A Transient Pulse of Genetic Admixture from the Crusaders

The mixed ones? Maybe so but I guess that's because you see it in Gedmatch's oracles

Actually I wrote that before I uploaded them to GEDmatch, so I didn't know their results.

I wrote that based on what other members suggested that they could be from Southern France.

But you are right, the study says they were mixed of European + local Holy Land ancestry.

PS:

They are also already in the Global25 (Eurogenes).
 
I'm a direct male descendant of the crusaders. Specifically Roger de Barnesville. They were Normans. Whom Tasso wrote songs of praise about my guy specially. He was killed in combat. My current working theory with the help of others is that my J2a were originally Alans hired by the Romans and later settled in Southern France. Exactly where my paper trail ends about 1,000 years ago.
I wouldn't be surprised if many of the Crusaders had Sarmations and Alans included. Many would argue that the Chivalry/Knights/Arthur legends actually stemmed from these peoples.
There's a man from Latakia Syria with my exact J2a1h2a1 etc... haplogroup. Makes you wonder if my crusader ancestor didn't have children when he was there.

Theoretically speaking, Roger de Barneville might have had Levant ancestry. Did your match and you do research in order to determine whether the Syrian branch was prior or arose during the Crusades, e.g. with BigY on yfull?
 
PCA with Crusader SI39, Crusader SI40, Crusader SI47, Crusader SI41, Crusader SI53 on Eurogenes K15


8Z6F5J0.jpg
 
PCA with Crusader SI39, Crusader SI40, Crusader SI47, Crusader SI41, Crusader SI53 on Eurogenes K15

Elucidating, we've five Europeans (2 Germans, Spaniard and 2 Mediterraneans). Let me guess, you are going to show us that the Near Easterners were Christian Armenians? No admixtures?
 
Elucidating, we've five Europeans (2 Germans, Spaniard and 2 Mediterraneans). Let me guess, you are going to show us that the Near Easterners were Christian Armenians? No admixtures?

What are you talking about? Have you at least read the study? It seems not.
 
one of the sidon medieval remains SI-38 was E-L677 } i think it is E-V22
cool :)
 
What are you talking about? Have you at least read the study? It seems not.

Excuse me for being imprecise in my (supportive) reaction. I read from your analysis that five samples from the pit could be considered as European, although some are put in an admixed group in the paper. I just wondered whether additional observations could be made regarding the samples from the pit which were classified as near eastern.
 
Last edited:
They seem very close to modern Lebanese, so it might not be very likely. Did anyone run them?

41 is odd. Halfway between the Portuguese and Northern Italians? Did we really get a stray Corsican? Or maybe the other analysis is correct, and he was southeastern Iberian, maybe Baleares?

I still don't see an actual explanation that works for why the WHG in modern Levantines is from the Ottomans.

I'm not very impressed, I must say.

In one way, some of the reactions are pretty funny. Of course number 53 is southern Italian; after all, he's half Levantine! Except, he was probably Greek. :)
 
I'm kind of late to the discussion. Did the researchers provide informtation on the SNPs, so that the terminal SNPs could be discovered on any of these individuals? In particular, I was wondering if anyone knew how to figure out the terminal SNP of the DF27 individual, thought to be from Iberia.
 
Hello, I became interested in SI-41 since he was listed as 97% sample match with a genetic distance of 15.396 and is listed as DF-27. I am DF-27 (which could be the only thing connecting us) but come from Scottish ancestry, so I'm not so sure why he is listed as Iberian. I Gedmatch in Eurogenes 13 as Northern Italian with a single population sharing. Mixed mode is Italian Abruzzo (my mother) and Orcadian ('Scottish' my father). Just saying that DF27 is not strictly Iberian by the thirteenth century. You are all light years ahead of me with this, but just suggesting.
 
Hello, I became interested in SI-41 since he was listed as 97% sample match with a genetic distance of 15.396 and is listed as DF-27. I am DF-27 (which could be the only thing connecting us) but come from Scottish ancestry, so I'm not so sure why he is listed as Iberian. I Gedmatch in Eurogenes 13 as Northern Italian with a single population sharing. Mixed mode is Italian Abruzzo (my mother) and Orcadian ('Scottish' my father). Just saying that DF27 is not strictly Iberian by the thirteenth century. You are all light years ahead of me with this, but just suggesting.

Hello, I have correspondence with this crusader.

35. Crusader Knight French / Lebanon (1250 AD) ..... 14.61
- SI-40
Top 98%

mtDNA: U5a1g
Y-DNA: R-P311

Modern Group
1. Southwest_French (9.072)

2. Spanish_Aragon (10.55)
3. Spanish_Valencia (11.45)
4. Spanish_Cantabria (11.72)
5. Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha (12.31)
6. Spanish_Andalucia (12.80)
7. Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon (12.92)
8. French_Basque (13.15)

Similar Samples
Boscombe Bowmen Amesbury (2300 BC) (9.112)
Iron Age Catalan (620 BC) (10.9)
Roman-Carthago Mix Iberia (80 AD) (10.92)
Vascones Tribe Vasconia (280 BC) (11.31)
Ilergetes Tribe Catalan (200 BC) (11.86)

This would be the Iberian crusader as you say. You can see yours Si40 located to the right, look at the graph.
 
Anyone know of any recent books on the economy of the Medieval Era, Middle Ages, whatever you want to call it. Ive read everything by Miskimin and Spufford, but I was wondering if there was anything more recent, as in not from the 60s.
Not. But you will write its!
Is your transistor spinning?
 
SI 53 does seem to have high West Asian and low Red Sea so if we're ruling out a Southern Italian or Greek then could we be looking at someone of mixed Euro/Caucasus heritage rather than Lebanese.
 
I think SI-53 is in fact a Southern Italian, he can be modeled very well with the C6 Mediterranean cluster from Antonio M et al. 2019. Even Isolf Lazaridis agrees that SI-53 falls into the modern and ancient European source population continuum.

I have a very close affinity to SI-53.

SI-41, is indeed an admixed individual, however.

ngMs9sP.png


rqUZ928.png


Furthermore, according to the admixture chart in the study, SI-53 has far too little Levant_N to be a mix between Hungarians, and Lebanese, IMO.
 
I think SI-53 is in fact a Southern Italian, he can be modeled very well with the C6 Mediterranean cluster from Antonio M et al. 2019. Even Isolf Lazaridis agrees that SI-53 falls into the modern and ancient European source population continuum.

I have a very close affinity to SI-53.

SI-41, is indeed an admixed individual, however.

ngMs9sP.png


rqUZ928.png


Furthermore, according to the admixture chart in the study, SI-53 has far too little Levant_N to be a mix between Hungarians, and Lebanese, IMO.

SI-53's top matches are with Mediterranean-stock Romans, C6:

G664QgT.png


o1xvgxG.png
 
My Greek friend that I have posted before, a mix of islander+mainlander.He seems to be quite close to SI-53

G25
Code:
[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]Chris_scaled[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #78FF00, align: right"]0.02345751[/TD]
[TD]IND_Roopkund_B:I3404[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #8EFF00, align: right"]0.02776688[/TD]
[TD]Levant_LBN_MA_o4:SI-53[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #92FF00, align: right"]0.02853196[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_Late_Antiquity:RMPR136[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #9CFF00, align: right"]0.03053033[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_Imperial:RMPR49[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #9DFF00, align: right"]0.03074305[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Tivoli_Renaissance:RMPR969[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #9DFF00, align: right"]0.03080654[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_MA:RMPR64[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #9DFF00, align: right"]0.03081268[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_Imperial:RMPR835[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #9DFF00, align: right"]0.03084855[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_MA:RMPR57[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #9EFF00, align: right"]0.03094529[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_Late_Antiquity:RMPR117[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #A0FF00, align: right"]0.03138511[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Tivoli_Renaissance:RMPR973[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #A0FF00, align: right"]0.03144237[/TD]
[TD]IND_Roopkund_B:I2869[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #A1FF00, align: right"]0.03161758[/TD]
[TD]VK2020_ITA_Foggia_MA:VK534[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #A2FF00, align: right"]0.03183653[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_MA:RMPR56[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #A2FF00, align: right"]0.03185663[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_MA:RMPR54[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #A5FF00, align: right"]0.03227941[/TD]
[TD]VK2020_ITA_Foggia_MA:VK537[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #A6FF00, align: right"]0.03248507[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_MA:RMPR1290[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #A8FF00, align: right"]0.03294157[/TD]
[TD]IND_Roopkund_B:I3405[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #A9FF00, align: right"]0.03319056[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_Late_Antiquity:RMPR36[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #A9FF00, align: right"]0.03319961[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_MA:RMPR65[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #AFFF00, align: right"]0.03424201[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_Late_Antiquity:RMPR35[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #AFFF00, align: right"]0.03424486[/TD]
[TD]IND_Roopkund_B:I6936[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #AFFF00, align: right"]0.03425950[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_Late_Antiquity:RMPR121[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #B3FF00, align: right"]0.03501539[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Tivoli_Renaissance:RMPR970[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #B3FF00, align: right"]0.03511035[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_Late_Antiquity:RMPR137[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #B5FF00, align: right"]0.03540495[/TD]
[TD]ITA_Rome_Imperial:RMPR131[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Dodecad K12b
Distance to:Chris
4.28588381CrusaderKnightApuliaAbruzzoLebanonCrusaderSI53
4.63219171R57_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
5.05022772R973_Medieval_Era_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti
5.34406213R54_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
5.56840193R53_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
5.62346868R436_Imperial_Era_Palestrina
5.64285389R49_Imperial_Era_Centocelle_Necropolis
5.82512661R1544_Imperial_Era_Necropolis_of_Monte_Agnese
6.12218915R64_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
6.14947152R58_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
6.29856333R65_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
6.30786018R836_Imperial_Era_Civitanova_Marche
6.48573049R136_Imperial_Era_Marcellino_&_Pietro
6.92205172R59_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
6.97249597Collegno110
6.99639907R1290_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
7.29782844R122_Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia
7.37931569R114_Imperial_Era_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis
7.43180328R60_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
7.45076506R56_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
7.91697543R69_Imperial_Era_ANAS
8.10577572R969_Medieval_Era_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti
8.11352574R970_Medieval_Era_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti
8.19114766R35_Late_Antiquity_Celio
8.21347673R32_Late_Antiquity_Mausole_di_Augusto
Target: Chris
Distance: 1.0722% / 1.07218643 | ADC: 0.25x
59.4CrusaderKnightApuliaAbruzzoLebanonCrusaderSI53
25.8R69_Imperial_Era_ANAS
5.8R32_Late_Antiquity_Mausole_di_Augusto
4.6RISE397_Kapan_Armenia_2807_years
3.0RISE412_Noratus_Armenia_2885_years
1.4Szolad20

Dodecad K7 ancient
Code:
[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]Chris[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #5FFF00, align: right"]2.78598277[/TD]
[TD]C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R836_Civitanova_Marche[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #5FFF00, align: right"]2.79025088[/TD]
[TD]C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R973_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #69FF00, align: right"]3.07597139[/TD]
[TD]C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R54_Villa_Magna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #6EFF00, align: right"]3.23270784[/TD]
[TD]C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R57_Villa_Magna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #7BFF00, align: right"]3.61160629[/TD]
[TD]C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R49_Centocelle_Necropolis[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #82FF00, align: right"]3.83717344[/TD]
[TD]C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R64_Villa_Magna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #A2FF00, align: right"]4.77189690[/TD]
[TD]C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R47_Centocelle_Necropolis[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #A8FF00, align: right"]4.92893498[/TD]
[TD]C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R1544_Necropolis_of_Monte_Agnese[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #A9FF00, align: right"]4.97361036[/TD]
[TD]C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R436_Palestrina[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #ACFF00, align: right"]5.05517557[/TD]
[TD]C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R65_Villa_Magna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #B1FF00, align: right"]5.20894423[/TD]
[TD]C6_Late_Antiquity_Mediterranean:R117_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #BDFF00, align: right"]5.55439466[/TD]
[TD]C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R1290_Villa_Magna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #BFFF00, align: right"]5.61166642[/TD]
[TD]C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R58_Villa_Magna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #C3FF00, align: right"]5.73081146[/TD]
[TD]Foggia_MA:VK534[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #C4FF00, align: right"]5.77836482[/TD]
[TD]C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R131_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #C7FF00, align: right"]5.84485244[/TD]
[TD]C5_Late_Antiquity_Eastern_Mediterranean:R122_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #CAFF00, align: right"]5.93225927[/TD]
[TD]C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R136_Marcellino_&_Pietro[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #CDFF00, align: right"]6.02205945[/TD]
[TD]C6_Late_Antiquity_Mediterranean:R121_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #CFFF00, align: right"]6.08287761[/TD]
[TD]C5_Late_Antiquity_Eastern_Mediterranean:R32_Mausole_di_Augusto[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #CFFF00, align: right"]6.09573621[/TD]
[TD]C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R60_Villa_Magna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #D0FF00, align: right"]6.12742197[/TD]
[TD]C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R56_Villa_Magna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #D1FF00, align: right"]6.16151767[/TD]
[TD]C5_Imperial_Eastern_Mediterranean:R69_ANAS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #D4FF00, align: right"]6.23693033[/TD]
[TD]C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R835_Civitanova_Marche[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #D4FF00, align: right"]6.24185069[/TD]
[TD]C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R59_Villa_Magna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #D8FF00, align: right"]6.35823089[/TD]
[TD]C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R53_Villa_Magna[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Target: Chris
Distance: 0.7319% / 0.73190085 | ADC: 0.25x
69.2C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R836_Civitanova_Marche
16.8C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R54_Villa_Magna
13.4Armenia_ChL:I1631
0.6Yamnaya:I0441_Kurmanaevka_III_Buzuluk_Samara
 
SI53 in eurogenes k13
he cluster with italian abruzzo
i agree very likely he was somekind of central italian
( yes as mention above by matadworf his red sea % is very low and he do have some caucasus tendency ):unsure:


Kit ZX8440629

Admix Results (sorted):

#PopulationPercent
1East_Med27.77
2North_Atlantic20.57
3West_Asian19.69
4West_Med17.03
5Baltic9.63
6Red_Sea2.54
7South_Asian2.24
8Oceanian0.53

Single Population Sharing:

#Population (source)Distance
1Italian_Abruzzo6.02
2Central_Greek7.11
3East_Sicilian8.55
4South_Italian9.27
5West_Sicilian9.93
6Greek_Thessaly9.98
7Ashkenazi11.73
8Tuscan13.08
9Sephardic_Jewish14.39
10Italian_Jewish15.37
11Bulgarian16.04
12Algerian_Jewish16.37
13Turkish17.37
14Romanian17.59
15North_Italian18.21
16Tunisian_Jewish18.47
17Cyprian19.23
18Libyan_Jewish19.25
19Lebanese_Muslim20.81
20Serbian21.66

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

#Primary Population (source)Secondary Population (source)Distance
185.5%Italian_Abruzzo+14.5%Lezgin@2.93
285.9%Italian_Abruzzo+14.1%Tabassaran@3.09
383.3%Italian_Abruzzo+16.7%Kumyk@3.17
 

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