"Croatian-like" Genetics in Southwestern Ukraine and Southeastern Poland

[A. Papadimitriou]

The original location is a matter of historiography and in Wiki article about White Croats we can find more theses. But the primary source itself DAI, clearly says that the ruler of Zachlumia is from the Vistula. And Historia Salonitana(13th century) talks about Croats which coming from Poland.

You can believe whatever you want but the statement 'DAI clearly says that the rurler of Zachlumia is from the Vistula' seems false to me. What is your source?

 

[hrvat22]

You can believe whatever you want but the statement 'DAI clearly says that the rurler of Zachlumia is from the Vistula' seems false to me. What is your source?

De Administrando Imperio
Ch. XXXIII. About Zahumljani and the country where they now live
"The tribe of the proconsul and patrician Mihajlo, son of Višetina, archon of Zahumljan originates from unbaptized people who lived on the Vistula river and were called Litziki, they settled on the river called Zahluma."

According to Tibor Živković the area of the Vistula where the Litziki ancestors of Michael of Zahumlje originate was the place where White Croats would be expected and not White Serbs,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zachlumia#7th_century

 

[A. Papadimitriou]

De Administrando Imperio
Ch. XXXIII. About Zahumljani and the country where they now live
"The tribe of the proconsul and patrician Mihajlo, son of Višetina, archon of Zahumljan originates from unbaptized people who lived on the Vistula river and were called Litziki, they settled on the river called Zahluma."



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zachlumia#7th_century

Ok. This is almost true. I did not remember it. The river is called Visla in the text. Also the Zachlumi do not appear as Croats proper. He says: The are 'Serbloi'.
The source you use is weird because it changes the names. The names should be transcribed as they are. And then attempt to interpret them. There is no Mihajlo and certainly no Visetina in the text.

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[hrvat22]

Ok. This is almost true. I did not remember it. The river is called Visla in the text. Also the Zachlumi do not appear as Croats proper. He says: The are 'Serbloi'.
The source you use is weird because it changes the names. The names should be transcribed as they are. And then attempt to interpret them. There is no Mihajlo and certainly no Visetina in the text.

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It is translation from Croatian. If you are interested in the original, read it. We are only interested in information about the Vistula. Whether is someone labeled as a Serb or a Croat it belongs to the analysis of the text as well as the DAI itself. So we cannot discuss that because the matter is complicated. The migration of Serbs and Croats in DAI is too similar, there is even an opinion that Serb story is a rewritten Croatian story. DAI itself has not been confirmed by the latest genetic data as far as the story of the Serbs is concerned, and finally it is and the political view of the time when some Serbs had power in that area. In any case "According to Tibor Živković the area of the Vistula where the Litziki ancestors of Michael of Zahumlje originate was the place where White Croats would be expected and not White Serbs".

 

[A. Papadimitriou]

It is translation from Croatian. If you are interested in the original, read it. We are only interested in information about the Vistula. Whether is someone labeled as a Serb or a Croat it belongs to the analysis of the text as well as the DAI itself. So we cannot discuss that because the matter is complicated. The migration of Serbs and Croats in DAI is too similar, there is even an opinion that Serb story is a rewritten Croatian story. DAI itself has not been confirmed by the latest genetic data as far as the story of the Serbs is concerned, and finally it is and the political view of the time when some Serbs had power in that area. In any case "According to Tibor Živković the area of the Vistula where the Litziki ancestors of Michael of Zahumlje originate was the place where White Croats would be expected and not White Serbs".

The Croatian translation is a bad translation.

I will not post about it again because I don't really care.

First of all you should take into account why the term white was used. If it referred to cardinal directions, which is what makes the most sense, 'White Croatia' could have meant either 'North Croatia' or 'West Croatia'.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardinal_direction

Based on what I have seen in general a Slavic tribe with the same name could have existed both in Central Europe and Eastern Europe.

 

[hrvat22]

The Croatian translation is a bad translation.

I will not post about it again because I don't really care.

First of all you should take into account why the term white was used. If it referred to cardinal directions, which is what makes the most sense, 'White Croatia' could have meant either 'North Croatia' or 'West Croatia'.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardinal_direction

Based on what I have seen in general a Slavic tribe with the same name could have existed both in Central Europe and Eastern Europe.

The term white is used in DAI, other sources (maybe except one) mention only Croats. However DAI mention and megale Croatia. As for the statement that "Slavic tribe with the same name could have existed both in Central Europe and Eastern Europe", I don't know how much it has to do with migration and the genetics which prove that migration? For now, migration of Croats starts from southern Poland and southwestern Ukraine.

 

[Dorian9]

 

[ihype02]

Maybe there is more Steppe and Baltic influence in Eastern Ukraine instead?

 

[felipesc500]

Croatians are Half Slavic, it means that there were no "Croatian-Like", Instead might been Scythian-Samartian plus some Hellenic and Dacian influence, keep in mind that those people were very similar to Paleo-Balkans on G25 Models, it means that you probably saw a "Croatian Like" influence cause of the mixture that Croatians have, Slavic(Balto-Slav+Paeonian+Minor Samartian)+ Paleo Balkan(Illyrian, Dacian)+ Minor Imperial Roman(Anatolian-Like)+ Minor Celto_Germanic.
Slavic+Dacian+Scytho-Samartian+Greek could resemble the Croatian-like origin, so it suggests a minor Balkan, Iranian and Hellenic origin in the Ukrainian Genetic Make pool. Off course, Scythian-Like could been well emulated between Illyrio-Dacian+ Anatolia-Like, European Scythians typically resemble a lot the Daco-Thracian population.