K12 Autosomal map : African admixture (from Dodecad)

[julia90]

???? What i said wrong, that map wasn't posted by me, and wasn't created by me.

And i haven't said anything the other people have said yet..

I've also included sicilians and sardinians saying that they have some north west african admixture, i haven't said only iberians.
If this feel to you better, ok?

and beside that I consider pure north west african, (Berbers), europoid looking

Chill Out!

 

[Cambrius (The Red)]

???? What i said wrong, that map wasn't posted by me, and wasn't created by me.

And i haven't said anything the other people have said yet..

I've also included sicilians and sardinians saying that they have some north west african admixture, i haven't said only iberians.
If this feel to you better, ok?

Chill Out!

Julia, cut it out already. Don't try and play people for fools.

Read the research, check the autosomal scores. You will easily see that the SW Asian (Arabian Peninsula) score for Spain and Portugal averages out to 2% and N. African is between 2.5 to 6%. based on the latest results from Eurogenes, Dodecad and other relevant autosomal studies. Not only that, North African frequencies according to a majority of population geneticists are ancient, Neolithic or perhaps even Mesolithic. Some things are as plain as day.

 

[julia90]

Infact i've saied that earlier, you didn't read with attenction:

i think this maps reflects more prehistoric migrations, than a recent arab occupation (north african in sicily and moors in spain).. this is proven also by the fact that Sardinia has this influence too, and in sardina islam never arrived.

 

[Knovas]

It's true she said at the begining this was mainly pre-historic. Although something like this sounds a bit contraditctory: certanly the islamic empire might have played a role in strenghthen this genes in Sicily and Iberia.

Well, doesn't matter. There might be som recent genes, but the most likely is the vast majority it's incredibly old. It's the most accepted conclusion in the thread and between researchers.

 

[julia90]

I agree with you

 

[julia90]

It's true she said at the begining this was mainly pre-historic. Although something like this sounds a bit contraditctory: certanly the islamic empire might have played a role in strenghthen this genes in Sicily and Iberia.

Well, doesn't matter. There might be som recent genes, but the most likely is the vast majority it's incredibly old. It's the most accepted conclusion in the thread and between researchers.

I agree with you, on this

 

[Cambrius (The Red)]

Infact i've saied that earlier, you didn't read with attenction:

That's not what I'm saying. This is autosomal DNA and it includes the FULL genome, all ancient and recent influences are included in the analysis. Looks like you need to make some conceptual adjustments. Think before you write.

 

[julia90]

??? I don't have a clue, with what you are saying.

And i'm not the only person who have said that, all the other posters have speculated it's pehistoric.. so? what's the matter with me?

Obviously the prehistoric people of north africa, looked europoid, moroccans today have many other influence than north-west-african, whic is still high in them, but they have other different genes, and only a minority of them look nowdays europoid and therefore pure berber

 

[julia90]

these are Kabyles, i think they are the candidate of being north western african

ofcourse, still they have some extra north-west african influence, so it's impossible to find a pure look.

the man in the centre, the europoid looking one, in this picture i think is the most similar to pure prehistoric berbers (even if he has a non north west african admixture, but probably it's the closest look you can have at those pure berbers)

the picture is from wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabyles

another Kabyle, europoid looking

she's of French and Kabyle origin
absolutely europoid

 

[Dorianfinder]

PD: All is based in academical studies

What do you mean? Where are all these academic articles you are basing everything on?

I showed you a representative person from an academical insititution

Where is his peer-reviewed paper on the subject of admixture analyzes?

I will admit you are wrong in making these claims until you prove to me that academic studies back your claims, if you can miraculously find a peer-reviewed study indicating that bio-geographical admixtures have been scientifically proven and accepted by a peer-reviewed board I will apologize and give you positive rep, go ahead and make my day.:useless:

 

[Wilhelm]

Please Dorian stop embarassing yourself. You said the spanish samples was made of British and Germans because of how "pure" they looked, but the spanish sample is from a peer-reviewd study of Behar et al. 2010 that included 6 andalusians and 6 catalans.

 

[Knovas]

There are Doug McDonald plots posted in several threads, as well as chromosome paintings. I have to go now, If nobody provides paintings I'll try to post some of them if you have never seen one. Doug McDonald is perfectly known to provide analysis and he is University Professor as I showed you.

If a Cathedratic is not enough academic for you...don't know what really is man XD

 

[Knovas]

Please Dorian stop embarassing yourself. You said the spanish samples was made of British and Germans because of how "pure" they looked, but the spanish sample is from a peer-reviewd study of Behar et al. 2010 that included 6 andalusians and 6 catalans.

Thanks.

Also AnthroScape shows different clustering studies and global admixture (with authors listed): http://s1.zetaboards.com/anthroscape/index/

 

[Dorianfinder]

Yes man, I see you are specially concerned to keep the reason, so don't worry, I give you the reason even when it's clear you are the only one against academical studies (not me)

No peer-reviewed papers exist on the subject so how can I be against studies that do not exist?

All people is under the same conditions, just think about it.

I don't believe you are so naive or uneducated to believe that all Europeans have the same degree of access to these admixture products as we do. You influence people on this forum and everywhere you spread your opinion, just think about that.

I do not see people making the same claims you do based on commercial and pilot studies that have not been published in a scientific journal.

 

[Cambrius (The Red)]

He just gave you Behar and McDonald. Behar has certainly been peer reviewed and probably McDonald as well. I'm sure you will shortly see any number of peer reviewed articles coming out with autosomal scores very similar to Eurogenes, etc. I'm certain you'll doubt those as well.

p.s. go ask all the Brits, French and Scandis about the claims they are making regarding their Dodecad and Eurogenes scores. There are plenty of people doing just that on various athro boards. And their claims are very valid.

 

[Dorianfinder]

He just gave you Behar and McDonald. Behar has certainly been peer reviewed and probably McDonald as well.

No, McDonald has not published a scientific paper using admixture percentages.

Behar et al 2010 did not include the bio-geographical admixture analyzes in the paper, these were supplements and admixture percentages were not published for the reasons I have already mentioned.

Is this all you can come up with, a single article by Behar et al written more that a year ago that had to include the admixtures without any percentages in their supplementary data due to the scientific controls placed by the review board. Again, nothing has been published. No interpretations or percentages claiming so much of this that and the other.

 

[zanipolo]

p.s. go ask all the Brits, French and Scandis about the claims they are making regarding their Dodecad and Eurogenes scores. There are plenty of people doing just that on various athro boards. And their claims are very valid.

what are you saying .............they are all lies ?

claims or facts ...........or guess work

 

[Knovas]

No peer-reviewed papers exist on the subject so how can I be against studies that do not exist?



I don't believe you are so naive or uneducated to believe that all Europeans have the same degree of access to these admixture products as we do. You influence people on this forum and everywhere you spread your opinion, just think about that.

I do not see people making the same claims you do based on commercial and pilot studies that have not been published in a scientific journal.

There is a criteria to access, there must be if you want to have representative samples. So they prefer samples with 4 grandparents from the same country or region, that's basic if want to obtain realistic results. Some people of mixed ancestry has get into the projects, but they are not listed in the population portraits, they are all separated. ¿What else did you expect? it doesn't make the thing less scientific, just the opposite as you pretend.

Dodecad and Eurogenes are not comercial, none of the participants had to pay nothing to get into the projects. The results simply match what clustering studies say, it's what you can see at AnthroScape or here, since there are different of this plots and also admixtures in different threads.

For the rest, I see you desperately try to deny facts saying results are dubious bla bla. Believe or not, Doug McDonald does not hide he provides admixture analysis and plots, it seems he doesn't care about he's own image for this, since he know's what he is doing goes in consonance with all is accepted at the moment. If you don't like it, that's another issue, for this reason I'll take you from now till the end as "plain impossible".

Be happy in wonderland.

PD: Here is an African American painting and one of the maps he provides to have an idea. He also provides a message with percents like the Canarian I repeated, but I don't have this one. It's just for you to see, although you must have seen several of this. The plot is included too.
View attachment 5190View attachment 5191

 

[Cambrius (The Red)]

what are you saying .............they are all lies ?

claims or facts ...........or guess work

Not lies, real research truths. Not guesswork.

I responded to Dorian who was suggesting that Spaniards and other Iberians make certain claims based on autosomal scores. What Iberians are doing is presenting their personal results grouped with others from the region. The results clearly show that indigenous Iberians are no less than 86% Euro (in the case of Spain near 91%) and above 50% western, northern / north-Atlantic, averaging the latest results. Other ethnicities also present their results showing geographical percentages for discussion.

These are autosomal DNA facts. Researchers are certainly not making things up and they all use the same cutting edge software for analysis. Some people, for whatever reason, will never accept the genetic reality of certain groups. Just plain crazy.

It seems that there are still people running around who just can't deal with the idea that Iberians are very much Western Euro, very much like other W. Euro ethnicities. They can't seem to let go of absurd nations like, Spaniards are half-Moors or half-Arabs. LOL! Quite silly, isn't it? I guess reality shocks take their toll in some individuals. Very, very primal.

 

[Wilhelm]

No, McDonald has not published a scientific paper using admixture percentages.

No, but he is a professor PhD, he uses scientific tools, he same which are used by scientists, to make the BGA plots and Admixture analysises, and uses the samples available from studies (such as the HGDP, Behar, etc.) .

Behar et al 2010 did not include the bio-geographical admixture analyzes in the paper, these were supplements and admixture percentages were not published for the reasons I have already mentioned.

They didn't come up with percentages, they could have, but they did come with an admixture colored graphic, you could make an idea already with this. What Dodecad has done is exactly the same as Behar, in fact he uses the same software, the difference is that Dodecad has labeled the components, and has publisehd the exact figures, instead of just the graphics, which is not difficult to do, is automatically done by the software.