Albanian lexemes and their presence in the other languages

[LAB]

I didn`t said this. I said: i disagree with his theory.Please, don`t put in my mouth words that i have never said. It`s not serious.


So, you are following here in this forum your personal crusade against the false information. I appreciate your intention, but i find difficult because there are too many pseudoscientific theories here in this forum. And, if you want to have success, first of all you need to have some knowledge, but after reading some of your posts my impression is that you are not the right person for this kind of holy mission.

How do you know that the theory of Zeus is product of Albanian nationalism? Can you explain this?
And second, what is your opinion about this:

Do you consider scientific this two points about the etymology of name Illyria?

Greek *Y was like German über and French pure by Greek scholars, or like Albanian *y of the word YLLI
http://5dim-tavrou.att.sch.gr/lexiko_bambinioti.pdf

In fact if you get rid of the suffixes from Illyr-ioi and Ellin-es we have ILLYR / ELLIN
Is it that hard to relate those terms with Albanian ? I don't think so..
As a result of the R/N rotation between geg/tosk for same words we have truni/truri - lene/lere - shqipni/shqiperi ,etc,etc
illyr/ellin from YLLI (star)

A symbol also used by ancient Macedonians


Illyrians / Ellines / Macedonians , people of the same race according to albanian. ?!

 

[LABERIA]

Calm down, man. I was referring to this part of your answer: "If you consider all his theory a pseudoscience, why do you continue to discuss with him?" You already told the reason why I continue to discuss with him: I consider all his theory a pseudoscience. Next time improve your interpretation skills before you make harsh posts, okay? It'll be better for your credibility and reputation.

Maybe it's not a question of interpretation, but it`s not important. Important is that was not your intention to distort my words.

Seriously, doesn't the idea that Albanian is, in its modern form, the origin of the most basic semantic and phonetic roots of the roots of Indo-European languages and even some non-IE languages like Hungarian - all of which developed thousands of years ago but never mind,

I think that i have explained my opinion, i don`t agree with the theory of Zeus. I can`t contradict his theory because i am not a linguist. But because i can`t contradict his theory because i am an ignorant in linguistic, this is not an argument to prove that his theory is valid. From the other side, for the same reason it`s not correct to attack him personally, something that has been seen in the other thread and here from you and other members.
I can`t say that all was organised against him, but i noticed a syntony among different members in slandering, mocking, him, basically playing with his nerves. This is usually an tactic in the forums followed by t-rolls, to prepare the lamb for the butcher. Zeus is not a t-roll, he is not a spammer, or impolite. I think he explained perfectly this. Of course he has his limits when he is under preassure and is attacked by others. And he is not an nationalist because you failed to prove this accusation against him and i continue to belive, in good faith that you want to discuss about something that you have not any idea. He is someone who don`t start thread about the language, history, etc, of other ethnic groups. He was discussing about his language. This theory is not his personal theory. In the other thread Lab explained this. This is an theory that hes been discussed since XIX century from Albanians and foreigners, continue to be discussed in our days, even between Albanians and Greeks and you can not accuse a Greek as Albanian nationalist. It`s an theory like many others. For example this scholar think that Slavic is an Balticized Albanian:
SLAVIC, A BALTICIZED ALBANIAN?
It`s an theory like many other theories. And there is nothing bad if people discuss in a civilised manner. Eupedia is not the only forum in the world. There are plenty of forums specialised in history, linguistic, etc, and nobody is banned because he have an alternative point of view, there are even alternative subforums. The ad-hominem attack against a person, this kind of holy crusades are not allowed.
We have follow in these days the talks between Greece and FYROM about the name of this country. But we have read in this forum how members from FYROM claim that Thracian is a slavic language, but i did not notice this hysteria we saw against Zeus.
But excuse me, Albanians are probaly the most ancient ethnic group of this continent.
And in the end, to conclude this part of the post, this is the reason why forums exists, people can exchange opinions, discuss, etc, not following holy missions.

somehow Albanians magically preserved their "pure" original language for milennia -, and the idea that Albanian has a "divine force" that makes its speakers supremely more resistant against assimilation and foreign oppression, doesn't all of that strike you as a bit nationalistic or ethnocentric? Honestly?

This is an other discussion. Albanian is not a pure language, it`s impossible. But Albanian is the only surviving language from many ancient languages spoken in antiquity in Balkans and not only. All the ancient language, Thracian, Dacian, Macedonian, etc, dissapeared. The ancient greek, the language of a great civilisation is a dead language. The latin, the language of another great civilisation and probably the greatest Empire in human history is an dead language.
Albanian survived. And we are talking about a language who has always been not only under preassure from all these civilisation and empires, but it`s probably the only indoeuropean language that the use it was forbiden with an Imperial decree, a Ferman of an Ottoman Sultan in the end of XVIII century and was accursed by the lackey of the Ottomans, the Patriarchane of Istanbul. We have the martyrs of Albanian language, teachers and orthodox priests killed by greeks and ottomans, always with the blessing of Patriarchate. Here you have some:
Papa Kristo Negovani

Papa Kristo Negovani, born Kristo Harallambi, and also known as Kristo Negovani (1875 – February 12, 1905) was an Albanian nationalist figure, religious leader and writer^{[1][2][3][4][5][6]}

In 1897, he returned to his native village and worked as a teacher and parish priest.^[7] Negovani transformed his house into a school and taught over one hundred children and adults to read and write Albanian. He preached and introduced the Albanian language for the first time in Orthodox Divine Liturgy earning the displeasure of the Greek Orthodox hierarchy.^{[7][8][9][10]} For his efforts Negovani was murdered (February 12, 1905) by a Greek guerilla band on orders from Bishop Karavangelis of Kastoria.^{[9][10][4][1][5][2][3][6]}

Anastas Kullurioti

Anastas Kullurioti or Anastasios Koulouriotis (Greek: Αναστάσιος Κουλουριώτης; 1822–1887^[1]) was an Arvanite^[2] and Albanian nationalist figure, publisher and writer in Greece.
He got arrested in Gjirokastër with the request of the Greek consul and extradited to Corfu. He was imprisoned in Greece for some time, and he is said to have died poisoned in prison in Athens at the beginning of 1887.^{[2][10][12][13]}

Petro Nini Luarasi

Petro Nini Luarasi (born 22 April 1864 in Luaras, Kolonjë, Albania, then Ottoman Empire, and died on 17 August 1911 in Ersekë, Kolonjë, Albania, then Ottoman Empire) was an Albanian rilindas activist, Christian orthodox priest, teacher and journalist.
For his patriotic deeds, teaching of the Albanian language and social activism he was persecuted both by the Young Turks and the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople. He died poisoned by them on 17 August 1911.^{[3][4][5][6][7]}
Petro Nini was the author of the:

• Excommunication of the Albanian letters (Albanian: Mallkimi i shkronjave shqipe) Manastir, 1911;
• The Diffamation of the Albanian (Albanian: Çpërfolja e shqiptarit) Manastir, 1911.

There are many examples.
But the most terrible thing was that the Great Powers had decided the annihilation of the Albanian nation. This was a proccess that started during the XIX until the Secret Treaty of London 1915 where was decided the final solution of the Albanian question. We survived and of course survived our language. The same didn`t happened with an other old ethnic group, the Vlachs.
But i want to bring at your attention some interesting proccesses that happened with all the Balkan languages during exactly this period of time, beginning of XIX century until beginning XX century. If you start to read about the balkan languages you can see that with these languages happened revolutionary proccesses, greeks invented a new language, katharevousa, turks cleaned 80% of their language, etc. Revolutionary proccess in a language mean, inventing a new language. The reasons were diffferent. There was an discrepancy between the language spoken by the inhabitants of those new nations and the official language of those countries. Another important reason was the impossibility of these languages to face the new realities created. One of the first challenges of a newly created nation is to write a Constitution, a Civil and Criminal Code and other important documents. These things are a test, among other things, also for the language.
These revolutionary proccesses didn`t happened with Albanian language. This language has successfully faced the challenges of modernity.
For all this and many other things, we have reason to be proud of our language and efforts made by our ancestors to preserve this unique language. This is history, not nationalism.

Oh, probably not, you're Albanian yourself and you, as I noted in other posts, are not used to self-criticism about your own people and country. It's difficult for some to accept that there are some unhealthy dose of delusions of grandeur and fantasy in all strands of nationalism everywhere. It's an unavoidable collateral damage of that ideology. So leave it at that. You don't need to shake your dear beliefs about your motherland to see the obvious delirious nationalism/ethnocentrism in Zeus' views.

What exactly is the problem with my posts? Can you explain this?

 

[LABERIA]

Greek *Y was like German über and French pure by Greek scholars, or like Albanian *y of the word YLLI
http://5dim-tavrou.att.sch.gr/lexiko_bambinioti.pdf

In fact if you get rid of the suffixes from Illyr-ioi and Ellin-es we have ILLYR / ELLIN
Is it that hard to relate those terms with Albanian ? I don't think so..
As a result of the R/N rotation between geg/tosk for same words we have truni/truri - lene/lere - shqipni/shqiperi ,etc,etc
illyr/ellin from YLLI (star)

A symbol also used by ancient Macedonians


Illyrians / Ellines / Macedonians , people of the same race according to albanian. ?!

Lab, i have explained even in PM that i have an different opinion about this discussions and i am not even a linguist. I admit that there are some words or names like Aphrodite that can be explained through Albanian language. But i will accept this your theory when our scholars and institution will support all this story.

 

[LABERIA]

I don't know if it is scientifically true, but, yes, it comes off to me as at least plausible as a scientific hypothesis because it's based on objective and consistent reasoning like the demonstration of (supposed) regular sound change rules. Being "scientific" is not being "right". It is about having a regular and solid method and a systematic line of reasoning, nothing else. It can even be a complete scam, but you must at least try to disguise it under a good scientific presentation.

lol. I can not try because i am not an linguist. Probably you who have much more knowledge in lingustics can try to disguise it under a good scientific presentation, because you consider all this an duty.And what is your opinion about this:

Berbers and Albanians, E haplogroup and linguistic similarity

It`s one of the many theories of Garrick about Albanians. Probably he is preparing now a new theory.

 

[Yetos]

Greek *Y was like German über and French pure by Greek scholars, or like Albanian *y of the word YLLI
http://5dim-tavrou.att.sch.gr/lexiko_bambinioti.pdf

In fact if you get rid of the suffixes from Illyr-ioi and Ellin-es we have ILLYR / ELLIN
Is it that hard to relate those terms with Albanian ? I don't think so..
As a result of the R/N rotation between geg/tosk for same words we have truni/truri - lene/lere - shqipni/shqiperi ,etc,etc
illyr/ellin from YLLI (star)

A symbol also used by ancient Macedonians


Illyrians / Ellines / Macedonians , people of the same race according to albanian. ?!

@ LAB
you are a victim too
or you want to be one,
The symbol is very old and is dating back to Karanos,
it is a Symbol that is connected with Argos,
the symbol of Argeiads.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vergina_Sun

so before you transmit the 'pub' broadcast read the above

MAKEDONIAN SYMBOL IS NOT A STAR, IT IS A SUN
a HELIOS or in primitive Greek closer to IE a SELIOS (a SOL)
remember that above Larissa and in Epirus Dodona lived the ΣΕΛΛΟΙ Selloi and Graikoi,


So if you want to exit the 'pub'

Star in Albanian is yll not ill, Yllyria is not Illyria
The symbol of Makedonia is not a yll but a diell.

 

[Yetos]

Maybe it's not a question of interpretation, but it`s not important. Important is that was not your intention to distort my words.

I think that i have explained my opinion, i don`t agree with the theory of Zeus. I can`t contradict his theory because i am not a linguist. But because i can`t contradict his theory because i am an ignorant in linguistic, this is not an argument to prove that his theory is valid. From the other side, for the same reason it`s not correct to attack him personally, something that has been seen in the other thread and here from you and other members.
I can`t say that all was organised against him, but i noticed a syntony among different members in slandering, mocking, him, basically playing with his nerves. This is usually an tactic in the forums followed by t-rolls, to prepare the lamb for the butcher. Zeus is not a t-roll, he is not a spammer, or impolite. I think he explained perfectly this. Of course he has his limits when he is under preassure and is attacked by others. And he is not an nationalist because you failed to prove this accusation against him and i continue to belive, in good faith that you want to discuss about something that you have not any idea. He is someone who don`t start thread about the language, history, etc, of other ethnic groups. He was discussing about his language. This theory is not his personal theory. In the other thread Lab explained this. This is an theory that hes been discussed since XIX century from Albanians and foreigners, continue to be discussed in our days, even between Albanians and Greeks and you can not accuse a Greek as Albanian nationalist. It`s an theory like many others. For example this scholar think that Slavic is an Balticized Albanian:
SLAVIC, A BALTICIZED ALBANIAN?
It`s an theory like many other theories. And there is nothing bad if people discuss in a civilised manner. Eupedia is not the only forum in the world. There are plenty of forums specialised in history, linguistic, etc, and nobody is banned because he have an alternative point of view, there are even alternative subforums. The ad-hominem attack against a person, this kind of holy crusades are not allowed.
We have follow in these days the talks between Greece and FYROM about the name of this country. But we have read in this forum how members from FYROM claim that Thracian is a slavic language, but i did not notice this hysteria we saw against Zeus.
But excuse me, Albanians are probaly the most ancient ethnic group of this continent.
And in the end, to conclude this part of the post, this is the reason why forums exists, people can exchange opinions, discuss, etc, not following holy missions.

This is an other discussion. Albanian is not a pure language, it`s impossible. But Albanian is the only surviving language from many ancient languages spoken in antiquity in Balkans and not only. All the ancient language, Thracian, Dacian, Macedonian, etc, dissapeared. The ancient greek, the language of a great civilisation is a dead language. The latin, the language of another great civilisation and probably the greatest Empire in human history is an dead language.
Albanian survived. And we are talking about a language who has always been not only under preassure from all these civilisation and empires, but it`s probably the only indoeuropean language that the use it was forbiden with an Imperial decree, a Ferman of an Ottoman Sultan in the end of XVIII century and was accursed by the lackey of the Ottomans, the Patriarchane of Istanbul. We have the martyrs of Albanian language, teachers and orthodox priests killed by greeks and ottomans, always with the blessing of Patriarchate. Here you have some:
Papa Kristo Negovani

Anastas Kullurioti

Petro Nini Luarasi

There are many examples.
But the most terrible thing was that the Great Powers had decided the annihilation of the Albanian nation. This was a proccess that started during the XIX until the Secret Treaty of London 1915 where was decided the final solution of the Albanian question. We survived and of course survived our language. The same didn`t happened with an other old ethnic group, the Vlachs.
But i want to bring at your attention some interesting proccesses that happened with all the Balkan languages during exactly this period of time, beginning of XIX century until beginning XX century. If you start to read about the balkan languages you can see that with these languages happened revolutionary proccesses, greeks invented a new language, katharevousa, turks cleaned 80% of their language, etc. Revolutionary proccess in a language mean, inventing a new language. The reasons were diffferent. There was an discrepancy between the language spoken by the inhabitants of those new nations and the official language of those countries. Another important reason was the impossibility of these languages to face the new realities created. One of the first challenges of a newly created nation is to write a Constitution, a Civil and Criminal Code and other important documents. These things are a test, among other things, also for the language.
These revolutionary proccesses didn`t happened with Albanian language. This language has successfully faced the challenges of modernity.
For all this and many other things, we have reason to be proud of our language and efforts made by our ancestors to preserve this unique language. This is history, not nationalism.


What exactly is the problem with my posts? Can you explain this?

If you continue such,
Then sorry,
THEN I HAVE TOI ANSWER WITH SUCH WAY,
WE SUFFERED A LOT EVEN TODAY 2017
WITH THE ALBANIAN EXTREMIZATION AGAINST EVERYTHING GREEK,
YOU DO NOT WANT ME TO OPEN MY MOUTH,

SO PLZ STAY TO LINGUISTIC CLEAR LEVEL.
IF YOU WANT HISTORY OPEN ANOTHER THREAD.

at 1300 Dyrrachium was a Greek Speaking city.
today none speaks there anymore,

 

[Dibran]

@ LAB
you are a victim too
or you want to be one,
The symbol is very old and is dating back to Karanos,
it is a Symbol that is connected with Argos,
the symbol of Argeiads.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vergina_Sun

so before you transmit the 'pub' broadcast read the above

MAKEDONIAN SYMBOL IS NOT A STAR, IT IS A SUN
a HELIOS or in primitive Greek closer to IE a SELIOS (a SOL)
remember that above Larissa and in Epirus Dodona lived the ΣΕΛΛΟΙ Selloi and Graikoi,


So if you want to exit the 'pub'

Star in Albanian is yll not ill, Yllyria is not Illyria
The symbol of Makedonia is not a yll but a diell.

News flash, the Sun IS a star....

 

[LABERIA]

let me answer you,

1rst do not mix modern Greek with Ancient/classic Greek and with Homeric

They are same language, but tottaly different,
as Latin with Italian
as Francais with Celtic,

so you must know the age of the word,

2nd
Κρατινος an Athenean writer writes

προβατον Βη Βη
αιγα μηκαται
αγελας μυκαται,

in English is like this with modern Greek pronouncation first, with classical second

sheep vivi mpee mpee
goat mimi mee mee
cow mimi mu mu NOT mou mou (ou = μακρον long u, u=ψιλον psilon short ou)

so we are CERTAIN THATIN ATTIC DIALECT
ancient Greek B = b (mp*)
ancient Greek η = ee or ii always Long sound
ancient Greek υ = ου but short, very short alone, changes with ι α ε etc etc
example Urban with Greek letters sound would be OYΡΒΑΝ Not YΡΒΑΝ
but word mouse would be μα/υ/ς !!!! compare Greek ΜΥΣ μυς

we do not know when Greek change to modern,
and there are different opinions,
but surely first changes may start from Alexandreia or Syrria Hellenistic kingdoms and continue changing through Byzantine era,
many say it is due to Christianity that change, BUT SURELY IS AFTER Jesus.
Other due to Slavic,
for me some changes starts from RomanoLatin like B->V Βαινω - Veni modern Greek Bαινω -> veno
etc etc,

SO Yes

Ιλλυρια as sound of classical Greek should sound ill(ου)ria , But very short ou
to understand the difference yell word HUMUS and word SOUND

u=ou u=i SHORT ALWAYS ALONE BUT WITH O->OY =LONG
compare Difficult with Difficillis

Erasmian Greek (Erasmus) have solve enough the problem
but not always, and in some created problems


AND THAT IS THE BEAUTY,
LANGUAGE CHANGE
BUT NOT THE MARKS,
SO WE KNOW ENOUGH THE PAST,

Just think word Μωυσης Moses
in full time sound Μoo-υ-sees or Mooisiis or Mou-u-sees (ω can transform to ou sometimes)
these are strange laws that has to do with evolution of a language
for example foot = ποδι but the brake is τροχοπεδησις ο-.>ε both βραχεα and is common

No, i don`t mix nothing. But the last thing that pass in my mind is to take seriously your tentatives in explaining the etymology of Illyrian. I am sure that you will upgrade it from islur in silur(torpedo).

 

[LABERIA]

If you continue such,
Then sorry,
THEN I HAVE TOI ANSWER WITH SUCH WAY,
WE SUFFERED A LOT EVEN TODAY 2017
WITH THE ALBANIAN EXTREMIZATION AGAINST EVERYTHING GREEK,
YOU DO NOT WANT ME TO OPEN MY MOUTH,

SO PLZ STAY TO LINGUISTIC CLEAR LEVEL.
IF YOU WANT HISTORY OPEN ANOTHER THREAD.

at 1300 Dyrrachium was a Greek Speaking city.
today none speaks there anymore,

I don`t have any idea of what are you talking.

 

[Ygorcs]

The ancient greek, the language of a great civilisation is a dead language. The latin, the language of another great civilisation and probably the greatest Empire in human history is an dead language." >>> No, they aren't. Really I mean it, and this it not my opinion, this is what I've repeatedly read in the articles and books written by professional linguists. Sorry to crush this beautiful myth of a miraculously preserved language, but the fact is that Latin is not "dead" anymore than Old Albanian or Proto-Albanian is "dead": it changed into other languages directly derived from it. Albanian is a great case of linguistic resistance in a region of the world that has been subject to dozens of large scale migrations in the last 2,000 years, but it's still not "special". All languages of Europe and the world that are still spoken descend directly from a previous language, which by its turn derived directly from a former language, and so on. In that sense, a linguistic sense, Latin, Ancient Greek, Proto-Germanic never died. Their evolved forms are still spoken by hundreds of millions of people today (oh, and by the way Vlachs still exist and speak their language, albeit it is weakened, much weakened in comparison to Albanian, I grant that).

This is one of those instances where I say that avoiding to go against some of the most basic premises of linguistics would help make people at least be willing to discuss seriously those ideas. But of course people won't be very receptive when the very first comments about those theories are already full of extremely basic, even childish mistakes and easily falsifiable popular myths.

Also, as a final note, it'd be interesting if you stopped believing that expressing vehement disagreement and insisting on presenting counter-arguments against what one perceives as totally false information as a "holy mission" or "crusade". Perhaps you're not used to it, but in certain environment people simply take for granted that of course you and anyone are totally right in expressing your position especially when you think that what was said was blatantly wrong or false. This is not a witch hunt nor a crusade. Someone who comes up with unconventional ideas and fringe hypothesis must be prepared to listen to people who find them ludicrous especially if you don't manage to explain very clearly and systematically what you think. Let's stop using this victim card, okay? All this drama because one can simply not take strong criticism is already becoming tiresome. The attacks were mostly directed at what the user Zeus said and proposed, not at him as a person, and nobody is entitled to have all their opinions and ideas respected. We owe respect to people's dignity, not to all their beliefs and thoughts.

 

[Ygorcs]

lol. I can not try because i am not an linguist. Probably you who have much more knowledge in lingustics can try to disguise it under a good scientific presentation, because you consider all this an duty.And what is your opinion about this:

Berbers and Albanians, E haplogroup and linguistic similarity

It`s one of the many theories of Garrick about Albanians. Probably he is preparing now a new theory.

I'm not talking about you, YOU, Laberia, but in a general way: anyone must do that if he wishes to present one particular thought or proposition as a scientific hypothesis.

As for the link you provided, I will only say that it is so improbable and so based - as almost always among amateur hobby linguists, unfortunately - on random coincidences and unsystematic mass comparisons that I wouldn't bother discussing much about it until much better information is given.

Also, first of all one would have to prove the most basic premise, which is that Albanian and Berber do belong to the same group of languages to allow us to separate coincidence from possible cognates more clearly. He would have to probably prove that Albanian is not Indo-European, after all the heavy correlation between the language and the haplogroup E only happens in Albanian and a few other Balkanic languages. It won't work for almost all other Indo-European branches. That's a difficult task, huh?

Even more unlikely and unconvincing is that we would still recognize so many incredibly close similarities (that's a very worrisome indication that you're probably wrong, related languages that are apart for milennia usually don't have many almost identical words): the author seems to think that E is just a generic label, but in practice E is one of the oldest of all Y-DNA haplogroups, and the main haplogroup of Berbers (E-M81) separated from the others at least 14,000 years ago. E-V13, the main haplogroup among Albanians, separated from E-M81 at least as early as the Mesolithic times, possibly 20,000 years ago. It's sometimes difficult for us to reconstruct some IE languages with a common ancestor dating to some 5,000 years ago, let alone recognize - and, even more unbelievably, finding very similar words - cognates that have been diverging for more than 10,000 years.

All these amateur linguists IMHO seem to have a very misguided and misleading notion of how languages work and how we can look for ancient common roots among them. They don't account for milennia of sound changes in them and start making comparisons involving words that look similar now after milennia of divergence and isolated development. That of course will never work beyond the totally unprovable realm of "these words look so similar, that can't be just a coincidence!" - and that's it. Plausibility and common sense, coupled with some basic premises, are already very useful things to avoid completely unbelievable (literally un-believable) hypothesis that can't even be objectively demonstrated (demonstrated in this case means "how we were led to this conclusion", not "this is my conclusion, now let me substantiate it").

 

[Yetos]

Ok

I just received an infraction
one out of many

So plz
lets LEAVE OUTSIDE POLITICS

I do not want to get banned again
I think neither wants to,

So plz lets leave outside politics.

war is upon us and soon will brake at balkans,
No need to start it here.

 

[Yetos]

News flash, the Sun IS a star....

SAID BUT TRUE

THE SUN IS NOT A STAR

Notice the center, Sun and 16 rays


wanted Dead or Alive
It is a Sun
search history why is sun and not a star


it is called ηλιακη Αλως
no need to say more, just observe it at its max, 45^o ​horizon/sun angle,
No need to analyze with mathematics, 14 rays, 12 rays hmmmm

Do you know its Latin pagan world name?
If I enter and analyze to such,
WE ARE LEAVING SCIENCE, AND WE ENTERING OTHER FIELDS,
SO JUST NOTICE AND THEN FORGET IT.
JUST ACCEPT IT IS SUN, NOT A STAR.

 

[Jovani]

SAID BUT TRUE. THE SUN IS NOT A STAR. WE ARE LEAVING SCIENCE, AND WE ENTERING OTHER FIELDS,SO JUST NOTICE AND THEN FORGET IT.JUST ACCEPT IT IS SUN, NOT A STAR.

Nasa claims the Sun to be the closest star

 

[LABERIA]

The ancient greek, the language of a great civilisation is a dead language. The latin, the language of another great civilisation and probably the greatest Empire in human history is an dead language." >>> No, they aren't. Really I mean it, and this it not my opinion, this is what I've repeatedly read in the articles and books written by professional linguists. Sorry to crush this beautiful myth of a miraculously preserved language, but the fact is that Latin is not "dead" anymore than Old Albanian or Proto-Albanian is "dead": it changed into other languages directly derived from it. Albanian is a great case of linguistic resistance in a region of the world that has been subject to dozens of large scale migrations in the last 2,000 years, but it's still not "special". All languages of Europe and the world that are still spoken descend directly from a previous language, which by its turn derived directly from a former language, and so on. In that sense, a linguistic sense, Latin, Ancient Greek, Proto-Germanic never died. Their evolved forms are still spoken by hundreds of millions of people today (oh, and by the way Vlachs still exist and speak their language, albeit it is weakened, much weakened in comparison to Albanian, I grant that).

This is one of those instances where I say that avoiding to go against some of the most basic premises of linguistics would help make people at least be willing to discuss seriously those ideas. But of course people won't be very receptive when the very first comments about those theories are already full of extremely basic, even childish mistakes and easily falsifiable popular myths.

Also, as a final note, it'd be interesting if you stopped believing that expressing vehement disagreement and insisting on presenting counter-arguments against what one perceives as totally false information as a "holy mission" or "crusade". Perhaps you're not used to it, but in certain environment people simply take for granted that of course you and anyone are totally right in expressing your position especially when you think that what was said was blatantly wrong or false. This is not a witch hunt nor a crusade. Someone who comes up with unconventional ideas and fringe hypothesis must be prepared to listen to people who find them ludicrous especially if you don't manage to explain very clearly and systematically what you think. Let's stop using this victim card, okay? All this drama because one can simply not take strong criticism is already becoming tiresome. The attacks were mostly directed at what the user Zeus said and proposed, not at him as a person, and nobody is entitled to have all their opinions and ideas respected. We owe respect to people's dignity, not to all their beliefs and thoughts.

You are a member in a forum. You are here to discuss not to attack.

 

[LAB]

@Yetos > remember that above Larissa and in Epirus Dodona lived the ΣΕΛΛΟΙ Selloi and Graikoi,


We've done the same discussion in the past, and it's better not to start it again because it won't lead us anywhere.
But i'll give you some more clues.

ylli, illy, elli could be anagrams, just like Σελλοι / Ελλη-νες that you claim as the right one.
Both terms without the suffixes have the endings N/R (rotation of Albanian)
The root then is the word *Ylli which in geg becomes yllini / ellini while in tosk becomes ylliri / illyri
Similar endings we find among the other Albanian tribes geg > gegNi / lab > labëRi / tosk > toskëRi - toskëNi / çam > çamëRi

Then we have more clues leading us to the word *ylli (star)

In Greek mythology, Hyllus /ˈhɪləs/ (Greek: Ὕλλος) or Hyllas (Ὕλᾱς) was son of Heracles and Deianira,[1][2] husband of Iole, nursed by Abia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyllus

Then we have this

Ό «Ομηρος αναφέρει την πόλη Ίλιον, από το βασιλιά Ίλο, γιό του Τρώα και δισέγγονο του Δάρδανου (Ιλιάδα Υ 321 κ.έξ.).

'Ιλιον' was the city of the ''Sun'' according to Homer, but the Greek word for the 'sun' is 'ηλιος' not 'ιλιος'. So vowels change, hence illyria/ylliria
'Ηλιος' / 'Ylli' who knows.. they could also be the same word at one point, later homophones while today nothing at all.

Doesn't matter what the Vergina star-sun is, what does matters is that through Albanian we get a better explanation for both terms illyria/ellines, a meaning somehow shows that they were the same race, and also includes the symbol of ancient Macedonians, so we have more things to bring the two nations closer rather than claiming all the history that almost all Balkans have in common only for yourself.



As for the term 'Σελλοι from wikipedia..
https://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/Σούλι_Θεσπρωτίας
Κατά καιρούς έχουν αναφερθεί διάφορες απόψεις για την προέλευση του ονόματος: ο Χριστόφορος Περραιβός που γνώρισε προσωπικά τους Σουλιώτες στις αρχές του 19ου αιώνα αναφέρει την τοπική παράδοση ότι οφείλεται σε κάποιον Τουρκαλβανό Σούλη που είχε φονευθεί σ' αυτή την τοποθεσία. Ο ποιητής Ανδρέας Κάλβος στην ωδή του "Eις Σούλι" συνδέει το Σούλι με τη χώρα των Σελλών.[2] Ο Π. Φουρίκης θεωρεί την ονομασία αλβανική εκ του "σούλα" που σημαίνει άκρη σκοπιάς, βίγλα, όνομα που έδωσαν στη περιοχή αυτή οι πρώτοι αλβανόφωνοι οικιστές της.[3] Ο Γεώργιος Μπαμπινιώτης ετυμολογεί το Σούλι από το αλβανικό suli, που σημαίνει αιχμηρή κορυφή (βουνού).[4] Κατά μια άλλη άποψη η λέξη Σούλι προέρχεται από την αλβανική λέξη shul, που μεταξύ άλλων σημαίνει πάσσαλος, δοκάρι, κορυφή, λόφος.[5]

 

[MOESAN]

@Yorcs

Don't try to count how many words start with *K and how many don't, you're loosing the point.. ,compare those starting with *K with other IE languages,
From the list below Greek has 8/14 words starting with *K while in Latin and English *k have become *c.
Since Greek is the oldest attested living language then the shift is k>c and not vice versa. The root then becomes the language with most words starting with *K.
Voila !

kërmë (alb) κορμος (gr) corpus (lat) corpse (eng)

kokë (alb) κεφαλή (gr) caput (lat)

kafkë, krye (alb) καυκαλο,κρανιο (gr ) cranium (lat)

krah (alb) ακρο, βραχιων (gr)

kurriz (alb) πλατη (gr) rücken (germ) ridge (eng)

kraharor (alb) στηθος (gr) brust (germ)

kërbishtë (alb) κοκκυξ (gr) kreuzbein (germ) coccyx (eng)

kockë (alb) κοκκαλο (gr) knohha (old germ)

kar (alb) πεος (gr) tarse (mid eng) *tersaz (pro-germ)

kofshë (alb) μηρος (gr) coxa (lat) coapsa (roma)

këmbë (alb) ποδι (gr) scanca (old germ) crus (lat)

kërcij (alb) κνημη (gr) tibia (lat)

kyç (alb) κλειδα (gr) clavis (lat) clavicle (eng)

&

kap (alb) καππεσε (hom gr) catch (eng)

Could you help a poor amateur to see where is your point about 'k' existing before 'c': are you not mixing orthographic signs with phonetic ones ? to me, even if the pronunciation can differ in the detail between the phonetic /k/ signs, the evolution of 'k' in 'c' is not by force a change in phonetic effect, but a scriptural but only a scriptural convention? BTW we don't know exactly what were the exact pronouncation of ancient signs.
C

 

[Yetos]

@Yetos > remember that above Larissa and in Epirus Dodona lived the ΣΕΛΛΟΙ Selloi and Graikoi,


We've done the same discussion in the past, and it's better not to start it again because it won't lead us anywhere.
But i'll give you some more clues.

ylli, illy, elli could be anagrams, just like Σελλοι / Ελλη-νες that you claim as the right one.
Both terms without the suffixes have the endings N/R (rotation of Albanian)
The root then is the word *Ylli which in geg becomes yllini / ellini while in tosk becomes ylliri / illyri
Similar endings we find among the other Albanian tribes geg > gegNi / lab > labëRi / tosk > toskëRi - toskëNi / çam > çamëRi

Then we have more clues leading us to the word *ylli (star)

In Greek mythology, Hyllus /ˈhɪləs/ (Greek: Ὕλλος) or Hyllas (Ὕλᾱς) was son of Heracles and Deianira,[1][2] husband of Iole, nursed by Abia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyllus

Then we have this

Ό «Ομηρος αναφέρει την πόλη Ίλιον, από το βασιλιά Ίλο, γιό του Τρώα και δισέγγονο του Δάρδανου (Ιλιάδα Υ 321 κ.έξ.).

'Ιλιον' was the city of the ''Sun'' according to Homer, but the Greek word for the 'sun' is 'ηλιος' not 'ιλιος'. So vowels change, hence illyria/ylliria
'Ηλιος' / 'Ylli' who knows.. they could also be the same word at one point, later homophones while today nothing at all.

Doesn't matter what the Vergina star-sun is, what does matters is that through Albanian we get a better explanation for both terms illyria/ellines, a meaning somehow shows that they were the same race, and also includes the symbol of ancient Macedonians, so we have more things to bring the two nations closer rather than claiming all the history that almost all Balkans have in common only for yourself.



As for the term 'Σελλοι from wikipedia..
https://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/Σούλι_Θεσπρωτίας
Κατά καιρούς έχουν αναφερθεί διάφορες απόψεις για την προέλευση του ονόματος: ο Χριστόφορος Περραιβός που γνώρισε προσωπικά τους Σουλιώτες στις αρχές του 19ου αιώνα αναφέρει την τοπική παράδοση ότι οφείλεται σε κάποιον Τουρκαλβανό Σούλη που είχε φονευθεί σ' αυτή την τοποθεσία. Ο ποιητής Ανδρέας Κάλβος στην ωδή του "Eις Σούλι" συνδέει το Σούλι με τη χώρα των Σελλών.[2] Ο Π. Φουρίκης θεωρεί την ονομασία αλβανική εκ του "σούλα" που σημαίνει άκρη σκοπιάς, βίγλα, όνομα που έδωσαν στη περιοχή αυτή οι πρώτοι αλβανόφωνοι οικιστές της.[3] Ο Γεώργιος Μπαμπινιώτης ετυμολογεί το Σούλι από το αλβανικό suli, που σημαίνει αιχμηρή κορυφή (βουνού).[4] Κατά μια άλλη άποψη η λέξη Σούλι προέρχεται από την αλβανική λέξη shul, που μεταξύ άλλων σημαίνει πάσσαλος, δοκάρι, κορυφή, λόφος.[5]

an answer only the last,
for the start, I will respect yours and everybody's academic right,
But I disagree. it is deeper the analysis
search illuyanka.

so for the last,
it is not Σουλι, but Κακκοσουλι, and is one village out of many, so it may means 'το κακκο του Σουλη' a chance out of many
Notice the No2 and No3 ***
It is the same, Just remember Albanian is Satem as Slavic, turn it to Centum,
and you have your Correct answer
4 is out of question.

we can discuss hours about that,
But No4 as Καλβος aproach seems out for me.

the most possible for me concerning KakkoSule/Soule for me is Bad/haunted small mountain-castle/watchtower,
or an irony of Turkish (S)-aile (important wider family, high nobility, respected 'family', a kind similar to mafia=famiglia)
sometimes the ironic name that others give can be your proud name,
but most possible I believe is bad/hsunted small mountain watchtower

 

[Ygorcs]

Could you help a poor amateur to see where is your point about 'k' existing before 'c': are you not mixing orthographic signs with phonetic ones ? to me, even if the pronunciation can differ in the detail between the phonetic /k/ signs, the evolution of 'k' in 'c' is not by force a change in phonetic effect, but a scriptural but only a scriptural convention? BTW we don't know exactly what were the exact pronouncation of ancient signs.
C

Actually I think that comment makes a very basic mistake confusing written letters with phonemes. Latin and English had no k > c change at all. "K" simply did not exist originally in the Latin script and the sound [k] that the letter "k" represents was instead represented by a different letter, "c". Letters are just visual symbols, some people seem to forget that or even ignore that. [K] could be perfectly represented by "+" or "~" if people thought that it was visually convenient. As I said, these massive comparisons trying to find similarities between modern languages are doomed to become nothing but amateur pseudo-science.

Real cognates do not look very similar nor preserve almost all phonemes, and that is why it is very important to analyze a large corpus of words to infer what were the main rules for sound changes in each language since their past. It's anachronic to try to find common roots, thousands of years ago, between 2 or 3 languages by looking at their vocabulary now in 2018. For example, using this kind of flawed method, people would probably never have noticed and accepted that Portuguese "cão" and English "hound", Irish "athair" and Portuguese "pai" are TRUE cognates.

That kind of consonant/semantics association, supposedly preserved untouched even milennia later (say, k- means physical ownership, le- means flow etc.), is extremely unlikely in form (phonetics change, if in your theory they barely changed then it's more likely that you are simply mistaken) and in essence, because the lexicon of languages are not formed regularly like a computer programation, much less using just a handful of semantically meaningful consonants (you just need to look for new words in our languages to notice how messy and irregular that process of word formation is)

 

[Yetos]

Nasa claims the Sun to be the closest star

NASA is founded at 20th centurywords sun and star milleniums before