Bronze Age Epirus

[LATGAL]

As for the road, from 1928 it was expressed the theory of Vucedol-Vatin, straight through the Aquatic (rivers) roads of central balkans to lake Lycnitis (Ohrid) some call it Doric, some call it Mycenean, Giannopoulos describes it at his book through archaiological way,
But could that lead to long Corridor Mycenean palaces culture? or stops to Central Greece to proto-Greeks.
The last I can not decide or support.

Yeah, from what I remember, Giannopoulos mentions (among others) the theory of a potential connection of proto-Greek with Cetina, one of the post-Vucedol cultures, but also brings up that it might be hard to make it account for the known historical spread of Greek considering it seems to affect mostly the Ionian seaboard and the Peloponnese. It's always possible that the exchange was mostly cultural or that it brought some (IE) population elements but non-Greek ones (though the West Balkans of that period are a very plausible source for both Greek and Albanian). It's hard to say when we only have J2a and G so far which seem rather connected with the pre-Greek population.

 

[Yetos]

tt/ss at least in Attic can descend from *tj, *ḱj, *kj, *kʷj (sometimes) or *dʰj, *ǵʰj, *gʰj, *gʷʰj (regularly)

I am not sure what is the mainstream view today but I think it has been said that it represented a [ts] sound of some short.
I don't know what the root of the word Moloss-oi would have been.

θάλασσα is one of the words which are considered 'pre-Greek'. Peronally, I think it is related to ἅλς háls = salt and the other IE words with similar meaning, but the sound changes are considered irregural.

The third word definetely has cognates in Albanian. The word 'mjaltë' is considered a cognate and bl can descend from ml.

Greek word for sea is αλσο Αλς
but female gender

Notice sitting παρα θιν αλος (to dunes of sea, not dunes of salt)

masculine gender αλς = salt
Female gender aλς = sea

at koine which is evolution of Ionian-Attic masculine turns to Neutral
from αλς αλος το Αλας Αλατος, *

comparing the above
female Αλς Αλος could turn to a form Αλασσα
THE FIRST WHO USED THE TERM IF REMEMBER CORRECT WAS THE ATHENEANS AT THE DESCENT OF 10 000 'Θαλαττα Θαλαττα'

* Αλυκες the place of gather but λυσσα the extra salt in food

anyway the strange is the Θ infront not the Αλαττα -Αλασσα

I agree with you.

Αλς is the glottal key,

Αλ-ιεια
Παρ-Αλ-ια
Αλ-υκη
Αλ-μυρος


Achileus walked ΠΑΡΑ ΘΙΝ ΑΛ-ΟΣ to find his mother.

 

[Yetos]

Yeah, from what I remember, Giannopoulos mentions (among others) the theory of a potential connection of proto-Greek with Cetina, one of the post-Vucedol cultures, but also brings up that it might be hard to make it account for the known historical spread of Greek considering it seems to affect mostly the Ionian seaboard and the Peloponnese. It's always possible that the exchange was mostly cultural or that it brought some (IE) population elements but non-Greek ones (though the West Balkans of that period are a very plausible source for both Greek and Albanian). It's hard to say when we only have J2a and G so far which seem rather connected with the pre-Greek population.

at !928 BleGen notice an archaiological conectivity and a kind of road, that pass through Aquatic river roads to Makedonia and Thessaly
he named it the descent of Dorians, Although today the term is wrong the strange connectivity exists, since Dorians were after collapse of Mycaeneans
Giannopoulos combined it With the IE theory of a wider Yamnaa and proposed the Myceneans
the dates seems correct, it is an archaiological mark,
that gives Mycenean to first settle around Wider Makedonia then Thessaly and then to their high culture center Peloponese.
But after the Last genetics, new questions are born.
and first is
MYCAENEANS CAME STRAIGHT FROM MINOR ASIA TO PELOPONESE?
OR MYCENEANS CAME FROM MINOR ASIA TO CENTER AIMOS PENINSULA or EVEN Far to ISTROS AND THEN MOVED SOUTH?

I can not have an answer to that,

I believe Myceneans came straight to S Greece
and the devastation Giannopoulos describes is what we call Proto-Greek or Hellenic or NW Greeks.
but it just a believe, not to be taken serious plz

 

[LAB]

Greek word for sea is αλσο Αλς
but female gender

Notice sitting παρα θιν αλος (to dunes of sea, not dunes of salt)

masculine gender αλς = salt
Female gender aλς = sea

at koine which is evolution of Ionian-Attic masculine turns to Neutral
from αλς αλος το Αλας Αλατος, *

comparing the above
female Αλς Αλος could turn to a form Αλασσα
THE FIRST WHO USED THE TERM IF REMEMBER CORRECT WAS THE ATHENEANS AT THE DESCENT OF 10 000 'Θαλαττα Θαλαττα'

* Αλυκες the place of gather but λυσσα the extra salt in food

anyway the strange is the Θ infront not the Αλαττα -Αλασσα

I agree with you.

Αλς is the glottal key,

Αλ-ιεια
Παρ-Αλ-ια
Αλ-υκη
Αλ-μυρος


Achileus walked ΠΑΡΑ ΘΙΝ ΑΛ-ΟΣ to find his mother.

'Αλ-ιεια' (fishing) it's not related with 'Λεια' (prey,loot,etc) ?

Your method doesn't seems to be scientific.

'Αλ-μυρος' is also found 'Αρ-μυρος' L/R rotation

Θ in front of Αλαττα - Αλασσα is because the primitive word is 'Θαλαττα' not 'Αλαττα'

Or do you believe that ancient Greeks before naming the sea they've already named the salt of the sea?

 

[Ownstyler]

You have misrepresented what I said, and what papers said in every single post.

Please read more carefully so you understand the point the sources are trying to make. You'll make less errors.

Would you like to quote my most outrageously erroneous statement Angela?

 

[A. Papadimitriou]

Yeah, from what I remember, Giannopoulos mentions (among others) the theory of a potential connection of proto-Greek with Cetina, one of the post-Vucedol cultures, but also brings up that it might be hard to make it account for the known historical spread of Greek considering it seems to affect mostly the Ionian seaboard and the Peloponnese. It's always possible that the exchange was mostly cultural or that it brought some (IE) population elements but non-Greek ones (though the West Balkans of that period are a very plausible source for both Greek and Albanian). It's hard to say when we only have J2a and G so far which seem rather connected with the pre-Greek population.

I don't believe proto-Greeks had anything to do with Vucedol or R1b-Z2013 / Z2015.

 

[Yetos]

'Αλ-ιεια' (fishing) it's not related with 'Λεια' (prey,loot,etc) ?

Your method doesn't seems to be scientific.

'Αλ-μυρος' is also found 'Αρ-μυρος' L/R rotation

Θ in front of Αλαττα - Αλασσα is because the primitive word is 'Θαλαττα' not 'Αλαττα'

Or do you believe that ancient Greeks before naming the sea they've already named the salt of the sea?

@ LAB plz,

Αλς Salt Sallila Sal etc
it is just simple IE,

Ι wrote
Αλ-ιεια not λεια
Αλ-ιευς

plz man,

if the word was S-alatta then everyboby would said Greek from IE origin
because it is Θ-Alatta we all have a question,

plz understand what I wrote
and do not say I wrote Λεια when I wrote Αλ-ιεια

 

[blevins13]

I said clearly.

Proto-Greeks were not Myceneans, neither Minoans,
Even in Iliad is obvious the Myrmidones and the Myceneans,

when we say Myceneans is a clear IE culture of long corridor palaces etc
it is one of the ancestors of Hellenic culture
But Proto-greeks is another story,
We speak about the Dorians, the Epirotans the Makedonians,
who were in touch with Myceneans,

Proto-Greek is earlier by few centuries to Mycenean
and is the ones who stabilize Helladic space to a unification movement
after the collapse of Mycenae and Sea peoples.

These tribes called NW Greek plus Mycenae is IE branch of ancient Greeks as we know them,
Minoans is still a wondering if IE or not,
but with Minoans and Pelasgians is the Greek nationality as created among 1100 to 900 BC,

Wow, Yetos has dropped the Mycenaean....a month ago he was claiming Doric invasion was an inner devastation between Greeks, now he claims that Mycenaean are not Greeks. I think going forward will see other wonders.


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[A. Papadimitriou]

Wow, Yetos has dropped the Mycenaean....a month ago he was claiming Doric invasion was an inner devastation between Greeks, now he claims that Mycenaean are not Greeks. I think going forward will see other wonders.

You seem to have reading comprehension problems.

 

[blevins13]

You seem to have reading comprehension problems.

Illuminate me.....it is not easy to understand Yetos.


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[Yetos]

Wow, Yetos has dropped the Mycenaean....a month ago he was claiming Doric invasion was an inner devastation between Greeks, now he claims that Mycenaean are not Greeks. I think going forward will see other wonders.


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the Wow is up to You,

since you did not read what I write,
I just return you the
WOW Blevins is half reading posts

 

[blevins13]

I see your point now....did not read carefully your post. So the Bronze Age collapse did not bring new people in Epirus.....


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[Jovani]

I see your point now....did not read carefully your post. So the Bronze Age collapse did not bring new people in Epirus.....

What Yetos' saying seems to be true, but Yetos have some difficulties to name Mycenaens and Proper Hellenes with their real actual name. Mycaneans were a mixture of Pelasgians with Danaic people, while Hellenes were mainly Illyrians represented from Hylleans(or the Heraclidae named by Yllos-Ὕλλος) mixed with Dorians a Pelasgic tribe represented by the sons of Aigimus(Αἰγίμιος).

 

[ihype02]

What Yetos' saying seems to be true, but Yetos have some difficulties to name Mycenaens and Proper Hellenes with their real actual name. Mycaneans were a mixture of Pelasgians with Danaic people, while Hellenes were mainly Illyrians represented from Hylleans(or the Heraclidae named by Yllos-Ὕλλος) mixed with Dorians a Pelasgic tribe represented by the sons of Aigimus(Αἰγίμιος).

Hellenes were not Illyrians. Hellene according to Herodotus subtittles Dorian. Illyrians were a different/saparated enthos.

 

[Jovani]

Hellenes were not Illyrians. Hellene according to Herodotus subtittles Dorian. Illyrians were a different/saparated enthos.

You fake Albanian account, need to read this:
https://books.google.ca/books?id=AD...bAhWj0YMKHZkPB9UQ6AEINTAB#v=onepage&q&f=false

We now turn our attention to the singular nation of the Hylleans which is supposed to have dwelt in Illyria but is in many respects connected in a remarkable manner with the Dorians. The real place of its abode can hardly be laid down as the Hylleans are never mentioned in any historical narrative but always in mythical legends and they appear to have been known to the geographers only from mythological writers. Yet they are generally placed in the islands of Melita and Black Cor cyra to the south of Liburnia . Now the name of the Hylleans agrees strikingly with that of the first and most noble tribe of the Dorians. Besides which it is stated that though dwelling among Illyrian races these Hylleans were nevertheless genuine Greeks. Moreover they as well as the Doric Hylleans were supposed to have sprung from Hyllus a son of Hercules whom that hero begot upon Melite the daughter of iEgseus here the name Aegeus refers to a river in Corcyra Melite to the island just mentioned Apollo was the chief god of the Dorians; and so likewise these Hylleans were said to have concealed under the earth as the sign of inviolable sanctity that instrument of such importance in the religion of Apollo a tripod d. The country of the Hylleans is described as a large peninsula and compared to Peloponnesus, it is said to have contained fifteen cities which however had not a more real existence than the peninsula as large as Peloponnesus on the Illyrian coast. How all these statements are to be understood is hard to say. It appears however that they can only be reconciled as follows the Doric Hylleans had a tradition that they came originally from these northern districts which then bordered on the Illyrians and were afterwards occupied by that people and there still remained in those parts some members of their tribe some other Hylleans This notion of Greek Hylleans in the very north of Greece who also were descended from Hercules and also worshipped Apollo was taken up and embellished by the poets, although it is not likely that any one had really ever seen these Hylleans and visited their country.

 

[Yetos]

What Yetos' saying seems to be true, but Yetos have some difficulties to name Mycenaens and Proper Hellenes with their real actual name. Mycaneans were a mixture of Pelasgians with Danaic people, while Hellenes were mainly Illyrians represented from Hylleans(or the Heraclidae named by Yllos-Ὕλλος) mixed with Dorians a Pelasgic tribe represented by the sons of Aigimus(Αἰγίμιος).

plz I have no problem,

as Hylleians or Υλλας?

so by just using mythology

Hercules born a son who was Illyrian?
and one of the forefathers of Dorians?
without Hercules beeing Illyrian?
or hercules was also Illyrian?

I thing the answer is not that tough,

and becarefull
cause if hylleians were illyrians,
then Hylleia = Illyria was lang Aigimos King of Dorians. before,

 

[Jovani]

plz I have no problem,as Hylleians or Υλλας?

Hylleans named after Hyllus (Ὕλλος) also Hyllas [Ὕλᾱς] or Hylles

so by just using mythology

that's all we have about Greek history

Hercules born a son who was Illyrian?

Yes

and one of the forefathers of Dorians?

The main one actually, the king of Heracleidae who created Hellenes

without Hercules beeing Illyrian?or hercules was also Illyrian?

I will get back to you, with an answer, when science filters out all the absurdities of Greek mythology, or filters mythological figures out of historical ones.

I thing the answer is not that tough,

Completely agree, it's right in front of us, but some are ignoring it, because is not convenient for them

and becarefull cause if hylleians were illyrians,then Hylleia = Illyria was lang Aigimos King of Dorians. before,

Hylleia was the land of Hyllus in Illyria and Phithia the land of Dorus, Aegimus father. The myth/history makes them all Dorians or Hellenes.

 

[Yetos]

Hylleans named after Hyllus (Ὕλλος) also Hyllas [Ὕλᾱς] or Hylles



that's all we have about Greek history


Yes

The main one actually, the king of Heracleidae who created Hellenes

I will get back to you, with an answer, when science filters out all the absurdities of Greek mythology, or filters mythological figures out of historical ones.



Completely agree, it's right in front of us, but some are ignoring it, because is not convenient for them



Hylleia was the land of Hyllus in Illyria and Phithia the land of Dorus, Aegimus father. The myth/history makes them all Dorians or Hellenes.

Plz Notice

Hercules is moving from S Greece to Peloponese till Olymp
by the basical Myth,
and then his ancestors return back,
I prefer the term return of Temenedae, Τημενιδων

So Hyllas should be born somewhere around mt Olymp,
if Hyllas was Illyrian as you say,
Then we have 3 options
1 Illyrians moved from Central Greece to Illyria,
2 Hercules should be Illyrian, so to have a Illyrian son, or a patriarch a grandfather of both Illyrians and Heracleidae, means homeland of illyrians was Peloponese,
So illyrians come from Hercules and not Kadmos!!!!
3 if Hylleians were Illyrians then Aegimius Kingdom should be 3 times the Illyria, since Aegimus gave them 1/3 of his kingdom,

I do not see a possible exctract of your version to be stable truth,
so either we have a paradox, either the begining thought is wrong,
simple Mathematic Λογος logic

 

[blevins13]

Plz Notice

Hercules is moving from S Greece to Peloponese till Olymp
by the basical Myth,
and then his ancestors return back,
I prefer the term return of Temenedae, Τημενιδων

So Hyllas should be born somewhere around mt Olymp,
if Hyllas was Illyrian as you say,
Then we have 3 options
1 Illyrians moved from Central Greece to Illyria,
2 Hercules should be Illyrian, so to have a Illyrian son, or a patriarch a grandfather of both Illyrians and Heracleidae, means homeland of illyrians was Peloponese,
So illyrians come from Hercules and not Kadmos!!!!
3 if Hylleians were Illyrians then Aegimius Kingdom should be 3 times the Illyria, since Aegimus gave them 1/3 of his kingdom,

I do not see a possible exctract of your version to be stable truth,
so either we have a paradox, either the begining thought is wrong,
simple Mathematic Λογος logic

Yetos myths are not history.....my question is what happened after Bronze Age collapse in Epirus.... I am sure Dna studies will show population change.


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[Yetos]

Yetos myths are not history.....my question is what happened after Bronze Age collapse in Epirus.... I am sure Dna studies will show population change.


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we have to wait and see,
I believe changes are much younger,