Genetic study Genomes from 82 Etruscans and Southern Italians.(800 BCE – 1,000 CE).

torzio · Aug 24, 2021

Salento said:
If you pay they’ll show you the SZ1 Haplogroups

you get 633 SNPs Largest Chain and I get 634.

SZ1 is so old that more or less we all get a chunk of it, Caio Giulio Cesare included (main ancient shared ancestry) I Think.

ok....but i am only 68% and you are 96%

my new #1 ........

[h=4]Copper Age Szigetszentmiklos Hungary 2350 BC I7043[/h]

99%

2 -[h=4]Illyrian / Dalmatian 1600 BC I4331[/h]98%

3 -
[h=4]Protovillanovia Martinsicuro 930 BC R1[/h]98%

of the new "samnites" /Etruscans ...............I only match etruscan sample 003 and 007

Salento · Aug 24, 2021

torzio said:
ok....but i am only 68% and you are 96%

my new #1 ........

Copper Age Szigetszentmiklos Hungary 2350 BC I7043

99%

2 -Illyrian / Dalmatian 1600 BC I4331

98%

3 -
Protovillanovia Martinsicuro 930 BC R1

98%

of the new "samnites" /Etruscans ...............I only match etruscan sample 003 and 007

Ven015 Ancient Venosa Samnite 400 BC
… top 5 World Cup

Taq003 Etruscan Tarquinii Italy 800 BC
100% closer than other matching users

Duarte · Aug 28, 2021

MTA’s Deep Dive

Although don’t be a sample of this thread, the sample displayed below is intetesting too.

Salento · Aug 29, 2021

Two new MTA deep dive:

VEN016 - Ancient Venosa Samnite 400 BC
ETR014 - Etruria Iron-Age Italy 1000 BC

I’ll probably lose my # 1 status as users re-upload their Kits, … maybe

Stuvanè · Aug 29, 2021

These are my top 4 current MTA deep dives (further down the ranking among these distant "relatives" are now also TAQ003, TAQ011, POP001, VEN013, VEN016, ETR013)

Salento · Aug 29, 2021

SZ1 (combined-Kit) Dodecad Globe 13 - Genotype ratio: 99.80%

… vs the 82:

Code:

SZ1_Dod_Globe13,3.39,0.78,0.77,0.25,10.28,2.36,34.17,0.90,0.48,14.71,30.84,0.39,0.69

SZ1 raw-data:
https://www.mediafire.com/file/4qmtecuis4yy3so/sz1.zip/file

torzio · Aug 29, 2021

Salento said:
SZ1 (combined-Kit) Dodecad Globe 13 - Genotype ratio: 99.80%

… vs the 82:

Code:

SZ1_Dod_Globe13,3.39,0.78,0.77,0.25,10.28,2.36,34.17,0.90,0.48,14.71,30.84,0.39,0.69

SZ1 raw-data:
https://www.mediafire.com/file/4qmtecuis4yy3so/sz1.zip/file

Have you done the Heneti sample BRC003 .?................Heneti = Veneti ( wrongly labeled ) but the period is the indigenous Euganei people from the Eugaean colli ( hills )

Salento · Aug 29, 2021

torzio said:
Have you done the Heneti sample BRC003 .?................Heneti = Veneti ( wrongly labeled ) but the period is the indigenous Euganei people from the Eugaean colli ( hills )

GedM…
BRC003 # QZ8281511

… vs S :

... can't remember, ... just in case ... Credit to Jovialis

Dodecad Globe 13:

Code:

BRC003_Dod_Globe13,0.00,0.00,1.53,0.00,7.15,2.00,46.64,0.00,0.00,6.54,36.15,0.00,0.00

Dodecad K12b:

Code:

BRC003_Dodecad_K12b,1.48,0.00,2.35,1.33,46.70,24.27,0.00,0.00,5.74,0.00,17.40,0.74

… Bonus :grin: … new GedM… SZ1

… vs S : 7.4 Generations:

torzio · Aug 29, 2021

Salento said:
GedM…
BRC003 # QZ8281511

… vs S :

... can't remember, ... just in case ... Credit to Jovialis

Dodecad Globe 13:

Code:

BRC003_Dod_Globe13,0.00,0.00,1.53,0.00,7.15,2.00,46.64,0.00,0.00,6.54,36.15,0.00,0.00

Dodecad K12b:

Code:

BRC003_Dodecad_K12b,1.48,0.00,2.35,1.33,46.70,24.27,0.00,0.00,5.74,0.00,17.40,0.74

… Bonus :grin: … new GedM… SZ1

… vs S : 7.4 Generations:

thanks

Kit QZ8281511

Admix Results (sorted):

Population

[TD="align: center"] # [/TD]

[TD="align: right"] Percent [/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]1[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]Neolithic[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]48.47[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]2[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]WHG[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]24.12[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]EHG[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]16.87[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]4[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]Basal[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]6.64[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]5[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]African[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]1.79[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]6[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]Oceanic[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]1.08[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]7[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]SEA[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]0.55[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]8[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]Iran-Mesolithic[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]0.48[/TD]

Single Population Sharing:

Population (source)

[TD="align: center"] # [/TD]

[TD="align: right"] Distance [/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]1[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Maros_BA[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]6.8[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]2[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Vatya_MBA[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]7.16[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Germany_BA[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]7.9[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]4[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Germany_Bronze_Age[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]7.9[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]5[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Hungary_MBA[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]13.39[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]6[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Hungary_BA[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]16.81[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]7[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]British_Celtic[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]21.9[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]8[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Swedish_LN[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]22.16[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]9[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]British_IronAge[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]23.26[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]10[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Bell_Beaker_Germany[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]23.54[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]11[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Alberstedt_LN[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]23.94[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]12[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Halberstadt_LBA[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]25.21[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]13[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Nordic_BA[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]26.34[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]14[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Bell_Beaker_Czech[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]26.92[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]15[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Anatolia_Chalcolithic[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]26.97[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]16[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]British_AngloSaxon[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]27.27[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]17[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Irish_LN[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]27.29[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]18[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Nordic_MN_B[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]27.85[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]19[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Nordic_LN[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]29.37[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]20[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Hungary_IronAge[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]29.42[/TD]

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:


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[TD="width: 20, align: center"] # [/TD]
[TD="width: 15"] [/TD]
[TD="colspan: 3"] Primary Population (source) [/TD]
[TD="colspan: 3"] Secondary Population (source) [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] Distance [/TD]

[TD="width: 20, align: center"]1[/TD]
[TD="width: 15"] [/TD]
[TD="width: 30, align: right"]50.6%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"] Corded_Ware_Proto_Unetice_Poland[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: right"]49.4%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"] GermanStuttgart_LBK[/TD]

[TD="width: 50, align: right"]1.93[/TD]

[TD="width: 20, align: center"]2[/TD]
[TD="width: 15"] [/TD]
[TD="width: 30, align: right"]54.4%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"] Nordic_MN_B[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: right"]45.6%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"] GermanStuttgart_LBK[/TD]

[TD="width: 50, align: right"]2.14[/TD]

[TD="width: 20, align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD="width: 15"] [/TD]
[TD="width: 30, align: right"]59.2%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"] GermanStuttgart_LBK[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: right"]40.8%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"] Baltic_LBA[/TD]

[TD="width: 50, align: right"]2.22[/TD]

[TD="width: 20, align: center"]4[/TD]
[TD="width: 15"] [/TD]
[TD="width: 30, align: right"]51.9%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"] GermanStuttgart_LBK[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: right"]48.1%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"] Corded_Ware_Estonia[/TD]

[TD="width: 50, align: right"]2.27[/TD]

[TD="width: 20, align: center"]5[/TD]
[TD="width: 15"] [/TD]
[TD="width: 30, align: right"]53.1%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"] Nordic_LN[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: right"]46.9%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"] GermanStuttgart_LBK[/TD]

[TD="width: 50, align: right"]2.52[/TD]

[TD="width: 20, align: center"]6[/TD]
[TD="width: 15"] [/TD]
[TD="width: 30, align: right"]52.1%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"] Unetice_EBA[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: right"]47.9%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"] GermanStuttgart_LBK[/TD]

[TD="width: 50, align: right"]2.77[/TD]

[TD="width: 20, align: center"]7[/TD]
[TD="width: 15"] [/TD]
[TD="width: 30, align: right"]55.3%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"] Bell_Beaker_Czech[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: right"]44.7%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"] GermanStuttgart_LBK[/TD]

[TD="width: 50, align: right"]2.84[/TD]

[TD="width: 20, align: center"]8[/TD]
[TD="width: 15"] [/TD]
[TD="width: 30, align: right"]60.4%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"] British_Celtic[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: right"]39.6%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"] GermanStuttgart_LBK[/TD]

[TD="width: 50, align: right"]2.91[/TD]

[TD="width: 20, align: center"]9[/TD]
[TD="width: 15"] [/TD]
[TD="width: 30, align: right"]55.3%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"] GermanStuttgart_LBK[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: right"]44.7%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"] Nordic_BA[/TD]

[TD="width: 50, align: right"]2.91[/TD]

[TD="width: 20, align: center"]10[/TD]
[TD="width: 15"] [/TD]
[TD="width: 30, align: right"]55%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"] British_AngloSaxon[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: right"]45%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"] GermanStuttgart_LBK[/TD]

[TD="width: 50, align: right"]2.94[/TD]

[TD="width: 20, align: center"]11[/TD]
[TD="width: 15"] [/TD]
[TD="width: 30, align: right"]51.4%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"] Hungary_CA[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: right"]48.6%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"] Irish_BA[/TD]

[TD="width: 50, align: right"]2.96[/TD]

[TD="width: 20, align: center"]12[/TD]
[TD="width: 15"] [/TD]
[TD="width: 30, align: right"]88.8%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"] Maros_BA[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: right"]11.2%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"] Levant_N[/TD]

[TD="width: 50, align: right"]2.97[/TD]

[TD="width: 20, align: center"]13[/TD]
[TD="width: 15"] [/TD]
[TD="width: 30, align: right"]51.8%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"] Nordic_IA[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: right"]48.2%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"] GermanStuttgart_LBK[/TD]

[TD="width: 50, align: right"]2.98[/TD]

[TD="width: 20, align: center"]14[/TD]
[TD="width: 15"] [/TD]
[TD="width: 30, align: right"]60.7%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"] Hungary_CA[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: right"]39.3%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"] Corded_Ware_Germany[/TD]

[TD="width: 50, align: right"]2.99[/TD]

[TD="width: 20, align: center"]15[/TD]
[TD="width: 15"] [/TD]
[TD="width: 30, align: right"]55.5%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"] GermanStuttgart_LBK[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: right"]44.5%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"] Poltavka_MBA_outlier[/TD]

[TD="width: 50, align: right"]3.07[/TD]

[TD="width: 20, align: center"]16[/TD]
[TD="width: 15"] [/TD]
[TD="width: 30, align: right"]51.8%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"] Nordic_LBA[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: right"]48.2%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"] GermanStuttgart_LBK[/TD]

[TD="width: 50, align: right"]3.24[/TD]

[TD="width: 20, align: center"]17[/TD]
[TD="width: 15"] [/TD]
[TD="width: 30, align: right"]50.6%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"] Hungary_CA[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: right"]49.4%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"] Nordic_BattleAxe[/TD]

[TD="width: 50, align: right"]3.38[/TD]

[TD="width: 20, align: center"]18[/TD]
[TD="width: 15"] [/TD]
[TD="width: 30, align: right"]55.1%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"] GermanStuttgart_LBK[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: right"]44.9%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"] Sintashta_MBA[/TD]

[TD="width: 50, align: right"]3.41[/TD]

[TD="width: 20, align: center"]19[/TD]
[TD="width: 15"] [/TD]
[TD="width: 30, align: right"]58.6%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"] Hungary_CA[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: right"]41.4%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"] Srubnaya_LBA[/TD]

[TD="width: 50, align: right"]3.49[/TD]

[TD="width: 20, align: center"]20[/TD]
[TD="width: 15"] [/TD]
[TD="width: 30, align: right"]59.7%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"] Hungary_CA[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: right"]40.3%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"] Corded_Ware_Germany[/TD]

[TD="width: 50, align: right"]3.52[/TD]

Maciamo · Sep 1, 2021

VET005 is my best match of any ancient sample so far on Dodecad K12b, but oddly it doesn't show up at all in MyTrueAncestry.

VET stands for 'Etruscans from Vetluna'. Duarte posted his MTA results and VET003 dates from 600 BCE. Does anyone have the date for VET005?

Pax Augusta · Sep 1, 2021

Maciamo said:
VET005 is my best match of any ancient sample so far on Dodecad K12b, but oddly it doesn't show up at all in MyTrueAncestry.

VET stands for 'Etruscans from Vetluna'. Duarte posted his MTA results and VET003 dates from 600 BCE. Does anyone have the date for VET005?

At this time, there is still no information on what the labels mean or the dates of the samples. Most likely MTA once again simply made them up, copying what is written on the forums about the various labels. So some of the information in MTA about the samples may later turn out to be true and some may turn out to be false.

Salento · Sep 2, 2021

Maciamo said:
VET005 is my best match of any ancient sample so far on Dodecad K12b, but oddly it doesn't show up at all in MyTrueAncestry.

VET stands for 'Etruscans from Vetluna'. Duarte posted his MTA results and VET003 dates from 600 BCE. Does anyone have the date for VET005?

fwiw … on MTA: VET005 - 600 BC - Etruscan Vatluna Twelve Cities

VET005 Closest Ancient: Vascones - Saxons - Belgae - Celts - Picts

VET005 Modern:

D.L.M · Sep 5, 2021

Jovialis said:
The purpose of Anthrogenica is to make all of classical antiquity, particularly Ancient Greeks, associated with Jews, I guess.

Funny thing is that Jews of this time period would not even plot near Ashkenazi, because they didn't exist yet. They would plot close to the Near East.

- Southern Italians are largely Greek transplants.
- Imperial Romans were Magna Greacians with extra Middle Eastern ancestry.
- Ashkenazi Jews have significant ancient Greek ancestry.
- Laz people have absorved some non-negligible Greek ancestry too.
Greek this, Greek that. :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:

torzio · Sep 5, 2021

ihype02 said:
- Southern Italians are largely Greek transplants.
- Imperial Romans were Magna Greacians with extra Middle Eastern ancestry.
- Ashkenazi Jews have significant ancient Greek ancestry.
- Laz people have absorved some non-negligible Greek ancestry too.
Greek this, Greek that. :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:

where did you get your information from ..............was it below link?

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/ajpa.23937

D.L.M · Sep 6, 2021

torzio said:
where did you get your information from ..............was it below link?

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/ajpa.23937

I was being sarcastic.

Pax Augusta · Sep 24, 2021

Pax Augusta said:
Maciamo, among the many suppositions read in the forums, yours remain according to me the closest to the truth.

At least one of these should be from southern Italy and should have at least a significant number of individuals, otherwise I don't see the point of using them.
Obviously, the fact that samples have the same label does not mean that they have the same date or belong to the same era or the same ethnicity. Just as it should be reiterated that the starting samples will have been many more than these, these 82 will be the ones that could have been decently analyzed, and that there is clearly a causal factor as well. Even when they are really samples of Etruscan individuals they can belong to different periods (orientalizing, archaic, Hellenistic...). It seems clear to me that the abstract claims that there are no samples of Etruscan individuals of Villanovan age, that would have been the most useful instead.

CSN, MAG, MAS, POP, VOL coud be from central (VOL) and southern Tuscany (CSN, MAG, MAS, POP). TAQ is most likely Tarquinia from northern Lazio. I think CSN can't be Cesena, Cesena is not considered part of Etruria and of course neither southern Italy. The territories of the Etruscans in northern Italy are conventionally called Etruria Padana but there is no mention in the abstract of the paper of samples from Etruria Padana. CSN is most likely a microtoponym in southern Tuscany composed of multiple words.

CAM could be indeed Campiglia from Tuscany, good guess Maciamo, or a generic Campania region. But the former makes more sense than the latter. Instead CAM doesn't seem to match for example with places like Capua in Campania.

ETR is Etruria in Roman Imperial period (the so called Regio VII Etruria that was merged with Regio VI Umbria around 300 AD).

PRZ dunno. It could be one of the many microtoponyms scattered throughout Italy that begin with Poggio and are composed of multiple words.

UDC_P dunno. Even this sounds like a toponym composed of multiple words.

VEN dunno. It could Venturina but both for their results and for other reasons (the abstract) it is unlikely that also VEN is from Etruria.

VET could be Vetulonia. Or see below.

VEU in the case VET stands for something else, VEU could be Vetulonia as well. VEU doesn't seem to match Veio or Vulci.

VOL, CAM, UDC, CSN, MAG, MAS, ETR, PRZ, VET, VEU, POP are all from Tuscany.

TAQ = Tarquinia from Lazio.

VEN is not from Etruria, likely from Campania.

Outliers seem few. The Etruscans did not change genetically for almost 1000 years of their history, despite the low presence of foreigners. The modern Tuscans will have undergone some influences from the imperial era, but not from a single source, as will have happened to all Italians, but the Etruscans in a world-weighted PCA are still there, not so far away, certainly close to northern Italians and Tuscans rather than to other ethnicities. Compared to the Etruscans, considering the bulk of the clusters, the modern Tuscans are shifted primarily towards the Balkans, and only secondarily towards the Near East.

For Tuscans they used TSI, which I remind again is based on at least 3 out of 4 grandparents born in Tuscany. Certainly many individuals will be 100% Tuscan, but not all likely are, and the gene flow over the last 100 years in Italy is mainly from south to north.

Archetype0ne · Sep 24, 2021

Pax Augusta said:
VOL, CAM, UDC, CSN, MAG, MAS, ETR, PRZ, VET, VEU, POP are all from Tuscany.

TAQ = Tarquinia from Lazio.

VEN is not from Etruria, likely from Campania.

Outliers seem few. The Etruscans did not change genetically for almost 1000 years of their history, despite the low presence of foreigners. The modern Tuscans will have undergone some influences from the imperial era, but not from a single source, as will have happened to all Italians, but the Etruscans in a world-weighted PCA are still there, not so far away, certainly close to northern Italians and Tuscans rather than to other ethnicities. Compared to the Etruscans, considering the bulk of the clusters, the modern Tuscans are shifted primarily towards the Balkans, and only secondarily towards the Near East.

For Tuscans they used TSI, which I remind again is based on 3 out of 4 grandparents born in Tuscany. Certainly many individuals will be 100% Tuscan, but not all are, and the gene flow over the last 100 years in Italy is mainly from south to north.

Is the PCA official? Is the paper out?

Pax Augusta · Sep 24, 2021

Archetype0ne said:
Is the PCA official? Is the paper out?

PCA is from a conference, so yes official. The paper not out yet.

Vallicanus · Sep 24, 2021

Most Etruscans seem to have a pull towards Sardinia and Southwest Europe.

Pax Augusta · Sep 24, 2021

Vallicanus said:
Most Etruscans seem to have a pull towards Sardinia and Southwest Europe.

Higher percentages of WHG and EEF, confirming that the Eastern thesis is not true.

Genetic study Genomes from 82 Etruscans and Southern Italians.(800 BCE – 1,000 CE).

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