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Dacian Language

κτητορ means owner
κτημα means my property
κτησις is the god's buildings

κτισω means to build κτισται builders is considered imported from Bithynia in Byzantine times


and since we are gather here

the ending in Celtic is -os and in Baltic is -as?
the plural in Celtic is -ci Greek -koi in baltic? is it -cki like south slavic?
 
ktitor is stg. like donor for public building e.g. monastery, perhaps hospital as well...
link to monastery and religion is why I think word comes from Greek...

grammar is more complex than that in Slavic....
-ci sometimes ... also -i, -ovi, -e, -a,...
-cki never
-cki sounds as demunitive of some singular noun...
-ski would be about belonging (maybe that is why you say -cki)


do you know more thracian words?
 
I see... Do you think historic Albanian would be more similar with Dacian and other sentum languages?

You mean "Satem" languages, right?

Honestly, I've been looking into this for quite a while now and I have not come up with a satisfying scenario for Albanian yet. Again, the problem is that all of the Paleo-Balkan languages are poorly attested.
 
You mean "Satem" languages, right?

Honestly, I've been looking into this for quite a while now and I have not come up with a satisfying scenario for Albanian yet. Again, the problem is that all of the Paleo-Balkan languages are poorly attested.

well to help you

Gatapano an arberesh finds egyptian elements (also exist in Greek)
A kolla (arvanites) finds similar roots in 600 words with homer (hmm work)
Thomopoulos who's work is hmmm finds pelasgian elements,
Mayer finds Turkish and Romanian elements big enough
a famous austrian try to conect all non greek toponyms, and claims an illyric origin, but his work just went to tin cause these exist in thracian and in turkey, (the Nedesca case) (only accepted by Albanians Nationalists)
2 young austrians try to work in albanian language but give up,
Rasuli connects albania with N Bulgaria and south Romania, but its work is not accepted by albanians
there are also some others like Duridanov who search thracian in Albanian language
 
ktitor is stg. like donor for public building e.g. monastery, perhaps hospital as well...
link to monastery and religion is why I think word comes from Greek...

grammar is more complex than that in Slavic....
-ci sometimes ... also -i, -ovi, -e, -a,...
-cki never
-cki sounds as demunitive of some singular noun...
-ski would be about belonging (maybe that is why you say -cki)


do you know more thracian words?


I am not oppening books now,

κατα-κτητης conqueror
κτητορ = owner
Δοτηρ = the one he gives
εκτιω = estimate also punishmet assessed


κτιζω is imported from ancient times and exist in koine as also κραβατος Greek is κλινη (clinica)
Κραβατος is Phrygian (minor asia) and Ktirio is Buthynia imported)
κτιτορ is alternate with Greek εγειρω slavic gore or δομω Domus or τευκτιω-τεκτω τεκτον (archi-tecture), Hellenistic but not Greek,
there is also a possibility of change meaning
the stones that time were combed, Virb κτενιω-κτεριω Future κτερισω, probably the combed work became another meaning in non Greeks and return.
Donor is bad Greek word after Thracian or Latin influence or another,
the Greek word is χορηγος and Δοτηρ, Δονορ is not according Ancient Greek grammar,
is noun after past of Hellenistic
virb present is Διδω past εδιδα & εδωκα Ancient Greek δ->τ Δοτηρ
Hellenistic is Διδω past εδινα & εδωσα-> ν ? Δονορ from past form ????
 
Dagne I need a favor

I want you to check that Dacian vocabulary,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Romanian_words_of_possible_Dacian_origin

is it connected with Baltic,

the connection with Greek is rather not strong except some few, Dacian is not a greek language,
the connection with Albanian and especially Latin is stronger,

I looked at those words, but they sound strange to me - if they came to Romanian via Dacian, Romanians changed their pronunciation according to their sound law system and now it is difficult to know what is what

for instance, can I think that bara = bala (marsh) or that balta (bala) = (pool pudle)?
and if the word for calling a sheep is bir (Romanian) matches Lithuanian bur or bure?

there aren't definitely any 100% similarity like with Dacian reconstructed words, and many sound combinations are impossible for Lithuanian (or as a matter of facts for Dacian reconstructed words) like
-ou
-ea
-gh
-rg
-aie
-aia
-uie
-f

words ending in consonants
and so on...

and also, if these words are so similar with Albanian, why not to think that they came from Albanian to Romanian? The countries aren't that far away and I bet the contacts between two peoples throughout millennia were very much likely. Especially having in mind that Dacian and Thracian have been long gone ...
 
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I looked at those words, but they sound strange to me - if they came to Romanian via Dacian, Romanians changed their pronunciation according to their sound law system and now it is difficult to know what is what

for instance, can I think that bara = bala (marsh) or that balta (bala) = (pool pudle)?
and if the word for calling a sheep is bir (Romanian) matches Lithuanian bur or bure?

there aren't definitely any 100% similarity like with Dacian reconstructed words, and many sound combinations are impossible for Lithuanian (or as a matter of facts for Dacian reconstructed words) like
-ou
-ea
-gh
-rg
-aie
-aia
-uie
-f

words ending in consonants
and so on...

and also, if these words are so similar with Albanian, why not to think that they came from Albanian to Romanian? The countries aren't that far away and I bet the contacts between two peoples throughout millennia were very much likely. Especially having in mind that Dacian and Thracian have been long gone ...


cause from history we know that Albocence tribe lived in Dacia-Moesia, and not in Albania
Dacians had colonies in Albania while Illyrians not in Dacia
the I Ydna of Albanians shows connection with Romania amd not with Dinaric,
the case of E-v13 that expand for south to North although is with your side and means population that moved North but after 200AD
and the more ancient Alba is in Dacia not in Skodra,

hmmm I am just thinking again of Getae and thracians, being 2 different groups and dialect??
in thracian vocabulary we find many armenian Greek as expected but in Dacian not that much,
Albanian is the 3rd isoglosses of the Germanic Slavic,

the case of celtic Galatian, or Noric P-Celtic sppeaking
well it is another story,
west of dinaric surely spoke celtic one time,
many thracian tribes are consider Celtothracian, Galatians spoke a language that is connected with south france, and with North Belgian areas,

I am just wondering of a Latino-celtic culture in Balkans,
for example Brygians,
Brygian god was Tios Bakchos
word Tios is connected with Greek Διος (god) Latin Dio and slavic Bog
considering that Brygian were isotones with Greek (grecothracian) but greeks consider them thracians, and not Getae we may have another approach that some celtic influenced areas are thracians and some getae are the daci????
on the other hand Galatians lived west of Carpatheian,

i see you found Duridanov
 
cause from history we know that Albocence tribe lived in Dacia-Moesia, and not in Albania
Dacians had colonies in Albania while Illyrians not in Dacia
the I Ydna of Albanians shows connection with Romania amd not with Dinaric,
the case of E-v13 that expand for south to North although is with your side and means population that moved North but after 200AD
and the more ancient Alba is in Dacia not in Skodra,
I didn't quite get what you were saying above ...

From wiki
Regarding the origin of non Latin words in Romanian (many with Albanian cognates) the wiki is saying that "these are not necessarily Dacian, but rather were brought into the territory that is modern Romania by Romance-speaking shepherds migrating north from Albania, Serbia, and northern Greece who became the Romanian people."

The same could be said about Slavic influence in the Romanian language:

"The Slavic influences on Romanian are especially noticeable and can be observed at all linguistic levels: lexis, phonetics, morphology and syntax. About 14% of Romanian words are of Slavic origin. This is due to the migration of Slavic tribes who traversed the territory of present-day Romania during the early evolution of the language."

I think it is quite a good explanation, why to make a more complicated one?
 
well I ll have to go,

I will answer you later plz,

I just say the gennetical connections of Albanians shows migration from transylvania and the opposite,

about the au eu it is an explanation with greek.

the debate among Rusu and some other is stronger
as you see in Brygians we have a Greco latin Dio and a slavic Bog in the same deity,


Ok I am back

Now the case of Romanian ending to au ou etc
thry to compare it with Greek mycenean -eus Achileus αχιλευς -ευς
now try to pronounce it Be careful ευ ισ νοτ ε+ου ε+φ ορ ε+β meaning eu= ef or eu = ev

so the written is Αχιλευς but the spoken is achilefs
any comparison with Slavic names ? like anton ->antonof or antonov
antonov sounds familiar to you and antonof to me
Now watch greek grammar and names
Georgi-os nomitive
Georgi-ou possesion-genitive that ou becomes -ov in slavic or -of
Οδυσσευς (Odysseus) pronounced Odyssefs if you cut the -s is Odyssef
Now if I give you the Odyssef surely you will tell me that is Russian
but if I give you Odysseu you will tell me romanian

compare
Odyssef
Odysseu
Odysseus = Odyssefs

the -Dava case is the Grecothracian -Dona (might be celtic)

now watch
Greek εθνος from ενδος (Ενδυμιων etc)
Thracian Paeoni -edi -thuni (so it follows the rules)
Ενδος Endos->edi
Eθνος Thoni-thuni
the land were a tribe or nation is habited is Endymia Edonia (modern Greek Ντοπιο, Dopio (p v f) Dovio)

compare it with Makedonia

Mak-ednos Mak-εθνος (athenean pronounce)
Mak-edonia

so Χαλκηδων Χαλκηδωνος poss-gen means chalki-dona χαλκηδονα
in baltic would be chalki-dava

so the words that are strange to you follow the Thracian rules of south,

another example,

Thracian king name Kotis, for first view it is Greek, and it could be, means hard, tough,
Now lets change the -s to -c, we got Kotic, wow the thracians were Serbs it ends in -its -c

compare these Keltik and celtic it is the same word.


simply with Roman occupation we lost the eus and beacame eu -au

the key is the Myssian Thracians and Moravian old Slavonic

Myssians North of Troy are connected at least with root name with Myceneans
Myssians Thracians moved North to Moessia,
So they carry the Pelasgo-thracian of Troy which follows the thyrrenian-Latin language,
in Fact the myssianize a wide area, and that is why Romans found easy the 'Daci' language,

Moessia means Myssia

that is why half Romanian is unknow to you, and Daco-Romanian seems more ancient than Roman,

Now since Myssians are Thracians and that language is most close to Greek and Latin
means that we also have a non Baltic Thracian or Dacian, A minor asian Aryan and non IE mixed language who entered Balkans,

In fact same is the Brygians the Paeoni the Sintikes etc

these Thracian follow the Hettit ending (Hattussa) like Dacian Capital SarmizeGETusa, ending the -essa -sse -isa
watch the Odrysee Thracians, Odrysee not Odrava
now watch the names
Diurpaneus (-eus) (follows Achileus)

There is also a connection with Armenian and Persian language among them,


the story of the wolfs,
Alternate name for wolf is Dakos
Virb is δακιω (Ι bite, tooth as weapon)
noun δηγμα (bite of an insect) δαγκωμα (teeth marks bite)
Vrygian Dakos means wolf,

now the others who have wolfs are the Lycaones
the Latins
the Turks
and the south Greeks (many ancient had that name, λυκειον school of young wolves)

so the case of Baltic in the reconstructed as I said proves connection with Baltic,
But the case of the other Daci-Moesian known proves connection with minor Asia and Latin,

In fact the wiki is not connecting Myssian and Moschoi people with Moesian,
but in Homer we read about a thracian that in his last time he was searching North to his country mountains, beyond Moesia,




so the distinguish Getae could be correct
Getae could mean Goth and could be connected with Baltic or Slavic,
while Thracians could be connected with Balkanic, minor asian, and Black sea areas,
Tauriski (crimea) were considered Thracians

watch the 2 rivers Dneiper and Dneister one follows the -pera and the other the -stera (south thracians -see)

I strongly believe that Romanization and the later Slavonization from Moravian has change enough language and create a global slavic

the other case is the one I say Slavonization of South Slavic, or North Slavic

the import of Moravian Language to All today Slavic cultures.

a move to west of Goths, a move of west of Slavic, creates Moravia which language as Slavonic passes either to south Balkan, either to Baltic,

to Be correct and not misunderstood,
a para Slavic language or para balto existed in Balkans, or north or far east
but with Cyrill it is created a status, a lingua franca, that is changing the almost fade old Balkan languages, and sounds

so the -eu you do not understand is Thracian

Romaneus pronounced Romanefs or Romanevs

so the Greek, Anatolian Mold-aia becomes mold-aua and then Mold-ava

compare bucuresti with Albanian word Bukur both means beatiful.

the -esti is another thracian ending of toponyms, we find it in Greece also as paranesti in Greek thrace,

so Bucur-esti = bukur-esti

How yes no tries to connect Serbians with the Lycaonians, due an existance of a myth,



The old Lithuanian capital is Trakai, but I am not saying it is somehow connected with Thracians. Though phonetically a person form Trakai would be called trakas (Thracian) ...

the capital of the Dorians is also Trikke


now lets return, to linguistic
the word is Flute, the musical instrument
well I don't know if flute means something
lets see the Greek word
αυλος well its negative a- and the word υλη υλη = material,
so αυλος means empty, nothing inside,
lets see how it is pronounced
avlos αβλος so again we have a connection of u with v,

lets see the back coin of view
Albanian with Germanic and Slavic belong to isoglosses
Lets the other side, The geate side, the gothic side,
as you said that -au that exist in romanian is not suitable or familiar with Balto-slavic,
lets see the other side, the German,

to you know any toponyms in North ending in -au,

I know 1
the river,
Greek δουναβης,
serbian (I guess how yes no will help us)
Slavic - Dunava ? Donava? ok -va
German Donau so dacian -au could be Gothic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
lets see in Poland
capital is Βαρσοβια Warsaw why w and not v or u
lets see Warsau and Warsav

that -au that is strange to baltic is common in Gothic-germanic language,

that is why Greeks call the Daci Goths, Getae - Γεται (gete)
In fact I believe that Thracians in south are more slavic than the ancient dacian,
although your linguistic approach leads to Baltic, the other approach leads to another view, the one that ancients describe,

that dacian language as we see connects Slavic with germanic and albanian
if I follow the historical descriptions I believe that that a pre slavic or a para slavic came to balkans,
and passed the the goths,
Goths pushed west by the incoming slavic 2nd wave
which was pushed by the Non IE from east, like golden horde, avars Balkars etc,

that second wave passed west and east of Romania, living areas who were under byzantine Latin speaking christians, while the rest especially moravia became the Lingua franca of the new incomers,
so slavic people settle upon pre-slavic or para slavic thracians, and pushed Goths west
it might be connected also with the weak roman empire.


that -au is the link among Dacian and Gothic-Germanic

while some Albanian sounds like dh hrr is simmilar germanic

well i hope at least to make you wonder,
since so many modern linguists and the problem remains unsolved,

what do you say?
 
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The Getae and the Goths (Gutones) were not the same.

The Getae were related with the Dacian, whereas the Goths, without a doubt, were East Germanic people, akin to the Burgundians and Vandals.
 
compare bucuresti with Albanian word Bukur both means beatiful.

the -esti is another thracian ending of toponyms, we find it in Greece also as paranesti in Greek thrace,

so Bucur-esti = bukur-esti
I think Baltic people = Dacians, proto-Slavic = north Thracians, Pannonians, Veneti, Scythians, and Scordisci/Serians/Serdi who are east Celtic people and spread along Danube...



so, a wild guess, why would -Esti not be related to Estonians?

"Bucu' in Estonian = "labour"
so, this would be workers town populated with Estonians...


How yes no tries to connect Serbians with the Lycaonians, due an existance of a myth,
Lika = area in today Croatia from which many Serbs and Croats origin..
Lech = ancestors of Poles...
Lycian rulers named Sarpedon (Sarpe + don?)
wolf related to Lycians, wolf as unofficial animal totem of Serbs (official one is eagle)
Lyccian = Lukka sea peoples who are related to Sherdana sea peoples and place in Egypt named after Sherdana is Serbonian bog....



to you know any toponyms in North ending in -au,

I know 1
the river,
Greek δουναβης,
serbian (I guess how yes no will help us)
Slavic - Dunava ? Donava? ok -va
German Donau so dacian -au could be Gothic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
lets see in Poland
capital is Βαρσοβια Warsaw why w and not v or u
lets see Warsau and Warsav

that -au that is strange to baltic is common in Gothic-germanic language,
Dunav
 
Actually, with the Danube, you are both completely wrong. "Danube" is derived from Celtic "Danuvios". The ancient Greeks refered to the river however as "Istros" (Ister), which is thought to be derived from Dacian/Thracian. Herodotus explicitly talks about the "Istros", though he must have been aware of the Celtic term since he talks about the "Keltoi" who lived near the source of the Danube.
 
Now the case of Romanian ending to au ou etc
thry to compare it with Greek mycenean -eus Achileus αχιλευς -ευς
now try to pronounce it Be careful ευ ισ νοτ ε+ου ε+φ ορ ε+β meaning eu= ef or eu = ev

so the written is Αχιλευς but the spoken is achilefs
any comparison with Slavic names ? like anton ->antonof or antonov
antonov sounds familiar to you
I see what you mean

... in Baltic sound system it will be Antanas, Odisėjas, Jurgis Jurgio

and regarding Kotis - it sounds OK in Baltic, too. An older meaning of kotas in Lth. is a cruel man, executor ...

-au is very common in Baltic, too, but not for endings in toponyms.
 
so, a wild guess, why would -Esti not be related to Estonians?

"Bucu' in Estonian = "labour"
so, this would be workers town populated with Estonians...

:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:
 
and since we are gather here

the ending in Celtic is -os and in Baltic is -as?
the plural in Celtic is -ci Greek -koi in baltic? is it -cki like south slavic?

masculine endings for nouns
-as, -ys, -is, -uo, -a, -ius -us
feminine
-a, -ė, -e, -is, -i,
plural
-iai, -ai, -ės, -ys, -os

and these ending are only in nominative
 
here is something amusing:

I was glossing through some more Albanian and Romanian words, and I found a number of "false signals" that are actually words common to both languages, but clearly not of Dacian origin. :laughing:

For example for "boot":
Albanian "Çizme" - Romanian "Cizma" ("Çizme" in Turkish)

Given additional Slavic borrowings (in addition to Turkish), we must eliminate a lot of words there, I assume.
 
Actually, with the Danube, you are both completely wrong. "Danube" is derived from Celtic "Danuvios". The ancient Greeks refered to the river however as "Istros" (Ister), which is thought to be derived from Dacian/Thracian. Herodotus explicitly talks about the "Istros", though he must have been aware of the Celtic term since he talks about the "Keltoi" who lived near the source of the Danube.


nope taranis my intencion is not the origin of the name the pronounce of -au or -av,
so plz try to unserstand what i am talking about

the serbian Danuv and the german donau,
the ending of greek au or eu, the ending of romanian-daci au and the ending of -ev of slavic and the ending of au in german,


well there 2 kinds of turkish words,
the ancient anatolian and the modern ottoman's

lets see turkish word guzel means pretty girl, desirable girl,
ancient greek γοης goes female goessa (ss -.z?) charming
italian gusto

I believe the root is the same

another is the turkish kel (bold, no hair)
compare with romanian (chel)
serbian 'celav
Italian Calvo,

in fact there are many Anatolian words that remained or change in Turkish,
the Etruscan-latin have anatolian origin, so many words of latins are from anatolian,
and that up and down of thracians to minor asia could be the transfer of thyrrenian to areas that Pelasgians never went

ok in the case of gizme.


but what about in cases of -au and -av

in fact that is almost bigger,

consider the latin letters names that end in -slav like borislav
in greek letters is βορισλαυ-ος borislau

in fact I believe that -au and -av is a difference of balto-slavic with not balto-slavic

in fact taranis you may laugh, but Dacia with c=ts what other non slavic nations reminds you?
well it could be just a coincidence, or an inner old name ?
 
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so, a wild guess, why would -Esti not be related to Estonians?

"Bucu' in Estonian = "labour"
so, this would be workers town populated with Estonians...

:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:


how about latvia Λατβια? means stone life,
also lithuania means bored stones, stones with alzheimer
also polonia means young donkeys (πωλος ονου, a joke from school times when jesus asked for a donkey to enter Jerusalem)
Ucraine ουκ-ρανια means not even a drop
Germania ger-mania it has mania to bend
etc

that -esti we found in many areas of thracians and greeks could be the word Nest ->nestia Greek Estia. the Homeric Nostoς
 
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