Bestiality the new Homosexuality?

[Fire Haired14]

It's totally absurd, as I said, to equate what two consenting adults do in their bedrooms to pedophilia and bestiality. It is indeed about informed consent and whether there is any harm to the other partner and to the larger society.

Everything that is wrong is not because it harms someone. Other morality is hard to explain but is real. And why is harming someone bad? Can you explain that? See what I mean, morality isn't a science. Basing it on whether it harms someone makes some feel like they've broken it down to a science but they haven't.

I personally find the sexual promiscuity and total lack of responsibility exhibited by some heterosexual men, like the notorious man who fathered twenty children while on assistance and can support none of them, damn reprehensible too. The only recourse we have as a society is to incarcerate men like him for non-payment of child support, for which I would increase the penalty and make the counts consecutive for each child and each infraction. Done right you could lock him up for twenty years, and good riddance. Why should society pay to support his offspring and then suffer their dysfunctional behavior in years to come?

I totally agree.

I would really urge people to do some reading on the subject of human sexuality, especially young people who don't have much worldly experience. Are people "born" homosexual? I don't know for sure, but the research seems to be leaning in that direction.

I feel the same way.

There's also, among certain boys and young men, "sexual" activity to exert power, as in hazing or fraternity rituals. This doesn't make someone "gay", although it may be illegal given a certain set of circumstances.

And those people are screwed up in the head. That is not normal for guys at all AFAIK. "Ha, I'm going to dominate you by having sex with you". WTF? IMO, it's either big tough guys who are secretly gay or guys who are obsessed with being dark and vulgar.

Sexual preferences sort of solidify at some point, with the majority as heterosexuals. However, given certain situational contexts, the behavior might be expressed again. Are there people nowadays who were not "born" gay but because of relaxed societal attitudes have homosexual sex? Probably.

That's wrong just as an 8 year old kid and 30 year old man having consensual sex is wrong.

It doesn't matter to me. So long as none of this harms another person and is totally consensual, and by that I mean there is no abusive power relationship of any kind, then I don't think it's anyone else's business. So long as these conditions are met, I'm far more concerned with how people behave outside their bedrooms, both toward me and toward the society as a whole, and the havoc they can create there.

See, this is a value the Western world as lost. We are ignoring our instinct that tells us certain things behind closed doors are wrong, because we think they're illogical(harm is all that matters......) thoughts. Certain behavior in certain relationships is inappropriate and wrong even is no one is harmed. Sex between two men who are not naturally gay is an example.

@Fire-Haired,

Maleth is correct by the way. You're participated in these discussions over and over again, but you never do the research. Reading may not be a favorite or easy endeavor for you but there is no substitute for it.

I rarely participate in these discussions. Maybe a few times a year I'll post something about this. I haven't done research because I rarely ever think about it. I don't care very much. No one has the time to become an expert in every subject that rarely catches their interest. But, sure I will read stuff on it.

I already have a little bit. The little I read says Gay men don't have the sexuality of women, they have the same sexual behavior as straight men. The way the male and female sexual brain works is very differnt and gay men's brain works the same as straight men. This weakens arguments that claim gay men have female sexual brains, something I've argued against here before.

Until you do it there's no point in repeating the same things over and over again.

I keep repeating them because they're right. You guys refuse to face my argument head on because you can't beat it. You give the "consensual" argument, I face the argument head on, then you repeat yourself without responding to me.

 

[Fire Haired14]

@Angela, kyrani99,

You pointed out good examples of bad behavior that should be illegal.

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Can anyone refute these bullet points??!!!!

>Human sexuality can be perverted, bestiality is prove of this.

>In certain relationships humans have sex is not appropriate.

>If some gay people are not born gay but have gay-sex, you can therefore argue it is inappropriate and wrong. Don't let your anger over this bullet point stop you from seeing the logic.

>Changes during puberty are for hetero sex(attracting the opposite sex and producing babies) and adult life. Homosexuality is strange in this sense. Gays have the same sexual behavior as their straight counter parts. So, why and how are they gay? Did it evolve for social relationships, because if natural it must be mostly an off-shoot of heterosexuality.

 

[sparkey]

Sexual preferences sort of solidify at some point, with the majority as heterosexuals. However, given certain situational contexts, the behavior might be expressed again. Are there people nowadays who were not "born" gay but because of relaxed societal attitudes have homosexual sex? Probably.

That's wrong just as an 8 year old kid and 30 year old man having consensual sex is wrong.

Please tell me I'm misreading you and you're not suggesting that heterosexuals having consensual homosexual sex is the moral equivalent of a 30 year old man raping an 8 year old.

 

[Fire Haired14]

Please tell me I'm misreading you and you're not suggesting that heterosexuals having consensual homosexual sex is the moral equivalent of a 30 year old man raping an 8 year old.

Of course child rape is worse. I was discussing consensual sex between a child and adult, not rape of children by adults.

@Angela,

Plenty of young boys/girls are attracted to adult women/men and some adult women/men are attracted to young boys/girls. If you're against such relationships why? And I'm not saying would if child-adult sex legal, which would allow adults to abuse children. I'm saying for a small individual case of adult-child relations that are consensual, would it be morally okay because no one is harmed?

 

[Maleth]

My homosexual friends certainly report that's the case. I do think the science indicates that human sexuality is more fluid than many think. It's on a continuum. There's interesting research being done on primates too in that regard. There's a certain amount of "sexual play"

Indeed Angela. there are only 2 year between myself and my brother and I am a homo and he is hetero we had the same mother same environment, never was molested and never had porn around (very conservative family) so if any of those make a difference why are we different? I never had to choose and never felt attracted towards having sex with a women since adolescence and always attracted to men. Why would anyone want to choose to be homosexual anyway with all the hardships and visible and non visible persecution it does bring? I yet have to hear of a gay person saying they had to choose to become homosexual and even my hetero friends never said they felt to have to make a choice they always knew what they wanted. What a storm in a teacup....and for what?

On the other hand I know Both Men and Women who indeed faked there marriage for different reasons and only after a long time they admitted to their sexuality (I mean some of them look pretty obvious masculine women or effeminate men) who 'came out' later in life and invented a thousand story to cover up their fake behavior but now have become comfortable with themselves........what a waste of a life. And Islamic and African countries still criminalize homosexuals.

 

[sparkey]

Of course child rape is worse. I was discussing consensual sex between a child and adult, not rape of children by adults.

@Angela,

Plenty of young boys/girls are attracted to adult women/men and some adult women/men are attracted to young boys/girls. If you're against such relationships why? And I'm not saying would if child-adult sex legal, which would allow adults to abuse children. I'm saying for a small individual case of adult-child relations that are consensual, would it be morally okay because no one is harmed?

OK, we've got to get our definitions of "consent" in line here. Very few people would argue that an 8 year old could consent to sex, so any time a 30 year old has sex with an 8 year old, it is rape. I guess you're using a loose definition of the term "consent" and taking it to mean simply "agreeing to something." That's not a good way to think about things when it comes to distinguishing between consensual sex and rape.

 

[Maleth]

Of course child rape is worse. I was discussing consensual sex between a child and adult, not rape of children by adults.

what does an 8 year old child know about sex? how can they consent exactly?

 

[Maleth]

 

[Fire Haired14]

OK, we've got to get our definitions of "consent" in line here. Very few people would argue that an 8 year old could consent to sex, so any time a 30 year old has sex with an 8 year old, it is rape.

Not true. People have sexual feelings starting at 4-5 years old. An 8 year old and an adult could have consensual relations. Certainly a 10 or 12 year old. Most 10-12 year olds are attracted to adults, and so theoretically would consent, but most wouldn't because it is inappropriate for adults and kids to have relations.

I guess you're using a loose definition of the term "consent" and taking it to mean simply "agreeing to something." That's not a good way to think about things when it comes to distinguishing between consensual sex and rape.

If someone agrees it is not rape. The kid doesn't have to feel anything. No one is harmed, so by Angela's philosophy it is okay.

Conclusion: My scenario still stands as realistic.

 

[LeBrok]

Indeed Angela. there are only 2 year between myself and my brother and I am a homo and he is hetero we had the same mother same environment, never was molested and never had porn around (very conservative family) so if any of those make a difference why are we different? I never had to choose and never felt attracted towards having sex with a women since adolescence and always attracted to men. Why would anyone want to choose to be homosexual anyway with all the hardships and visible and non visible persecution it does bring? I yet have to hear of a gay person saying they had to choose to become homosexual and even my hetero friends never said they felt to have to make a choice they always knew what they wanted. What a storm in a teacup....and for what?

On the other hand I know Both Men and Women who indeed faked there marriage for different reasons and only after a long time they admitted to their sexuality (I mean some of them look pretty obvious masculine women or effeminate men) who 'came out' later in life and invented a thousand story to cover up their fake behavior but now have become comfortable with themselves........what a waste of a life. And Islamic and African countries still criminalize homosexuals.

I agree, these are best reasons pointing to sexuality being genetic.

 

[LeBrok]

What does that mean?! A devil is tempting animals to go astray, so they don't go to heaven?

 

[LeBrok]

Not true. People have sexual feelings starting at 4-5 years old. An 8 year old and an adult could have consensual relations. Certainly a 10 or 12 year old. Most 10-12 year olds are attracted to adults, and so theoretically would consent, but most wouldn't because it is inappropriate for adults and kids to have relations.

I don't think it works this way before puberty. A sight of a beautiful women won't give an erection to a boy.

If someone agrees it is not rape. The kid doesn't have to feel anything. No one is harmed, so by Angela's philosophy it is okay.

Conclusion: My scenario still stands as realistic.

How should we put it in simple well understandable terms:
Kids are to be protected by parents. Kids don't have full rights and privileges of adults. Only adults can make concussion, independent, free and fully consensual decision.

 

[LeBrok]

I found these two articles from another forum which suggests Bestiality(Having sex with animals) is more common than most would think. IMO, bestiality is today's homosexuality. No one wants to talk about it but knows it exists and are disgusted by it. People are scared by it and react with anger and violence to those who practice it.

If bestiality is a perversion why can't most homosexuality be a perversion? Human sexuality can be perverted, this has been proven. We need to question the status quo view on homosexuality the elites and majority of the public have. And we need to end the creepy obsession many have with homosexuality and transgenderism(Bruce Jenner, etc.).

Do 275,000 Swiss people have sex with animals?
Dog lover loved dog far too much: court

According to the first article a guy in the 1950's; Alfred Kinsey, estimated Bestiality in Americans. He concluded 8% of American men and 3.5% American women have had sexual contact with animals. He updated this in the 1970s with 5% for men and 2% for women.

Surprising right. Considering how little contact humans have with animals as opposed to people of the same gender, it would make sense homoseuxal behavior is even more popular yet can still usually be a perversion.

The second article is about a Swiss man who had sex with his dogs for years and was a member in pro-bestiality forums. He claimed one of his dogs is his "Life companion".

The reactions of people in the forum where this was posted was anger and disgust. They wanted these people who practice bestiality dead. Many countries ban it and send those who practice it to physiologist. Sound familiar? That's the exact same way conservatives all over the world react to homosexuality. Yet, these same people who see zoophiles as mentally ill and needed of punishment, support homosexuals.

Just because in recent years the elite in our world have accepted homosexuality and just because it is now looked down on to consider it a perversion, doesn't mean we have to obey what they say like sheep.

Most who are 100% pro gay rights IMO don't give solid evidence homosexuality is not a perversion. They refuse to admit human sexuality can be perverted. They're just for freedom to do what you want. This is a stupid philosophy because, there's needs to be a limit or else there'll be chaos. If lets say animals weren't harmed by zoophiles should be allow sex with animals? Most would say no. And the reasons are the same reasons conservatives don't accept homosexuality. Yet Liberals call them crazy.

I want you guys to question the new western society's views on homosexuality. I wouldn't be surprised if there are people born homosexual. It's totally possible. But we have to consider the possibility some who claim to be homosexual are not. The creepy obsession our society has with it(There are gay characters and romances in so many popular TV shows) needs to be corrected even if some are naturally gay.

If you look at how our bodies work and puberty, homosexuality doesn't make sense. Are there really women attracted to breasts, attracted to effeminate behavior, and want to .......... other women?

What got into you again?!!!
This is nuts. I never heard or seen any sexual act involving human and animals. I know thousands of people and lived in three countries. Except for few jocks about Shepard and Catherine the Great, I never heard about such thing from any of my friend or acquaintances. Not even a gossip of suspicion that someone is doing this. It must be extremely rear phenomenon indeed. However, with seven billion people on this plant we can be pretty sure that whatever is physically possible people will do from time to time.
But why are you preoccupied with this?! Should you be more concerned with car accidents? We all experienced it, we all know people disabled or dead because of it. Car accidents are very destructive to our society with billions of dollars in cost and million of people dead every year. Unlike, supposedly people having sex with animals. Car accidents are caused by mistakes made by people and are totally avoidable if we stop driving. They didn't exist 100 years ago, but now it is an epidemic around the world. Why are you quite about that?
Why don't you voice your opinion about this serious issue, issue which bringing death and misery to humankind, and leave cats and dogs alone? Actually, leave gays alone and go play with cats and dogs instead.

I support Angela's motion that this tread should be deleted. To compare homosexuality to bestiality is simply wrong and evil.
This is what Muslim fundamentalists do, or any other religious fundamentalists.

 

[Fire Haired14]

I don't think it works this way before puberty. A sight of a beautiful women won't give an erection to a boy.

Doesn't mean kids don't have sexual feelings or want to get with an adult.

Kids are to be protected by parents. Kids don't have full rights and privileges of adults. Only adults can make concussion, independent, free and fully consensual decision.

I'm not saying "would if sex was allowed between adults and kids", I'm saying "Would if one child and one adult wanted consensual relations". It isn't rape. When I was 10 or 12 I'd be all for that, and I'd bet money most 10 or 12 year olds would. Not answering my question don't prove anything.

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How about this scenario: An adult mother, daughter, and son living together have sex with protection so they don't get pregnant. They keep it behind closed doors, no one gets sick, no one gets pregnant, no one feels guilty, no one gets harmed period. Is this okay?

EDIT: Scared? I've put you and Angela in a pickel you can't get out of. Just admit consent and whether people are harmed isn't all that matters.

 

[Fire Haired14]

I support Angela's motion that this tread should be deleted. To compare homosexuality to bestiality is simply wrong and evil.
This is what Muslim fundamentalists do, or any other religious fundamentalists.

Because I dis agree with you on homosexuality I'm comparable to Muslim Fundamentalist? LOL. I guess homosexuality is a done deal, anyone who dis agrees with the Liberal position is a crazy nut ball? That's ideological censorship. My view is labelled as "evil" and therefore unattractive and my threads will be shut down, even though I threat no one and am just discussing an idea. Dude, you need to look at yourself in the mirror you're becoming an ideologically dictator. Only certain views and discussions are allowed under your mighty leadership.

The way society sees bestiality today is similar to how homosexuality was seen 30, 60 years ago. I'm not saying they're similar(read the first sentence).

Also, Would if: Homosexuality wasn't natural like bestiality.

In this case they would be similar. So, I'm questioning the assumption all gays are born that way(it has been proven human sexuality can be perverted). And because in certain human relationships sexual behavior isn't appropriate, we can argue sexual relations between non-gay people is wrong.

 

[LeBrok]

Doesn't mean kids don't have sexual feelings

They have no desire to have sex with someone before puberty. Perhaps you want to define you carpet statement "sexual feelings".

or want to get with an adult.

No idea what you mean. Try to communicate with well defined concepts and phrases.

I'm not saying "would if sex was allowed between adults and kids", I'm saying "Would if one child and one adult wanted consensual relations". It isn't rape. When I was 10 or 12 I'd be all for that, and I'd bet money most 10 or 12 year olds would. Not answering my question don't prove anything.

Ok, now we are moving in realm of puberty. By arguments presented by many of us here, no adult can have consensual sex with kids, period.
By same token kids are not allowed to be soldiers. Technically they could, the best example are child soldiers in African conflicts (I'm sure you are familiar with that), but it was psychologically and physically extremely harmful to them. There is not even one Documentary glorifying child soldiers, and all interviews point the a terrible psychological damage they received. Even if some of them consented to the war, we know how sick idea it was. Kids are not ready for many adult experiences, that's why need to be protected, even if they think they consent, they just can't.

How about this scenario: An adult mother, daughter, and son living together have sex with protection so they don't get pregnant. They keep it behind closed doors, no one gets sick, no one gets pregnant, no one feels guilty, no one gets harmed period. Is this okay?

Kids get harmed, period.

EDIT: Scared? I've put you and Angela in a pickel you can't get out of. Just admit consent and whether people are harmed isn't all that matters.

Judging by your preoccupation with above described "reality" or rather inner demons you are fighting, I'm not sure what canceling to advise. Now, that's a pickle, and might be a lifelong one.

 

[LeBrok]

Because I dis agree with you on homosexuality I'm comparable to Muslim Fundamentalist? LOL. I guess homosexuality is a done deal, anyone who dis agrees with the Liberal position is a crazy nut ball? That's ideological censorship. My view is labelled as "evil" and therefore unattractive and my threads will be shut down, even though I threat no one and am just discussing an idea. Dude, you need to look at yourself in the mirror you're becoming an ideologically dictator. Only certain views and discussions are allowed under your mighty leadership.

We already have many threads dedicated to gay issue. You just needed to open one that insults homosexuals. Now this is antisocial, immoral and just wrong. And we know you did it on purpose.
If you want to express your homophobia in any way you like it I advise you to do it on your own website. Comprende?

So, I'm questioning the assumption all gays are born that way(it has been proven human sexuality can be perverted).

This is what you want to believe in spite of all the evidence. There are also asexual people. They don't want to have sex at all. Are you against them too?

And because in certain human relationships sexual behavior isn't appropriate, we can argue sexual relations between non-gay people is wrong.

Again, there is no sense in this sentence.

 

[Fire Haired14]

They have no desire to have sex with someone before puberty. Perhaps you want to define you carpet statement "sexual feelings".

Sexual feelings is self-explanatory. Feel attraction, feel sexual feelings. Penis can get hard in kindergarten.

No idea what you mean. Try to communicate with well defined concepts and phrases.

You don't know what I mean by "get with"? You know exactly what I mean, and are just looking for something to make me look unintelligent.

Ok, now we are moving in realm of puberty. By arguments presented by many of us here, no adult can have consensual sex with kids, period.
By same token kids are not allowed to be soldiers.

10-12 year olds can have consensual relations with adults. It doesn't have to be sex. For the adult male it can be. So, my question still stands. But I know no one will answer it.

Kids are not ready for many adult experiences, that's why need to be protected, even if they think they consent, they just can't.

Not true. By 12 years lots of kids date. Why can't they have relations with an adult?

Judging by your preoccupation of above discribed "reality" or rather inner demons you are fighting, I'm not sure what canceling to advise. Now, that's a pickle, and might be a life long one.

Oh my gosh, just answer the question man! Or skip to the good part, admit consent and whether someone is harmed is not all that matters. I'm not fighting any "inner demons". You should know by now having these intense interests, like genetics, is just apart of my personality.

 

[LeBrok]

Sexual feelings is self-explanatory. Feel attraction, feel sexual feelings. Penis can get hard in kindergarten.

Of course it can, but not due to sexual desire. You rub it and it will get up. It doesn't mean it was excited and ready for a sexual act. Niples can harden in cold weather. Does it mean they want sex?!

You don't know what I mean by "get with"? You know exactly what I mean, and are just looking for something to make me look unintelligent.

Same way you are misleading us with "sexual feelings". Erected penis for you means sex only, although it might just get up automatically like it does in the morning.

10-12 year olds can have consensual relations with adults. It doesn't have to be sex. For the adult male it can be. So, my question still stands. But I know no one will answer it.

We don't allow it on grounds of harm to kids, period. And it will never be allowed. Kids are harmed, get it finally!

Not true. By 12 years lots of kids date. Why can't they have relations with an adult?

Because they will get harmed. Kids are vulnerable, not ready, growing slowly, need protection, etc. Perhaps, you would want kids to chose, either to go to school, play all day, or maybe get a job, as long as they consent, right?

Oh my gosh, just answer the question man! Or skip to the good part, admit consent and whether someone is harmed is not all that matters. I'm not fighting any "inner demons". You should know by now having these intense interests, like genetics, is just apart of my personality.

Would you describe yourself as religious fundamentalist?

 

[Fire Haired14]

Of course it can, but not due to sexual desire. You rub it and it will get up. It doesn't mean it was excited and ready for a sexual act. Niples can harden in cold weather. Does it mean they want sex?!

Not sex but attraction. First time a boy wants boobs is around 10 years old. They can consent.

Same way you are misleading us with "sexual feelings". Erected penis for you means sex only, although it might just get up automatically like it does in the morning.

I don't think it is only for sex. I think pre-pubescent boys have it because of attraction not sex. I had in kindergarten because of my teacher.

We don't allow it on grounds of harm to kids, period. And it will never be allowed. Kids are harmed, get it finally!

I agree it shouldn't be allowed. I agree kids can't have sex. However I'm not talking about making it legal. I'm talking about a single case where no one is harmed. Average 12 year old would be very happy if their hot teacher came on to him. No harm involved. What about a 13 or 14 year old who's just become sexually mature?

Seems the boys had just hut puberty. Is it okay then? This was easy to find.

How Mary Kay Letourneau Went From Having Sex With a 6th Grader to Becoming His Wife
Malia Brooks, 6th-Grade Teacher, Arrested For Alleged Sex Crimes On Minor Student (UPDATED)

Because they will get harmed. Kids are vulnerable, not ready, growing slowly, need protection, etc. Perhaps, you would want kids to chose, either to go to school, play all day, or maybe get a job, as long as they consent, right?

No way.

Would you describe yourself as religious fundamentalist?

That's not an answer. Anyways, I don't fall under most characteristics associated with fundamentalism. I'm Christian.

Question agian.
How about this scenario: An adult mother, daughter, and son living together have sex with protection so they don't get pregnant. They keep it behind closed doors, no one gets sick, no one gets pregnant, no one feels guilty, no one gets harmed period. Is this okay?