EV13 from Central Asia

[davef]

Modern crimininality is usually the result of oppression and exploitation of certain regions. The lack of equal opportunities to put it in a better way.

Take ex-Yugoslavia as an example with their fantastic athletes all over the world. There’s barely any famous football club in Europe without players from ex-Yugoslavia. Decades ago they could have all been war machines.

:spiderman: we will go back to ev-13

 

[Yetos]

ok to put some oil in fire
and give the 2 banned ones their right to apologise
the genetical theory at 1990's was giving E V-13 originated in central Asia
it was after 2004 and 2007 that change to middle East and balkans

 

[blevins13]

Threatening to brutally murder someone over a haplogroup thread on eupedia. Now i know I've seen it all.

Strange because looks a lot like Italian mafia threat....I guess in Mediterranean people behave similarly....


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[blevins13]

I just banned two people, and you want to continue it? I took care of it. Get back to E-V13, people!

Maybe this is where my husband gets that "testa dura", God help me.

This is a good observation, I have the same problem with my wife.....I guess this requires futures research if there is any relation between E-v13 mutation and testa dura behavior.....


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[davef]

This is a good observation, I have the same problem with my wife.....I guess this requires futures research if there is any relation between E-v13 mutation and testa dura behavior.....


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But your profile says you're R1b something :spiderman:

 

[blevins13]

But your profile says you're R1b something :spiderman:

My wife, her father is E-v13.....


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[blevins13]

But your profile says you're R1b something :spiderman:

I am R1b BY611, like many Albanian in this group.....so far mostly connected with Albanians from Montenegro and some few Serbs as well in Big-Y and Y-full matches.


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[rafc]

ok to put some oil in fire
and give the 2 banned ones their right to apologise
the genetical theory at 1990's was giving E V-13 originated in central Asia
it was after 2004 and 2007 that change to middle East and balkans

This seems rather odd. V13 was first discovered in 2006, and corresponded to an STR-pattern first identified in 2004. This is the paper where V13 was first identified: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16835895
Can you tell me which papers from the 90's mention V13?

 

[Yetos]

This seems rather odd. V13 was first discovered in 2006, and corresponded to an STR-pattern first identified in 2004. This is the paper where V13 was first identified: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16835895
Can you tell me which papers from the 90's mention V13?

Hammer 1997

M168 in DE C F means Eurasian origin

Underhill 2015

but we speak about protoforms of DE and E
before horn of Africa


You are correct
we do not speak about origin of V-13 but about earlier forms of E
that might be originated in Asia
yet I do not share this idea (at least for now)

 

[rafc]

Well deeper down there is a good case for the DE-split happening in Asia, and E actually migrating back to Africa, as D is only found in Asia. But that discussion is about a split that happened over 60k years ago. In any case E would have migrated back to Africa before it's descendants moved to the Levant, and from there to Europe.

 

[ardito]

My closest E-V13 matches (37 markers) on a popular testing website are all Tatar. With 12 markers, I have the usual suspects (Swiss, English, Greek, Albanian, Macedonian, Bulgar and even a few Saudi Arab matches). I am not that surprised about the Tatar part (my family is proud of its Central Asian roots), but about the E-V13: In Hungary, people usually think that E-V13 was there before the Hungarians or came during the Ottoman invasion /edit: of the Balkans/ with Christian refugees.

I found out that some Tatars claim descent from Soqrat Hakim, who came from Anatolia. This would explain a lot.

In addition to that, the Greek and later Venetian and Genoese colonies all over the Black Sea coast certainly left a genetic trace in the region that may have spilt to Usbekistan (baha) or even Northern India (SS1982). Do not underestimate the power of trade (Silk Road...) and the mobility of horsemen in Central Eurasia.

In my personal case, I have to deal with a relatively recent match (could be within the genealogical timeframe) from Tatarstan. We had /edit: in Hungary/ frequent Crimean Tatar invasions (last one in 1717), but it is quite the stretch from Tatarstan to Crimea as well. As a genealogist, I also know that the survival rate of an illegitimate child was close to zero from the mid-1600s (when the first birth registers were started) until the 1940s, so rape is a frequent, but not necessarily accurate conclusion. My ancestors most probably arrived to Hungary as Kypchaks/Cumanians. /Edit: At least IMHO it is the only logical explanation./

Concerning the Usbek (baha) a Northern Indian (ss1982) cases, I think the Mongolian population policy might have had something to do with the diffusions. Anyway, I am happy to have found two distant Eastern E-V13 brothers

OK, I haven't checked in for a while, the direction this thread took is quite shocking.
I probably answered all my questions myself, but is there anybody who could add to the topic?

 

[kuzmosi]

It is very interesting!

I'm Ev13 - Z5017-Z17107 too from Hungary. My family name, Küzmös is a cuman family name. Awesome, the first cuman descendant, with whom I meet is EV-13 too!!!! At this time, all of the known cuman descendant (you and me) are EV-13. And nobody with Q Y chr. And the cumans came from Central Asia to Europe.

 

[Piro Ilir]

Is that really called central-asia?

any way, IIRC the E-V13 as I read a few years ago was attributed to Macedonian troops via modern albania , as Macedonia ruled all of Albania from Alexanders father time until the roman-macedonian wars of 198BC-146BC

Alexander had many Thracian and Illyrian soldiers with him as well.
From Eupedia , Ev13 was part of bronze age IE warriors, and it ended up in a large area , which includes even the for mentioned

 

[Piro Ilir]

There are hardly any E's in the Turkic ftdna project,
https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Turkic/default.aspx?section=yresults
let alone E-V13. I know its a small sample but if E-V13 is so evident as its being claimed I am sure one would get more then this.
This is different to the balkan samples who although also have a tiny sample its already indicative as to what the dna says about geographical distributions.https://www.familytreedna.com/public/balkangenetics?iframe=yresults
As things stand when one amalgamates it into history the strong indications are that E-V13 radiates from Balkans to Asia (also attributed to the very low percentages found in North Africa) mainly through Greek colonization (well known and documented part of history). The oldest EV-13 sample found so far is in northern Spain (7000ybp), however that does not mean it originated there.

https://www.google.al/url?sa=t&sour...FjAeegQIBhAB&usg=AOvVaw3USf_IsfXQDGO04q3zfjEQ
His elite troops were composed by ethnic Albanians

 

[Piro Ilir]

Çok eziksin. Bu kadar ezik olma! Sen arnavut değilsin olamazsın. Benim yazdıklarımda senin için değil diğer milyonlarca benim kardeşim arnavutların. Türkçe yazdım sana cevap çünkü dedene nenene sor onlar bu dili biliyor bi zahmet sana ne yazdığımı anlatırlar. Kılıç artığısın Zanatis kılıç artığı. Senin soyunu kurutmamış osmanlı askeri şu an üzüldü bu yazdıkların yüzünden. Hayde maşallah dedene nenene...

Yxhym, ahrallym. Shejtan stykarachan , xhs xhan, ama aman. Stakafan ore xhan shejtan , ore hajdar istifar. Ychi ych, kara bytych

 

[Piro Ilir]

@Zanatis

after Ibrahim of Parga the Greatest Vezir that Ottoman empire ever had
most of Grand Vezir were Albanians, and Bosnians
as also even today a quite good % of Turkish army were and are Albanians
and many famous high rank generals were and are Albanians.

so axualonso view has a heavy point of truth.
political and military Albanians were very high in the Sultan's gate after Suleiman the magnificent times.

it is known that Greco-Byzantines who turn to Turks were the bone structure of early Ottoman empire,
even as Valinde, Hatun etc
even Serbs like Mara Despoina Hatun.
even Croatians from Skradini
but after Suleiman mostly Albanians and Bosnians kept the high political and military offices till late Ottoman times
and even today.

offcourse the today terminations of nationality is difficult to expressed,
since many modern nationalities in ex Ottoman empire modern countries and modern Turkey
become citizenships, usually after 3rd generation old nationality is abbandoned
and 4rth generation is considered native.

Ethnic Albans aren't anymore serving at high ranks of Turkish army. Erdogan send them almost all in prison. However, it's pretty strange why he did it. My personal opinion is that he don't trust them due to their secular political views, meanwhile Erdogan is against Qemal Atatürk's heritage.

 

[Angela]

Members are to keep Balkan politics out of these threads. Infractions have just recently been issued for insults arising from allowing politics and old grudges to enter the conversation. I don't want to give any more.

 

[Piro Ilir]

I believe that E-v13 is the only Balkan haplogroup known so far.....its mutation probably has happened somewhere in the Danubian basin.....


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In Eupedia Ev13 is considered an hoplgroup of IE bronze age warriors. It spread with them , which means it didn't with Neolithic farmers whom were G2 mostly.

 

[AdeoF]

Members are to keep Balkan politics out of these threads. Infractions have just recently been issued for insults arising from allowing politics and old grudges to enter the conversation. I don't want to give any more.

Now I understand why the modulators are becoming more stricter with all of that stuff from before here and other places.
Anyways what i know about the haplogroup E is that there are so many types of it from Africa to Europe and the migrations that created them. So no wonder there's a lot of talk about them.

BTW looking at the E-V13 map, nearly every European country has it so why are people talking about it in one area (this is supposed to be about the E-V13 is Asia!)

 

[Angela]

In Eupedia Ev13 is considered an hoplgroup of IE bronze age warriors. It spread with them , which means it didn't with Neolithic farmers whom were G2 mostly.

We have found no Bronze Age warriors with E-V13, so there is no proof for that speculation. Even if some such samples were found, it would not change the fact that E-V13 probably came to Europe from the Near East. The trail seems to lead back to the southern Levant.

You might want to read some of the newer papers which give the y lines of ancient farmers from the Near East.

https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/34850-Important-papers-for-newbies-to-Population-Genetics