G2a origins: what to believe?

Yes G2a is for a long time in Anatolia so you think that the Turks moved them in this era of Greece after the fall of Constantinople just 500 years ago ? and it is sufficient to see this hot spot ? I don't think so because there are many G2a3a in the FTDNA project who come from a Macedonian origin and who are not Turks .
As i said, G2a was spread from Asia minor to Greece/Macedonia during Hellenic times... that is uniform colour on Maciamo's map showing lower frequencies there... in addition, the area where hotspot is was few centuries ago settled by Turks... among those culturally and linguistically Turkish people, many have pre-Turkic roots, as it is the case in whole Turkey (see distribution of G2a there)...
adding this layer on top of layer with spread of G2a same as in the rest of Greece did increase frequencies of G2a...
if Ancient Macedonians were dominantly G2a we would for sure see stronger spread of G2a in original position of ancient Macedonia state

752px-ExpansionOfMacedon.jpg


but there it is same as in the rest of Greece... in fact, if you look carefully, hotspot of G2a falls more into Thessaly area that was out of Ancient Macedonia

Haplogroup_G2a.gif
 
hotspot

I dont believe that Turks could make these hotspots only in G2a group. Turkey has 89% of all other groups and only 11% of G2a. Why isnt there a hotspot of all other Y haplogroups along with G2a. Turks are also R1a, R1b, E3b,... and more R1b than G2a. Why isnt there a hotspot that corresponds with 89% Turkish genes R1b,R1a,E3b and other. What could happen that Turks sudelny loose 89% of their genes.


For 300 years my ancestors lived in Zemun part of AutroHungarian empire, where they got land for fighting the Turks, as catholics and protecting Austo-Hungarian empire. They came form Poland as far as I know my surname is only found in Poland and probably originates form todays Ossetic language. This is IE Iranian branch.
 
I dont believe that Turks could make these hotspots only in G2a group. Turkey has 89% of all other groups and only 11% of G2a. Why isnt there a hotspot of all other Y haplogroups along with G2a. Turks are also R1a, R1b, E3b,... and more R1b than G2a. Why isnt there a hotspot that corresponds with 89% Turkish genes R1b,R1a,E3b and other. What could happen that Turks sudelny loose 89% of their genes.

hotspot in Greece is 12% (http://www.familytreedna.com/pdf/italy.pdf), it is hotspot not because it is big percentage but because in surrounding area G is around 3 to 5%... 12% is more or less same level as in Turkey (do not expect flat 11% spread accross Turkey either)

exactly that area was settled by people from Turkey

742px-Balkans-ethnic_%281861%29.jpg


so, I see no good reason not to relate the hotspot to settlement of people from Turkey...



For 300 years my ancestors lived in Zemun part of AutroHungarian empire, where they got land for fighting the Turks, as catholics and protecting Austo-Hungarian empire. They came form Poland as far as I know my surname is only found in Poland and probably originates form todays Ossetic language. This is IE Iranian branch.
calm down... no one claims that haplogroup G is turkic marker...
thing is that some carriers of G lived in Asia minor as well, and when area was conquered by Turks they were assimilated into Turks...

most of haplogroup G in Europe was spread by Alans...
even G in Turkey might have been spread by Alans related people...
 
There is nothing to calm about for the part you referd to . This was my first post and those are some informatons about what I know of my background.
Think of it as my introduction to you.

Also I do not want to connect myself to some heroic ancient people, Alexander or else. I see no enemies in today Turks either. On the contrary. My idea was that tthese people were Circassians settled in Ottoman lands when expelled from Caucasus. This post is only for determining truth.

exactly that area was settled by people from Turkey


If I see well Red is the representing colour for Turks. Why is then only this "northern" part of Greece in hotspot. It should be three hotspots. Also in todays Bulgaria and Bosnia.

3 to 5%... 12% is more or less same level as in Turkey (do not expect flat 11% spread across Turkey either)

Actually it is 1-2% in surrounding areas, and it rose to 12-15% when "Turks" came,so it was a big group of people if G2a who are 1/10 th of that group rose in pecent to 12-15%. I just wanted to know what happened to R1b Turks who are 10-25% in Turkey. Why this people are not visible in in Hotspot area and why they dint rose percent also. R1b was 10% previosly. Proportionaly it should be aruond 28% now of R1b in the hotspot. What happened to Turks of all other groups - 89% of them (including previous). E3b is 21% in Turkey, J1 is 12,5% and they should be visible too much more than G2a. What about all other groups that live only in Turkey why they are not visible? It just looks to much rounded about 1/10 of Turkish genes.

I liked your previous post very much, not because of hittites and alexander but brave interpretation of something that looked very plausable. I look forward to not being related at all with any of those great ancient civilisations, only to see out of the box oppinions of historical thruths, when applied to DNA knowledge.

Also I would want to say something else. When you wanted to see this hotspot being an ancient Macedonian settelment you saw how this hotspot directly corensponds to your idea. I suspect many of people reading believed you. Afterwards, your new theory produced also not so acurate version hotspot being so much out of those boundaires.
It was very interesting to me but I respect your energy and open mindness that in real life do produce such small mistakes. These told me you are a person who seeks the truth sincerelly.

Thank you for your time.
 
There is nothing to calm about for the part you referd to . This was my first post and those are some informatons about what I know of my background.
Think of it as my introduction to you.

ok, I aplogize for misunderstanding mention of your background as emotionally related to discussion about origin of G hotspot in Greece...

My idea was that tthese people were Circassians settled in Ottoman lands when expelled from Caucasus. This post is only for determining truth.

that is possible... is there historical data about their settlement in Greece and about possible locations? I could not find anything on wikipedia...

If I see well Red is the representing colour for Turks. Why is then only this "northern" part of Greece in hotspot. It should be three hotspots. Also in todays Bulgaria and Bosnia.

it may happen that hotpsots exist there as well but that sampling was not done in that area... e.g. in Bosnia they did take samples from all over Bosnia but without regional determination except of split on two regions: Bosnia and Herzegovina... with total number of people sampled in Bosnia and Herzegovina being at most few hundreds, it is very clear that one cannot see influence of G hotspot in single small county...

Further on, we do not know whether Turkish settlements still existed after liberating those areas from Turks... I can imagine that the ones in borderline places were forced to move out, while the ones surrounded by native people were aloud to stay...

Actually it is 1-2% in surrounding areas, and it rose to 12-15% when "Turks" came,so it was a big group of people if G2a who are 1/10 th of that group rose in pecent to 12-15%. I just wanted to know what happened to R1b Turks who are 10-25% in Turkey.

Why this people are not visible in in Hotspot area and why they dint rose percent also. R1b was 10% previosly. Proportionaly it should be aruond 28% now of R1b in the hotspot. What happened to Turks of all other groups - 89% of them (including previous). E3b is 21% in Turkey, J1 is 12,5% and they should be visible too much more than G2a. What about all other groups that live only in Turkey why they are not visible? It just looks to much rounded about 1/10 of Turkish genes.

Turkey has lot of regional oscillations in frequency of haplogroups... so it is possible that settled group origins from region reach in G, and poor in R1b.... which would be from southwest part of Asia minor

R1b-map.JPG


Haplogroup_G2a.gif
 
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I think Y DNA G2a3b1 has a Indo Iranian origin in Europe

About Y DNA G2 and Indo Aryans (Mitanni and Kassite connection)

http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2010/12/solution-to-problem-of-indo-aryan.html
problem of Indo-Aryan origins the Dagestan component that he detects in Indian Brahmins
Y DNA G2a3b1 found in Caucasus (Dagestan) and also among the Indian Tamil Nadu upper caste . This is an interesting paper on Y DNA G2a3b1 among the Brahman caste of Tamil Nadu south Indian ethnic group
(Updated Nov 13, 2010; Originally posted in March 2009) http://php.scripts.psu.edu/faculty/a/x/axr15/My_Paternal_Ancestry.htm

You can read : "the G haplogroup is present in about 13% of Iyengars (most of whom are likely to be G2a3b1), 11.1% of Bihar Paswans, 11% of Gujarati Brahmins, 10% of Iyers, 3.3% of Maharashtra Brahmins, 3.6% of Punjabi Brahmins (as well as other Punjabis), and a few other groups with small representations: Parsis (Zoroastrian) and Ambalakarars (Kerala temple dwellers)."

(When you have more than 10 % of G2a somewhere this a very high level because the Haplogroup G is extremely rare over the world)

The most interesting thing is that you have Y DAN R1a Y DNA J2 or Y DNA R M269 in the Lower caste but not G2a* who is in a great majority among the Upper caste from a Indo Aryan origin . So I am not sure that Y DNA J2 is really concerned by the relation ship between Caucasus and Indian Brahmans . Thats more significant when you know that Y DNA G2a is extremely rare and Y DNA R1a ,Y DNA J2 or Y DNA R-M269 are found on a large scale at very high level in many areas on Asia near east or Europe (East and West) so you can to associate them many different cultures this is not really the case about G2a who seems to be a good tracer in that case .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iyengar
Haplogroup Distribution among the Iyengars

As per popular belief, Iyengars are descendants of Indo-Aryan migrants originally from North India, as are their Smartha counterparts, the Iyers. Like all brahmin communities,the Iyengars are also classified based on their gotra, or patrilineal descent.



diagrameG.JPG
 
For now I would stick to a Circassian deportation idea. I will try to make more of it. One Circassian tribe of Shapsughs have 81% of G2a.

I have no problem with Turkish origin idea itself. My problem consists two things:

- I see hotspots generaly as a very distinct DNA formation. If no other group matches their ( G ) presence in those hotspots (this one and any other), this signifies a large % of G people in a migratory group that made a hotspot. I see no G group hotspots in Turkey that could indicate a potent % of G group. It is rather uniform and I agree with you it is such due to an old settlement from possibly 6000 years ago.

-I agree that Turkish genes could vary from place to place, but (On your map there is no R1b under 15%. I know that Serbia, Croatia, and Bosnia have 7-15%). In worst case ( on my map it is 10%) a R1b must have accompanied the G2a and have made a visible impression on hotspot. Not to mention J1 that is more prominent than G2 , is situated where R1b lacks in %, and is almost absent in Greece. Also all other groups should have left some mark for me to be convinced.

For now, I see no reason to believe that such a small group could leave such a genetic imprint without all other potential groups( which are in general more potent for leaving an imprint) leaving an imprint also.




The other story could be more interesting:

I believe in part of your previous posts of Hittites being connected to G as well as R1b. This is why:

1. Hittites king name was Hatushilli. Still today Georgian surnames end with Shvili or shilli.

2. Their capital was made on the hillside on a very rough terrain, two times in a year cut off, and covered in snow.They had a technique of building on steep hillsides and boaring a granite rocks to make this marvelous city for 50000 people. They were hundreds of miles from nearest rivers and roads.They had no water but one from rain in basins made uphill and piped to the city.

You could not make anyone just for sake of it to make a city on a hillside or to learn all the necessary engineering to do so, (as an architect I know it is impossible to learn such skills on the way or even in terms of centuries living on mountains), or to deprive people of water and contact with other people, to make those people live in conditions where there is a lack of oxygen, water, and human contact, in presence of harsh elements, to build this city, if those people did not originate in a mountain culture.
And a specific one that used all the skills learned in centuries or millenniums of living in high mountains to be able to organize mountain skilled and roughened by climate highlander people to make such a city.It still had to meet all the needs of that people. Many people from valleys could not even breathe there for a long time, not to mention work on such a task, play, create art, wage wars, or in general to be satisfied living in such conditions.

Personally, I believe they originated in Caucasus.

3. For hundred years scientists could not read their script and then they read one word: wa-a-tar, or something like that, that was the word from IE languages. So, to their (a part of scientific circles) surprise, they concluded these people must have been people from Europe, since they could not see any other culture that could be potentially be more connected. Some of them argued that it must came from Europe since IE languages only traveled from Eurasia to Europe on northern route.

I was not convinced. Not only Caucasus have IE languages (My surname is derived from IE Ossetian language), but 50 mostly unknown languages are spoken today in Caucasus (genetically close people). About the northern route that my ancestors actually have undertaken, it was not, in my opinion, a primary route for spreading IE languages, as G2a and R1b groups prove by Anatolian connection, but rather from Caucasus to Anatolia.
Concerning R1b, it also originates in Georgia today, but this map of R1b in nowdays Anatolia shows two more (waves?) of R1b that could be Roman? I believe that R1b and G2a were in similar proportion when coming to Anatolia.
 
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Personally, I believe they originated in Caucasus.

yes, look at this figure from wikipedia...

800px-Mass_migration_of_Greece_and_Turkey_in_1900BCE.svg.png


so, I think we can assume that haplogroup G arrived to Asia minor from Caucasus mostly around 1900 BC with Hittites...

It is generally assumed that the Hittites came into Anatolia some time before 2000 BC. While their earlier location is disputed, there has been strong evidence for more than a century that the home of the Indo-Europeans in the fourth and third millennia was in the Pontic Steppe, present day Ukraine around the Sea of Azov. The Hittites and other members of the Anatolian family then came from the north, possibly along the Caspian Sea. Their movement into the region set off a Near East mass migration sometime around 1900 BC The dominant inhabitants in central Anatolia at the time were Hattians. There were also Assyrian colonies in the country; it was from these that the Hittites adopted the cuneiform script. It took some time before the Hittites established themselves, as is clear from some of the texts included here. For several centuries there were separate Hittite groups, usually centered around various cities. But then strong rulers with their center in Boğazköy succeeded in bringing these together and conquering large parts of central Anatolia to establish the Hittite kingdom.[1]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hittite_Empire


To reconstruct what could have happened we need to compare spread of G with spreads of I2a2, J2, E-V13, R1b and R1a

Haplogroup_I2a.gif

Haplogroup-J2.jpg

800px-HgE1b1b1a2.png

R1bmap.JPG

R1A_map.jpg


previous inhabitants were thus Hattians and Asyrians...
The Hattians were an ancient people who inhabited the land of Hatti in present-day central part of Anatolia, Turkey, noted at least as early as the empire of Sargon of Akkad ca. 2300,[1] until they were gradually displaced and absorbed ca. 2000-1700 BC by Indo-European Hittites, who adopted their name for the "land of Hatti".
...
The Hattians were organised in feudal city-states and small kingdoms or principalities. These cities were well organized and ruled as theocratic principalities. Even as they were taken over one by one by the conquering Hittites after ca. 2200 BC, the Hattians probably continued to form the major portion of the population.
...
The Hattians spoke a non-Indo-European language of uncertain affiliation called Hattic, now believed by some scholars to be related to the Northwest Caucasian language group.[4
...
The influence of their culture was such that the Hittites took over much of their religion and mythology.
....
The use of the word "Proto-Hittite" instead of Hattians is inaccurate. This would imply that the Hittites evolved from the Hattians, which is completely false. The Hittites were an Indo-European people, ethnically and linguistically distinct from the Hattians. However, the term "Land of Hatti" was so ingrained that the Hittites continued to use it when referring to their own country. The Hattians eventually merged with, or were replaced by, the Hittites, who spoke the Indo-European Hittite language
...
The Hattians and the Hittites apparently had different personal characteristics. Egyptian depictions of the Battle of Kadesh reportedly show long-nosed Hattian soldiers, while their Hittite leaders looked different according to Turkish archaeologist Ekrem Akurgal.[7]
Akurgal claims that "The Hattians were still the great majority of the population in the Hittite period."[8]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hattians

possible scenario of developments in Asia minor:
J2 is first layer in Asia Minor
J2 spread from Asia minor along sea coasts round 5000 BC resulting in Printed-Cardmium pottery
E-V13 spread to Balkan

800px-European_Middle_Neolithic.gif


R1b (and some R1a?) settle(s) in Asia minor from somewhere in Iran

R1b spread from Asia minor to west Europe together with some J2 (this is not the first wave of R1b to populate Europe; earlier waves did not carry J2 (see Basques area and Celtic areas in uk) and might have come from direction passing above Black sea)

R1a from Balkan spreads to Euroasia giving Scythians

early Scythian R1a settles in south of Asia minor among E-V13 people

R1a repopulates east Europe from Asia minor? (this is suggested by spread of E-V13 that seems to have spread that correlates with R1a and is absent in R1b areas same as it is the case for Asia minor)

in 2000 BC E-V13, some J2, and some R1a are what is called Assyrians, while R1b and some J2 are Hatti
I2a2 that was also present in Asia minor was pushed to west by arrival of Hettite....

Hittite (G and some J2) settle among Hatti (R1b and J2) and Assyrians (mix of E-V13, J2 and R1a)
...

finally Turks
The latest study from Turkey by Gokcumen (2008)[27] took into account oral histories and historical records. They went to villages and did not do a random selection from a group of university students like many other studies. Accordingly here are the results:
1) At an Afshar village whose oral stories tell they come from Central Asia they found that 57% come from haplogroup L, 13% from haplogroup Q, 3% from haplogroup N thus indicating that the L haplogroups in Turkey are of Central Asian heritage rather than Indian. These Asian groups add up to 73% in this village. Furthermore 10% of these Afshars were E3a and E3b. Only 13% were J2a, the most common haplogroup in Turkey.
2) An older Turkish village center that did not receive much migration was about 25% N and 25% J2a with 3% G and close to 30% of some sort of R1 but mostly R1b.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_origins_of_the_Turkish_people
 
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There are about 3 million Circassians in todays Turkey. They are decendants of exiled Circassians. They are almost all G2a

Since in original tribes of Circassia there were mostly G2a. Shapsugh tribe was one of the bigest tribes in 1850 priior to exile. Shapsugs today have 83,5 % of G2a but are low in numbers.
Because of I and R1a coming to Circassia or republika adigeja (russian province), today Circassia have only 30% of original population.

Also Russians setteled in Ossetia in great numbers most of their peasant populations and Cossaks (I2a2) snice distoying Circassia in atempt to eradicate local population. Much of old English books speak of very elaborate processes settling Russian population in Ossetia and Circassia, that Russia undertook prior and after Exiling 1.500.000 or 2.000.000 people in 1864. Only less than 500.000 survived this journey.



I promised to find Circassian evidence on hotspot but for now I couldn`t.
The majority of Circassians actualy left Balkan for Jordan Syria and Israel, where they were not accepted at first.


Circassian Diaspora
Quantity
Turkey 3,000,000
Syria 80,000
Jordan 65,000
Israel 3,595
United States 9,000
Kosovo (in 1998) 174 These went back to Circassia because of giving support to Serbia.
Germany 40,000
Netherlands 500



I did find a lot of evidence of Tukish settlements in Balkan countries and Greece. But it doesnt involve the Hotspot. Turks, and other sources speak in numbers not only map distibutions. They say Western Thrace is predominat with Turkish people.

135px-Thracians_Greece-Western.png


[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] The Turks and Pomaks[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]By Hugh Poulton, "The Balkans, Minorities and Governments in Conflict" (1993), Minority Rights Publication [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Assessing the number of Turks and other minorities in Greece is problematic. The census of 1928 recorded 191,254 Turks while the 1951 census recorded 179,895 Turks of whom virtually all were either Muslim by religion, 92,219, or Orthodox, 86,838. While some live on the Greek islands neighbouring Turkey, most live in Western Thrace. The Pomaks, Muslim Slavs, or a small number of Muslim Greeks, tend to live also in Western Thrace in villages in the southern Rhodope and due to the official reticence to give figures for ethnic minorities, only for religious ones, it is hard to separate them from the Turks; however, the villages near the Bulgarian border in all three provinces of Western Thrace are predominantly Pomak with the exception of some like Mikron Dereion which have a mixed population of ethnic Turks, Pomaks and Greek Orthodox, or others which have a sedentary Muslim Gypsy population. Many Pomaks also live in Komotini and Xantini and some also live in Dhidhimotikhon. [/FONT]


[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Of the other minorities there are small populations of Gagauz, Christian Turkish-speaking people, for example around the city of Alexandroupolis, and Sarakatsani, Greek speaking transhumants, especially in the village of Palladion. Fieldwork by F. De Jong in 1979, to whom much of the above is indebted, notes that there are no longer any Circassians in Western Thrace.[/FONT]

So Turks living in Grece should be visible mostly in Western Thrace.
I myself do not believe they could be visible at all, through G haplotype, since all Circassians allegedly left Western Thrace.

There were certanly G in Turkish army and those who settled in Balkan, but they are not visble enough since Turkish genes do no differ enough from Bosnian, Serbian, Bulgarian, and Greece populations. I believe much more Turks live in Serbia and Bosnia today but are not visible. Only their surnames that are of Tukish origin including words Beg, Ali, Pasa... survive.
 
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Iapetos, you are of g2a

and you seem to live in the G hotspot area, if I am right.

Are you indigenous in that area?

map.png
 
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Willy

The post that arrived in between from Willy adrressed an issue of G2a being closer to India. I believe in it to some point. I read that there were three thories of G beiing closer to Caucasus and the other being closer to foothills of Himalayas, and one in between.



The upper caste story does really look interesting., since a rare group is primarely concentrated in this caste. For what I know mixing in castes was forbiddden, so one group to have such an impact in one caste and to stay there for the time of Indias long history looks almost like a royal familly. Other groups could be in more than one caste only by previosly being lover and constanly approving in military sence to deserve position in upper caste.

I personaly dont believe these people were present there from the start, because it would be very hard to stay in these castes through long Indian history, but more as some military elite who imposeed themselves on local population making a more strict caste rule. That is only my oppinion, I could be wrong.
 
people of Georgia do origin from Laz people
kingdom of Lazica matches fairly well spread of G in Caucasus

Ge_lazika.png

Haplogroup_G2a.gif


Sarmatian Lazyges/Iazyges might be related but iranian speaking people....
Ossetians of today are likely descendants of iranian speaking Sarmatians
they also have very dominant haplogroup G as people of Georgia...
Ossetians are by Russians also called Iasi which is same as Iazyges...
however, they are considered to be descendant of Sarmatian Alans...
http://www.euratlas.net/history/europe/500/entity_6193.html

300px-Hispania_418_AD.PNG


question is whether some or all of G in Iberian peninsula is due to Alans who had there state together with Germanic Vandals and Suebi, or is some or all of it due to some previous inhabitants

727px-Iberia_300BC.svg.png


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b5/Iberia_300BC.svg

I would say that hotspot on the west is due to Lusitani
Lusitani does indeed seems to be similar word to tribal name Laz
 
The FTDNA G project had recently erase the Caucasus G2a3b1 cluster because the Europeans belong to the same subclades .If G2a3b1 comes from the G2a3 who was In Europe during the neolithic why there is no more G2a3 still in Europe ? why these few people G2a3 supposed to be from the European Neolithic had no time to make a large G2a3b1 population in Europe as R1b1b2 Atlantic modal ? The neolithic period is known to be an great period for a very large demographic expansion of the Europeans (mostly R1b1b2) so why G2a3b1 is few ? there is no reason only a recent migration during the bronze age could explain it .

It's not likely that G came from before ice age because it's not in basque country but spread by IE is even a sillier idea in my opinion.

We have a huge group of nearly all G in neolithic europe. It's believed etruscans were G as well (some people who say they were etruscans are all G).

The idea that a haplogroup forms by drift might be a big mistake, as the genes actually mean something. It could be that the G in europe did form here due to selection. It could be there was a lot more G in europe followed by a bottleneck that would also make it homogenous. It could be it all came from some civilization outside of caucus that was affected by climate change and we are seeing the only remnants. It's hard to say before but mostly we don't know much for sure, but hopefully will get a better picture in time.
 
It's interesting to note that a study found P15 (G2a) in 11% of Cretans, thus confirming my assumption that G2a moved from Georgia through turkey to Greece and the Greek islands, ending up in southern Italy and western Sicily in a place or two and then on the island of Sardinia. A Sicilian branch may later have moved towards the Bavarian alps and out from there, Joseph Stalin was paternal G. Which makes sense, as Georgia has the world's highest G frequency on a national level (30%) (without counting the Caucasus mountains Ossetian people, who have like 88% hg G. Interesting frequencies (10%) can be found in neighbouring turkey/Armenia and Iran, some parts of Azerbaijan as well.
 
It's interesting to note that a study found P15 (G2a) in 11% of Cretans, thus confirming my assumption that G2a moved from Georgia through turkey to Greece and the Greek islands, ending up in southern Italy and western Sicily in a place or two and then on the island of Sardinia. A Sicilian branch may later have moved towards the Bavarian alps and out from there, Joseph Stalin was paternal G. Which makes sense, as Georgia has the world's highest G frequency on a national level (30%) (without counting the Caucasus mountains Ossetian people, who have like 88% hg G. Interesting frequencies (10%) can be found in neighbouring turkey/Armenia and Iran, some parts of Azerbaijan as well.

In the alps , the following numbers from Ftdna for alpine tests only ..........G2a3 is very high.

N=190
56 xR1b*29.47%
34 xG2* 17.89%
31 xJ2*16.32%
23 xE1b1b112.11%
19 xI*10.00%
17 xR1a1*8.95%
4 x T1*2.11%
3 xL1.58%
2 xQ1b1
1.05%
1 xC30.53%

Of the G2*, 23 are G2a3.

Of the I1, 10 are I1, 4 are I2b1 and 5 are I2a*

My guess from reading the assyrian/armenian forums is that J2a4 ( there are 29 )numbers are most likely from bithynia, mysia or paphlongia .( northern Anatolia). Note ..only 1 is J1

And for the T marker , 3 are T1b and 1 is T1a
 
Very interesting Zanipolo.
 
In the alps , the following numbers from Ftdna for alpine tests only ..........G2a3 is very high.

N=190
56 xR1b*29.47%
34 xG2* 17.89%
31 xJ2*16.32%
23 xE1b1b112.11%
19 xI*10.00%
17 xR1a1*8.95%
4 x T1*2.11%
3 xL1.58%
2 xQ1b11.05%
1 xC30.53%

Of the G2*, 23 are G2a3.

Of the I1, 10 are I1, 4 are I2b1 and 5 are I2a*

My guess from reading the assyrian/armenian forums is that J2a4 ( there are 29 )numbers are most likely from bithynia, mysia or paphlongia .( northern Anatolia). Note ..only 1 is J1

And for the T marker , 3 are T1b and 1 is T1a



please, where these %s come from exactly? thanks beforehand
 
please, where these %s come from exactly? thanks beforehand

Ftdna project forum.............so they are based on present population.

The project manager with other genetic specialists does try to place these markers to ancient tribes. like
G2a L30+ M406+ Eastern Alpine? (Alpine-Illyrian?)

R1b P312+ U152+ Z36+ North Alpine? (Celtic?)

I2 P217+ M223+ Z161+ Z76+ Rhine Valley/Central Germany? (Central European?)

L M22+ M317+ DYS425=null Tyrolean/Ladin? (Italic-Med?)

T M70+ L131+ L446+ Alpine/Italic? (Med-ME?)

T M70+ L131+ L446+ Venetic/Adriatic? (Euro-Med?)

I1⇢Z58⇢Z59⇢CTS8647⇢Z60⇢Z140⇢F2642⇢F2735 candidate SE Alps, Anglo-Saxon ▶ Geno 2.0

etc

stated
Name indications of the Y-DNA groups: First the main haplogroup and terminal SNPs are showed, then the past should be visible by 700 year steps. Ca. year 1300 by positions of the member ancestors. Ca. year 600 by first proposed position/culture. Ca. year 100 BC by proposed position/culture in parentesis. The grouping goal is to find clusters with Common Ancestor (see also MRCA) not more then 3,000 years ago. The prediction is higly speculative and can only be made if a 37/67 marker profile is in the group and public FTDNA-Projects Matches (or elsewhere) are available
 

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