Do Italians look more like Spaniards/Portuguese, or Greeks?

[Drac]

The pasiegos are a group with a differentiated culture in northern Spain. It was suspected that they were descendants of Muslim people who were given a territory in a sparsely populated valley in Cantabria (Northern Spain). The genetic study has confirmed that.

No, it hasn't. Maca-Meyer et al. already dealt with the presence of this haplogroup among Cantabrians, and the evidence suggests that it has to do with much older population movements:

http://grupos.unican.es/acanto/aep/BolPas/Ann-Hum-Genet.pdf

"Taken together, Pasiegos and pooled Cantabrians stand out due to a high presence of North African lineages (E-M81 Y-haplotype and, to a lesser degree, U6, M1 and L2 mtDNA lineages). Compared to other North European populations they also share high frequencies of R-SRY10831b Y-chromosome lineage and of mtDNA lineages V and I. For the African input, it is tempting to propose an asymmetric sexual contribution in which males predominate. Although it could be true, this supposition should be regarded with caution, since the majority of North African mtDNA lineages are also present in Europe (Rando et al. 1998). There are, currently, two theories to explain this not negligible African input on the Iberian peninsula. For some, it is mainly the result of the historic Islamic occupation (Bosch et al. 2001; Pereira et al. 2000), whereas others, without totally denying this possibility, favour the bulk of this influence as having prehistoric roots (Gomez-Casado et al. 2000; Gonzalez et al. 2003). If the sexual asymmetry could be demonstrated the former hypothesis would be strengthened. In any case, the fact that this African influence similarly affects other Cantabrians and the lack of assigned Near East lineages in Pasiegos, rules out the hypothesis that this isolate was specifically founded by Moorish and Jewish refugees."

 

[Drac]

And now famous spanish actors in USA. Hollywood producers must be stupid, because being the typical blond Spanish they give them Hispanics roles instead of Russians, Czechs and Norwegians.
Paz Vega, Antonio Banderas, Penelope Cruz.


View attachment 4931View attachment 4930View attachment 4929

Sara Montiel. She, very attractive, worked in Hollywood in the 50's. He played a Mexican Indian, lol.
View attachment 4928

Shall we recall how many Italian (among others) actors have played Indians/Mexicans in Hollywood? LOL!

 

[Drac]

so according the result North italians looks like frenceh who llok like iberians, who look N fricans, who look like eGYPTIANS, who look like Greeks who look like South Italians,

the circle is closed, Noth Italians look like southern Italians, :grin:

I'm sure this fake Galician clown, "Ferreira", shivers at the thought. He is very suspiciously Italian or of Italian descent, and very likely with northern roots (his absurd posts, where he "casually" keeps harping on the supposed "blondness" of people in northern Italy, are pretty suspicious enough.)

 

[Drac]

Obviously this is a terrible thing for many Spaniards, although not all are that of xenophobes. Some of my compatriots dread the idea of ​​comun genetic with North Africa (even in small percentage). Sorry for you if you are so closed minded, but genetics does not deceive.

View attachment 4938

In Spain there have been many invasions of peoples from other places, but the idea that only Europeans left genetic mark, while non-Europeans left without not footprint is laughable. I'm sure many Europeans will laugh as I laugh. Reveals a complex of inferiority.

The inferiority complex is pretty transparent in your latest tirade of ridiculous post after post.

BTW, that map you keep spamming shows that the haplogroup that so much fascinates you is present in most of Italy, including the north.

 

[Drac]

When I was in Venice and Milan I saw more blonde people there in a week than in Galicia in a month.

Frequency of light hair in Italy according to Livi: 9%

Frequency of light hair in Spain according to Perez de Barradas: 14.5%

But then again the majority of blondism in Spain is not located where you incorrectly think (see below)

And Galicia is supposed to be more lighter than other regions of Spain.

False. Hair and eye pigmentation surveys of Spain show that the lightest areas are the Basque region, Navarre and Aragon, with frequencies of light hair and eyes similar to those of northern Italy. Get better informed.

 

[Drac]

That's not really true, sorry. there are two hypotheses, one that you have cited, and the other, more likely, it came with the Muslim invasion in the Middle Ages. In any case it is of Berber origin, and that explains your anger. But that is not my problem.

On the contrary, the most likely one, judging by the puzzling distribution of this haplogroup in Iberia, which does not correspond with historical events (Muslim rule was only long-lasting in the south of Iberia, not the northwest, and in places like Cantabria and Asturias there never was any), is in fact the much older (prehistoric) introduction.

 

[Drac]

so in case of Iberia has a % of Eb which part of it could be ancient, and part of it arabic medieval,

None of it is "Arabic", since the sub-clade in question is North African (other sub-clades are more common among Middle Easterners.) And to answer your question: since it is higher in the northwest of Iberia than anywhere else in the Peninsula, even in places where there was NO Islamic presence, it goes without saying that the majority of it is very likely of much older introduction (perhaps late Neolithic)

 

[Drac]

Carlitos, sorry if this bothers you, but you're not being objective. There is a small genetic heritage of northern Africa origin between us, the Spaniards (I'm from Galicia, NW Spain). What is the problem with it? For me, none. Approximately 5% of the Spanish population has haplogroup E1b1b1b1 (E-M81). It is most common in the west of the Iberian Peninsula. North African origin is uncontested.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_E1b1b_(Y-DNA)

As for the question, as spanish men who has visited Italy a lot of times (7 times I think it's a big number) I can say that there is an Italian tupical who is neither Greek nor Spanish, but rather blend of Italian and Central Europe. Examples would be Valentino Rossi, Stefano Casiraghi (also his son Andrea) or Piero Righetto (Spanish Big Brother).

There is also something suspiciously "Italian" about you. The coincidences are too many and too blatant to be ignored:

1- You irrupted with your obvious & absurd anti-Spanish agenda in a thread having to do with Italians being compared to other Europeans. It seems to make you angry that anyone should "dare" to compare supposedly "typical Central European Italians" with the supposedly "Berber Iberians"

2- You keep trying to paint rosy pictures of Italians ("they are much blonder", "typical central European admixed", etc.) while trying to distort Spain's image as much as possible ("lots of North African influence", "millions look like Berbers, Lebanese, etc.")

3- You try to back up these claims with purely anecdotal "evidence" about your alleged trips to places like Milan or Venice

Be warned that two can play this game, t-r-o-l-l. Would you like for me or someone else to start posting lots of pictures and videos of people from Tuscany, Lombardy, Piedmont, etc. (not even from the south) which show that they don't quite fit your romanticized portrayal of them, and keep harping on about how many "millions" of them supposedly look like Turks, Lebanese, Syrians, Palestinians, Egyptians, etc. while posting selected frequencies of Middle Eastern/North African haplogroups in Italy (in other words, your very same t-r-o-l-l-i-n-g tactic but applied to Italians)?

 

[Ferreira]

Por iso sei falar galego, malia non ser de Galicia (segundo ti) .

These are examples of Gypsies who have triumphed socially in Spain and now they are rich and famous. Do not tell anyone in Spain that they are not Spaniards! Any Spaniard will laugh if they hear that Pastora Vega, Lolita, Isabel Pantoja and Ketama are not Spaniards!!!

In Spain is not allowed ethnic statistics, so it is impossible to know the number of gypsies in this country, but especially in regions such as Andalusia, they are very abundant.

Isabel Pantoja, one of the women more famous in Spain, and really cute woman.


Lolitan, singer and actress, very famous too.


Pastora Vega, with her ex-husband (he is not gypsy, but he is the typical spanish)


Ketama, singers

 

[Carlitos]

You're absurd, Lolita, and Isabel Pantoja Pastora have a Gypsy family ancestor or descendants of families of artists and non-Roma Gypsies. For your comments is clearly seen that there are Spanish. Of all the artists who've put only Isabel Pantoja is a picture of the front line. Pastora's husband is called an actor Imanol Arias is recognized in Spain and is home merchero father's side if I remember correctly, the mercheros ethnic origin are unknown, you learn nothing and do not know Spain.

 

[Ferreira]

There is also something suspiciously "Italian" about you. The coincidences are too many and too blatant to be ignored:
You try to back up these claims with purely anecdotal "evidence" about your alleged trips to places like Milan or Venice

Exactly, I was in Milan, Verona, Venice and Trieste. Central European influence is undeniable, both in architecture and the character and appearance of Italians in those regions. I repeat, the week I was there, I saw more blond in Northern Italia than in Galicia in a month. Sorry, if that bothers you, but I CANNOT LIE.
Don't you believe me? I don't care, when you go there, you'll see by yourself

 

[Carlitos]

 

[Ferreira]

The faces of "toreros", very popular diversion in Spain.

8 best toreros of Spain. They are from Madrid, Murcia, Andalucia... And none of them is Gypsy.

http://listas.eleconomista.es/arteycultura/292-quin-es-el-mejor-torero-en-la-actualidad

Note that the number 3 (Julián López, El Juli) is considered blonde in Spain. I bet that in other countries he would not be even light brown

 

[Ferreira]

In fact the most famous bullfighter in Spain is not in the list, since it is already retired, Jesulín Ubrique, from Andalusia, but with family in Galicia.

We see him here with his wife, dyed hair like most women in Spain, and his son.

 

[Ferreira]

In Spain the majority of women clear their hair, preferably get blonde hair.

Big Brother is a good representation of Spanish society. Last year there were 5 blonde women!

Chari, Spaniard from Andalucia


Terry, Spaniard from Tenerife


Patricia, Spaniard from Andalucia


I don't remember her name, but she was Spaniard from Majorca


Obviously they are all brunettes.
The first seems Moroccan or Algerian and she is hot. The second could be from everywhere in Latin America. The third is neutral. The fourth is in my opinion less typical Spanish.


The fifth woman was also dyed blonde, but she has a slightly more central Europe features, or less mediterranean aspect (I don't know how to say, because I'm not fluent in English). But then it should be noted that she is not from Spain, but from Argentina, possibly of Italian origin (although I do not know).

Florencia, from Argentina

 

[Knovas]

You have an obsesion pretending to show that Spaniards are more or less non European, and this obsesion is making you extremely ridiculous, first, for you insistance, and second, cause you are completely wrong.

Call your psychiatrist.

 

[oreo_cookie]

I don't get how anyone can suggest Maghrebi types are commonplace in Spain or that Gypsies count as Spanish when discussing the Spanish ethnicity..

 

[Ferreira]

Of course, gypsies count as Spanish. Only someone living in an unreal world could say otherwise.
And yes, many Spaniards but not all although, seem physically a resident of any country in the Mediterranean, Turkey, Lebanon and Algeria included.

In this picture we have gathered some of the most famous people in Spain.

Singer Isabel Pantoja, singer Rosa López, singer David Bisbal, "torero" Francisco Rivera and tv star Belen Esteban (woman with dyed hair).

 

[Cambrius (The Red)]

Of course, gypsies count as Spanish. Only someone living in an unreal world could say otherwise.
And yes, many Spaniards but not all although, seem physically a resident of any country in the Mediterranean, Turkey, Lebanon and Algeria included.

In this picture we have gathered some of the most famous people in Spain.

Singer Isabel Pantoja, singer Rosa López, singer David Bisbal, "torero" Francisco Rivera and tv star Belen Esteban (woman with dyed hair).

No, genius, gypsies are never included in Spanish population genetic studies. ONLY INDIGENOUS TYPES are allowed to participate. Geneticists conduct very thorough background interviews to determine who is actually autochthonous. Results that fall well outside average frequencies for a given population group are generally discarded as fraudulent. Ask Dienekes how he learned that a Mexican pretending to be a native Spaniard had submitted his 23&me results to DODECAD. There were huge Amerindian frequencies in his sample and the results were immediately discarded. Learn something about genetics...

 

[Cambrius (The Red)]

I don't get how anyone can suggest Maghrebi types are commonplace in Spain or that Gypsies count as Spanish when discussing the Spanish ethnicity..

Only ignorant people would suggest that gypsies should be included.