First Genomes from Ancient Egypt

That is interesting. I've seen hundreds of mixes and never heard of that before. Do they have available public pics, like a FB profile or something? I believe you, but I find it so bizarre that it must be a rare occurrence.

no I don't have any pics or links to some site, but it is a genuine case
I agree with you that most of the time the children have a complexion in between that of the parents, but appearantly it doesn't have to, although in that case I guess it happens in the 2nd generation
 
I don't know what you mean by that. They had a lot of "farmer" ancestry. Perhaps it was more Levant Neolithic, but Levant Neolithic contained minority Anatolian Neolithic, just as Anatolian Neolithic contained minority Levant Neolithic. Plus, which European farmers do you mean? The early Neolithic farmers in Europe picked up almost no additional WHG. That only happened thousands of years later in the MN, when it went up to about 20-25% depending on the area.

Of course, it seems the Egyptians from the era in question did have some Iran Chl. type material, but it wasn't much. They did have, for a lower bound number, about 6% SSA, which European Neolithic people did not.

The skin pigmentation of European farmers also seems to have been quite different. On the other hand, everybody at that point in time was darker than today.

Sorry, I was going by the chart Hauteville posted, page 1 of this thread. The ancient Egyptian samples have some Anatolian by that chart (indicated by the shred of "dark blue"), but not much. Natufian seems to be the dominant component.

I'll admit, I may not know what I'm talking about :).
 
The Fayum mummy portraits might give us some idea what the people in the later part of this "ancient Egyptian" period looked like, although they might have a little admixture from Hellenistic and Roman periods.

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There were a few lighter ones too:
220px-Fayum-13.jpg


It's to be expected given that there's going to be variation.

I don't think my Bedouin, Yemeni example is that far off. :)

Copts generally look different to me, more like some Samaritans if they were darker: not such fine feature in a lot of them, and more SSA. Perhaps the "SSA' in the Copts is less East African than in these ancient Egyptians?
 
Just to throw it in...Nefertiti

nefertiti01.jpg


I think she's stunning.

Kemsit, the Pharaoh Mentuhotep's Nubian queen:
kemsit.jpg


I think the difference is obvious, yes?
 
Third one down from the top looks very Arabian so you may be right about ancient Egypt being close to Saudis.
 
The Fayum mummy portraits might give us some idea what the people in the later part of this "ancient Egyptian" period looked like, although they might have a little admixture from Hellenistic and Roman periods.

It would be interesting to see if Natufian/LevantN heavy SW Asians look similar to Sardinians. I tend to think the stero typical Middle Eastern look derives from IranNeo-CHG.
 
The ADMIXTURE analysis in Supplementary Info Figure 4 is the best I've seen. It isolates a Natufian(ish) component, IranNeo/CHG(ish) component, AnatoliaNeo(ish) component, and EuroHG(ish) component.

The results are consistent with what qpADM and D-stats give. Sardinia scores a little in the Natufoan(ish) and IranNeo/CHG(ish) components. What I think has made Sardinia so special is its lack of Steppe/ANE-heavy ancestry which all other Europeans have a lot of. Sardinia might have as much Near Eastern ancestry as other Italians but because they lack Steppe ancestry they pack a lot more AnatoliaNeo ancestry.
 
It would be interesting to see if Natufian/LevantN heavy SW Asians look similar to Sardinians. I tend to think the stero typical Middle Eastern look derives from IranNeo-CHG.

I have no idea what you're talking about, as usual. Why would Sardinians look particularly southwest Asian?

Saudis are 65% SW Asian. Palestinians are 36% SWAsian

Sardinians are 8.7% SWAsian.
 
I have no idea what you're talking about, as usual. Why would Sardinians look particularly southwest Asian?

Because Natufians, who makeup most of that SW Asian component in the paper, might be closely related to Anatolia Neolithic.
 
Because Natufians, who makeup most of that SW Asian component in the paper, might be closely related to Anatolia Neolithic.
I knew you must have forgotten the percentages for SW Asian in Europeans, but you persist even after I provided the percentages for SW Asian in the post above?

I take it you've also forgotten that the early farmers who went to Europe were extremely close to Anatolia Neolithic, and that Anatolia Neolithic had only a minority component of Levant Neolithic, which was also not completely Natufian? Perhaps you want to review those papers and the stats for these populations.

In addition to all of that, of course, the Sardinians have a pretty big chunk of WHG.

So, again, I don't know why on earth you'd think Sardinians would look particularly southwest Asian.
 
There's variation everywhere, so I don't think blanket generalizations are at all helpful, but no, most Sardinians don't look at all southwest Asian, if what you mean is Arabian or Palestinian looking. You've obviously not seen very many of them.

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Famous people from Saudi and Palestine:

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I can't imagine where you get these ideas.
 
He's implying that Anatolia Neolithic, Levant Neolithic and Natufians all hail from the same stock, Anatolia Neolithic is just more WHG admixed.
 
Those samples have an extra Iran_Neolithic, maybe they are mixed with Hyksos more than purest ancient Egyptians.

The site where the samples come from have no record of Hyksos or Greek settlements + they are burried in typical Egyptian fashion. There is absolutely no way that they were mixed with Hyksos. They are Iran_Neo admixed because the ancient Egyptian derive most likely from late-Neolithic or Bronze Age Levant. This would explain why ancient Egytpain language is linguistically closer to Semitic than Berber. It is because it left the South Levant as a secondary wave of Afro_Asiatic speakers. After the Proto Berbers left earlier.
 
This one is a coment by "washington post" about the topic:The scientists compared these ancient genetics with those of 100 modern Egyptians and 125 modern Ethiopians that had been previously analyzed. If you ask Egyptians, they'll say that they have become more European recently, Krause said. “We see exactly the opposite,” he said.


So The post is saying that back then many Egyptians from this site looked more European

Not more European but more Caucasian aka Near Eastern.
 
He's implying that Anatolia Neolithic, Levant Neolithic and Natufians all hail from the same stock, Anatolia Neolithic is just more WHG admixed.
Anatolian Neolithic was surprisingly more distinct than just WHG admixture. IIRC Anatolian Neolithic was 10% WHG, 20 Natufian and the rest (70%) their own stock, Anatolian farmers.

Well, they are related by ancient relatives belonging to 3 major admixtures/groups, though in different proportions, and they have drifted way through thousands of years of separation. Here are their genomes in HarappaWorld GedMatch run.

M041601MergedM54279I0746
NatufianAnatolian EF
Run time 6.39 Run time 10.20
S-Indian- S-Indian-
Baloch- Baloch-
Caucasian 13.98 Caucasian 35.90
NE-Euro- NE-Euro 3.91
SE-Asian- SE-Asian-
Siberian- Siberian-
NE-Asian- NE-Asian-
Papuan 0.68 Papuan-
American- American-
Beringian- Beringian-
Mediterranean 27.39 Mediterranean 46.12
SW-Asian 53.62 SW-Asian 14.03
San- San-
E-African 4.33 E-African-
Pygmy- Pygmy-
W-African- W-African-

They have mostly similar admixtures (living relatively close by), but in so different proportions that it makes them very distinct.
 
Thank you, LeBrok.
 
Here are the 3 ancestral populations of every Near Easterner today, well major ancestral components. Natufian, Anatolian and Iranian farmers. Iranian is quite different, though united with the first two by local Caucasian component.

M041601MergedM54279I0746M967114 I1290
NatufianAnatolian EFIranian Neolithic10 kya
Run time 6.39 Run time 10.20 Run time 7.91
S-Indian- S-Indian- S-Indian 6.13
Baloch- Baloch- Baloch 62.71
Caucasian 13.98 Caucasian 35.90 Caucasian 24.97
NE-Euro- NE-Euro 3.91 NE-Euro-
SE-Asian- SE-Asian- SE-Asian-
Siberian- Siberian- Siberian-
NE-Asian- NE-Asian- NE-Asian-
Papuan 0.68 Papuan- Papuan 0.35
American- American- American-
Beringian- Beringian- Beringian-
Mediterranean 27.39 Mediterranean 46.12 Mediterranean-
SW-Asian 53.62 SW-Asian 14.03 SW-Asian 3.88
San- San- San 0.18
E-African 4.33 E-African- E-African-
Pygmy- Pygmy- Pygmy-
W-African- W-African- W-African 1.78
 
Now, Levant Neolithic and BA samples, plus modern Lebanese, Palestinian, Bedouin and Egyptian.

M115616I0867M291439I1706ModernModernModernModern
Levant NeolithicLevant BALebanesePalestinianBedouinEgyptian
Run time9.93Run time13Run timeRun timeRun timeRun time
S-Indian- S-Indian0.26S-Indian1S-Indian1S-Indian0S-Indian1
Baloch- Baloch3.57Baloch11Baloch7Baloch5Baloch3
Caucasian25.97Caucasian37.26Caucasian41Caucasian39Caucasian21Caucasian28
NE-Euro- NE-Euro- NE-Euro3NE-Euro1NE-Euro2NE-Euro1
SE-Asian0.07SE-Asian0.62SE-Asian1SE-Asian0SE-Asian0SE-Asian0
Siberian- Siberian- Siberian1Siberian1Siberian0Siberian0
NE-Asian0.06NE-Asian0.43NE-Asian1NE-Asian0NE-Asian0NE-Asian0
Papuan- Papuan- Papuan0Papuan0Papuan0Papuan0
American- American0.34American0American0American0American0
Beringian- Beringian- Beringian0Beringian0Beringian0Beringian0
Mediterranean32.53Mediterranean12.01Mediterranean13Mediterranean12Mediterranean7Mediterranean17
SW-Asian39.86SW-Asian44.73SW-Asian23SW-Asian31SW-Asian56SW-Asian33
San- San- San0San0San0San0
E-African1.52E-African- E-African3E-African5E-African5E-African12
Pygmy- Pygmy0.4Pygmy0Pygmy0Pygmy0Pygmy0
W-African- W-African0.38W-African1W-African1W-African3W-African6
 

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