Advice for the right country for me.

[stevenarmstrong]

If california were in Europe, it would have 100 million people, by Switzerland density.

It wouldn't concern me as much if we had more water (I'm from Southern California). And yes, traffic in Zurich sucks. But compared to L.A.? It's a breeze.

 

[Moi-même]

What about Monaco?

 

[stevenarmstrong]

What about Monaco?

Only 4.5 hour drive to Chamomix! And that Mediterranean is oh so nice in the summer.

 

[Minty]

64 degrees in the summer (Norway) IS a bit too much like San Francisco. But no skiing in the winter?? Ummm... k. And what's wrong Mormons? They're businesss friendly, family friendly, and Utah is one of the top 5 most beautiful states in the Union. (You can leave the religious bigotry at the door, thank you very much.) Sure the beach is a bit of a drive, but that's a good thing as the sea levels begin to rise. As for Switzerland, the skiing is fantastic, it's gorgeous and it's rich. Rich is good.

I have never heard of Southern Europeans who like the weather in Scandinavia.

My family in the US are Mormons, and it is true that in France any of those religions are banned. Just because I doubt an European would be interested in living in a place that is very religious therefore I have religious bigotry?

Read this: https://www.pri.org/stories/2014-07...society-safe-religion-banning-so-called-cults

Portugal is in Europe. Have you lived in Europe? Do you know that these days Europeans are not religious? I think you are a Chinese hatter.

Of course rich is good, the question is can you afford it?

 

[Minty]

Only 4.5 hour drive to Chamomix! And that Mediterranean is oh so nice in the summer.

You're only allowed to live there (for non-citizens) if you have 1 million dollars in equity. The apartments in Monacco are hugely expensive. The average rental is about $25 000/month and many are much higher than this. To buy your looking at typically between 2 and 12 million but again you can pay much more. My question is how many people in this world can afford to live there?

 

[stevenarmstrong]

I have never heard of Southern Europeans who like the weather in Scandinavia.

My family in the US are Mormons, and it is true that in France any of those religions are banned. Just because I doubt an European would be interested in living in a place that is very religious therefore I have religious bigotry?

Read this: https://www.pri.org/stories/2014-07...society-safe-religion-banning-so-called-cults

Portugal is in Europe. Have you lived in Europe? Do you know that these days Europeans are not religious? I think you are a Chinese hatter.

Of course rich is good, the question is can you afford it?

Europeans aren't religious, therefore cannot live near religious people? Chinese hater? Are you for real or am I talking with a bot? Assuming you are real, I'll answer your question: yes, I have lived in Europe. And most of the people I met there could care less what religion their neighbors did or did not practice.

 

[stevenarmstrong]

You're only allowed to live there (for non-citizens) if you have 1 million dollars in equity. The apartments in Monacco are hugely expensive. The average rental is about $25 000/month and many are much higher than this. To buy your looking at typically between 2 and 12 million but again you can pay much more. My question is how many people in this world can afford to live there?

Better start saving up!

 

[Minty]

Europeans aren't religious, therefore cannot live near religious people? Chinese hater? Are you for real or am I talking with a bot? Assuming you are real, I'll answer your question: yes, I have lived in Europe. And most of the people I met there could care less what religion their neighbors do or do not practice.

And your assumptions based on ignorance? I have something against Mormons because I do not suggest that he should move to Utah?! Then are you assuming that I hate my family in the US who are mormons just because I don't suggest he move to Utah? Are you serious?!

How long have you lived in Europe? Which country?

I have lived in Europe for more than 10 years now, so this is my general impression of Europeans. Maciamo for example is not so keen with religions but it does not mean that he cannot have religious neighbours. Many Europeans I met have that sort of attitude. They might not mind do it for a short term. Perhaps there are ones who do. This person wants to move out of Portugal to another country in Europe ( is Utah in Europe?), no for a better future. He said it in his post, did he not?

I think you come from the US, so you think the US is the best country in the world because you come from the US! I don't think this person wants to leave Europe but you insist this is what he wants because you like to control how people think. Your attack on me is based on my race, I can feel it, even though you try to make it look like I have religious bigotry.

 

[Minty]

Better start saving up!

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...Wealthy+Florence+Today+Families+600+Years+Ago

Take a look at this thread, the rich will always be rich and the poor will always be poor. I seriously doubt a rich person will come to Eupedia and ask for suggestions which country in Europe is the best choice to move to. He wants warm countries where he can swim in the ocean, Norway warm? Your definition of warm is very far from the norm. He is right France is a country with warm weather in the south where you can swim in the sea and in the winter there are places where he can ski. France used to be a very good country to migrate to. I migrated to France over ten years ago. However, a lot of things have changed, especially in the education system. A lot of riots and attacks too!

 

[Bergin]

Canary Islands

 

[stevenarmstrong]

And your assumptions based on ignorance? I have something against Mormons because I do not suggest that he should move to Utah?! Then are you assuming that I hate my family in the US who are mormons just because I don't suggest he move to Utah? Are you serious?!

How long have you lived in Europe? Which country?

I have lived in Europe for more than 10 years now, so this is my general impression of Europeans. Maciamo for example is not so keen with religions but it does not mean that he cannot have religious neighbours. Many Europeans I met have that sort of attitude. They might not mind do it for a short term. Perhaps there are ones who do. This person wants to move out of Portugal to another country in Europe ( is Utah in Europe?), no for a better future. He said it in his post, did he not?

I think you come from the US, so you think the US is the best country in the world because you come from the US! I don't think this person wants to leave Europe but you insist this is what he wants because you like to control how people think. Your attack on me is based on my race, I can feel it, even though you try to make it look like I have religious bigotry.

If you read the thread, you'll see that Angela recommended US, and Cali in particular. I simply responded to that, and suggested Utah because it met several of the criteria. Then you pitch in saying he wouldn't want to come to Utah because Mormons live there. How would you feel if someone said not to move to [fill in the blank] because Chinese people lived there? Clearly it would offend you. And it should, because it is offensive.

 

[Minty]

If you read the thread, you'll see that Angela recommended US, and Cali in particular. I simply responded to that, and suggested Utah because it met several of the criteria. Then you pitch in saying he wouldn't want to come to Utah because Mormons live there. How would you feel if someone said not to move to [fill in the blank] because Chinese people lived there? Clearly it would offend you. And it should, because it is offensive.

I did not say that. I am saying that the reasons for him to consider moving to another country are the weather, the location (has to be in Europe) and non communism related, because he does not feel safe settling down there.

Then you suggested Utah, after he already told Angela he would not consider countries outside of Europe because then he needs a green card to move there.

My remarks on the Mormons are some sort of second degree joke which you took as some sort of religious bigotry. He keeps on telling us he would only consider moving to xyz countries, based on weather ( he wants to swim in the ocean and ski) this is why he wants to go to France and no communism and you keep on telling him to move out of Europe to a country surrounded by Mormons.

I have met a lot of Mormons in my life. My American families are the reason I have talked to many Mormons. My cousin even attended Mormon university. The Mormons don’t celebrate Easter. They don’t drink coffee or tea. They choose some parts of the bible to believe and the other parts are false for them. They believe in the Book of Mormon. I think my aunt mentioned that there were two groups of Mormons one group practices polygamy. Bref, they are not successful to get me to be involved in the religion.

I never lived in Utah, but prior to moving to France I used to live in Australia. If a foreigner were to move to Utah. This is what I am imagining what could have happened. You would get a lot of visits from the elders of The Church of Latter day Saints. I can see their black badges with their names on them, their black ties and their white shirts as I am writing this. I am getting a dejavu effect. Now, I never lived in Utah and I got a lot of visits from the Mormons when I was a teen back in Australia because they wouldn’t give up trying to convincing me to join their faith.

I took a good look at trip advisor on Utah. I see pages and pages of rocks and I took a good look at the map of Utah to see the location of Utah in the US. It is not near the sea.

So I guess what I am joking at is, you are trying to get him to move to Utah so he can get more Mormon exposure, not that I am saying that Mormons are some kind of monster which is what you seem to try to say what I am trying to say.

Even though he tells us he does not want to go outside of Europe, he wants to ski in the mountains and swim in the ocean in Europe.

 

[Coriolan]

Sometimes I feel like I'm Alice after she fell down the rabbit hole. Sweet lord...Russia!

Really? You didn't get my sarcasm with the gulags? I I added that at the end to make sure people didn't take my suggestion seriously. Johnatanasoff's criteria were so restrictive that the only country I could think of that actually fit most criteria was southern Russia. All Mediterranean European countries have high unemployment and relatively slow growing economies.

 

[Angela]

Really? You didn't get my sarcasm with the gulags? I I added that at the end to make sure people didn't take my suggestion seriously. Johnatanasoff's criteria were so restrictive that the only country I could think of that actually fit most criteria was southern Russia. All Mediterranean European countries have high unemployment and relatively slow growing economies.

No, I didn't get it. Sorry if I misunderstood. It's not as if we don't have plenty of Russian apologists on here who might indeed say such a thing. Put a smiley next time if you want to be sure you won't be misunderstood. As for the gulag statement I had no idea what you meant but I often have a bit of difficulty figuring out what some people mean given that English isn't their first language.

You're right about southern European economies, and part of the reason is they got sold a bill of goods about the Euro. The other reason is they don't have much good farmland and no energy resources of their own.

I'm afraid Switzerland beat them to it in creating a haven for the money of every Nazi, Communist leader, mass murderer, despot, thief, dishonest business man and tax cheat in the world, so that's out.

 

[Coriolan]

No, I didn't get it. Sorry if I misunderstood. It's not as if we don't have plenty of Russian apologists on here who might indeed say such a thing. Put a smiley next time if you want to be sure you won't be misunderstood. As for the gulag statement I had no idea what you meant but I often have a bit of difficulty figuring out what some people mean given that English isn't their first language.

Ok, I will work on my English then.

You're right about southern European economies, and part of the reason is they got sold a bill of goods about the Euro. The other reason is they don't have much good farmland and no energy resources of their own.

Not much good farmlands? Spain is the breadbasket of Europe producing most of the fruits and vegetables consumed by Europeans. Then, all Southern European countries produce a big share of the world's olive oil, grapes and wine, which is nothing to be snuffed at. Wine in particular as much more profitable per square meter of land than potatoes or wheat. As for natural resources if the Dutch and Danes managed to get electricity from wind farms and the Germans from solar energy, there is no reason why Mediterraneans couldn't do as well or better as they have plenty of sun and wind too. Only Norway and Scotland have economies that were blessed by petrol, but that's not going to last with the current prices.

I'm afraid Switzerland beat them to it in creating a haven for the money of every Nazi, Communist leader, mass murderer, despot, thief, dishonest business man and tax cheat in the world, so that's out.

I know that, but what does that have to do with what I said? Rather uncalled for, don't you think?

 

[Angela]

Germany doesn't get most of its electricity from solar power. Solar and wind power and these other alternative methods aren't yet cost effective. Surely you know that? What do you think fueled Germany's industrialization? The coal of the Ruhr is what fueled industrialization. Germany is still burning its own coal. It also uses nuclear energy.

"In 2013 coal made up about 45% of Germany's electricity production (19% from hard coal and 26% from lignite)".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_Germany

Add to that all that nice flat farmland, although it wasn't enough for them; they wanted Poland's as well. Do you know when northern Europe finally started to develop and become powerful? It started when sturdy, metal plows were invented which could turn that heavy soil.

I don't know about Spain's agriculture. Greece is just one big mountain with a few valleys. As for Italian food production, just look at it...how much flat farmland do you see?You think you can feed 60+ million people on that?

Italy hasn't been able to produce enough food even for its own people since antiquity. Remember the Roman Empire and all those fleets of grain shipments from Egypt and the Near East to Rome? It relies on olive oil and wine because olive trees and vines can grow on poor land. You can't live on olive oil and wine. Even half the wheat for bread and pasta has to be imported. Those great Italian clothes and Italian cars are made from wool and linen and cotton imported expensively from abroad, and steel and iron and rubber have to be imported as well.

"Italy is a net importer country of agri-food products due to its structural lack of natural resources."
http://s3.amazonaws.com/zanran_storage/www.centroportici.unina.it/ContentPages/107529857.pdf

Italy has been living on what economists call "added value" or value added by ingenuity and design and craftsmanship added on to imported raw materials, since at least the Middle Ages. Don't they teach any of this in econ courses in Europe any more?

We've been overpopulated for the terrain for thousands of years. That's what happens when you've been settled and farming for 7,000 years, and it's also why one of our biggest exports is people. That's why some Italians aren't at all unhappy that we now have one of the lowest birthrates in the worl. It's the world's loss in my opinion.

As to the last comment, yes, I was snarky, but I only respond in kind. If I get civility, I give it back. If I don't, I don't. I gave up being a Christian and turning the other cheek quite a while ago.

 

[Coriolan]

Germany doesn't get most of its electricity from solar power. Solar and wind power and these other alternative methods aren't yet cost effective. Surely you know that? What do you think fueled Germany's industrialization? The coal of the Ruhr is what fueled industrialization. Germany is still burning its own coal. It also uses nuclear energy.

"In 2013 coal made up about 45% of Germany's electricity production (19% from hard coal and 26% from lignite)".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_Germany

Why are you talking about the industrial revolution? I'm talking about now. And even data from 2013 is outdated as renewable energy is progressing fast. German people are commited to completely phase out nuclear energy within the next few years.

Solar energy is already cost effective in Germany, Italy and Spain among others.

Here is more from Wikipedia.

Net-generation from renewable energy sources in the German electricity sector has increased from 6.3% in 2000 to about 34% in 2016.

While peak-generation from combined wind and solar reached a previous all-time high of 74% in April 2014

As to the last comment, yes, I was snarky, but I only respond in kind. If I get civility, I give it back. If I don't, I don't. I gave up being a Christian and turning the other cheek quite a while ago.

What have I ever done to you? I just pointed out that my comments about Russia were not serious. I never mentioned anything about you.

 

[SteveGordon]

Have you tried online planning? It is often useful because it takes in account personal preferences. Try our routeprefect or some place similar. I have found them useful several times.

 

[johnatanasoff]

I did not say that. I am saying that the reasons for him to consider moving to another country are the weather, the location (has to be in Europe) and non communism related, because he does not feel safe settling down there.

Then you suggested Utah, after he already told Angela he would not consider countries outside of Europe because then he needs a green card to move there.

My remarks on the Mormons are some sort of second degree joke which you took as some sort of religious bigotry. He keeps on telling us he would only consider moving to xyz countries, based on weather ( he wants to swim in the ocean and ski) this is why he wants to go to France and no communism and you keep on telling him to move out of Europe to a country surrounded by Mormons.

I have met a lot of Mormons in my life. My American families are the reason I have talked to many Mormons. My cousin even attended Mormon university. The Mormons don’t celebrate Easter. They don’t drink coffee or tea. They choose some parts of the bible to believe and the other parts are false for them. They believe in the Book of Mormon. I think my aunt mentioned that there were two groups of Mormons one group practices polygamy. Bref, they are not successful to get me to be involved in the religion.

I never lived in Utah, but prior to moving to France I used to live in Australia. If a foreigner were to move to Utah. This is what I am imagining what could have happened. You would get a lot of visits from the elders of The Church of Latter day Saints. I can see their black badges with their names on them, their black ties and their white shirts as I am writing this. I am getting a dejavu effect. Now, I never lived in Utah and I got a lot of visits from the Mormons when I was a teen back in Australia because they wouldn’t give up trying to convincing me to join their faith.

I took a good look at trip advisor on Utah. I see pages and pages of rocks and I took a good look at the map of Utah to see the location of Utah in the US. It is not near the sea.

So I guess what I am joking at is, you are trying to get him to move to Utah so he can get more Mormon exposure, not that I am saying that Mormons are some kind of monster which is what you seem to try to say what I am trying to say.

Even though he tells us he does not want to go outside of Europe, he wants to ski in the mountains and swim in the ocean in Europe.

Hi Minty,


Sorry the late reply, but the website for some reason would not let me write a reply directly in the editor and i waited to see it fixed.


Seems you were one of the few who actually payed attention to my wishes regarding the right fit for me. Thanks for that!




I can't go outside of the EU because of Visa requirements; simple!
Within the EU, France is appealing because of the weather and nature. It's still a powerfull country with a good economy. Better than Portugal for sure!


But regarding working and living opportunities i currently have in mind Germany, Switzerland, Netherlands and Luxembourgh as my top choices.
Germany i can snowboard in winter and swim in the ocean in the summer.
For ocean swiming in the other 3 countries i'l have to travel which is OK




Thanks again for your replies and help!

 

[Minty]

Hi Minty,
Sorry the late reply, but the website for some reason would not let me write a reply directly in the editor and i waited to see it fixed.
Seems you were one of the few who actually payed attention to my wishes regarding the right fit for me. Thanks for that!
I can't go outside of the EU because of Visa requirements; simple!
Within the EU, France is appealing because of the weather and nature. It's still a powerfull country with a good economy. Better than Portugal for sure!
But regarding working and living opportunities i currently have in mind Germany, Switzerland, Netherlands and Luxembourgh as my top choices.
Germany i can snowboard in winter and swim in the ocean in the summer.
For ocean swiming in the other 3 countries i'l have to travel which is OK
Thanks again for your replies and help!

I have not been to this website for a very long time, hence, sorry for my late reply.

I have to say the countries where you have chosen are typical choices of Europeans I know, especially from the part of Europe you come from.

Germany: for a very long time Germany remains to have the best economy in Europe. Today, Germany continues to be one of the world’s most powerful and dynamic economies. This is why you chose Germany. I think a lot of Spanish moved to Germany because of their high unemployment rates.

Switzerland: you want to go there because their salary is higher, just like French or Germans who have moved there to work, or perhaps the Italians as well. However, Lugano is small and is like a Hollywood star residence area. I doubt that there are many jobs available. The French parts of Switzerland are more expensive than the German parts. There is one problem with migrating to rich countries or cities, unless you got a very good job you would need to work 2 to 3 jobs to survive over there. Swiss German is different from high German. However, the Germanophones understand each other. For foreigners, it can be difficult.

The Netherlands: Dutch economy expands at the fastest rate since joining the euro. Every year when I take a look at the world's richest countries, they seem to be improving while the France drops its ranking year by year. However, I don't know much about the Dutch, to be honest.

Finally, Luxembourg: there are a lot of Portuguese in Luxembourg. Limitations: From what I know they look down at the Portuguese over there. Advantages: It is the wealthiest country in the EU, and you already have many of your own people over there, networking is very important to get jobs. To survive in Luxembourg, you need French and English or German, you may need to learn Luxembourger as well. However, I think the Luxembourgers are relatively friendier than the Swiss on average. They are similar to the Swiss, very discreet people. They keep to themselves. As a Southern European, you may find them cold.

Most Europeans learn each other's languages. Aside from Portuguese, and English, have you mastered your German and French well? With countries who use multiple languages such as Luxembourg, Switzerland probably Belgium as well, you need to specialise in one of their main languages with a skill (Medicine, IT, Engineer, MBA...etc). With the other languages spoken in their countries, you need at least a sound level in those languages. You cannot be clueless, if you want to get a job.