K12b aDNA (Dodecad K12b)

[Jovialis]

I find this project is a great resource for re-labeling samples in the AADR dataset, which are really wonky, and sometimes wrong.

 

[torzio]

my results from post 266

Distance to: Torziok12b
2.58453091 Croatia_Osijek:I26751__200-300CE_mt_H79
3.93648320 Croatia_Osijek:I26750__200-300CE_mt_H5d
4.52366002 Croatia_Zadar:I26776__200-400CE_mt_H105_y_R-DF13
5.06436571 Croatia_Sipar:I26765__650-800CE_mt_U8b1b1_y_G-Y7538
5.35203700 Croatia_SisakPogorelec:I28448__300-450CE_mt_H13b1b
5.57658498 Croatia_Osijek:I26754__200-300CE_mt_H41
5.62080065 Serbia_TimacumSlog:I15552__380-410CE_mt_H1c_y_R-CTS1450
5.76347985 Serbia_Kormadin:I27298__450-550CE_mt_T1a1
5.78746922 Croatia_Sipar:I26767__500-700CE_mt_K1a19_y_G-Z6494
6.54110082 Serbia_ViminaciumPirivoj:I15514__200-300CE_mt_U4a2a
7.08661414 Croatia_Nustar:I28393__700-900CE_mt_J1c2
7.47066262 Croatia_SisakPogorelec:I26763__300-450CE_mt_H1e6_y_R-L617
7.53341224 Croatia_Sipar:I26766__650-800CE_mt_HV1a'b'c_y_R-YP4966
7.55854483 Croatia_TrogirDragulin:I26703__1-200CE_mt_T1a5a
7.68521958 Serbia_TimacumSlog:I15548__380-410CE_mt_W+194_y_J-Z1043
7.77034105 Croatia_Brekinjova:I26749__774-885calCE_mt_W3b_y_J-Y4349
8.15001227 Croatia_Osijek:I26752__200-300CE_mt_K1b1a1a_y_J-Y23094
8.29446804 Serbia_TimacumSlog:I15546__380-410CE_mt_L2a1+143+16189_y_J-Z597
8.66826972 Croatia_Nustar:I28397__700-900CE_mt_J1c1b1a_y_J-Z1043
9.48326948 Croatia_Nustar:I28400__700-900CE_mt_H14b2_y_Q-YP844
9.53386071 Croatia_TrogirDragulin:I26705__1-200CE_mt_C1
9.95378320 Serbia_ViminaciumGrobalja:I15521__130-237calCE_mt_H_y_G-CTS342
9.96101902 Croatia_SisakPogorelec:I28447__300-450CE_mt_T2c1d1
10.64738466 Croatia_Nustar:I28398__700-900CE_mt_K1a4j
10.73142581 Croatia_SisakPogorelec:I26762__300-450CE_mt_N1a2

 

[Dorquest]

Post 266

Distance to:	Dorquest
6.71899546	Serbia_Kormadin:I27295__450-550CE_mt_V7
7.54149189	Croatia_TrogirDobric:I26719__100-400CE_mt_H27a
10.51598307	Croatia_Gornji:I35012__1161-1264calCE_mt_U5b2a1a1_y_R-YP971
10.55549146	Serbia_Mediana:I15549__259-409calCE_mt_H5b_y_I-Z141
10.62777964	Croatia_Cepinski:I35081__650-870CE_mt_U4a3a
11.42666618	CEE_EarlyMedieval:I4137__660-774calCE_mt_H1af2
12.13348260	Croatia_Gornji:I34980__1100-1400CE_mt_U5b2a1a1
12.19890159	Serbia_TimacumKuline:I15538twins15539__892-989calCE_mt_H1e1a6_y_R-DF99
12.71547876	Serbia_ViminaciumPecine:I15527__70-208calCE_mt_H30b1_y_R-U106
12.96316705	Serbia_TimacumKuline:I15537__800-1000CE_mt_H13a2a_y_E-Y3762
13.76603429	Serbia_ViminaciumGrobalja:I15522__200-300CE_mt_H
13.92714615	Serbia_Gomolava:I1116__775-994calCE_mt_T2f_y_I-Y5596
13.94609623	Croatia_TrogirDragulin:I26705__1-200CE_mt_C1
14.04681459	Croatia_SisakPogorelec:I28446__300-450CE_mt_H+16311
14.13721330	Serbia_ViminaciumGrobalja:I15520__207-326calCE_mt_U5b2b_y_R-Z2123
14.45774879	Croatia_Gornji:I35095__1000-1200CE_mt_U3a1
14.59340262	Serbia_ViminaciumPirivoj:I15516__127-233calCE_mt_H13a1a1_y_G-P303
14.96973614	CEE_EarlyMedieval:I15232__773-890calCE_mt_U4d2_y_R-Y4135
14.99780651	Croatia_Gornji:I35010__1000-1200CE_mt_U5b1f
15.15526311	Croatia_Osijek:I26752__200-300CE_mt_K1b1a1a_y_J-Y23094
15.33446119	Serbia_TimacumSlog:I15552__380-410CE_mt_H1c_y_R-CTS1450
16.02306775	Serbia_ViminaciumSvetinja_I32299__1100-1300CE_mt_T1a1_y_I-CTS10228:
16.05716974	Serbia_ViminaciumPirivoj:I15514__200-300CE_mt_U4a2a
16.25900366	Serbia_ViminaciumSvetinja_I32300__1100-1300CE_mt_K1c1:
16.40128044	CEE_EarlyMedieval:I4803__708-884calCE_mt_H3_y_R-S6285

Data set post 273:

Distance to:	Serbia_Kormadin:I27295__450-550CE_mt_V7
3.47305341	Ukraine_IronAge_Scythian_imputed:scy010
3.66338641	Ukraine_IronAge_Chernyakhiv_imputed:MJ-37
4.14395946	Denmark_VikingAge_imputed:VK274
4.74128675	Hungary_Medieval_Langobard_imputed:SZ11
4.90632245	Germany_Medieval_imputed:STR486
5.22118760	Hungary_IronAge_Scythian_imputedA197
5.27438148	Germany_Medieval_imputed:STR220c
5.91552195	Denmark_VikingAge_imputed:VK315
6.13557658	Sweden_VikingAge_imputed:VK30
6.27678262	Sweden_VikingAge_imputed:VK468
6.52463792	Denmark_VikingAge_imputed:VK362
6.60981089	Iceland_VikingAge_imputed:VK101
6.65985736	Russia_VikingAge_imputed:VK254
6.87219033	Denmark_VikingAge_imputed:VK301
7.00603311	Italy_Roman_Medieval-C7_imputed:R1286
7.07258086	Slovakia_IronAge_imputedA119
7.10266851	Italy_Roman_Medieval-C7_imputed:R1219
7.17162464	Iceland_VikingAge_imputed:VDP-A-6
7.28565714	Denmark_VikingAge_imputed:VK278
7.35004082	Italy_Roman_Medieval-C7_imputed:R1288
7.47131849	Sweden_VikingAge_imputed:VK346
7.47414209	Lebanon_Medieval_imputed:ERS3189350
7.60557690	Italy_Roman_LateAntiquity-C7_imputed:R106
7.62099731	Hungary_Medieval_Langobard_imputed:SZ15
7.63348544	Ukraine_IronAge_Scythian_imputed:scy009

 

[qh777]

Lebanon_Medieval_imputed:ERS3189350 - Crusader?

Pretty sure he is there's one in g25 that's close to Iberians

 

[Stuvanè]

I am surprised at the closeness between Italians and Croatians samples. What is the explanation? Western Balkanites migrating to Italy during the Slav migrations or maybe pre-slavic inhabitants in Croatia were close to Italians and were not autosomally affected by the Slavs, they just adopted the language? Do we have historical facts that support either theory?

These could be either pre/protohistoric common ancestry between the ancient Italic peoples and those who would later generically become Illyrians (perhaps both derived from earlier groups to be found in the central-eastern area of the Urn Fields), or displacements and flows from the roman, medieval, and early modern periods. One thing does not exclude the other, and the Adriatic Sea is anything but a barrier

 

[Stuvanè]

Pax Augusta correctly points out to me that the similarity refers mainly to modern Italians and northern Balkans of the Bronze and Iron Age. So I partially correct my assumption, and at this point I would say that some more recent demographic and migratory phenomena are more likely to be called into question. My major suspicions, for now, point to the massive replenishment of the middle and late imperial Roman army with Balkan soldiers, the flight of these same provincials to Italy following military unrest and invasions that pressed the empire on the Danubian front, the assimilation of additional provincial elements from those regions among the Goths and Lombards, and the Byzantine military operations themselves (which often recruited from the same basins). The policies of Venice, the Black Death, and Ottoman pressure on the Balkans maybe did the rest.

 

[HereToLearn]

Pax Augusta correctly points out to me that the similarity refers mainly to modern Italians and northern Balkans of the Bronze and Iron Age. So I partially correct my assumption, and at this point I would say that some more recent demographic and migratory phenomena are more likely to be called into question. My major suspicions, for now, point to the massive replenishment of the middle and late imperial Roman army with Balkan soldiers, the flight of these same provincials to Italy following military unrest and invasions that pressed the empire on the Danubian front, the assimilation of additional provincial elements from those regions among the Goths and Lombards, and the Byzantine military operations themselves (which often recruited from the same basins). The policies of Venice, the Black Death, and Ottoman pressure on the Balkans maybe did the rest.

I was quite partial to Vitruvius explanation actually, whose theory makes quite a lot of sense to me.

He posits an ancestral northern Adriatic - Carpathian basin common origin for northern Balkans peoples and ancient northern Italic peoples, as evidenced by ancient DNA and archeological data. After the Slavic invasions, however, such genetic continuum between northern Italy and the northern Balkans was lost.