Do modern Europeans partly descend from Neanderthal ?

I haven't seen any evidence at all that Neanderthal genes were mostly harmful and had to be "purged". For +50,000 years everyone in Europe and Asia was a Neanderthal hybrid with 10-75% Neanderthal DNA. By 45,000 YBP we have mostly modern-looking remains that are still autosomally 10% Neanderthal. Neanderthal ancestry in middle Siberia has decreased by perhaps half a percentage point since 18,000 YBP, if the remains in Afontova Gora are anything to go by. That could be due to European admixture. Neanderthal ancestry pretty much hasn't decreased in Asia in any significant way that indicates natural selection against Neanderthal alleles.
This is quite remarkable given that Neanderthals never made up more than 4% of Earth's population at any given time. According to John Hawks the entire world's population of Neanderthals at any given time could have been seated comfortably at at an NFL superbowl stadium. The amount of Neanderthal ancestry in modern humans is actually higher than what one would expect; given the very shallow populatuon size of Neanderthals as compared with modern humans.
Unadmixed modern humans (west-central Africans and western Negritos) have lagged behind immensely and suffered a kind of "purge" of their own, if you will, throughout recorded history. One wonders if you were given a choice to be born black at any given time in history, vs being born white or Asian with some Neanderthal ancestry, which would you choose? Clearly, Neanderthal ancestry was critical to the current standard of living and status that you enjoy.

Then you clearly haven't read any of the numerous scientific papers of the last years. Just as one example, nature purged huge portions of our X chromosome of their dna.

Even of the dna that's left, not much of it is beneficial. You think it's just great that they left us a legacy of increased propensity to depression, addiction to tobacco, auto-immune disorders, to just mention a few? Please.

I would provide a list of the papers, but clearly you want to persist in your ignorance, for whatever reason, so why bother.

To all reading this thread: Ignore this poster. He is only interested in posting misleading information.
 
^^So am I, and he's going to be out of here pretty fast if he doesn't stop disrupting this thread.
 
He does post some reasonable stuff too. It may be that he is just excessively invested in making the facts fit his narrative of being part of a superior hybrid species.
 
Purifying selection disproportionately affected Neanderthal alleles that modulated the tissues of the brain and the testes


We have no way of knowing that. The coverage of the Neanderthal genome is very limited so far and in the future we may discover that we DO have Neanderthal testes genes. Remember that not a single Levantine Neanderthal has been sequenced yet and even the genome we have is far from complete.


Basically, your testes genes claim is based on WILDLY speculatory evidence. There's nothing conclusive.


As for brain genes that's just patently false; we are very rich in cognitive genes from Neanderthals and new "discoveries" are made every year, overturning the speculations of the previous year:


https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smar...rary-humans-skull-shape-brain-size-180971043/


This means that the Neanderthals were, by humans standards, likely rather primitive.


No it doesn't! This is infuriating. You are an idiot if you come to this conclusion based on flimsy and wild speculations about incomplete genomes. The fossil record already PROVES Neanderthals were less primitive. Even if their intelligence genes had been "purged" that would not make them primitive. There is evidence of rapidly decreasing IQ and increasing primitiveness in our own time.
 
You have clearly allowed yourself to be brainwashed by media reports about Neanderthal DNA. Nicotene consumption is a personal choice and depression is more dependent on one's environment (sedentary lifestyle, social media consumption, etc) than one's genes. There is no evidence for Neanderthal-admixed populations suffering depression prior to the late 20th century, except for possible individual examples among the leisured upper strata of societies, in earlier times.

As for autoimmune disorders, I am sure they are few and far inbetween compared to the number that already existed in modern humans and which have mutated off of modern human alleles. Basically you're grasping for straws, looking for any little flaw you can find in Neanderthal DNA to justify your superstition that they were "primitive" or "bad", all while ignoring the positives (including positives of the very genes related to the things you mentioned) and the fact that non-Africans appear to have lived better lives than Africans for... Ever.

Everything I said is supported by scientific evidence presented in numerous recent papers. I don't read MEDIA reports. I read papers. I recommend it.

Your opinions, on the other hand, are contradicted by science.

I don't debate people who refuse to read the relevant scientific papers but instead operate out of some emotional agenda.

Stop spamming thread after thread with provocative, clearly a-scientific comments. You are annoying and insulting valued members.

Am I clear?
 
Do modern Europeans partly descend from Neanderthal

I dont think the heathen times were that primitive either. The Vikings had a good way of sailing the seas and the Romans also knew more than many think....
 
Nas

I don’t know if you’ve modified your thinking but the NA tribes with and without Agriculture all have high instances of Diabetes 2. The most common reason why they have diabetes is because of the American diet of highly processed foods they are forced to eat that started with their being removed to unproductive lands on reservations where they couldn’t plant their crops. I don’t know what you think you know about NAs but most of them were agricultural thousands of years before Columbus even existed.
 
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Do we know much about Neanderthal DNA presence in ancient tribes such as the Yamnaya?
 
Id say that since the whole world has some Neanderthal DNA many averaging around 2%, Neanderthal really got around and for some time.
Especially when one considered that .5% of the world has Mongol DNA and Britian is about 5% viking and United States is about 2% native American. I don't remember Charlemagne's
 
Good day.I stumbled upon this discussion. Quite an interesting theory considering many sources. I have been fond of archeology for a long time, sometimes I help my friends.For such analyzes on ElvaTech, I can recommend X-ray fluorescence analyzers. It helps to determinate the chemical composition, age, the way of production and use of various archaeological findings.
 
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Yes,partly descended from them at least thats what i have read
Europeans are said to carry a small percentage of Neanderthal DNA more so than Africans who
have basicly none.

But its only a small percentage not something very large realy
 
Evidence that Neanderthal could have survived well into modern times and could interbreed with Homo Sapiens

The Almas is a cryptozoological species of presumed hominid reputed to inhabit the Caucasus and Pamir Mountains of central Asia. In other words, they could be relict hominoids, i.e. isolated descendents of ancient forms of humans, such as Neanderthal. Sometimes, these hominids are refered to as troglodytes.



One such hominid was captured in the wild in Abkhazia, Western Caucasus (now in Georgia) in the late 1800's. Her name was Zana. She was buried near the village of Tkhina, but her remains were not yet found by modern scientists to examine her skull and DNA. She, however, had a son with a

Accounts of people who had seen Zana describe her as having black or dark grey skin (maybe partially from dirt, as she was imprisoned in a cage like a wild animal) with reddish black hair. After 3 years in a cage, Zana had became tamer and was released. She was particularly athletic, fast at both running and swimming.

She gave birth several times to "half-breed" children (with local villagers), and four of them (born between 1878 and 1884) are known to have been taken away from her and raised by local families. Contrarily to her who had been raised in the wild, her children could speak and behave like normal men and women, in spite of some strange physical and mental features.

The two sons (Dzhanda and Kwhit) and two daughters (Kodzhanar and Gamasa) had children of their own, whose descendents still live in that region. Khwit and Gamasa were given the surname Sabekia.

Kwhit died in 1954. His skull was examined by scientists, and indeed shows clear evidence of strong Neanderthal features mixed with modern features.

It is interesting to note that Gamasa and Khwit were described as darked skinned and powerfully built, but otherwise lacking Zana's facial apperance. Some genes are dominant and other recessive. This is why a child born to a European and an East Asian parent will look much more East Asian than European. The same is true of a child half Black African, and half European. So if Neanderthal contribute to modern European genes, it is likely that millenia of interbreeding have mostly erased most of their physical characteristics, leaving only to modern Europeans some very slight Neanderthal features not found among people elsewhere in the world.

British anthropologist Myra Shackley in "Still Living ?" describes Ivan Ivlov's 1963 observation of a whole family of Almas.

I wonder if the op (and others) have discovered this paper (https onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ggn2.10051 grr, can't post links yet!) published in June? (more detailed and recent genetic analysis of Zana and Khwit apparently. I've not read it yet).
I'm guessing not as he hasn't updated the post in 7+ yrs?
 
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Yes,partly descended from them at least thats what i have read
Europeans are said to carry a small percentage of Neanderthal DNA more so than Africans who
have basicly none.

But its only a small percentage not something very large realy

I have often wondered why sub Saharan Africans are so different from Caucasions and Orientals WRT hair texture and facial features. Maybe it is because those who left Africa 80,000 years mated with the Neanderthals and produced the types of people we see throughout Eurasia.
 
I have often wondered why sub Saharan Africans are so different from Caucasions and Orientals WRT hair texture and facial features. Maybe it is because those who left Africa 80,000 years mated with the Neanderthals and produced the types of people we see throughout Eurasia.

Crown Eurasians like Onge, Melanesians, Papuans, Orang Asli have Afro hair and some similar facial features but are divergent from SSA genetically than modern West Eurasians aswell hS having higher levels of Eurasian Archaics than Europeans
 
Optimal linear estimation models predict 1400–2900 years of overlap between Homo sapiens and Neandertals prior to their disappearance from France and northern Spain
13 October 2022
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Abstract
Recent fossil discoveries suggest that Neandertals and Homo sapiens may have co-existed in Europe for as long as 5 to 6000 years. Yet, evidence for their contemporaneity at any regional scale remains highly elusive. In France and northern Spain, a region which features some of the latest directly-dated Neandertals in Europe, Protoaurignacian assemblages attributed to Homo sapiens appear to ‘replace’ Neandertal-associated Châtelperronian assemblages. Using the earliest and latest known occurrences as starting points, Bayesian modelling has provided indication that these occupations may in fact have been partly contemporaneous. The reality, however, is that we are unlikely to ever identify the ‘first’ or ‘last’ appearance of a species or cultural tradition in the archaeological and fossil record. Here, we use optimal linear estimation modelling to estimate the first appearance date of Homo sapiens and the extinction date of Neandertals in France and northern Spain by statistically inferring these ‘missing’ portions of the Protoaurignacian and Châtelperronian archaeological records. Additionally, we estimate the extinction date of Neandertals in this region using a dataset of directly-dated Neandertal fossil remains. Our total dataset consists of sixty-six modernly produced radiocarbon determinations which we recalibrated using the newest calibration curve (IntCal20) to produce updated age ranges. The results suggest that the onset of the Homo sapiens occupation of this region likely preceded the extinction of Neandertals and the Châtelperronian by up to 1400–2900 years. This reaffirms the Bayesian-derived duration of co-existence between these groups during the initial Upper Palaeolithic of this region using a novel independent method, and indicates that our understanding of the timing of these occupations may not be suffering from substantial gaps in the record. Whether or not this co-existence featured some form of direct interaction, however, remains to be resolved.
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https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-19162-z
 
That's all it took for them to go extinct. I would bet it was that contact which did it.
 

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