Religion Can Muslims live peacefully with Christians, and vice versa?

Actually, my reason is exactly correct, and there's two good examples from history there that prove my point, namely where major Islamic polities ceased to exist because they engaged in orgies of intolerance and extremism. The first is Al-Andalus (Muslim Iberia) under the Almohads, who were much more intolerant of religious minorities (especially Jews) than their forebearers, and who vastly hastened the demise of Muslim Iberia during their rule. Its probable that Al-Andalus would have lasted longer - perhaps even to the present day consider that the last sultan of Granada was unseated in the same year as Columbus discovered the New World) - without this episode. The second example is the Mughal Empire under Aurangzeb, who ruined the Mughal Empire through his widespread progromes and military campaigns against Hindus - the end effect was that he left the entire subcontinent in a destitute condition to be taken over by the English.

As for the Sunni-Shia divide, I will agree with you in so far as that in the talk of right-wing nutjobs in the West, this is a concept that doesn't show up. Instead, the Islamic world is prefered to be viewed as a monolithic, homogenous blob on the map, so that you can justify to perceive it as a "threat" to Western civilization.

you know the history, probably even better than me
but you give the answer yourself, correct me if i'm wrong
indeed the example we always get of tolerant and openminded Muslims in history were the Morish Omayades in Spain, but they forget that they were replaced by the very strict Almohads
weren't the Almohads themselves replaced by the rather fundamentalistic Christian reconquistadores?
and you state yourself that the - contrary to his predecessors - very strict Aurangzeb left the country in chaos till the British came
i don't want to relive this all again in Europe
the fact that ISIS is able to recruit so easily so many of its warriors in Europe by some preachers with a radical vocabulary of hatred doesn't make me optimistic at all
and the fact that many of them are 'converts' and adventurers doesn't make it better, it's the vocabulary that does it

and yes, most non-Muslims don't know about the century-long history of divide and hatred between Sunni and Shia
but as I told, Muslims are embarrased by this and don't talk about it, neither do they want us to talk about it
it seems to me they themselves cannot explain this if Islam is realy 'the religion of love and peace'
 
Bicicleur,
Europe is not secular. This is only an euphemism for some unnamed "secular" religion.
Europe is prosocialistic, proatheistic, prohomosexual, proevolutionistic, antychristian,
and is leading by maoistic belivers of zero-growth, partialy associated with extremly
communist paramasonic group named Grand Orient de France...

Of course, some people belive in that empty phrase... secular... but it is curve ball...

political correctness is the new religion
it's a selfdestructive religion
it won't last, but in the mean time it will have made a lot of damage
 
Islam is realy 'the religion of love and peace'

I think Bicicleur, that this is generaly a false assumption at all.

Islam is at first a religion of Mohammed who claimed to have the true message.
And what it menas love and peace must be filter by his definitions of this words and of goal of Islam.

Love and peace is only for Muslims. Shias are not muslims for sunnis, and sunnis are not muslims for shias.
They are even worse than jews and christians, because they are apostates. That's all.

Islam is from the beginnig going to take the world. But by the world they mostly mean Christendom.
And from the beginning they are doing this by the sword. So, why should they be a religion of peace?
And btw, why at all religion MUST be a religion of peace? Why religion cannot be a religion of war? If
someone expected that, then he will be certainly decived by muslims, who have in their theology so
called taqiyya which allow any muslim to decive unbelivers for spreding Islam.
 
It seems you became a high level işn Islamic doctrine and can decide who is muslim and who is not,

Thanks to share your own ideas, but let's turn back reality.


Boreas you are from Turkey,

A country that started as Shia with Seljouks, become Suni, populated by taqqiya, expelled Bektasi muslims,
and finally today is trebling among Kemalic state, and Sultan-Erdogan state,

I guess you know the difference among Con/polis muslims, to far East/South Turkey radical Islam,

just answer your shelf,
for you, you are maybe a true muslim,
for radical Islamists like Daesh, are you a true Muslim?
and can you live, study, work with a Kufar/.Cafir?

just answer your shelf,
when your imams, say women must not drive,
how will you react?
will you allow your wife to drive?
and if you would, how will you feel, if someone throw a stone to her, cause she drives?
 
But such a thing like secular muslim does not exist.


Because secular muslims does not exists.
Your above statement contradicts yours below:

This is simply not true. Maybe secular muslims are 1%. Among this
ones which are living on the West it is maximum 20%. The 20% of

That's why we can't have intellectual conversation with illogical person.





This is very common on this forum, when someone does not fit with
sacred words, is acusing of being nazi, rasist or agent of Stormfront.
There is no tolerance for intolerant people on Eupedia. I'm predicting it is only a matter of time till your next ban.
 
Bicicleur,
Europe is not secular. This is only an euphemism for some unnamed "secular" religion.
Europe is prosocialistic, proatheistic, prohomosexual, proevolutionistic, antychristian,
and is leading by maoistic belivers of zero-growth, partialy associated with extremly
communist paramasonic group named Grand Orient de France...

Of course, some people belive in that empty phrase... secular... but it is curve ball...
Wow, we have conspiracy theorists on steroids, lol. On top of it you are as fundamentalist and extremist as ISIS, and you fight for the same god. If you didn't notice 70% Europeans are Christians and only 20% of agnostics and atheists. If anything Europe is predominantly pro Christian. Again, your bold and intolerant statements have little to do with reality. Can't you see that your mind is tricking you?
 
Europeans are tired of wars. Only in ww2 were killed an estimated
Good point. Both world wars brought only disaster, distraction, death and suffering to all Europeans, and nobody truly won and benefited of it. Well, except Americans, because European firms were in ruins and without capital, American companies could easily expend worldwide (and in Europe) catching biggest share of the market. Europeans had to kill each other in tens of millions to finely notice that nobody can rally win, got smarter and try peaceful way for a change. With great benefits as we can see these days.
This killing, arm wrestling of various groups, is going on today in Near East. Many might be killed and massacred till they learn, as well as Europeans, that this is not the right way to go about. In mean time this creates a brain drain, because most talented and with money go to Europe to find a safe place to live. This might in turn slow down economic growth and cause lack of professionals in the region in the future.
 
It seems you became a high level işn Islamic doctrine and can decide who is muslim and who is not,

Thanks to share your own ideas, but let's turn back reality.
Exactly my observations too. Radical Christians or radical Muslims, what's the difference? They just grew up in different countries, that's all. Their haltered for different others is same strong and unforgiving.
 
political correctness is the new religion
What about kindness and tolerance? By the way, religion is organized spirituality.

it's a selfdestructive religion it won't last, but in the mean time it will have made a lot of damage
Pure speculation. Can you give example of politically correct country destroyed by itself. I can give plenty of examples of intolerant and conservative countries or systems which are long gone. Should I start?
 
Love and peace is only for Muslims. Shias are not muslims for sunnis, and sunnis are not muslims for shias.
They are even worse than jews and christians, because they are apostates. That's all.
.
They are so worse than you, because you only hate: socialists, atheists, homosexuals, evolutionists, antichrists, communists, masons, jews and of course muslims.

Europe is prosocialistic, proatheistic, prohomosexual, proevolutionistic, antychristian,
and is leading by maoistic belivers of zero-growth, partialy associated with extremly
communist paramasonic group named Grand Orient de France...
 
If I create today society of Q-men, and I make a rule, that Q-men can be only
lefthanded and wearing red shirts, and everyone, who is righthanded and wearing
shirts in different colour is not a Qman - then who will decide, who can be a Qman???
Someone who want to wear blue shirt? No. I will decide, because I am the one making
the rules deciding who can be a Q-man and who can be not.

This is a bit ridiculous :LOL:

Who is the Muslim, Shia or Sunni. According to your logic. Even both of them call themselves as a muslim, just one of them can be Muslim. Because there are certain rules, aren't they?

If you are not Catholic, Sorry you are not Christian.


Btw, if there will be such a thing like secular normal muslim, then on the West were
be no need for muslims gettos, for banning the burka, there will be not problem with
burning cars and blowing buses, and people woudnt be wearing themselves as Arabs.

Jordan-Horner_2907951b.jpg

Real Jewish, all others are Heretic :grin:

700_rbiu9hcv6oi0tslfjhwu4czl8zr72art.jpg



Boreas you are from Turkey,

A country that started as Shia with Seljouks, become Suni, populated by taqqiya, expelled Bektasi muslims,
and finally today is trebling among Kemalic state, and Sultan-Erdogan state,

I guess you know the difference among Con/polis muslims, to far East/South Turkey radical Islam,

just answer your shelf,
for you, you are maybe a true muslim,
for radical Islamists like Daesh, are you a true Muslim?
and can you live, study, work with a Kufar/.Cafir?

just answer your shelf,
when your imams, say women must not drive,
how will you react?
will you allow your wife to drive?
and if you would, how will you feel, if someone throw a stone to her, cause she drives?

Are you a true Orthodox as this Russians girls?

headcovering21.jpg


In the last ramazan, I erase word Islam from my national ID. It was an act against Political Islam. But none one can dicide my religion. It is a personel thing.
 
What about kindness and tolerance? By the way, religion is organized spirituality.

Pure speculation. Can you give example of politically correct country destroyed by itself. I can give plenty of examples of intolerant and conservative countries or systems which are long gone. Should I start?

Political correctness is new, it started in the 70's.
Everyone who dissagrees is acused of being Nazi.
It is political correctness that killed Pim Fortuyn in cool blood on the street.
Many political correct men were rejoiced because of his death. He was to intelligent and spoke his mind, political correct people couldn't handle him.

Political correctness is to young to have destroyed itself.
Political correctness is Merkel inviting people from all over the world to become German citizins, and finding out afterwards that the flow becomes incontrolable.
Now they are discussing how they will close the borders. In the mean time Europe is full of adventurers and fortune seekers who shouldn't be here at alland who are very dificult to remove from Europe again.
It is this kind of stupidities that will finish political correctness in the end.
 
This is a bit ridiculous :LOL:

Who is the Muslim, Shia or Sunni. According to your logic. Even both of them call themselves as a muslim, just one of them can be Muslim. Because there are certain rules, aren't they?

If you are not Catholic, Sorry you are not Christian.




Real Jewish, all others are Heretic :grin:

700_rbiu9hcv6oi0tslfjhwu4czl8zr72art.jpg





Are you a true Orthodox as this Russians girls?

headcovering21.jpg


In the last ramazan, I erase word Islam from my national ID. It was an act against Political Islam. But none one can dicide my religion. It is a personel thing.

.
One must ask the question of why 80% of muslim who are sunni want to kill off 20% shia muslim ..................or is it the sunni arabs against the shia Persian
!!!!!!!
 
Your above statement contradicts yours below:

No, its no contradict, what I explained in larger context.

1. In Islam there is no such thing like secular person - so everyone who
claims to be one, exclude himself from Ummah or is a liar. Secular muslim
is not a muslim at all - by islamic teachings.

2. This not means, that don't exist people, who claim to be so called "secular muslims".

3. Generally in Islamic world it is maybe 1% - as Boreas was claim, that fundamentalist are 1%, it was paralel sentence.

4. But among the muslims who lived in the West this could me more, because they lived
under influence of western society, so there could be even 20% (as some ststistics claim)
Even if it is so big number, then still 80% are totaly normal, "fundamentalist" muslims.

That's why we can't have intellectual conversation with illogical person.

Yea, disscussion, with someone, who dont want understand on puropse or do not get simple thought-shorts.

There is no tolerance for intolerant people on Eupedia. I'm predicting it is only a matter of time till your next ban.

I predict that you will do this becasue tou want it.
Intolerance person in tour meaning means "someone who do not agree with Lebrok".

Your tolerance we all saw when you was colosing threads which you do not liked,
or was claiming, that someone is someone who he wasn,t, or was talking about
something about that he was not. In that manner everyone can be shout down,
because you want that.
 
Wow, we have conspiracy theorists on steroids, lol. On top of it you are as fundamentalist and extremist as ISIS, and you fight for the same god. If you didn't notice 70% Europeans are Christians and only 20% of agnostics and atheists. If anything Europe is predominantly pro Christian. Again, your bold and intolerant statements have little to do with reality. Can't you see that your mind is tricking you?

So you are living in some imagine world - I was suspecting this,
and some people here were suggesting this, but now I am sure.

And now I am as ISIS... wow... so if you like belive in that...
And this you called intelectual disscussion, if you do not know even about what I was writing about...

Bilecular was writing about European Union, and I was writing about that - about state, not people.

As about people: maybe 70% called themselves christians, but they are not.
They are behaving like secular atheists and nihilists. In France only 5% of so
called "belivers" is going to church, and most of this 70% in Europe has mostly
the same customs and belives as atheists. Religion not influance their decisions
in life. So they at least can be called as cultural christians, because they are
celebrated two or three holydays in year plus wedding and baptisms and it's all.

Christian it is someone who behave like christian and belivbe like christian, not only claiming to be.

If someone belive in evolution, abortion, homosexuality aso - he is not a true christian.
He is more atheists and secular. In catholic and probably orthodox church such a person
excommunicate himself without need of any church action.

And were you see a concpiracy theory? I don't know.

About GOdF - this is not a secret. You can go to their base in Paris and go inside. Almost everone
french politician is a member of this organisation - he must be to keep secular course of the state.
About maosists - for example Joseph Emmanuel Barosso is one of them and he even is proud of that.
About zero-grouth belivers - this is obvious because UE is making everything to kill economy...
 
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They are so worse than you, because you only hate: socialists, atheists, homosexuals, evolutionists, antichrists, communists, masons, jews and of course muslims.

You see - you cannot live without imputing someone, something, that he does not feel.

And where you saw the Jews (especially, that I hate them??????) Where???????? This is simply your imagination.

So who is beliving in conspiracy theories - I or maybe you?
 
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This is a bit ridiculous :LOL:

It was very simplified - but you even do not understand that.

Who is the Muslim, Shia or Sunni. According to your logic. Even both of them call themselves as a muslim, just one of them can be Muslim. Because there are certain rules, aren't they?

That should decide shias and sunnis.
They both have different hadiths, so - probably this ones, who will kill the others at all?.
But becuse of many bizzare (more than sinnis) teachings of shias, I suspeced that sunnis are right theologicaly.
But in the case of succession - who knows, mabe shias are right? No one can know exactly now.

If you are not Catholic, Sorry you are not Christian.

???

Real Jewish, all others are Heretic :grin:

Secular Jews who do not even belive in Tora - certainly are.

Are you a true Orthodox as this Russians girls?

So I see you do not understand Christianity.
We do not have so many rules as muslims and jews for every aspect of life.
We have no need to wearing some cloths - but it not means, that cultural customs are not different in different countries.
Even monogamy is a cultural thing based on Roman Law - not a biblical necessery thing.

But in Islam everything is regulating by holy and halfholy scriptures.
Even which hand you must use to which thing, how to sleep, how to eat, how to wear...
So do not compare Christianity to Islam, becuase there is a huge abyss between them.

Btw, we, by principle, are free - you by principle are slaves.
And this is pattern in every kind of life and teachings.
We can do whatever we want to - exept some necessery borbidden things.
Muslims cannot do nothing exept things which are allow by Koran or Sunna.

Our first (and second) comandment is to love God the Father, and love neighbours.
Yours is to be obidient to Allah-slave-owner, hate the unbelivers and be not so bad for another muslim.

In the last ramazan, I erase word Islam from my national ID. It was an act against Political Islam. But none one can dicide my religion. It is a personel thing.

So you are an apostate, becuase you do not want to be a muslim by name.
This is not personal choice. You are not a definer of Islam, but Mohammed is.
Read his life - and you'll see, how should behave a true muslim.
Mohammed is a perfect muslim. Not you.

He killed 800 jews in Jathrib, and two another tribes exiled.
He had sex with dead body in grave.
He had sex with nine year old girl.
He killed every non beliver in Arabia.
He is the example - and he was not secular at all.

You cannot be a muslim without Mohammed and Koran.
You cannot define what you want Islam to be, or not.
 
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It is this kind of stupidities that will finish political correctness in the end.

And at the and, there will be a huge massacre.
And then politcorecors will say, that it was fault of christians of course...
But they never ever see fault in their own camp.
 
Christian it is someone who behave like christian and belivbe like christian, not only claiming to be.
Right, for you Catholics are true Christians, and for ISIS Sunni are the true Muslims. You think alike.


If someone belive in evolution, abortion, homosexuality aso - he is not a true christian.
Believe? Abortion and homosexuality exists and you can touch it. Your logic doing tricks on you again.
This explains why you don't get evolution. It takes some brain power to grasp it.

He is more atheists and secular. In catholic and probably orthodox church such a person
excommunicate himself without need of any church action.
On way, Orthodox are Christians!? Aren't you stretching your definition of Christianity too much?


And were you see a concpiracy theory? I don't know.
I know you don't know, but at least you sort of suspect what normal people mean by that, and I'm glad you rushed with examples:
About GOdF - this is not a secret. You can go to their base in Paris and go inside. Almost everone
french politician is a member of this organisation - he must be to keep secular course of the state.
About maosists - for example Joseph Emmanuel Barosso is one of them and he even is proud of that.
About zero-grouth belivers - this is obvious because UE is making everything to kill economy...

PS. I don't think you understand Jesus's preaching either. You do and say exactly opposite.
 
You see - you cannot live without imputing someone, something, that he does not feel.
Yes you can. Come to Canada to see this yourself. It exists, you can touch it, you don't need to believe it or not. So easy.
The key worlds is tolerance and inclusiveness.

Stop being afraid of others, others different than you. They are people with feelings, good people. They don't want to kill you or harm you. They just want to live like people, like you. Stop being afraid and paranoid. Follow Jesus's preaching about love, forgiveness, mercy, tolerance and compassion. Drop your axe and follow Jesus, dude.
And yes, he was a politically correct man.

So who is beliving in conspiracy theories - I or maybe you?
Check the definition, otherwise you don't understand what people are talking about.
 

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