K12 Autosomal map : African admixture (from Dodecad)

Here you have for comparison:

Dodecad Spanish
ADMIXTURE%2BSpanish_D_12.jpg

Behar Spaniards
ADMIXTURE%2BSpaniards_12.jpg

All of them with 4 grandparents from different parts of Iberia. Both paintings are averaged here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...owN3M3UWRyNnc&hl=en_US&authkey=COCa89AJ#gid=0

You can also check DOD217 (Nº3) and DOD725 (Nº14) to verify that I'm not lying and the painting match the results. Both mostly Catalans, no British ancestry my friend.

PD: One of the Dodecad Spanish (DOD628 - Nº12) was removed from the average. It seems it was fraudulent, possibly half Canarian. The average contains exactly 14 (the rest).
 
The following K runs were used by Dienekes to uncover the various admixture components:

K=3 uncovered the West Eurasian, Sub-Saharan, and East/South Asian components.

K=4 uncovered a split of Caucasoid into a component centered on Europe and West/South Asia.
Result: Established sufficient distance between South Asia and Sub-Saharan Africa.

K=5 uncovered the Mediterranean component.

K=6 uncovered the North African component.

K=7 uncovered the Southwest Asian component. [Caucasoid component in East Africa and Arabia] [Recent introduction to Northern Europe]

K=8 uncovered the South Asian component. This component removes the common variable found in South Asians and East Asians. The South Asian component represents the Caucasus. The rest of the Caucasus not included is split between West Asian and North/Central European components.

K=9 uncovered the Sardinian and Basque components of the West Mediterranean component.

K=10 uncovered the Northwestern and Northeastern divide of the North/Central European component. This Northwest component is a poor marker as it's highest in Orcadians, the British Isles, Scandinavia, France, Iberia, and Italy. Furthermore, balanced ratios of this Northwest/Northeast European dividing component is found among Greeks, Lezgins, Turks, and Iranians.

K=11 uncovered an Ethiopian/East African component.

Unfinished categorization:
- Uncover a component that puts more distance between Mediterranean and Southwest Asian.
- Establish a Western Mediterranean group that does not include the Sardinian component.
- Establish a component based on commonalities found in Northwest Africa and Iberia. [Berber]
- Establish a component based on commonalities found in North Africa and Sicily. [Saracen]
- Establish a component that puts more distance between the K=10 NW Europe and South Asia [Caucasus]. There is clearly an overlap that shows as NW European in Iran.
- Rename the South Asia and Southwest Asia components to better express their Caucasoid affinity.
 
The following K runs were used by Dienekes to uncover the various admixture components:

K=3 uncovered the West Eurasian, Sub-Saharan, and East/South Asian components.

K=4 uncovered a split of Caucasoid into a component centered on Europe and West/South Asia.
Result: Established sufficient distance between South Asia and Sub-Saharan Africa.

K=5 uncovered the Mediterranean component.

K=6 uncovered the North African component.

K=7 uncovered the Southwest Asian component. [Caucasoid component in East Africa and Arabia] [Recent introduction to Northern Europe]

K=8 uncovered the South Asian component. This component removes the common variable found in South Asians and East Asians. The South Asian component represents the Caucasus. The rest of the Caucasus not included is split between West Asian and North/Central European components.

K=9 uncovered the Sardinian and Basque components of the West Mediterranean component.

K=10 uncovered the Northwestern and Northeastern divide of the North/Central European component. This Northwest component is a poor marker as it's highest in Orcadians, the British Isles, Scandinavia, France, Iberia, and Italy. Furthermore, balanced ratios of this Northwest/Northeast European dividing component is found among Greeks, Lezgins, Turks, and Iranians.

K=11 uncovered an Ethiopian/East African component.

Unfinished categorization:
- Uncover a component that puts more distance between Mediterranean and Southwest Asian.
- Establish a Western Mediterranean group that does not include the Sardinian component.
- Establish a component based on commonalities found in Northwest Africa and Iberia. [Berber]
- Establish a component based on commonalities found in North Africa and Sicily. [Saracen]
- Establish a component that puts more distance between the K=10 NW Europe and South Asia [Caucasus]. There is clearly an overlap that shows as NW European in Iran.
- Rename the South Asia and Southwest Asia components to better express their Caucasoid affinity.

Thanks for unraveling the human judgment behind admixture issue.

- Establish a component that puts more distance between the K=10 NW Europe and South Asia [Caucasus]. There is clearly an overlap that shows as NW European in Iran.

That's interesting. From all the recent documentaries and demonstrations in Iran I noticed a big drive toward western culture and way of life among young educated generation in Iran. The young of big cities, look fairly european, they act european, they want same freedoms. I have felt really drawn to their cause.
Don't take me wrong, I love the free, just, cooperative human spirit anywhere in the world, but there was something special in these young, educated, smart Iranians to grab my heart.
I think there is a very strong genetic connection between many Iranians and Europeans.
 
T
That's interesting. From all the recent documentaries and demonstrations in Iran I noticed a big drive toward western culture and way of life among young educated generation in Iran. The young of big cities, look fairly european, they act european, they want same freedoms. I have felt really drawn to their cause.
Don't take me wrong, I love the free, just, cooperative human spirit anywhere in the world, but there was something special in these young, educated, smart Iranians to grab my heart.
I think there is a very strong genetic connection between many Iranians and Europeans.
You seem very eurocentric, why do you want them to adopt european lifestyle and culture ? Anyways, there is not such "strong genetic connection" with Europe that you speak of, autosomally.
 
You seem very eurocentric, why do you want them to adopt european lifestyle and culture ? Anyways, there is not such "strong genetic connection" with Europe that you speak of, autosomally.


very strange comment
 
The following K runs were used by Dienekes to uncover the various admixture components:

K=3 uncovered the West Eurasian, Sub-Saharan, and East/South Asian components.

K=4 uncovered a split of Caucasoid into a component centered on Europe and West/South Asia.
Result: Established sufficient distance between South Asia and Sub-Saharan Africa.

K=5 uncovered the Mediterranean component.

K=6 uncovered the North African component.

K=7 uncovered the Southwest Asian component. [Caucasoid component in East Africa and Arabia] [Recent introduction to Northern Europe]

K=8 uncovered the South Asian component. This component removes the common variable found in South Asians and East Asians. The South Asian component represents the Caucasus. The rest of the Caucasus not included is split between West Asian and North/Central European components.

K=9 uncovered the Sardinian and Basque components of the West Mediterranean component.

K=10 uncovered the Northwestern and Northeastern divide of the North/Central European component. This Northwest component is a poor marker as it's highest in Orcadians, the British Isles, Scandinavia, France, Iberia, and Italy. Furthermore, balanced ratios of this Northwest/Northeast European dividing component is found among Greeks, Lezgins, Turks, and Iranians.

K=11 uncovered an Ethiopian/East African component.

Unfinished categorization:
- Uncover a component that puts more distance between Mediterranean and Southwest Asian.
- Establish a Western Mediterranean group that does not include the Sardinian component.
- Establish a component based on commonalities found in Northwest Africa and Iberia. [Berber]
- Establish a component based on commonalities found in North Africa and Sicily. [Saracen]
- Establish a component that puts more distance between the K=10 NW Europe and South Asia [Caucasus]. There is clearly an overlap that shows as NW European in Iran.
- Rename the South Asia and Southwest Asia components to better express their Caucasoid affinity.
Pretty pathetic message again. The tittle gives an idea how absurd is the claim all runs were made "to uncover ancestries". You must have serious issues to say such thing, it's time to be resonable and stop acting like insane when all academic comunity is telling you are wrong.

First of all, the lower K's are simply minor experiments to separate populations in a simple way, nothing significant in regards of full ancestry. Dienekes' precisely mentioned what I say in the 600 member milestone run, and he always explains the objective of a run...no need to use much brain to know wich analysis are relevant in terms of full ancestry, and wich are simply experiments with a concrete objective, very different from trying to find an accurate definition for individuals. So first point, don't be demagogic with the meaning of the lower K's, and don't forget the introduction of a new cluster does not mean this was the objective of the run.

And second, the higher K's, specially K=10, did not say any lie while scoring Northern European and Southern European, the data was quite aproximate. The separation between Northeast and Northwest does not imply a huge change, the same as the Mediterranean (Southern Europe). It is only a bit more regional, the same as the other K=12 with the Sardinian and Basque components, with very similar total European/African/Asian scores, but just in different regional categories. Slightly different results is what you obtain going from K=10 to K=12's (both higher K's, not minor experiments), nothing drastic as you dishonestly try to show alluding the more or less regional character of the analysis (determined by the Nº of clusters, the distances, and the way components are named).

Very soon, there'll be a K=14 run at Eurogenes (some people has made the DIY Teaser, me included) with the components already described in the blog. I guess you'll have a very hard work trying desperately to show masked ancestries there. Come on, it's time to move.

PD:Now some comments:

Uncover a component that puts more distance between Mediterranean and Southwest Asian.

- Actually the distance is enough to note what Mediterranean really means. West Asian is closer to Southwest Asain in the last run, so the pretension to put more distance has been acomplished comparing with the previous K=10 run. No significant change in any European population, except for Sardinians, who were nearly 98% European in the K=10 run (almost entirely Southern European), and now they score 85% (-13%). It clearly means this Mediterranean is a very good representation of the Southern European ancestry as whole, much better than the previous K=10. Absolutely nothing to argue here.

Establish a component based on commonalities found in Northwest Africa and Iberia. [Berber]

- That's nothing but your sick agenda, any normal researcher would think to do so, since the North African admixture between Iberians is perferctly listed and easy to see how low it is. The same is valid for Sicily, the distinction between African and other ancestries has been clarified exceedingly well. Perfectly clear wich are the common aspects, since actually North Africans as whole have more Euro and Asian (Caucasoid) ancestry than any European has African ancestry. Or perhaps you simply ignore the fact ethnic Berbers belong almost entirely to the Northwest African component, remaining distant from all Europeans. Plain silly pretension and, again, trying to go against all stated by clustering studies.

· Houston, we have a problem...LOL
 
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how absurd is the claim all runs were made "to uncover ancestries".

Admixture components are not to be used to infer ancestry. Nowhere will you find the word ancestry in post #141. You are misusing or rather abusing the components to further your twisted agenda. Dienekes states categorically, and I quote: 'As I said countless times, I never identify DODs with ethnic groups as per the Project's policy.'
http://dodecad.blogspot.com/2011/04/k12-admixture-results-for-selected.html

the lower K's are simply minor experiments to separate populations in a simple way, nothing significant in regards of full ancestry.

You are contradicting yourself. Why if the components have already been scientifically proven etc. etc. as you claim ad infinitum would experiments still be necessary to separate populations?

don't forget the introduction of a new cluster does not mean this was the objective of the run.

Enlighten all of us and tell us what the objective was, lets have some fun.

Slightly different results is what you obtain going from K=10 to K=12's ... Sardinians, who were nearly 98% European in the K=10 run (almost entirely Southern European), and now they score 85% (-13%).

You said it not me! Do you see what I see?
 
When you understand the difference between more regional and general (what makes results slightly different, but not precisely in essence), we can continue the conversation. But I don't expect nothing from you reading such things.

The Sardinian example I showed is a very clear one, and it doesn't affect the whole populations drastically in comparison with the previous run as you pretend to say. You claimed the need of an adjustment, and I showed perfectly this has already been done with no catastrophe in the general results. So no contradiction guy, the problem is you need things very well explained, and it's not even enough for what I see.

For the rest, read the posts, Dienekes' gives an explanation in all, don't pretend I'll be doing the job for you all times.

Hope you still happy in wonderland, ¡bye!

PD: Components represent ancestry, call it as you want, doesn't matter. The project name is Dodecad Ancestry Project. Don't tell me I contradict myslef...you are the only who really does xd

Admixture components are not to be used to infer ancestry LOL
 
Of course they are used to infer ancestry...for example if an American has 5% sub-saharan it's clear he has african ANCESTRY or a mulatto person will show roughy 50/50 african/caucasoid components, because that's his ANCESTRY. It's not clear ?
 
Of course they are used to infer ancestry...for example if an American has 5% sub-saharan it's clear he has african ANCESTRY or a mulatto person will show roughy 50/50 african/caucasoid components, because that's his ANCESTRY. It's not clear ?

Don't waste your time. Some people have such primal complexities they will only believe their own constructed "realities". Just take a look at the Celts of Iberia thread. Some of the comments posted there are insanely embarrassing, severely going against all known facts in archaeology, history and genetics.
 
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Give it up, nothing is clear for him.

He uses the most insignificant details to keep the reason going against all things widely accepted. Just wish good luck for him in such desperate crusade.
 
Going back to the thread, I noticed there's an interesting sample from the Azores isles: DOD816

It shows slightly higher East African compared to the Portuguese, but the rest of African ancestry is even lower. What it's really high in comparison is the West Asian and Southwest Asian admixture. Don't know too much history about this place, I supose population could be quite hetergeneous there.
 
Going back to the thread, I noticed there's an interesting sample from the Azores isles: DOD816

It shows slightly higher East African compared to the Portuguese, but the rest of African ancestry is even lower. What it's really high in comparison is the West Asian and Southwest Asian admixture. Don't know too much history about this place, I supose population could be quite hetergeneous there.
Interesting. The high West-Asian and Southwest is possibly because of all the Jewish settlers in Azores,
 
I didn't know there was significant Jewish presence there. The explanation makes sense, because both admixtures are present in the individual at substantial levels.
 
The Azores had Jewish migration - mainly people escaping persecution from mainland Portugal and Spain. Both the Azores and Madeira are treated as genetically separate from continental Portugal since their histories are quite different.
 
Medical studies have concluded that genetic traits found primarily in Africa (>80%) can be found at up to 20% of the Sardinian population and that there is a cline of African genetic input decreasing as one moves away from Iberia in a north easterly direction [3].

1. Sanchez-Velasco P, Gomez-Casado E, Martinez-Laso J, et al. (May 2003). "HLA alleles in isolated populations from North Spain: origin of the Basques and the ancient Iberians"

2. Choukri F, Chakib A, Himmich H, Raissi H, Caillat-Zucman S (June 2002). "HLA class I polymorphism in a Moroccan population from Casablanca". European Journal of Immunogenetics 29 (3): 205–11.

3. Gómez-Casado E, del Moral P, Martínez-Laso J, et al. (March 2000). "HLA genes in Arabic-speaking Moroccans: close relatedness to Berbers and Iberians". Tissue Antigens 55 (3): 239–49.


Thus, there is medical evidence that suggests Sardinia and Iberia share significantly higher levels of gene flow from Africa, perhaps as high as 20% in some areas. However, the relative isolation and European genetic influx into these areas has decreased the total African admixture to some degree.

HLA genes? Is this a joke? According to these same hardly reliable markers that you are trying to use for your strange little agenda against Spaniards, Greeks, unlike other Europeans from the Mediterranean area, are related to sub-Saharan Africans like Ethiopians:

"Greeks seem to share genetic HLA features (Chr 6) with Sub-Saharans. The relatedness of Greeks to Sub-Saharans has been confirmed by other studies based on chromosome 7 genetic markers." (Hajjej et al. 2011. "HLA class I and class II polymorphisms in Tunisian Berbers")

There is a reason why the majority of population geneticists have shun HLA genes: they can be very misleading. This has been known since a long time ago:

"Along this slippery way, also the work of A. Mourant et al: "The distribution of human blood groups and other polymorphisms", University of Oxford, 1976, pp 1055, is missing from their bibliography. In this edition it is referred that the HLA gene is an unreliable basis to exact conclusions on such matters, since it makes the inhabitants of Basque, Iceland and Congo to have … bonds of kinship." (Aris N. Poulianos, "The Origins of the Greeks")
 
I have done some studies using 'byseg' and 'progress' modes to view the convergence of different admixture elements within Northwest Africans and Southwest Asians. I am open to discussion but will not answer to rude replies. What I found appeared to suggest the following:

NW African elements seem to converge with West Asian and Mediterranean elements with traces of Neo African (West Africa) being a unique trait of the NW African admixture signature.

In Northeast African populations there appears to be significant Southwest Asian, which as an admixture converges in progressive iterations with West Asian and Mediterranean respectively but also includes some convergence with East African admixture components. Interestingly, these East African components together with Southwest Asian elements appear to converge with Mediterranean in the North and minute traces of Palaeo-African in the South. Whereas Northwest African appears to converge with West European and West Asian elements in the north and traces of Neo African elements in the south.

This is interesting as it differentiates Northeast Africa as having traces of Palaeo-African ancestry from the Sub-Saharan hunter-gatherer populations such as the Khoisan bushmen whereas Northwest Africa shows traces of Neo African and West African ancestry from the Sub-Saharan Negroid populations such as the Herero and Ovambo found in Angola who have approx. 100% Neo African admixture.

Just a thought: There may be Neo African elements from back-migrations that left West Europe/Mediterranean for West African many moons ago. This could potentially explain some of the high West European admixture scores in West African individuals. On second thought, the desert slave route ran through this area too. Finally it is worth mentioning the relatedness of mtdna L1, L2 and L3 and the elevated frequency of mtdna L in the Iberian peninsula and Sub-Saharan Southwest Africa.
 
There's no such elevated MtDNA L in Iberia. The most elevated figures were got in a study in Alcacer do Sal (Portugal) including only 50 samples, which is pure joke. 0 evidence to make a claim like this.

The Eupedia "others" category say 7% for Spain, and icludes the following: The "Other" category includes mostly the older haplogroups N, R, pre-HV and HV, but also occasionally a few African (L) or Asian haplogroups (A, B, C, D, M, Z).

It worth to add that the Mediterranean component found in Iberia is mostly Southwestern, being specially dominant in the Northeast side sometimes, which is the most removed from Sub-Saharan Africans as the Euro7 Calculator shows in the Fst distances: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...Gd1UEFIbzVlUEtpbTd0S0RLcnVYTEE&hl=en_US#gid=1

In short: I don't see a significant connection for remarking this. It is obviously not important, without denying some minor admixture could exist.
 
There's no such elevated MtDNA L in Iberia. The most elevated figures were got in a study in Alcacer do Sal (Portugal) including only 50 samples, which is pure joke. 0 evidence to make a claim like this.

The Eupedia "others" category say 7% for Spain, and icludes the following: The "Other" category includes mostly the older haplogroups N, R, pre-HV and HV, but also occasionally a few African (L) or Asian haplogroups (A, B, C, D, M, Z).

It worth to add that the Mediterranean component found in Iberia is mostly Southwestern, being specially dominant in the Northeast side sometimes, which is the most removed from Sub-Saharan Africans as the Euro7 Calculator shows in the Fst distances: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...Gd1UEFIbzVlUEtpbTd0S0RLcnVYTEE&hl=en_US#gid=1

In short: I don't see a significant connection for remarking this. It is obviously not important, without denying some minor admixture could exist.

I was thinking more in the range of 2-3% mtdna L in Iberia with about double that on the West coast, but I would not get too excited if higher frequencies were reported as this may be due to isolated cases of sampling bias as you correctly mention. Elevated frequencies, again no more than 3%, were found in specific parts of Italy (Latium, Basilicata and Sicily) that give us a further indication of Sub-Saharan gene-flow to Southern Europe.

Concerning the Euro7 Fst distances, the African component does not incorporate all Sub-Saharan admixture elements. I am sure the Northwest African went to Southwestern. Sub-Saharan in general refers to the Capoid Palaeo-African and Negroid Neo-African elements. Northwest African admixture is a complex mix of Neo-African, Mediterranean, West Asian/Caucasus and IMHO a bit of East African originating quite possibly from the Arab sub-structure within Berber ancestry.
 
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North Africans were more Southeastern than Southwestern as I showed in the Euro7 post, and according to what you write: NW African elements seem to converge with West Asian and Mediterranean elements with traces of Neo African (West Africa) being a unique trait of the NW African admixture signature.

That means the Southeastern is the one including Northwest African and also Southwest Asian (see Turks, Armenians, etc.). Southeastern is the closest one to Caucasian (West Asian) and the closest one to Africans (Sub-Saharan), so following your argument the match is there, not in the Southwestern.

Also, the Southeastern I got (4.91%) more or less corresponded to the non European I usually get, from 0 to 10% depending on the level of resolution. However, it's the worst defined component, and it must be interpreted carefully. For example, it's obvious that the Armenian Southeastern includes more non European element than in Greeks, but it's difficult to determine the exact percent.

In a K=12 style including the Northwest African component, we'll see if it reduces a lot the Iberian Southwestern if the incoming v4 is based on this. I personally don't expect nothing drastic considering the mentioned points.
 

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