Armenian/Azerbaijani - Can anyone help me with understanding my results please

maratmilano

maratmilano

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Location
Seattle, WA
Ethnic group
1/2 Armenian, 1/2 Azerbaijani
Y-DNA haplogroup
R1b L150+/PF6274
mtDNA haplogroup
U1
Hello. As an amateur enthusiast in the topic, there is a bit I have inferred on my own but I am still relatively new to ancestry genetics and certainly know less than many on here. I have the results from several different resources, and understandably they don't all say the same exact thing but I was curious if anyone could give me insight into any common patterns they see throughout them.

Background: I'm half Armenian, half Azerbaijani. I was born in Baku but my Armenian side descends from Karabakh (near Lachin) and further back in Julfa by Naxichevan. My Azeri side I know less about but my grandparents on that side came from Agjebedy (also near Karabakh) and Shemakhy.


My results...

Y-DNA - R1b1a1a2 (r-m269) though I'm told I'm L150+ L23- (and I'm not totally positive what this means)
mtDNA - U1

AncestryDNA:
70% Caucasus/West Asia
19% Europe South
7% Middle East
3% South Asia

MyHeritage:
83% West Asia
10% Italian
6% Greek
1% Middle East

FamilyTreeDNA:
93% Asia Minor
4% South Asia
2% Northeast Asia
1% West and Central Europe

WeGene:
European 50% (45%Balkan+4%Ashkenazi+1%French)
South Asia 23% (all 23% as 'Sindhi')
Middle Eastern 26% (13%Iranian+9%Egyptian+4%Saudi)

gedmatch kit#A606695 (if any of you know better tests to run I'd be happy to try)

Dodecad K7b:
48.4% West Asia
29% Southern
15.6% Atlantic Baltic
3.6% South Asian
1.5% Siberia.
1.3% East Asian

Dodecad K12b:
45.5% Caucasus
19.5% Gedrosia
12% SW_Asia
9% North European
8.5% Atlantic_Med
3% South Asia
1.7 East Asian
1.3 Siberian

Eurogenes K13:
37.5% West Asia
30% East Med
7.6% East Euro
5.7% South Asian
5% Atlantic
4.6% Red Sea
4.3% West Med
3% Baltic
1% Siberian

The GEDmatch tests have been interesting, though clearly different results show up differently in different tests, and different regions are defined in varying ways. This is where I'm getting a bit confused. Amazingly, the Oracle predictor has been fairly spot-on, as 'Armenia' and 'Azerbaijan' have shown up near the top of almost every test's predictions, and neighboring people's such as 'Turk' and 'Kurd' also frequently pop up for me.


What do you guys see when you look at my results? I'm aware that these can never tell the full exact story, but can any educated guesses be made at least? Why do the gedmatch tests show more Northern and Western influences like Atlantic_Med or Baltic while AncestryDNA and the like don't show much for me past the Greek/Italian.

Also, I'd appreciate if any fellow Armenians or Azeris as well as Turks, Iranians, Caucasus folk on here to check in and share how similar our results may be. I wish my family history were better documented beyond the 1800's, so I'd love from anyone who knows about the ethnic/migration history of the South Caucasus (particularly Karabakh and Naxichevan). Thanks!
 
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Can anyone help me with understanding my results please

Hi Marat. Your Y DNA means that you are positive for the L150 mutation but not for L23. 99% of R1b men are L23. This in the Caucasus is expected, noteworthy and interesting. M269 -L23 is very valuable research wise I suspect. It fits with the models of where R1b became Indo-Euro.

Your mtdna has low percentages throughout Europe and West Asia but highest in some regions of Georgia, so again not surprising but interesting.

The autosomal stuff is all muddled. AncestryDNA seems to have been the most honest here... the 19.5% Gedrosia in the Dodecad K12b makes it the most informative to me out of the three Gedmatches you present.
 
maratmilano said:
Hello. As an amateur enthusiast in the topic, there is a bit I have inferred on my own but I am still relatively new to ancestry genetics and certainly know less than many on here. I have the results from several different resources, and understandably they don't all say the same exact thing but I was curious if anyone could give me insight into any common patterns they see throughout them.

Background: I'm half Armenian, half Azerbaijani. I was born in Baku but my Armenian side descends from Karabakh (near Lachin) and further back in Julfa by Naxichevan. My Azeri side I know less about but my grandparents on that side came from Agjebedy (also near Karabakh) and Shemakhy.


My results...

Y-DNA - R1b1a1a2 (r-m269) though I'm told I'm L150+ L23- (and I'm not totally positive what this means)
mtDNA - U1

AncestryDNA:
70% Caucasus/West Asia
19% Europe South
7% Middle East
3% South Asia

MyHeritage:
83% West Asia
10% Italian
6% Greek
1% Middle East

FamilyTreeDNA:
93% Asia Minor
4% South Asia
2% Northeast Asia
1% West and Central Europe

WeGene:
European 50% (45%Balkan+4%Ashkenazi+1%French)
South Asia 23% (all 23% as 'Sindhi')
Middle Eastern 26% (13%Iranian+9%Egyptian+4%Saudi)

gedmatch kit#A606695 (if any of you know better tests to run I'd be happy to try)

Dodecad K7b:
48.4% West Asia
29% Southern
15.6% Atlantic Baltic
3.6% South Asian
1.5% Siberia.
1.3% East Asian

Dodecad K12b:
45.5% Caucasus
19.5% Gedrosia
12% SW_Asia
9% North European
8.5% Atlantic_Med
3% South Asia
1.7 East Asian
1.3 Siberian

Eurogenes K13:
37.5% West Asia
30% East Med
7.6% East Euro
5.7% South Asian
5% Atlantic
4.6% Red Sea
4.3% West Med
3% Baltic
1% Siberian

The GEDmatch tests have been interesting, though clearly different results show up differently in different tests, and different regions are defined in varying ways. This is where I'm getting a bit confused. Amazingly, the Oracle predictor has been fairly spot-on, as 'Armenia' and 'Azerbaijan' have shown up near the top of almost every test's predictions, and neighboring people's such as 'Turk' and 'Kurd' also frequently pop up for me.


What do you guys see when you look at my results? I'm aware that these can never tell the full exact story, but can any educated guesses be made at least? Why do the gedmatch tests show more Northern and Western influences like Atlantic_Med or Baltic while AncestryDNA and the like don't show much for me past the Greek/Italian.

Also, I'd appreciate if any fellow Armenians or Azeris as well as Turks, Iranians, Caucasus folk on here to check in and share how similar our results may be. I wish my family history were better documented beyond the 1800's, so I'd love from anyone who knows about the ethnic/migration history of the South Caucasus (particularly Karabakh and Naxichevan). Thanks!
Click to expand...

I'd guess that those "European" or northern-shifted admixtures like "Atlantic_Med" and "Baltic" don't appear in other results, instead being replaced by "Greek" or "Italian", because what they together with the other labels really say deep down is that you have a mostly West Asian mix - mostly some mix to varying degrees of CHG, ANF, Iranian_Neolithic and Levant_Neolithic - but your ancestry also had some influence of admixtures from north of the Caucasus (EHG, also perhaps a bit of WHG), probably coming via the Pontic-Caspian steppes. So, when they look for a proxy that means mostly something like "a lot of EEF-related plus a minor but appreciable steppe/"northern" admixture" they can identify as the closest group those "Greeks" or "Italians", not necessarily meaning that there were really Greeks or Italians in your ancestor lines, but somewhere, at some period in the past, a similar mix of ancient admixtures.
 
Mark said:
Hi Marat. Your Y DNA means that you are positive for the L150 mutation but not for L23. 99% of R1b men are L23. This in the Caucasus is expected, noteworthy and interesting. M269 -L23 is very valuable research wise I suspect. It fits with the models of where R1b became Indo-Euro.
Click to expand...
So you're saying I'm in the 1% of R1b that's not L23? I've been trying to find out more about L150 but there isn't much available, I guess since not many have tested +L150?
 
Ygorcs said:
I'd guess that those "European" or northern-shifted admixtures like "Atlantic_Med" and "Baltic" don't appear in other results, instead being replaced by "Greek" or "Italian", because what they together with the other labels really say deep down is that you have a mostly West Asian mix - mostly some mix to varying degrees of CHG, ANF, Iranian_Neolithic and Levant_Neolithic - but your ancestry also had some influence of admixtures from north of the Caucasus (EHG, also perhaps a bit of WHG), probably coming via the Pontic-Caspian steppes. So, when they look for a proxy that means mostly something like "a lot of EEF-related plus a minor but appreciable steppe/"northern" admixture" they can identify as the closest group those "Greeks" or "Italians", not necessarily meaning that there were really Greeks or Italians in your ancestor lines, but somewhere, at some period in the past, a similar mix of ancient admixtures.
Click to expand...

I see, thank you.

What do you think about the 3-4% South Asian and 1-2% Siberian/East Asian that shows up on nearly every test for me? When values are low are they most likely just reflecting trace amounts of archaic mixing or could those be legit if they show up on results so regularly?
 
maratmilano said:
So you're saying I'm in the 1% of R1b that's not L23? I've been trying to find out more about L150 but there isn't much available, I guess since not many have tested +L150?
Click to expand...

All L23 are positive for L150 and L23, L23 is a subclade of M269 one of whose identifying mutations is L150 as the tree currently stands, of course this could change. What this means for you is that your direct male ancestry broke away from the rest of M269 at some point before the population explosion of L23+ descendants/subclades. M269 is thought to have stayed around the Caucasus for a time before becoming IE, heading out into the Pontic steppe, accruing some neolithic V13 and G2a near R1a and then becoming the major subclade of Western Europe.

IMG_2328.jpg

I’ve circled the various subclades you might be a member of. Those aren’t exhaustive either, science is identifying new mutations all the time. PF7558 PF7562 PF7563 PF7566 PF7569

Now one of the things you could do with a FTdna test is then test the identifying SNPs for these mutations.

Read more here: https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_R1b_Y-DNA.shtml
 
Mark Thanks very much bro
 
Mark said:
Hi Marat. Your Y DNA means that you are positive for the L150 mutation but not for L23. 99% of R1b men are L23. This in the Caucasus is expected, noteworthy and interesting. M269 -L23 is very valuable research wise I suspect. It fits with the models of where R1b became Indo-Euro.
Click to expand...

Huh? Actually R1b isn't common in the Caucasus if you bothered to read a handful of Caucasus related papers within the last 5-6 years. The only ethnic group of the Caucasus to have a non-negligible frequencies of R1b overall are the Armenians, and gosh, happen to be I-E speaking.

Please do a little research before posting. I understand we're all opinions here, but still. No need to spread false information to newbies.
 
Aaron1981 said:
Huh? Actually R1b isn't common in the Caucasus if you bothered to read a handful of Caucasus related papers within the last 5-6 years. The only ethnic group of the Caucasus to have a non-negligible frequencies of R1b overall are the Armenians, and gosh, happen to be I-E speaking.

Please do a little research before posting. I understand we're all opinions here, but still. No need to spread false information to newbies.
Click to expand...

I didn’t say it was common in the Caucasus, Aaron. Speak to me with respect or you get blocked.

“expected, noteworthy and interesting” != “common”

R1b L23 first appeared (6500ybp) in the Pontic Steppe having developed from M269 after it crossed the Caucasus from Anatolia. This is why basal M269 L23- descended haplogroups are expected in the Caucasus regardless of percentage.

“It (M269 L23- in Caucasus) fits with the models of where R1b became IE (in the Pontic steppes)”

Sorry for any confusion by my wording but lay off the accusations and try to presume better of your peers.
 
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maratmilano said:
I see, thank you.

What do you think about the 3-4% South Asian and 1-2% Siberian/East Asian that shows up on nearly every test for me? When values are low are they most likely just reflecting trace amounts of archaic mixing or could those be legit if they show up on results so regularly?
Click to expand...

I really can't say for sure, that could've come to your genome in many different ways, but considering that you're half Azerbaijani what I think is most likely is that that South Asian & Siberian/East Asian is a sign of ancient Turkic ancestry from those who Turkified the former Iranian-speaking Azerbaijan. Most Turkic tribes that migrated to Anatolia and nearby areas like Azerbaijan seem to have come from present-day Turkmenistan and sojourned some time in other parts of Central Asia and the Iranian Plateau. Ultimately, of course, they were from Siberian/Northeast Asian roots, heavily diluted by mixing with the Central Asian natives by the time they finally migrated to West Asia. So, they could've picked up a bit of South Asian-related ancestry there when they lived to the east of Azerbaijan and also retained a tiny bit of their East Asian roots.
 
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