• Don't want to see ads? Install an adblocker like uBlock Origin or use a Europe-based privacy-friendly browser like Vivaldi or Mullvad.

E-m123*

kingdavid said:
there are cases of e-m123 ancient remains that were found in late bronze age north pakistan among populations
who didn't spoke semitic language infact they are closer to valerius under e-m123>ft20896
specifically they fall under E-FT179548 ( this branch look like it originated in south central asia or at least in modern day iran rather than the levant or north arabia )
also there is a case in the BMAC culture I2085 individual who is e-m123>m34 (his y calls are for sure under at least e-m123)
this culture also didn't spoke semitic language ( but i could be wrong here)

p.s
but i do agree that the most ancient e-m123 cases where found in the levant
ayn- ghazal-jordan -e-m34
baj'a-south jordan -e-m84
Click to expand...
I predict those samples to descend from Akkadian/Early East-Semitic colonists. They all have Levant_N admixture.

Also can I get a follow back on twitter?
 
Khopesh_Wielder said:
I predict those samples to descend from Akkadian/Early East-Semitic colonists. They all have Levant_N admixture.

Also can I get a follow back on twitter?
Click to expand...

i put I2085 at davidski calculator improved ( meaning i took out levant ppnb since in itself is a mixture of natufian and antolia barcin)


so he is more of a less a pure native to the region he was found

TUR_Barcin_N,0.1175998,0.180118,0.0035312,-0.101158,0.0510443,-0.0483875,-0.0043582,-0.0069334,0.0362287,0.0807473,0.0079718,0.0118803,-0.0234545,0.0004691,-0.0419807,-0.0101913,0.0233091,0.0019866,0.0136954,-0.0097489,-0.0142249,0.0057723,-0.0041232,-0.0031658,-0.0043437
BRA_LapaDoSanto_9600BP,0.050765,-0.3095332,0.1206032,0.098515,-0.1156522,-0.017626,-0.284645,-0.3400012,-0.0136212,-0.0184422,0.002241,-0.003267,0.0004162,0.017478,-0.0065688,0.0064438,0.006493,-0.001267,0.0026898,0.003727,-0.0010482,0.007963,-0.002662,-0.0043378,0.001413
Dinka,-0.577083,0.0507765,-0.0003773,-0.0075098,-0.0053855,-0.0016735,-0.0176848,0.0204222,0.081145,-0.0969495,-0.02107,0.022742,-0.0383172,-0.0011698,0.0101452,-0.021347,0.0186125,-0.0094382,0.0241968,-0.0241678,0.002402,0.003308,0.001479,0.0009038,0.0096995
ETH_4500BP,-0.511066,0.043668,0.000754,0.000969,-0.00277,-0.011435,0.050997,-0.045229,0.089172,-0.087838,-0.012991,-0.002997,-0.031219,0.000688,0.02158,-0.029965,0.027772,0.039273,0.00176,-0.009004,0.000374,0.006183,-0.003451,-0.00241,-0.000838
Gambian,-0.6064875,0.0671942,0.0197362,0.0114665,0.0021028,0.0055777,-0.0358392,0.0387677,-0.0317353,0.0241463,0.0054132,-0.0036467,0.0162287,-0.0009865,0.011016,-0.0153362,0.009692,-0.0011823,-0.002116,-0.0032307,-0.001643,-0.0018137,0.0043958,-0.0001005,0.001377
Han,0.0206952,-0.4507105,-0.0082967,-0.0651579,0.0780846,0.0374475,0.0029055,-0.004804,-0.0150232,-0.0031146,-0.0495875,-0.0070573,0.0072707,-0.0081072,-0.0043305,0.0012535,0.0017542,-0.0008638,-0.0020455,-0.0102206,0.0122397,0.0069582,0.0141063,-0.0012925,-0.0022315
IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N,0.0430252,0.0664158,-0.1550722,0.0047158,-0.122669,0.0235384,0.017109,-0.0011998,-0.082546,-0.0544158,-0.0028258,-0.0016186,0.0044896,-0.0062756,0.0316498,0.0561384,-0.0054242,0.0068664,0.0136508,-0.0334162,0.00856,-0.028836,-0.0110678,-0.039331,0.0222254
IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2_I8728,0.033009,-0.081242,-0.184789,0.125325,-0.09848,0.06777,0.002585,0.007615,0.03661,0.02606,-0.002273,0.010041,-0.005798,0.006744,0.004479,0.001326,0.008605,0.001267,0.00352,0.001376,0.003743,-0.004946,-0.00037,-0.00253,-0.007305
Jarawa,-0.0219821,-0.2430289,-0.1324164,0.0986968,0.0323713,-0.0045841,-0.01012,0.0065044,0.0546974,0.0238044,0.0228054,0.0027349,-0.0041532,0.0103562,-0.0108067,-0.0114441,0.0094529,-0.0019082,-0.0062221,0.0286778,-0.0046401,0.0111366,-0.0123402,0.0022668,0.0049844
Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps,0.1013025,0.133034,-0.07071,-0.043605,-0.0498555,-0.0092035,0.008108,-0.011653,-0.066368,-0.01631,0.0030855,0.011015,-0.019846,0.005849,0.0042075,-0.0102095,-0.0001305,-0.003927,-0.001697,0.0032515,0.003494,-0.000247,-0.0036975,-0.0090975,-0.0030535
Israel_Natufian_d:I1072_enhanced_d,0.037562,0.155376,-0.023381,-0.137276,0.043085,-0.083388,-0.017861,-0.012923,0.124555,0.015672,0.030042,-0.020382,0.082209,0,0.003257,-0.012861,-0.008866,-0.010515,-0.017221,0.021385,0.015348,0.001855,0.008504,0.003735,0
MAR_Taforalt,-0.189857,0.0814452,-0.0242866,-0.085595,0.027636,-0.0552202,-0.0705968,0.0184146,0.155397,0.003499,0.0209156,-0.0318316,0.0747168,-0.0513334,0.0711988,-0.0363032,0.0052676,-0.066106,-0.1424162,0.0389938,-0.0376836,-0.1255322,0.0730118,-0.0137606,0.0164534
Nganassan,0.0476917,-0.4066181,0.1557885,0.0023902,-0.1594452,-0.0882129,0.0285066,0.0433367,0.0310876,0.0128477,0.1028569,0.0094115,-0.0040734,-0.0261619,-0.0219731,-0.0123307,-0.0010952,0.0134165,0.0268365,-0.0008505,0.0431363,-0.0118954,0.0336096,0.0003977,0.0135556
WHG,0.1246365,0.116278,0.184789,0.189279,0.1546445,0.0464355,0.0131605,0.0372675,0.0890705,0.017768,-0.0153455,-0.015811,0.0159065,-0.0030275,0.053338,0.0582065,0.00502,0.016343,-0.0093015,0.055589,0.0944585,0.0111905,-0.049607,-0.160866,0.0170045
Yamnaya_RUS_Samara,0.1255849,0.089028,0.0426986,0.1153479,-0.0287232,0.0450564,0.0036033,-0.0025642,-0.0559032,-0.0728943,0.0018222,3.32e-05,-0.0026924,-0.0233041,0.0366141,0.0157633,-0.0012316,-0.0017879,-0.0038408,0.0137704,-0.0031749,0.0007557,0.0110649,0.0186102,-0.004537
Yoruba,-0.6300625,0.0625011,0.022113,0.0167079,0.0005035,0.0124741,-0.044417,0.0477673,-0.0488813,0.0327694,0.0046205,0.0007904,0.0230561,0.0009509,0.0125232,-0.0096067,0.0070763,0.0004491,0.006022,-0.00299,0.0015542,0.0023156,-0.0017592,-0.0004711,-0.0004246


I2085
47.8% IRAN_GANJ_DAREH
32.4% KURA_ARAXES
15.4% YAMNAYA
2.2% TUR _BARCIN
2.0% BRA LapaDosanto
0.2% MAR taforlat
 
Last edited:
E-FT179548 is hardly related to any Semitic peoples - it is just too old and it seems the split predates the very existence of proto-Semitic. I assume it might have been related to the Natufian culture (which is unrelated to the Semitic languages) at some early period but it likely migrated to the East and was assimilated within the Indo-Iranians. Nowadays it survived only in Uzbekistan and England - with the English case almost surely via Sarmatian troops.
 
Guys, just because is too old doesn't mean it's not related to Proto Afro-Asiatic speakers. There is no other way. Even E-V13 predecessor during Mesolithic must have spoken some sort of Afro-Asiatic.

Hell, there is a hypothesis by Anthony that Coros Farmers influenced the early Steppe people in Carpathian Basin about cattle herding and numerical systems deriving from some extinct Afro-Asiatic speech, no other better candidate than E-L618 so far for the intermediator.
 
Hawk said:
Guys, just because is too old doesn't mean it's not related to Proto Afro-Asiatic speakers. There is no other way. Even E-V13 predecessor during Mesolithic must have spoken some sort of Afro-Asiatic.

Hell, there is a hypothesis by Anthony that Coros Farmers influenced the early Steppe people in Carpathian Basin about cattle herding and numerical systems deriving from some extinct Afro-Asiatic speech, no other better candidate than E-L618 so far for the intermediator.
Click to expand...
Some form of Afro-Asiatic might have been possible - but not specifically Semitic.
 
Valerius said:
https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y168291/ - This is a new and interesting split in 800 BC. And the 1st TMRCA in a historical period lol.
Click to expand...

valerius
It is
A big enigma given the upstream branch to
e-y168291 goes by tmrca to 3500 bc (chalcolithic Time )
And represented in yfull by a german sample

p.s
But agree a cool split indeed😉
 
Last edited:
i looked yesterday at the Russian dna forum forum.molgen
and apparently there is 1 e-m123 case (Tv-122) from 11-13th century medieval Tver in russia
unfortunately there is no pdf for this and it is from a book according to the users there
1737134574250.png




location in Russia :
1737135129589.png

p.s
I don't know if this individual is under e-m123>ft20896 or under e-m34 downstream like e-m34>z841>y2962 and e-m84>y5453
 
Last edited:
kingdavid said:
i looked yesterday at the Russian dna forum forum.molgen
and apparently there is 1 e-m123 case (Tv-122) from 11-13th century medieval Tver in russia
unfortunately there is no pdf for this and it is from a book according to the users there
View attachment 17612



location in Russia :
View attachment 17613
p.s
I don't know if this individual is under e-m123>ft20896 or under e-m34 downstream like e-m34>z841>y2962 and e-m84>y5453
Click to expand...

I think e1b1b1b2a1 is = E-M34
 
Valerius said:
I think e1b1b1b2a1 is = E-M34
Click to expand...

I don't understand Russian but to the right written only e-m123 snp level not e-m34 snp
So that opens the option this Tv-122 individual can also be e-m123>ft20896
It is bad it is not in pdf and only from a book
( but look like from real research and samples interesting find nonetheless )😉
 
Last edited:
It will likely be clear if we know the autosomal or downstream SNPs of the sample, but it could be a remnant of Radhanite jews
 
Aahmes said:
It will likely be clear if we know the autosomal or downstream SNPs of the sample, but it could be a remnant of Radhanite jews
Click to expand...

Farroukh user from that forum suggested it could be under that branch
you can see Russian cases (Christians, Muslim Tatars, Chuvash)

E-Y2962 YTree

www.yfull.com www.yfull.com

p.s
this branch of e-m34>z841 doesn't look Jewish
 
Last edited:
Aahmes said:
It will likely be clear if we know the autosomal or downstream SNPs of the sample, but it could be a remnant of Radhanite jews
Click to expand...
There is this guy on Molgen forum named Farroukh and he mentioned that there is a Russian noble family of Varangian origin known as House of Islenev and they are apparently E-M123 though I forgot the specific branch. So another possibility could be Scandinavian, as there is also a sample from Gotland Sweden that is 100% confirmed to be E-M123 specifically E-M123->E-M34->E-Z841. But who knows without further examination, maybe the sample is an Arab traveler (Ahmed ibn Fadlan?). Speaking of which, I kinda want to rewatch The 13th Warrior xD.
 
hi valerius ,
there is a new paper who checked for 17 y-str markers in 128 yemeni male students from sana'a
i used nevgen predictor
yemen-105 haplotype is clearly e-m123 >pf4428

1742219017704.png



1742219077894.png




source paper:

link.springer.com

The Yemeni genetic structure revealed by the Y chromosome STRs - Forensic Science, Medicine and Pathology

Yemen, with its rich historical background and strategic geographical position at a major crossroads of trade and migration, offers an ideal setting for exploring population genetics. This study aimed to develop a Y-STR database for a Yemeni population and compare it with existing regional...
link.springer.com link.springer.com




p.s
maybe you can add him to your e-m123* blog
it is 99% prediction ;)
 
Last edited:
kingdavid said:
a fascinating case ;)
AG3023 individual from Hellenistic Armenia
under e-m123

AG3023 - E-M123 / U3a2a - 祖源树TheYtree

祖源树TheYtree样本：AG3023
www.theytree.com www.theytree.com


location :
en.wikipedia.org

Aghitu - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org


source paper:



p.s
i don't know if he is under e-m34 or under e-ft20896
or in some new branch parallels to them
Click to expand...
I was browsing Yfull and apparently the sample has been uploaded there under E-Z841 (Extra details in the pics attached), confirming that it's under E-M123->E-M34 and not some other parallel branch. FTDNA confirms the same thing, which makes this the first E-Z841 sample to be found in the West Asia, as pretty much all other E-M123 & E-M34 samples found so far in the region are on E-M84, which is actually the dominant branch of E-M34 in Ancient Armenian samples (ancient sites such as Nerkin Getashen, Beniamin, and Syunik).

Regarding this sample from Aghitu, since the oldest E-M123 samples in general are associated with ancient Semites, I theorize he is of Aramean origin, as this branch is more "northern" among the sample distribution and doesn't have a heavy concentration in Arabia, which rules out an Arab origin. And of course that Arameans were widespread across West Asia, reaching the Caucasus as well.

If you or anyone else has ideas that they want to share about this sample, feel free to do so.
 

Attachments

  • 20251017_172309.jpg
    20251017_172309.jpg
    159.1 KB · Views: 174
  • 20251017_172431.jpg
    20251017_172431.jpg
    46.2 KB · Views: 173
2 individuals ( I34930, I21285) under e-m123>ft20896
from akbari 2026 huge data
were uploaded to ftdna discover
kudos to ftdna for all there great work (y)

1776170659000.png




p.s
we don't know from where those sample
came and there exact dates but
I34930 is closest to modern day Tuscans
I21285 is closest to modern day Tajik
 
Hey guys, i already posted in the other e-m123 forum, i dont know which i should prefer so i just post these in both, sry if that is too much, and i should only post it in one

i dont know if you remember me, but i am the kurdish e-m123 sample, that split and formed a new branch from the others, which you called the indo iranian branch, the branch that went to asia (with IE Colonizers)

while i was here to ask if you could give me any new insights about my y-dna and its origins and meanings, i just found out that there is a new e-m123 sample, that is (i think) exactly classified as my own, and is now my companion if i get it right, so that means there is not only me anymore, belonging to this "new" branch, but now a second

but what i find mindblowing, is that this new e-m123, which is classified in my same exact subclad branch
is also kurdish XD XD, that's can't be a coincidence , and i dont know the guy, if somebody is thinking he might be my cousin or sth, he's not

So my 2 Questions would be, is there anything new you can say about the origin of my y-dna and its meanings?
and 2nd, are me and the other kurdish sample, closely related or have really old same roots, cause we have the same y-dna cluster (as symbolized in yfull) and we are both kurdish, from the same "genetic" pool so to say, so isnt it fair to say, that there is probably some connection, that could be really close because of these 2 similarities? ( and that these connections between me and him could give more research material insights about the origin, cause it could be a close connection?)

thank you for your effort by the way, of analyzing these y dna origins, cause i know nothing about these things, dont have any expertise like you, so i am thankfull that there are genuine people, who are interested in these topics and are willing to explain it in simpler terms for an outsider like me, so i can understand it XD
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top