E-m123*

kingdavid said:
there are cases of e-m123 ancient remains that were found in late bronze age north pakistan among populations
who didn't spoke semitic language infact they are closer to valerius under e-m123>ft20896
specifically they fall under E-FT179548 ( this branch look like it originated in south central asia or at least in modern day iran rather than the levant or north arabia )
also there is a case in the BMAC culture I2085 individual who is e-m123>m34 (his y calls are for sure under at least e-m123)
this culture also didn't spoke semitic language ( but i could be wrong here)

p.s
but i do agree that the most ancient e-m123 cases where found in the levant
ayn- ghazal-jordan -e-m34
baj'a-south jordan -e-m84
Click to expand...
I predict those samples to descend from Akkadian/Early East-Semitic colonists. They all have Levant_N admixture.

Also can I get a follow back on twitter?
 
Khopesh_Wielder said:
I predict those samples to descend from Akkadian/Early East-Semitic colonists. They all have Levant_N admixture.

Also can I get a follow back on twitter?
Click to expand...

i put I2085 at davidski calculator improved ( meaning i took out levant ppnb since in itself is a mixture of natufian and antolia barcin)


so he is more of a less a pure native to the region he was found

TUR_Barcin_N,0.1175998,0.180118,0.0035312,-0.101158,0.0510443,-0.0483875,-0.0043582,-0.0069334,0.0362287,0.0807473,0.0079718,0.0118803,-0.0234545,0.0004691,-0.0419807,-0.0101913,0.0233091,0.0019866,0.0136954,-0.0097489,-0.0142249,0.0057723,-0.0041232,-0.0031658,-0.0043437
BRA_LapaDoSanto_9600BP,0.050765,-0.3095332,0.1206032,0.098515,-0.1156522,-0.017626,-0.284645,-0.3400012,-0.0136212,-0.0184422,0.002241,-0.003267,0.0004162,0.017478,-0.0065688,0.0064438,0.006493,-0.001267,0.0026898,0.003727,-0.0010482,0.007963,-0.002662,-0.0043378,0.001413
Dinka,-0.577083,0.0507765,-0.0003773,-0.0075098,-0.0053855,-0.0016735,-0.0176848,0.0204222,0.081145,-0.0969495,-0.02107,0.022742,-0.0383172,-0.0011698,0.0101452,-0.021347,0.0186125,-0.0094382,0.0241968,-0.0241678,0.002402,0.003308,0.001479,0.0009038,0.0096995
ETH_4500BP,-0.511066,0.043668,0.000754,0.000969,-0.00277,-0.011435,0.050997,-0.045229,0.089172,-0.087838,-0.012991,-0.002997,-0.031219,0.000688,0.02158,-0.029965,0.027772,0.039273,0.00176,-0.009004,0.000374,0.006183,-0.003451,-0.00241,-0.000838
Gambian,-0.6064875,0.0671942,0.0197362,0.0114665,0.0021028,0.0055777,-0.0358392,0.0387677,-0.0317353,0.0241463,0.0054132,-0.0036467,0.0162287,-0.0009865,0.011016,-0.0153362,0.009692,-0.0011823,-0.002116,-0.0032307,-0.001643,-0.0018137,0.0043958,-0.0001005,0.001377
Han,0.0206952,-0.4507105,-0.0082967,-0.0651579,0.0780846,0.0374475,0.0029055,-0.004804,-0.0150232,-0.0031146,-0.0495875,-0.0070573,0.0072707,-0.0081072,-0.0043305,0.0012535,0.0017542,-0.0008638,-0.0020455,-0.0102206,0.0122397,0.0069582,0.0141063,-0.0012925,-0.0022315
IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N,0.0430252,0.0664158,-0.1550722,0.0047158,-0.122669,0.0235384,0.017109,-0.0011998,-0.082546,-0.0544158,-0.0028258,-0.0016186,0.0044896,-0.0062756,0.0316498,0.0561384,-0.0054242,0.0068664,0.0136508,-0.0334162,0.00856,-0.028836,-0.0110678,-0.039331,0.0222254
IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2_I8728,0.033009,-0.081242,-0.184789,0.125325,-0.09848,0.06777,0.002585,0.007615,0.03661,0.02606,-0.002273,0.010041,-0.005798,0.006744,0.004479,0.001326,0.008605,0.001267,0.00352,0.001376,0.003743,-0.004946,-0.00037,-0.00253,-0.007305
Jarawa,-0.0219821,-0.2430289,-0.1324164,0.0986968,0.0323713,-0.0045841,-0.01012,0.0065044,0.0546974,0.0238044,0.0228054,0.0027349,-0.0041532,0.0103562,-0.0108067,-0.0114441,0.0094529,-0.0019082,-0.0062221,0.0286778,-0.0046401,0.0111366,-0.0123402,0.0022668,0.0049844
Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps,0.1013025,0.133034,-0.07071,-0.043605,-0.0498555,-0.0092035,0.008108,-0.011653,-0.066368,-0.01631,0.0030855,0.011015,-0.019846,0.005849,0.0042075,-0.0102095,-0.0001305,-0.003927,-0.001697,0.0032515,0.003494,-0.000247,-0.0036975,-0.0090975,-0.0030535
Israel_Natufian_d:I1072_enhanced_d,0.037562,0.155376,-0.023381,-0.137276,0.043085,-0.083388,-0.017861,-0.012923,0.124555,0.015672,0.030042,-0.020382,0.082209,0,0.003257,-0.012861,-0.008866,-0.010515,-0.017221,0.021385,0.015348,0.001855,0.008504,0.003735,0
MAR_Taforalt,-0.189857,0.0814452,-0.0242866,-0.085595,0.027636,-0.0552202,-0.0705968,0.0184146,0.155397,0.003499,0.0209156,-0.0318316,0.0747168,-0.0513334,0.0711988,-0.0363032,0.0052676,-0.066106,-0.1424162,0.0389938,-0.0376836,-0.1255322,0.0730118,-0.0137606,0.0164534
Nganassan,0.0476917,-0.4066181,0.1557885,0.0023902,-0.1594452,-0.0882129,0.0285066,0.0433367,0.0310876,0.0128477,0.1028569,0.0094115,-0.0040734,-0.0261619,-0.0219731,-0.0123307,-0.0010952,0.0134165,0.0268365,-0.0008505,0.0431363,-0.0118954,0.0336096,0.0003977,0.0135556
WHG,0.1246365,0.116278,0.184789,0.189279,0.1546445,0.0464355,0.0131605,0.0372675,0.0890705,0.017768,-0.0153455,-0.015811,0.0159065,-0.0030275,0.053338,0.0582065,0.00502,0.016343,-0.0093015,0.055589,0.0944585,0.0111905,-0.049607,-0.160866,0.0170045
Yamnaya_RUS_Samara,0.1255849,0.089028,0.0426986,0.1153479,-0.0287232,0.0450564,0.0036033,-0.0025642,-0.0559032,-0.0728943,0.0018222,3.32e-05,-0.0026924,-0.0233041,0.0366141,0.0157633,-0.0012316,-0.0017879,-0.0038408,0.0137704,-0.0031749,0.0007557,0.0110649,0.0186102,-0.004537
Yoruba,-0.6300625,0.0625011,0.022113,0.0167079,0.0005035,0.0124741,-0.044417,0.0477673,-0.0488813,0.0327694,0.0046205,0.0007904,0.0230561,0.0009509,0.0125232,-0.0096067,0.0070763,0.0004491,0.006022,-0.00299,0.0015542,0.0023156,-0.0017592,-0.0004711,-0.0004246


I2085
47.8% IRAN_GANJ_DAREH
32.4% KURA_ARAXES
15.4% YAMNAYA
2.2% TUR _BARCIN
2.0% BRA LapaDosanto
0.2% MAR taforlat
 
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E-FT179548 is hardly related to any Semitic peoples - it is just too old and it seems the split predates the very existence of proto-Semitic. I assume it might have been related to the Natufian culture (which is unrelated to the Semitic languages) at some early period but it likely migrated to the East and was assimilated within the Indo-Iranians. Nowadays it survived only in Uzbekistan and England - with the English case almost surely via Sarmatian troops.
 
Guys, just because is too old doesn't mean it's not related to Proto Afro-Asiatic speakers. There is no other way. Even E-V13 predecessor during Mesolithic must have spoken some sort of Afro-Asiatic.

Hell, there is a hypothesis by Anthony that Coros Farmers influenced the early Steppe people in Carpathian Basin about cattle herding and numerical systems deriving from some extinct Afro-Asiatic speech, no other better candidate than E-L618 so far for the intermediator.
 
Hawk said:
Guys, just because is too old doesn't mean it's not related to Proto Afro-Asiatic speakers. There is no other way. Even E-V13 predecessor during Mesolithic must have spoken some sort of Afro-Asiatic.

Hell, there is a hypothesis by Anthony that Coros Farmers influenced the early Steppe people in Carpathian Basin about cattle herding and numerical systems deriving from some extinct Afro-Asiatic speech, no other better candidate than E-L618 so far for the intermediator.
Click to expand...
Some form of Afro-Asiatic might have been possible - but not specifically Semitic.
 
Valerius said:
https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y168291/ - This is a new and interesting split in 800 BC. And the 1st TMRCA in a historical period lol.
Click to expand...

valerius
It is
A big enigma given the upstream branch to
e-y168291 goes by tmrca to 3500 bc (chalcolithic Time )
And represented in yfull by a german sample

p.s
But agree a cool split indeed😉
 
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i looked yesterday at the Russian dna forum forum.molgen
and apparently there is 1 e-m123 case (Tv-122) from 11-13th century medieval Tver in russia
unfortunately there is no pdf for this and it is from a book according to the users there
1737134574250.png




location in Russia :
1737135129589.png

p.s
I don't know if this individual is under e-m123>ft20896 or under e-m34 downstream like e-m34>z841>y2962 and e-m84>y5453
 
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kingdavid said:
i looked yesterday at the Russian dna forum forum.molgen
and apparently there is 1 e-m123 case (Tv-122) from 11-13th century medieval Tver in russia
unfortunately there is no pdf for this and it is from a book according to the users there
View attachment 17612



location in Russia :
View attachment 17613
p.s
I don't know if this individual is under e-m123>ft20896 or under e-m34 downstream like e-m34>z841>y2962 and e-m84>y5453
Click to expand...

I think e1b1b1b2a1 is = E-M34
 
Valerius said:
I think e1b1b1b2a1 is = E-M34
Click to expand...

I don't understand Russian but to the right written only e-m123 snp level not e-m34 snp
So that opens the option this Tv-122 individual can also be e-m123>ft20896
It is bad it is not in pdf and only from a book
( but look like from real research and samples interesting find nonetheless )😉
 
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It will likely be clear if we know the autosomal or downstream SNPs of the sample, but it could be a remnant of Radhanite jews
 
Aahmes said:
It will likely be clear if we know the autosomal or downstream SNPs of the sample, but it could be a remnant of Radhanite jews
Click to expand...

Farroukh user from that forum suggested it could be under that branch
you can see Russian cases (Christians, Muslim Tatars, Chuvash)

E-Y2962 YTree

www.yfull.com www.yfull.com

p.s
this branch of e-m34>z841 doesn't look Jewish
 
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Aahmes said:
It will likely be clear if we know the autosomal or downstream SNPs of the sample, but it could be a remnant of Radhanite jews
Click to expand...
There is this guy on Molgen forum named Farroukh and he mentioned that there is a Russian noble family of Varangian origin known as House of Islenev and they are apparently E-M123 though I forgot the specific branch. So another possibility could be Scandinavian, as there is also a sample from Gotland Sweden that is 100% confirmed to be E-M123 specifically E-M123->E-M34->E-Z841. But who knows without further examination, maybe the sample is an Arab traveler (Ahmed ibn Fadlan?). Speaking of which, I kinda want to rewatch The 13th Warrior xD.
 
hi valerius ,
there is a new paper who checked for 17 y-str markers in 128 yemeni male students from sana'a
i used nevgen predictor
yemen-105 haplotype is clearly e-m123 >pf4428

1742219017704.png



1742219077894.png




source paper:

link.springer.com

The Yemeni genetic structure revealed by the Y chromosome STRs - Forensic Science, Medicine and Pathology

Yemen, with its rich historical background and strategic geographical position at a major crossroads of trade and migration, offers an ideal setting for exploring population genetics. This study aimed to develop a Y-STR database for a Yemeni population and compare it with existing regional...
link.springer.com link.springer.com




p.s
maybe you can add him to your e-m123* blog
it is 99% prediction ;)
 
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