Ancient genomes reveal social and genetic structure of Late Neolithic Switzerland

[Olympus Mons]

Some highly developed farmer cultures lived directdly West of them. ……….I predict that you will find in the LDC area a group of EHG:CHG people first in one spot, which eventually start mixing with Western farmers (wives). … intensive contacts to the farmers with Carpatho-Balkan roots to their West and contacts to the East also. .

You are very precise in your assertions and that is good. Because in the end you will be right or wrong. Just like me.
So, EEF came from Cucuteni process? OK. That is your take and might very well be.

But while we have the increase of EEF ancestry, most likely as a new shift, I don't think a migration from the East of demographic significance took place at that time, but was happening earlier already.

Again… so, ancestry came from the west to mingle with EHG that already had mingled with CHG from a ghost population?
Problem with it: Everybody (labs and Amateurs) say that the near eastern admix in Yamnaya is not represented in any samples published so far. I would say that since Mathieson et al we do have lots of Balkans samples, don’t we?

 

[Riverman]

So, EEF came from Cucuteni process?

Not just, it came with different cultural contacts, of which TCC was just the latest and itself colonised the preceding groups at the border of the steppe. See for the reference one of the quotations from Kotova. The EEF settlers were there for thousands of years, but were eventually were falling back, under worsening conditions, then came TCC and established a stable borderline and contacts.

Again… so, ancestry came from the west to mingle with EHG that already had mingled with CHG from a ghost population?

Exactly, ancestry and cultural influences. The CHG ghost was most likely coming by sea/along the Eastern coast of the Black Sea, with many remains being now under water. Probably there were even different waves or they kept contact with more Southern groups, this has to be explored. R. yar will be particularly important for these processes.

Problem with it: Everybody (labs and Amateurs) say that the near eastern admix in Yamnaya is not represented in any samples published so far. I would say that since Mathieson et al we do have lots of Balkans samples, don’t we?

The Carpatho-Balkan region is very complicated, because we know that there were different farmer people and colonising waves moving up to the North Pontic region. Like I said, there were multiple layers of early farmers living there and TCC itself was the result of newcomers colonising and/or replacing preceding farmer groups. There was, in all likelihodd, admixture with TCC, but with other farmer people too. I won't exclude the possibility that some farmer ancestry came via an Eastern route, or directly by sea, from Anatolia, but the bulk is supposed to have come from the neighbours to the West. We have the settlements, directly at the steppe people's doors, the mixture processes, that's something visible archaeologically, so its the most likely path for a signfiicant admixture and influence.

 

[Jack Johnson]

Either way I find it interesting that Tyuman is being used as an ancestral component for Khvalynsk and even SSC by Davidski and others on his blog and Anthrogenica. Yet they with a straight face, claim there is no East Asian in Yamnaya, yet there is definitely a genetic influence on at least some Yamnaya samples, from Khvalysnk, and there is definitely a SSC influence. Of course there is no East Asian in Khvalynsk, SSC, Eneolithic Steppe, or Yamnaya as stated in every paper done on the subject such as Damgaard et al 2018. There is a decent amount however, of Ancient East Asian ancestry in WSHG/Tyuman, around 20%. Also, it is important to keep in mind that WSHG/Tyuman has around 70-80% ANE/EHG related ancestry, so of course it will heavily overlap with SSC and Khvalynsk. ANE ancestry was found in Fofonovo_EN, Baikal_EN and Baikal_EBA in Jeong et al. 2020, Wang et al. 2020, and Gakuhari et al. 2019, so I wonder if a decent portion of the AEA/ANA percentage in WSHG comes from this common ANE ancestry, depending on the source population they use for this admixture. Is there ANE/ANS in Devil's Gate?

 

[Riverman]

Is there ANE/ANS in Devil's Gate?

As far as I know (others might know better?), it was not, at least no significant number, not mentioned in the paper. Devil's Gate seems to represent the East Asian/Mongoloid core group for the most part. Eastern ANE (diverged from the Western, which contributed to EHG) were living further North and West, and together with DG formed American Indians and influenced North Eastern Siberian people.

The East Asian evolutionary pathways are still not fully understood, neither is when the big split took place. In my opinion primarily during the LGM, but there are really too few samples from East Asia out yet.

ANE is in any case a fairly old ancestral component, I wouldn't lump it together for more recent considerations, when it was already differentiated.

 

[torzio]

As far as I know (others might know better?), it was not, at least no significant number, not mentioned in the paper. Devil's Gate seems to represent the East Asian/Mongoloid core group for the most part. Eastern ANE (diverged from the Western, which contributed to EHG) were living further North and West, and together with DG formed American Indians and influenced North Eastern Siberian people.

The East Asian evolutionary pathways are still not fully understood, neither is when the big split took place. In my opinion primarily during the LGM, but there are really too few samples from East Asia out yet.

ANE is in any case a fairly old ancestral component, I wouldn't lump it together for more recent considerations, when it was already differentiated.

It is because they do not want to see an North-caucasus link ..............but that place in Bulgaria, plus Malek and where the the danube hits the black sea ....is where north-caucasus people met Anatolian people in eastern Europe