impact on Iberia.

My question there and here is where then did the small amount of steppe they find up to about 300 B.C. come from, if it didn't traverse central Europe, and did more steppe come with migration after 300 B.C.
 
You might want to take a look at the last post I added to the thread on Patterson's new paper about using DATES. They do some admixture analyses using f statistics, and if I'm understanding him clearly, he makes the extraordinary claim that the Central European Beakers had no genetic impact on Iberia.

My question there and here is where then did the small amount of steppe they find up to about 300 B.C. come from, if it didn't traverse central Europe, and did more steppe come with migration after 300 B.C.

Thanks Angela. I will see there carefully. The Beaker Central is the main in my single distances.

PS:

Distance to:Duarte
9.38223321Beaker_Central_Europe:I6534:Olalde_2018
10.02652482Beaker_Central_Europe:I6581:Olalde_2018
11.86776306Beaker_Central_Europe:I7044:Olalde_2018
12.09549916Beaker_Central_Europe:I5022:Olalde_2018
12.63142114Beaker_Iberia:I6539:Olalde_2018
12.92599706Beaker_Central_Europe:I2364:Olalde_2018
13.09382679Beaker_Central_Europe:E09538:Olalde_2018
13.16359753Beaker_Central_Europe:I4252:Olalde_2018
13.57537845Beaker_Central_Europe:I4890:Olalde_2018
13.99991786Beaker_Central_Europe:I3588:Olalde_2018
14.25930573Beaker_Central_Europe:I4885:Olalde_2018
14.83662024Beaker_Central_Europe:I3604:Olalde_2018
14.87106587Bulgaria_EBA:I2176:Mathieson_2018
14.99458902Beaker_Central_Europe:I3597:Olalde_2018
15.01998003Beaker_Central_Europe:I5835:Olalde_2018
15.72866491Beaker_Iberia:I5665:Olalde_2018
15.83431085Beaker_Iberia:I6472:Olalde_2018
16.00390577Beaker_Central_Europe:I5529:Olalde_2018
16.07419360Beaker_Central_Europe:I7289:Olalde_2018
16.42045066Bulgaria_EBA:Bul10:Mathieson_2018
16.50050908Beaker_Central_Europe:I4887:Olalde_2018
16.69155775Bulgaria_EBA:I2175:Mathieson_2018
17.63567124Beaker_Central_Europe:I5660:Olalde_2018
17.84517302Bulgaria_EBA:Bul8:Mathieson_2018
18.02754004Hallstatt:Czechia_I15071

And changed a little when I include La Tène:

Distance to:Duarte
9.38223321Beaker_Central_Europe:I6534:Olalde_2018
10.02652482Beaker_Central_Europe:I6581:Olalde_2018
11.37948593La_Tène:Czechia_I17323
11.72041382La_Tène:Czechia_I15042
11.86776306Beaker_Central_Europe:I7044:Olalde_2018
11.98845695La_Tène:Austria_I11699
12.09549916Beaker_Central_Europe:I5022:Olalde_2018
12.33060420La_Tène:Austria_I11701
12.46518752La_Tène:Czechia_I15954
12.49054042La_Tène:Czechia_I17143
12.63142114Beaker_Iberia:I6539:Olalde_2018
12.68483741La_Tène:Hungary_I18489
12.92599706Beaker_Central_Europe:I2364:Olalde_2018
13.09382679Beaker_Central_Europe:E09538:Olalde_2018
13.16359753Beaker_Central_Europe:I4252:Olalde_2018
13.43583269La_Tène:Czechia_I17146
13.49251274La_Tène:Czechia_I17139
13.57537845Beaker_Central_Europe:I4890:Olalde_2018
13.61506886La_Tène:Czechia_I15952
13.76384031La_Tène:Czechia_I16271
13.87161130La_Tène:Czechia_I14986
13.99991786Beaker_Central_Europe:I3588:Olalde_2018
14.01329726La_Tène:Czechia_I15046
14.25930573Beaker_Central_Europe:I4885:Olalde_2018
14.39266480La_Tène:Austria_I11708
 
@Palermo Trapani -- on the commercial Ancestry.com test my autosomal results agree with "intuition," i.e., my percentage of a given ancestral component is usually half of my mother's percentage. So I score 29% Irish. Rather, it's on the calculators for ancient components that the results seem unreliable.

Ok, got it. Well it could be the source populations in the models do not work maybe for folks with Irish ancestry. Is there a component in the model that is capturing English and or Scottish ancestry, that could be highly correlated with Irish ancestry thus the model can't correctly measure or distinguish say Irish, from Scottish or English, etc. Yes I recognize each of those groups have cultural differences, the Irish historically loyal to the Bishop of Rome, the Scotts more Calvinist and English more Anglican Church of England, for example.

Just some thoughts to maybe consider. Thanks for the response, Cheers.
 
You might want to take a look at the last post I added to the thread on Patterson's new paper about using DATES. They do some admixture analyses using f statistics, and if I'm understanding him clearly, he makes the extraordinary claim that the Central European Beakers had no genetic impact on Iberia.

My question there and here is where then did the small amount of steppe they find up to about 300 B.C. come from, if it didn't traverse central Europe, and did more steppe come with migration after 300 B.C.

They're not usually sloppy with language but they were in this instance.

This is what they meant:

"We find the earliest evidence of Steppe pastoralist-related ancestry569 in Iberia around 3200 BCE, though this ancestry only becomes widespread after 2,500 BCE."
 

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