K12b aDNA (Dodecad K12b)

my results from post 266

Distance to: Torziok12b
2.58453091 Croatia_Osijek:I26751__200-300CE_mt_H79
3.93648320 Croatia_Osijek:I26750__200-300CE_mt_H5d
4.52366002 Croatia_Zadar:I26776__200-400CE_mt_H105_y_R-DF13
5.06436571 Croatia_Sipar:I26765__650-800CE_mt_U8b1b1_y_G-Y7538
5.35203700 Croatia_SisakPogorelec:I28448__300-450CE_mt_H13b1b
5.57658498 Croatia_Osijek:I26754__200-300CE_mt_H41
5.62080065 Serbia_TimacumSlog:I15552__380-410CE_mt_H1c_y_R-CTS1450
5.76347985 Serbia_Kormadin:I27298__450-550CE_mt_T1a1
5.78746922 Croatia_Sipar:I26767__500-700CE_mt_K1a19_y_G-Z6494
6.54110082 Serbia_ViminaciumPirivoj:I15514__200-300CE_mt_U4a2a
7.08661414 Croatia_Nustar:I28393__700-900CE_mt_J1c2
7.47066262 Croatia_SisakPogorelec:I26763__300-450CE_mt_H1e6_y_R-L617
7.53341224 Croatia_Sipar:I26766__650-800CE_mt_HV1a'b'c_y_R-YP4966
7.55854483 Croatia_TrogirDragulin:I26703__1-200CE_mt_T1a5a
7.68521958 Serbia_TimacumSlog:I15548__380-410CE_mt_W+194_y_J-Z1043
7.77034105 Croatia_Brekinjova:I26749__774-885calCE_mt_W3b_y_J-Y4349
8.15001227 Croatia_Osijek:I26752__200-300CE_mt_K1b1a1a_y_J-Y23094
8.29446804 Serbia_TimacumSlog:I15546__380-410CE_mt_L2a1+143+16189_y_J-Z597
8.66826972 Croatia_Nustar:I28397__700-900CE_mt_J1c1b1a_y_J-Z1043
9.48326948 Croatia_Nustar:I28400__700-900CE_mt_H14b2_y_Q-YP844
9.53386071 Croatia_TrogirDragulin:I26705__1-200CE_mt_C1
9.95378320 Serbia_ViminaciumGrobalja:I15521__130-237calCE_mt_H_y_G-CTS342
9.96101902 Croatia_SisakPogorelec:I28447__300-450CE_mt_T2c1d1
10.64738466 Croatia_Nustar:I28398__700-900CE_mt_K1a4j
10.73142581 Croatia_SisakPogorelec:I26762__300-450CE_mt_N1a2
 
Post 266

Distance to:Dorquest
6.71899546Serbia_Kormadin:I27295__450-550CE_mt_V7
7.54149189Croatia_TrogirDobric:I26719__100-400CE_mt_H27a
10.51598307Croatia_Gornji:I35012__1161-1264calCE_mt_U5b2a1a1_y_R-YP971
10.55549146Serbia_Mediana:I15549__259-409calCE_mt_H5b_y_I-Z141
10.62777964Croatia_Cepinski:I35081__650-870CE_mt_U4a3a
11.42666618CEE_EarlyMedieval:I4137__660-774calCE_mt_H1af2
12.13348260Croatia_Gornji:I34980__1100-1400CE_mt_U5b2a1a1
12.19890159Serbia_TimacumKuline:I15538twins15539__892-989calCE_mt_H1e1a6_y_R-DF99
12.71547876Serbia_ViminaciumPecine:I15527__70-208calCE_mt_H30b1_y_R-U106
12.96316705Serbia_TimacumKuline:I15537__800-1000CE_mt_H13a2a_y_E-Y3762
13.76603429Serbia_ViminaciumGrobalja:I15522__200-300CE_mt_H
13.92714615Serbia_Gomolava:I1116__775-994calCE_mt_T2f_y_I-Y5596
13.94609623Croatia_TrogirDragulin:I26705__1-200CE_mt_C1
14.04681459Croatia_SisakPogorelec:I28446__300-450CE_mt_H+16311
14.13721330Serbia_ViminaciumGrobalja:I15520__207-326calCE_mt_U5b2b_y_R-Z2123
14.45774879Croatia_Gornji:I35095__1000-1200CE_mt_U3a1
14.59340262Serbia_ViminaciumPirivoj:I15516__127-233calCE_mt_H13a1a1_y_G-P303
14.96973614CEE_EarlyMedieval:I15232__773-890calCE_mt_U4d2_y_R-Y4135
14.99780651Croatia_Gornji:I35010__1000-1200CE_mt_U5b1f
15.15526311Croatia_Osijek:I26752__200-300CE_mt_K1b1a1a_y_J-Y23094
15.33446119Serbia_TimacumSlog:I15552__380-410CE_mt_H1c_y_R-CTS1450
16.02306775Serbia_ViminaciumSvetinja_I32299__1100-1300CE_mt_T1a1_y_I-CTS10228:
16.05716974Serbia_ViminaciumPirivoj:I15514__200-300CE_mt_U4a2a
16.25900366Serbia_ViminaciumSvetinja_I32300__1100-1300CE_mt_K1c1:
16.40128044CEE_EarlyMedieval:I4803__708-884calCE_mt_H3_y_R-S6285


Data set post 273:

Distance to:Serbia_Kormadin:I27295__450-550CE_mt_V7
3.47305341Ukraine_IronAge_Scythian_imputed:scy010
3.66338641Ukraine_IronAge_Chernyakhiv_imputed:MJ-37
4.14395946Denmark_VikingAge_imputed:VK274
4.74128675Hungary_Medieval_Langobard_imputed:SZ11
4.90632245Germany_Medieval_imputed:STR486
5.22118760Hungary_IronAge_Scythian_imputed:DA197
5.27438148Germany_Medieval_imputed:STR220c
5.91552195Denmark_VikingAge_imputed:VK315
6.13557658Sweden_VikingAge_imputed:VK30
6.27678262Sweden_VikingAge_imputed:VK468
6.52463792Denmark_VikingAge_imputed:VK362
6.60981089Iceland_VikingAge_imputed:VK101
6.65985736Russia_VikingAge_imputed:VK254
6.87219033Denmark_VikingAge_imputed:VK301
7.00603311Italy_Roman_Medieval-C7_imputed:R1286
7.07258086Slovakia_IronAge_imputed:DA119
7.10266851Italy_Roman_Medieval-C7_imputed:R1219
7.17162464Iceland_VikingAge_imputed:VDP-A-6
7.28565714Denmark_VikingAge_imputed:VK278
7.35004082Italy_Roman_Medieval-C7_imputed:R1288
7.47131849Sweden_VikingAge_imputed:VK346
7.47414209Lebanon_Medieval_imputed:ERS3189350
7.60557690Italy_Roman_LateAntiquity-C7_imputed:R106
7.62099731Hungary_Medieval_Langobard_imputed:SZ15
7.63348544Ukraine_IronAge_Scythian_imputed:scy009
 

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I am surprised at the closeness between Italians and Croatians samples. What is the explanation? Western Balkanites migrating to Italy during the Slav migrations or maybe pre-slavic inhabitants in Croatia were close to Italians and were not autosomally affected by the Slavs, they just adopted the language? Do we have historical facts that support either theory?
These could be either pre/protohistoric common ancestry between the ancient Italic peoples and those who would later generically become Illyrians (perhaps both derived from earlier groups to be found in the central-eastern area of the Urn Fields), or displacements and flows from the roman, medieval, and early modern periods. One thing does not exclude the other, and the Adriatic Sea is anything but a barrier
 
Pax Augusta correctly points out to me that the similarity refers mainly to modern Italians and northern Balkans of the Bronze and Iron Age. So I partially correct my assumption, and at this point I would say that some more recent demographic and migratory phenomena are more likely to be called into question. My major suspicions, for now, point to the massive replenishment of the middle and late imperial Roman army with Balkan soldiers, the flight of these same provincials to Italy following military unrest and invasions that pressed the empire on the Danubian front, the assimilation of additional provincial elements from those regions among the Goths and Lombards, and the Byzantine military operations themselves (which often recruited from the same basins). The policies of Venice, the Black Death, and Ottoman pressure on the Balkans maybe did the rest.
 
Pax Augusta correctly points out to me that the similarity refers mainly to modern Italians and northern Balkans of the Bronze and Iron Age. So I partially correct my assumption, and at this point I would say that some more recent demographic and migratory phenomena are more likely to be called into question. My major suspicions, for now, point to the massive replenishment of the middle and late imperial Roman army with Balkan soldiers, the flight of these same provincials to Italy following military unrest and invasions that pressed the empire on the Danubian front, the assimilation of additional provincial elements from those regions among the Goths and Lombards, and the Byzantine military operations themselves (which often recruited from the same basins). The policies of Venice, the Black Death, and Ottoman pressure on the Balkans maybe did the rest.
I was quite partial to Vitruvius explanation actually, whose theory makes quite a lot of sense to me.

He posits an ancestral northern Adriatic - Carpathian basin common origin for northern Balkans peoples and ancient northern Italic peoples, as evidenced by ancient DNA and archeological data. After the Slavic invasions, however, such genetic continuum between northern Italy and the northern Balkans was lost.
 

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