G2a origins: what to believe?

In terms of hg G, these are the world's highest frequencies in the Middle East in order: Georgians (30-32%), Azerbaijanis (18-20%), Southern Egyptians (17%), Northern Iranians (15%), Southern Iranians (13%), Turks have about 10%. Assyrians from Iran also have about 9% as do Ashkenazi Jews (10%) and Armenians (10%). Libya has about 8% and Egypt averages around 7-9% with lows of 2% and highs of 17% depending on the region. Frequencies are surprisingly low on the Arabian peninsula and across the Levant.
 
It's interesting to note that a study found P15 (G2a) in 11% of Cretans, thus confirming my assumption that G2a moved from Georgia through turkey to Greece and the Greek islands, ending up in southern Italy and western Sicily in a place or two and then on the island of Sardinia. A Sicilian branch may later have moved towards the Bavarian alps and out from there, Joseph Stalin was paternal G. Which makes sense, as Georgia has the world's highest G frequency on a national level (30%) (without counting the Caucasus mountains Ossetian people, who have like 88% hg G. Interesting frequencies (10%) can be found in neighbouring turkey/Armenia and Iran, some parts of Azerbaijan as well.

Freuquency ≠ origin. Though Georgia and Adyghe have high frequency of G2a, the most likely place of origin is somewhere between Iran-Levant-East Anatolia-South Caucasus.

G2a in connection with the Southern or Mediterranean/Southwest Asian autosomal dna lets me assume that G2a reached Europe through Southeast Anatolia or the Levant.
 
I know. It crossed from turkey-Greece-southern Italy-Sardinia. Notice how I mentioned FREQUENCY not age or diversity.
 
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I know. It crossed from turkey-Greece-southern Italy-Sardinia. Notice how I mentioned FREQUENCY not age or diversity.

But you drew a wrong conclusion out of it. Based on frequency you consider Georgia the place where G2a came to Europe, read your own comment above.
While the Levant, northern Mesopotamia or Anatolia is more likely the place where this Haplogroup started to migrate to Europe.
 
Then why is there a trail of G2a (P15) leading from Georgia, through Turkey, towards southern Italy/Sardinia?
 
Ftdna project forum.............so they are based on present population.

The project manager with other genetic specialists does try to place these markers to ancient tribes. like
G2a L30+ M406+Eastern Alpine? (Alpine-Illyrian?)

R1b P312+ U152+ Z36+North Alpine? (Celtic?)

I2 P217+ M223+ Z161+ Z76+ Rhine Valley/Central Germany? (Central European?)

L M22+ M317+ DYS425=null Tyrolean/Ladin? (Italic-Med?)

T M70+ L131+ L446+ Alpine/Italic? (Med-ME?)

T M70+ L131+ L446+ Venetic/Adriatic? (Euro-Med?)

I1⇢Z58⇢Z59⇢CTS8647⇢Z60⇢Z140⇢F2642⇢F2735 candidate SE Alps, Anglo-Saxon ▶ Geno 2.0

etc

stated
Name indications of the Y-DNA groups: First the main haplogroup and terminal SNPs are showed, then the past should be visible by 700 year steps. Ca. year 1300 by positions of the member ancestors. Ca. year 600 by first proposed position/culture. Ca. year 100 BC by proposed position/culture in parentesis. The grouping goal is to find clusters with Common Ancestor (see also MRCA) not more then 3,000 years ago. The prediction is higly speculative and can only be made if a 37/67 marker profile is in the group and public FTDNA-Projects Matches (or elsewhere) are available

Thanks for kind answer
My problem is: these %s of Y-HGs and SNPs are not level in the Alps and far from to be, I suppose (Alps is a large geographic zone with complicated history) - and I rely not too much on these DNA projects because they very often distord the genuine statistical data, their data obtained by their methods of recruting sample - I think it is interesting trying to find common ancestors and pathways and to date them but as I understand it is with STRs yet... I prefer well defined chains of SNPs -
thanks nevertheless
 
I recall a (half controversed) metric survey concerning South-Central Anatolia "peasants" near or at çatal Hüyük near Konya in South Central present days Turkey and the anthropological correlations with fist Greece "peasants" (neolithic) and at some level with "Rubanés" or "LBK" "peasants" of central Europe; classified by classical anthropology as 'danubian mediterranean' (not too strict type, but with very typical features in details, separating them very easily from other 'mediterranean' types; these traits were found too at last Neolithic in Alsace (E-France) and in Normandy: if well based, the trail would be Anatolia/Dardanelles Strait/Greece and Mediterranea for a part and Danau river for the other part?
If I remember well, an archeological (this time) trail was found between Anatolia (always Dardanelles) and the Eastern LBK-
if it can help to complete the Y-DNA data - for Austria-Switzerland I remain sceptical because Danau river could have seen Alani Y-G2 as well as Danubian agricultors Y-G2 (I have not a detailed SNPs data for Austria so...?)
 

if it can help to complete the Y-DNA data - for Austria-Switzerland I remain sceptical because Danau river could have seen Alani Y-G2 as well as Danubian agricultors Y-G2 (I have not a detailed SNPs data for Austria so...?)

Well, I already gave you a detailed Y-G2 on all of western Austria.( information is only 2 months old) I doubt you will find anything on eastern austria
 
Well, I already gave you a detailed Y-G2 on all of western Austria.( information is only 2 months old) I doubt you will find anything on eastern austria

OK and sorry! I'll look at it again even if only about a region -
it is true I now come on this forum only the week-end and I lack some regularity!
have a good evening!
 
OK and sorry! I'll look at it again even if only about a region -
it is true I now come on this forum only the week-end and I lack some regularity!
have a good evening!

if you want the full report, email me privately your email address and I will attach it for you
 
Then why is there a trail of G2a (P15) leading from Georgia, through Turkey, towards southern Italy/Sardinia?

Probably because they belong to the same wave of Neolithic immigrants whom moved into Europe anf Georgia roughly the same time.
 
to begin, thanks to SILE for a good link

Concerning Y-G (firstable) and Austria others HGs*:


*: a new article about East Tyrol (near Carinthia) separated from the big North Tyrol by the «italian» South Tyrol -
link:
www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0041885



title: «Pasture Names with Romance and Slavic Roots Facilitate Dissection of Y Chromosome Variation in an Exclusively German Speaking Alpine Region»



concerning Y-G:

in Austrian Tyrol (as a whole) the dominant form: 75,6% of Y-G, is the G-P15>L32>L497 one, brother to M406 : 4,8% and cousin to L293 (>> P16: 3,3% Caucasian people of today)and to L91: 4,4%(Ötzi/Mediterranean Isles: Corsica, Sardinia..) - the absolute percentages are 8,6% / 0,5% / 0,4% / 0,5% - (total Y-G 11%)

this absolute domination within G of L497 in Tyrol could be from: a founder effect outside before arriving in Tyrol, or one in Tyrol, or a local drift among more differentiated Y-G's – but in mountains valleys like that local recent enough drifts would have given differnet dominant SNP according to the valleys? - so an already dominant G-L497 before arriving in Tyrol seems to me less uncertain (it is found in a huge part of Europe but at very low level) – the STRs show a local type of L497, with dense distribution merely in the western parts of Tyrol and with a coalescence calculated as 5000 BC (roughly) – the median STR type (~ modal) of Tyrol is found too in some regions as north-eastern Bulgaria - eastern Romania, Moldavia, East to carpathians (post-Starcevo?), Ibiza and W-Majorqua in front of it (Baleares), coastal eastern Catalonia (Spain), a spot in Piemonte and a region linking Veneto to whole Tyrol, a spot in eastern Sicilia intrigues me – Rootsi (according to the authors of this study) thought this HG of Y-G2a is linked to LBK: it makes sense for me too – so, no tight link with later I-Eans, only for somones? - the mountainous localisation and age confirms that – I remember some skeletal remnants of 'danubian mediterranean' phenotypes too in calcholitical cultures (neolithic+copper) and in Rhodanian culture in N-Italy and N-Catalonia under cultural influences of N-Italy – so a 'danubian' Y-G2a population, more or less crossed with others, could have reached Tyrol and N-Italy when an other Y-G2a one carrying an other mediterranean subptype, colonised Mediterranea by sea, the two of them at early neolithical times – the differences of phenotypes could be due to a) first micro-racialisation or first crossings mediated by females in Anatolia – b) much more crossings on the females side for the maritime Cardial Y-G2a bearers? The G-L497 in the Baelares islands seem being arrived there from Catalonia, by land before navigating, contrary to the bulk of G-L91's of Sardinia and Corsica who where true maritimes ones and cardial -

to conclude: austrian Y-G2a-L497 = néolithical for the most, not bronze age nor I-Eans, at this stage of my knowledge – (the Etruscan hypothesislost force too) -

&: the Y-G2a-L283-P16 is very seldom everywhere except around Caucasus: I think they were not the first providers of neolithical bans of Europe and I bet they always stayed rather in the northern versant of Caucasus – I modify my first opinion concerning Alani: they were surely more Y-R1a than Y-G2a – the today highsport of Y-G2a in Ossetians is not due to Alani -



as a whole, the heavy (19%) but poorly variated Y-R1b-U106, dominant more in West than in East Austria, associated with a not negligeable % of Y-I1 (12%), is for me definitely linked to Germanic populations (Völkerwanderungen), whoever the tribe -



the study I put a link to above is focused on East Tyrol – it tries to link current Y-DNA to ancient populations by studying ancient toponymes (pasture places names): very interesting idea!

The E-Tyrol were colonised by Germanics around the 5/6° centuries, but not in everyplace – but before them were Romance speakers and Slavic speakers that fought lastly in 610 – the romance language disapearred progressively, and at the 14° cetury it was reduced to some places – as a whole, they say, slavic local placenames were found in East and North E-Tyrol, even Northwest, and romances names in South and Southwest, near the Veneto fronteers except some isolated places in Kals Valley in North-Northeast -

as a whole today: 71% germanic names, 17% slavic names, 12% romance names -
whatever the generations, there is surprising facts to extract of this study -
as a whole, S-Tyrol has more Y-R1b than N-Tyrol (42,2% > 32,0%), but «slavic» has much more of it than «romance» - in «slavic», U106 as opposed to U152 is very stronger than in «romance» (here, no surpise, «slavic» is northernly placed – almost NO Y-R1a in «slavic»!!! opposed to intuition! -
globally in the two «slavic and «romance», Y-G2a is P15 (weakly usefull: upstream to Caucasus and C-Europe sorts) – I shall come back on this subject after some brainstorm!
 
to begin, thanks to SILE for a good link

Concerning Y-G (firstable) and Austria others HGs*:


*: a new article about East Tyrol (near Carinthia) separated from the big North Tyrol by the «italian» South Tyrol -
link:
www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0041885



title: «Pasture Names with Romance and Slavic Roots Facilitate Dissection of Y Chromosome Variation in an Exclusively German Speaking Alpine Region»



concerning Y-G:

in Austrian Tyrol (as a whole) the dominant form: 75,6% of Y-G, is the G-P15>L32>L497 one, brother to M406 : 4,8% and cousin to L293 (>> P16: 3,3% Caucasian people of today)and to L91: 4,4%(Ötzi/Mediterranean Isles: Corsica, Sardinia..) - the absolute percentages are 8,6% / 0,5% / 0,4% / 0,5% - (total Y-G 11%)

this absolute domination within G of L497 in Tyrol could be from: a founder effect outside before arriving in Tyrol, or one in Tyrol, or a local drift among more differentiated Y-G's – but in mountains valleys like that local recent enough drifts would have given differnet dominant SNP according to the valleys? - so an already dominant G-L497 before arriving in Tyrol seems to me less uncertain (it is found in a huge part of Europe but at very low level) – the STRs show a local type of L497, with dense distribution merely in the western parts of Tyrol and with a coalescence calculated as 5000 BC (roughly) – the median STR type (~ modal) of Tyrol is found too in some regions as north-eastern Bulgaria - eastern Romania, Moldavia, East to carpathians (post-Starcevo?), Ibiza and W-Majorqua in front of it (Baleares), coastal eastern Catalonia (Spain), a spot in Piemonte and a region linking Veneto to whole Tyrol, a spot in eastern Sicilia intrigues me – Rootsi (according to the authors of this study) thought this HG of Y-G2a is linked to LBK: it makes sense for me too – so, no tight link with later I-Eans, only for somones? - the mountainous localisation and age confirms that – I remember some skeletal remnants of 'danubian mediterranean' phenotypes too in calcholitical cultures (neolithic+copper) and in Rhodanian culture in N-Italy and N-Catalonia under cultural influences of N-Italy – so a 'danubian' Y-G2a population, more or less crossed with others, could have reached Tyrol and N-Italy when an other Y-G2a one carrying an other mediterranean subptype, colonised Mediterranea by sea, the two of them at early neolithical times – the differences of phenotypes could be due to a) first micro-racialisation or first crossings mediated by females in Anatolia – b) much more crossings on the females side for the maritime Cardial Y-G2a bearers? The G-L497 in the Baelares islands seem being arrived there from Catalonia, by land before navigating, contrary to the bulk of G-L91's of Sardinia and Corsica who where true maritimes ones and cardial -

to conclude: austrian Y-G2a-L497 = néolithical for the most, not bronze age nor I-Eans, at this stage of my knowledge – (the Etruscan hypothesislost force too) -

&: the Y-G2a-L283-P16 is very seldom everywhere except around Caucasus: I think they were not the first providers of neolithical bans of Europe and I bet they always stayed rather in the northern versant of Caucasus – I modify my first opinion concerning Alani: they were surely more Y-R1a than Y-G2a – the today highsport of Y-G2a in Ossetians is not due to Alani -



as a whole, the heavy (19%) but poorly variated Y-R1b-U106, dominant more in West than in East Austria, associated with a not negligeable % of Y-I1 (12%), is for me definitely linked to Germanic populations (Völkerwanderungen), whoever the tribe -



the study I put a link to above is focused on East Tyrol – it tries to link current Y-DNA to ancient populations by studying ancient toponymes (pasture places names): very interesting idea!

The E-Tyrol were colonised by Germanics around the 5/6° centuries, but not in everyplace – but before them were Romance speakers and Slavic speakers that fought lastly in 610 – the romance language disapearred progressively, and at the 14° cetury it was reduced to some places – as a whole, they say, slavic local placenames were found in East and North E-Tyrol, even Northwest, and romances names in South and Southwest, near the Veneto fronteers except some isolated places in Kals Valley in North-Northeast -

as a whole today: 71% germanic names, 17% slavic names, 12% romance names -
whatever the generations, there is surprising facts to extract of this study -
as a whole, S-Tyrol has more Y-R1b than N-Tyrol (42,2% > 32,0%), but «slavic» has much more of it than «romance» - in «slavic», U106 as opposed to U152 is very stronger than in «romance» (here, no surpise, «slavic» is northernly placed – almost NO Y-R1a in «slavic»!!! opposed to intuition! -
globally in the two «slavic and «romance», Y-G2a is P15 (weakly usefull: upstream to Caucasus and C-Europe sorts) – I shall come back on this subject after some brainstorm!

thank you for information/analysis.
I ask the following
DYS390=22 for G ( or any other marker) is the largest at 75% of haplogroup G. It is only 1% of R1b. 92% of haplogroup T-L131

according to old and new updated Heyer study, this very rarely changes/mutates, can we say its neolithic european?

The Heyer study of 1997 recorded a mutation rate of zero for DYS390. Although the DYS390 marker has not exhibited a mutation rate as consistently low as DYS393 in other studies, the results of the Heyer study suggest that it is a relatively stable marker. As such, particular values of DYS390 may be acquired less often by random mutation, and therefore may be more likely to reflect a shared ancestry among the haplotypes that exhibit them.

The sense we get from these AMH variations is that they occur predominantly among the
Celts of continental Europe and their Teutonic brethren along the North Sea coast.

as per link below DYS390 starts from anatolia, through bulgaria , then through central europe and manly in alpine, italy and german lands
http://www.mymcgee.com/terrachart/Dys390InEurope.html

 
thank you for information/analysis.
I ask the following
DYS390=22 for G ( or any other marker) is the largest at 75% of haplogroup G. It is only 1% of R1b. 92% of haplogroup T-L131

according to old and new updated Heyer study, this very rarely changes/mutates, can we say its neolithic european?

The Heyer study of 1997 recorded a mutation rate of zero for DYS390. Although the DYS390 marker has not exhibited a mutation rate as consistently low as DYS393 in other studies, the results of the Heyer study suggest that it is a relatively stable marker. As such, particular values of DYS390 may be acquired less often by random mutation, and therefore may be more likely to reflect a shared ancestry among the haplotypes that exhibit them.

The sense we get from these AMH variations is that they occur predominantly among the
Celts of continental Europe and their Teutonic brethren along the North Sea coast.

as per link below DYS390 starts from anatolia, through bulgaria , then through central europe and manly in alpine, italy and german lands
http://www.mymcgee.com/terrachart/Dys390InEurope.html


thanks, but I'm not sure I understand your point about DS390!?! (STR) you speak about AMH variations, which ones?
what link with Y-G? I missed something, sure - could you go further in details, please
waiting to read you, have a good afternoon - by the way, even if stable enough, DS390 is not immuable, I think
 
to begin, thanks to SILE for a good link

Concerning Y-G (firstable) and Austria others HGs*:


*: a new article about East Tyrol (near Carinthia) separated from the big North Tyrol by the «italian» South Tyrol -
link:
www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0041885



title: «Pasture Names with Romance and Slavic Roots Facilitate Dissection of Y Chromosome Variation in an Exclusively German Speaking Alpine Region»



concerning Y-G:

in Austrian Tyrol (as a whole) the dominant form: 75,6% of Y-G, is the G-P15>L32>L497 one, brother to M406 : 4,8% and cousin to L293 (>> P16: 3,3% Caucasian people of today)and to L91: 4,4%(Ötzi/Mediterranean Isles: Corsica, Sardinia..) - the absolute percentages are 8,6% / 0,5% / 0,4% / 0,5% - (total Y-G 11%)

this absolute domination within G of L497 in Tyrol could be from: a founder effect outside before arriving in Tyrol, or one in Tyrol, or a local drift among more differentiated Y-G's – but in mountains valleys like that local recent enough drifts would have given differnet dominant SNP according to the valleys? - so an already dominant G-L497 before arriving in Tyrol seems to me less uncertain (it is found in a huge part of Europe but at very low level) – the STRs show a local type of L497, with dense distribution merely in the western parts of Tyrol and with a coalescence calculated as 5000 BC (roughly) – the median STR type (~ modal) of Tyrol is found too in some regions as north-eastern Bulgaria - eastern Romania, Moldavia, East to carpathians (post-Starcevo?), Ibiza and W-Majorqua in front of it (Baleares), coastal eastern Catalonia (Spain), a spot in Piemonte and a region linking Veneto to whole Tyrol, a spot in eastern Sicilia intrigues me – Rootsi (according to the authors of this study) thought this HG of Y-G2a is linked to LBK: it makes sense for me too – so, no tight link with later I-Eans, only for somones? - the mountainous localisation and age confirms that – I remember some skeletal remnants of 'danubian mediterranean' phenotypes too in calcholitical cultures (neolithic+copper) and in Rhodanian culture in N-Italy and N-Catalonia under cultural influences of N-Italy – so a 'danubian' Y-G2a population, more or less crossed with others, could have reached Tyrol and N-Italy when an other Y-G2a one carrying an other mediterranean subptype, colonised Mediterranea by sea, the two of them at early neolithical times – the differences of phenotypes could be due to a) first micro-racialisation or first crossings mediated by females in Anatolia – b) much more crossings on the females side for the maritime Cardial Y-G2a bearers? The G-L497 in the Baelares islands seem being arrived there from Catalonia, by land before navigating, contrary to the bulk of G-L91's of Sardinia and Corsica who where true maritimes ones and cardial -

to conclude: austrian Y-G2a-L497 = néolithical for the most, not bronze age nor I-Eans, at this stage of my knowledge – (the Etruscan hypothesislost force too) -

&: the Y-G2a-L283-P16 is very seldom everywhere except around Caucasus: I think they were not the first providers of neolithical bans of Europe and I bet they always stayed rather in the northern versant of Caucasus – I modify my first opinion concerning Alani: they were surely more Y-R1a than Y-G2a – the today highsport of Y-G2a in Ossetians is not due to Alani -



as a whole, the heavy (19%) but poorly variated Y-R1b-U106, dominant more in West than in East Austria, associated with a not negligeable % of Y-I1 (12%), is for me definitely linked to Germanic populations (Völkerwanderungen), whoever the tribe -



the study I put a link to above is focused on East Tyrol – it tries to link current Y-DNA to ancient populations by studying ancient toponymes (pasture places names): very interesting idea!

The E-Tyrol were colonised by Germanics around the 5/6° centuries, but not in everyplace – but before them were Romance speakers and Slavic speakers that fought lastly in 610 – the romance language disapearred progressively, and at the 14° cetury it was reduced to some places – as a whole, they say, slavic local placenames were found in East and North E-Tyrol, even Northwest, and romances names in South and Southwest, near the Veneto fronteers except some isolated places in Kals Valley in North-Northeast -

as a whole today: 71% germanic names, 17% slavic names, 12% romance names -
whatever the generations, there is surprising facts to extract of this study -
as a whole, S-Tyrol has more Y-R1b than N-Tyrol (42,2% > 32,0%), but «slavic» has much more of it than «romance» - in «slavic», U106 as opposed to U152 is very stronger than in «romance» (here, no surpise, «slavic» is northernly placed – almost NO Y-R1a in «slavic»!!! opposed to intuition! -
globally in the two «slavic and «romance», Y-G2a is P15 (weakly usefull: upstream to Caucasus and C-Europe sorts) – I shall come back on this subject after some brainstorm!

I ANSWER TO ME/ no offense, Moesan!
short: it seems Slavs (Slovenes?) colonized the northern and central parts of East Tyrol before germanization (we know this germanization occurred late enough) but a) were only a ruling "elite" without demic impact b) were numerous and got back after sometime (defeated by Latins?) without too much crossings and mixing, leaving their pastures placenames (Slavs had the REPUTATION (based?) of for destroying and renaming) c)- = close to b) were sweaped out during the germanic colonization (all the way leaving romance population under germanic rulers, and also their placenames - d) a romance population immigrated under germanic domination??? (less sensible)
 
I ANSWER TO ME/ no offense, Moesan!
short: it seems Slavs (Slovenes?) colonized the northern and central parts of East Tyrol before germanization (we know this germanization occurred late enough) but a) were only a ruling "elite" without demic impact b) were numerous and got back after sometime (defeated by Latins?) without too much crossings and mixing, leaving their pastures placenames (Slavs had the REPUTATION (based?) of for destroying and renaming) c)- = close to b) were sweaped out during the germanic colonization (all the way leaving romance population under germanic rulers, and also their placenames - d) a romance population immigrated under germanic domination??? (less sensible)

The slovenes must have arrived with the ostrogoths or behind them and the retreated once the germanic people came from the north into bavaria and then into modern Austria and slovenia. IMO it must be no more than 2 centuries if that, but carnico, friulian, ladin and rhaeto languages where spoken there and are still spoken there today, so how much influence did these slovenes have...........maybe it was onlya small ruling party, which forced the name changes
 
But how can you explain that the haplogroup G is rather frequent on the
fishermen island of Urk in the IJsselmeer in the Netherlands? The inhabitants
are pure descendants of the ancient Dutchmen, in-breeding and 85% have light eyes, but more than 50% have dark hair. I suppose that they are mostly Borreby and Bruenn/Aurignac descendants. They cannot have Alanic ancestors.

Y-DNA is being transferred from fathers to sons only. I reckon that makes it more prone to changes than any other genetic marker. If a father has only daughters - or if only daughters of his offspring survive long enough to have children - his autosomal DNA will continue to spread among the population. However, his Y-DNA will not. And the chance that fathers will have only daughters is not minimal, as our current monarch shows. That may indicate that the amount of certain Y-DNA, especially in small communities, may not represent the actual amount of input in that community by the original bearers of that haplogroup.
 
OK by the way, Alani were described by more than one as BLOND people, not dominantly DARK haired ones! but staying on the Y-DNA question (and its loose links with autosomals) I think true Alani were not Y-G2 for the most, surely more ont the Y-R1a side
 
OK by the way, Alani were described by more than one as BLOND people, not dominantly DARK haired ones! but staying on the Y-DNA question (and its loose links with autosomals) I think true Alani were not Y-G2 for the most, surely more ont the Y-R1a side
What about I2a? It's possible that blond hair is actually from I2a folks or maybe not even from Y-DNA at all, but from mtDNA of females. I'm starting to believe that blond hair and white skin has nothing to do with R1a, because ancestor of R1a*, R1* was dark...
 
What about I2a? It's possible that blond hair is actually from I2a folks or maybe not even from Y-DNA at all, but from mtDNA of females. I'm starting to believe that blond hair and white skin has nothing to do with R1a, because ancestor of R1a*, R1* was dark...

I'm not sure it will be useful for the remote origin of y-G2a but
I was speaking about Alani a supposed iranic people of the steppes, and based upon the fact the most of steppic I-Ean tribes men had Y-R1a, I supposed (without any proof) the HG Y-R1a was heavier among them than Y-G2a, without exclude a certain % of this last HG
I had not in mind that these steppic I-Ean analysed had AND mostly Y-R1a AND mostly fair hair, but it is a fact if not my point in my previous post -

the genes for pigmentation and the Y-HG could not be linked one to another at the very beginning but statistically become linked at a point of History -
don't forget too that if Y-R1* was dark pigmented, light pigmentation arose later among dark pigmented people so some depigmented Y-R1* could give birth later to lighter populations of Y-R1a or Y-R1b (not by force all of them)- or marry with a lot of light pigmented females previously linked to an other Y-HG and progressively take its light pigmentation - by the way I doubt proto-historic Y-I2a were mostly light pigmented for hair -


 

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