European R-M269 older than Yamnaya Culture?

[bar don]

The high density (very relative indeed) of an ancient subclade in recent times doesn't tell us where it was the denser in ancient time. Not only for people move, but also because it can show where a relatively not too niverous pop stayed,too tiny to produce a lot of new downstream SNP's. And the % are indicative only if they refer only to the same root (Y-R1b here) and not to the allover Y-haplo's. What isn't to say that the todate "high density" is by force far from the real source region.

goes both ways.
I have graves older than some of their theories.. I then simply stepped back.
I am quite convinced after 5 years of reading: No yanmaya, for my m269.
my y700 even gathered r1b-v88..living testers with names. 100% african.

there is a trail missing.. I hope science finds it. Yanmaya makes no sense at all in any way shape or form..especially for western african.

I am in the R-L238..veered off from the very spanish L151 into very western p312... Even my trueancestry has me in top matches with no subclades matches at all.
I am unfound.

my closest grave is iceland 850CE, that is with y700 results. tsg-a1 i think it is.. I am one of the 6 people in the ph1220 notes. and one they found in etrsucan as the more broad L238..
I think we scooted right across the med in 3 places.
sicily, italy, iberia...perhaps croatia, greek islands.
no arabia, no siberian icebergs..no caucusus mountains.

there is an egypt however...
I stay tuned. Another real oddity for me.. my lower jaw and teeth matched a native american grave.
my closest Y relatives contain eriksson and other famous seafarers.

 

[eupator]

Modern day R1b-Z2103 is mainly concentrated over the heavily fortified settlements in ruins of Sintashta-Arkaim(known for warriors with horse and chariot burials) -- the dominant ydna used to be R1a-Z93+ looks like it is R1b-M269 in modern day.

Modern Z2103 actually peaks in Armenians and other groups in the neighbourhood.

 

[Silesian]

Modern Z2103 actually peaks in Armenians and other groups in the neighbourhood.

Armenians cluster under Z2103-L584+. Bashkirs(what used to be Sintashta) Z2109+(Yamnaya-Z2109+). Ossetians-Sarmatian(Alan's)Z2110+.

 

[A. Papadimitriou]

My hypothesis would be that R1b-V88 moved to Africa during the Green Sahara period. It was from a European Hunter Gatherer related population, maybe what we call WHG.
So there could be traces of this probably WHG related West Eurasian language in Chadic.

Then we should see if some of them moved back to Europe, although they did not make an impact.

Z2103/Z2105 could have existed in proto-Turkic homeland. I believe it did.

Certainly the speakers of Common Turkic had a variety of haplogroups of various origins including Indo-Iranian, Yeniseian probably, 'Tocharian' related maybe etc. Maybe some of the later groups had small frequency but Baskhirs had high. There is no obvious connection to Arkhaim as far as I can tell.

 

[MOESAN]

goes both ways.
I have graves older than some of their theories.. I then simply stepped back.
I am quite convinced after 5 years of reading: No yanmaya, for my m269.
my y700 even gathered r1b-v88..living testers with names. 100% african.

there is a trail missing.. I hope science finds it. Yanmaya makes no sense at all in any way shape or form..especially for western african.

I am in the R-L238..veered off from the very spanish L151 into very western p312... Even my trueancestry has me in top matches with no subclades matches at all.
I am unfound.

my closest grave is iceland 850CE, that is with y700 results. tsg-a1 i think it is.. I am one of the 6 people in the ph1220 notes. and one they found in etrsucan as the more broad L238..
I think we scooted right across the med in 3 places.
sicily, italy, iberia...perhaps croatia, greek islands.
no arabia, no siberian icebergs..no caucusus mountains.

there is an egypt however...
I stay tuned. Another real oddity for me.. my lower jaw and teeth matched a native american grave.
my closest Y relatives contain eriksson and other famous seafarers.

Y-R1b-V88 was present in Mesolilithic in Europe - and it has nothing to do with R1b-L238 which is very European now and under P312 western European but also under M269 which has more chances to be from Central-East Europe.

 

[felipesc500]

Not only R-V88, indeed others variations were present in Europe during Mesolithic, like Iron Gates HG and several farmers from Balkans. Progress and Khvalynsk R1b wasn't even R-M269 , imo R1b-M269 went steppe via Tripolli's Raiders.

R1b came from R ANE Ancestors to Europe during LGM, so they mixed with WHG and brought several branches, Villabruna on Italy and then North Africa ---> Middle Eastern, some branch went to Caucasus and Samara-Don aerea(Khvalynsk type) and others to Balkans, those from Balkans merged with EEF and went Steppe at Early Neolithic.
Before farming spread to the aerea we couldn't seen any kind of R1b influence, only a few R-V88 from 7000 YBP, however Balkans were Fully R1b at that time, it means that R1b-M269 probably came from Balkans Meso-Neo population.