halfalp
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- Ethnic group
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- Y-DNA haplogroup
- R-L2
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- J1c5a
Halalp,
There were natural barriers in Anatolia. There was a thick forrest that separated the Barcin Region (south) to the people living in south Black sea shores (like eg Fikirtepe) ,reason why agriculture jumped over thrace and somehow south Balkans. And yes, that is key and you are very correct. This is may take, just to reiterate.
However, these guys show up, 500-1000 years later mixed in so many steppe cultures, most still understudied, some ending up as Yamnaya. That is the reason why Steppe R1b sub clades, died in Steppe! But not language. Highly pastoral dads do not teach language. Their mothers do. That is why Y-dna was lost there, but not their language. Exogamy ruled.
- Mesolithic pop, from Balkans/thrace, during 7th millennia moved on east to south shores of black sea and like Iron gates they had lots of R1b. Hence the “srange” highly pastoral life style of Ovogorata, fikirtepe, Hogostihim, etc (conolly et al 2012)
- During 6th millennia they materialize in the form of Shulaveri-Shomu in south Caucasus. So a population of R1b. We do not have Y-dna (yet) but already know that they were “diferent” in terms of MtDna. H2+152, H15a1 and I1…. Not at all a local boys in Anatolia/Caucasus. This Mtdna is later associated with Steppe/yamnaya.
- When Shulaveri disappeared from south Caucasus in the beginning of 5th millennia (4900bc they were gone) some moved back to south shores Balck sea (hence KUM6 with Mtdna H2a) and some, lots, just like you said, move up north from Kuban river region. I truly don’t know if they already had much CHG (KUM6 shows they did, but not that much) but they did mingle with a “completely” CHG pop that might be in Kuban river and surroundings. Because from Kotias to Shulaveri there is a period where the south Caucasus shows not many people. Anyways Lazaridis still talks about CHG/Iran Neolithic)
- So by these time (4900BC) you already have a PIE population, with R1b-(L23+) , moving into steppe, also moving back to Anatolia (north)… and other places, but that is a different story.
But it doesn't really make sense, because if R1b was in Thrace and Northern Anatolia in the time of Neolithic, they would come in Europe with all the other Neolithic y-dna haplogroups and be part of the EEF. It looks more like the Iron Gates HG were pushed north in Baltic and Steppic area and by there have a reexpansion by a population ( older than Yamnaya ) somehwere in Ciscaucasia / North Caspian with the newly CHG component. You are right for the specific mtdna haplogroups, but admit that R1b-Z2013 or R1b-L23 would be in Ciscaucasia they could be largely influenced by the Shulaveri-Shomu Culture. Also Shulaveri-Shomu have a lot of cultural trait that are totally absent from the steppe, like cremation in a giant Jar.