David Reich Southern Arc Paper Abstract

[Alan]

Actually it means the opposite. It means they found markers for a downstream position, just a different branch than the already known ones and they need an additional tested member for this branch to define it. In many such cases, those * will create big new branches with many downstream members, including the current * cases, if so far undertested regions and people get more testing. It doesn't mean, in any case, that these * samples are particularly upstream, "old" or "dead ends" more than any other samples of these haplogroups, but rather parallel branch members of so far undefined subclades.

That is actually exactly what I meant. I wrote it is a "deadend" in the sense, it is a branch off (Brother clade) which does not fit the known mutations. Therefore the *. As you see they tested for the downstream mutation which define L23 for R1b and in case of the R1a for z93 or z280. But it was negative. And this is a sign of diversity. The point is this right here branched off from M269 and not L23. Every Haplogroup with time mutates. It is near impossible to find ancestral m343 or m269 today but it is possible to find branch offs from it. And when you find these branch offs which do not show the known mutations this is a sign that not one single branch (founder effect) occured here. But the actual ancestral branch existed and mutated into different directions.

 

[eupator]

Imagine taking 23ame's haplogroup branching seriously ...

 

[eupator]

On the Kurdish FTDNA project and in your own links, the vast majority of the R1bs listed are downstreams of L584 with a couple of odd ones out that are of Western origin (P312s).

L584 and its descendants are BA Armenia, essentially all of these are assimilated Armenian speaker lineages.

Everything else you wrote is science fiction/wishful thinking.

This is the Yamnaya route into Armenia, aka the proto-Armenian speakers, and L584 is their genetic signal.

Time to internalize it and move on, L584s didn't speak Indo-Iranic, they were proto-Armenian speakers branching out of Yamnaya.

 

[Riverman]

I'm not sure they came from Yamnaya though, but probably from a later movement of Catacomb/MCW related people.

 

[Moja]

Armenians didn't come from anywhere, they are an Indo-European people who have always lived in their own land. Those who migrated to Armenia were Urartians.

 

[D.L.M]

The demographic significance of Anatolia on a Mediterranean-wide scale is further documented by our finding that following the Roman conquest, the Anatolian population remained stable and became the geographic source for much of the ancestry of Imperial Rome itself."


Link: https://iias.huji.ac.il/event/david-reich-lecture

Seems like it.

"Major sources of slaves from the East include Lydia, Caria, Phrygia, Galatia, and Cappadocia, for which Ephesus was a center of trade. Aesop, the Phrygian writer of fables, was supposed to have been sold at Ephesus."


"Asia Minor was such an important source of slaves that the typical slave was stereotyped as a Cappadocian or Phrygian."

"To disadvantage Rhodes, and ultimately devastating its economy, in 166 BC the Romans declared Delos a free port, meaning that merchants there would no longer have to pay the 2 percent customs tax. The piratical slave trade then flooded into Delos "with no questions asked" about the source and status of captives. While the geographer Strabo's figure of 10,000 slaves traded daily is more hyperbole than statistic, slaves became the number one Delian commodity. The large commercial agricultural operations in Sicily (latifundia) likely received great numbers of Delian-traded Syrian and Cilician slaves, who went on to lead the years-long slave rebellions of 135 and 104 BC."

"The Genius venalicii, an obscure guardian spirit to do with the slave market, is honored presumably by slave-traders in four inscriptions, one of which is dedicated to this genius in the company of Dea Syria, perhaps reflecting the heavy trade in Syrian slaves from which arose a Syrian neighborhood in the city of Rome."