Genetic study Genomes from 82 Etruscans and Southern Italians.(800 BCE – 1,000 CE).

thank you all :)

@Archetype0ne (the J L283 posit.)

Ven006 and Ven013 are Abruzzo ... Puglia ... Sicily shifted.

Code: 
CSN004_Dod_K12b,1.49,0.00,2.17,0.71,51.75,19.41,0.13,0.00,5.20,0.00,18.21,0.93
VEN006_Dod_K12b,8.51,0.54,5.29,0.22,27.14,16.32,0.00,0.00,9.76,1.99,30.08,0.16
VEN013_Dod_K12b,7.70,0.00,5.12,0.00,28.43,14.81,0.00,0.00,10.94,1.22,30.32,1.45

Code: 
CSN004_Dod_Globe13,0.00,0.12,1.47,0.06,7.23,0.96,52.03,0.31,0.25,6.32,31.25,0.00,0.00
VEN006_Dod_Globe13,0.00,1.89,1.00,0.50,16.52,1.70,36.12,0.00,0.00,22.96,19.31,0.00,0.00
VEN013_Dod_Globe13,0.25,0.00,1.21,0.45,15.79,1.19,36.86,0.00,0.16,22.65,20.35,0.00,1.09

K12b for post # 172
Code: 
CSN001_Dod_K12b,0.74,0.00,1.60,0.73,46.50,23.83,0.00,0.00,7.19,0.00,19.25,0.16
TAQ001_Dod_K12b,2.36,0.00,4.12,0.57,47.15,23.95,0.00,0.00,4.60,0.00,17.25,0.00
VOL001_Dod_K12b,0.94,0.00,1.77,0.00,44.50,24.66,0.61,0.03,5.61,0.00,21.40,0.48
 
Salento said:
thank you all :)

@Archetype0ne (the J L283 posit.)

Ven006 and Ven013 are Abruzzo ... Puglia ... Sicily shifted.

Code: 
CSN004_Dod_K12b,1.49,0.00,2.17,0.71,51.75,19.41,0.13,0.00,5.20,0.00,18.21,0.93
VEN006_Dod_K12b,8.51,0.54,5.29,0.22,27.14,16.32,0.00,0.00,9.76,1.99,30.08,0.16
VEN013_Dod_K12b,7.70,0.00,5.12,0.00,28.43,14.81,0.00,0.00,10.94,1.22,30.32,1.45

Code: 
CSN004_Dod_Globe13,0.00,0.12,1.47,0.06,7.23,0.96,52.03,0.31,0.25,6.32,31.25,0.00,0.00
VEN006_Dod_Globe13,0.00,1.89,1.00,0.50,16.52,1.70,36.12,0.00,0.00,22.96,19.31,0.00,0.00
VEN013_Dod_Globe13,0.25,0.00,1.21,0.45,15.79,1.19,36.86,0.00,0.16,22.65,20.35,0.00,1.09

K12b for post # 172
Code: 
CSN001_Dod_K12b,0.74,0.00,1.60,0.73,46.50,23.83,0.00,0.00,7.19,0.00,19.25,0.16
TAQ001_Dod_K12b,2.36,0.00,4.12,0.57,47.15,23.95,0.00,0.00,4.60,0.00,17.25,0.00
VOL001_Dod_K12b,0.94,0.00,1.77,0.00,44.50,24.66,0.61,0.03,5.61,0.00,21.40,0.48
Click to expand...
You're the MVP man. They should create that award just for you.

Thanks.
 
Salento: Well, very, very very well done. And some interesting results for Puglia and Sicilia.

Distance to:VEN013_Dod_K12b
3.72090043Italian_Abruzzo
3.98852103Italian_Sicily
5.30699538Italian_Apulia
5.34285504Italian_Campania
6.74819976Greek_Lemnos
7.05718074Italian_Lazio
7.14297557Italian_Calabria
7.14899182Italian_Marche
7.30054108Ashkenazi_Jews
7.41809949Moldovan_Jewish


Distance to:VEN006_Dod_K12b
4.45478395Italian_Abruzzo
4.99337561Italian_Apulia
5.44355582Italian_Sicily
6.07005766Greek_Lemnos
6.85124076Italian_Campania
6.96973457Italian_Lazio
7.20751691Greek_Central
7.57249259Italian_Marche
7.66589199Greek_Athens
7.82193710Greek_Foca


Distance to:CSN004_Dod_K12b
10.42013436Spanish_Aragon
10.70810441Spanish_Andalusia
10.73989292Spanish_Valencia
10.76939181Spanish_Asturias
11.05432042Spanish_La_Rioja
11.15720843Spanish_Castilla-Leon
11.52256916Spanish_Cantabria
11.56793845Spanish_Catalonia
12.34205818Spanish_Baleares
12.65396776Spanish_Galicia


My Dodecad 12B coordinates vs. Iron Age/Republican Romans from Antonio et al 2019 and new Estruscan Samples.

Distance to:PalermoTrapani_Combined
4.04278369VEN013_Dod_K12b
4.25480904R437_Iron_Age_Palestrina_Selicata
6.18618622VEN006_Dod_K12b
13.22413702R850_Iron_Age_Ardea
16.50331482R475_Iron_Age_Civitavecchia
17.35859441R1_Iron_Age_Protovillanovan_Martinsicuro
20.29927585VET001_Dod_K12b
20.69087963R474_Iron_Age_Civitavecchia
22.97496464VET003_4_Dod_K12b
23.16541819R1015_Iron_Age_Veio_Grotta_Gramiccia
23.21786812R1016_Iron_Age_Castel_di_Decima
23.78848461R473_Iron_Age_Civitavecchia
25.40326357R1021_Iron_Age_Boville_Ernica
27.38261492CSN004_Dod_K12b
27.53483793R851_Iron_Age_Ardea
30.23463908R435_Iron_Age_Palestrina_Colombella

 
Palermo Trapani said:
Salento: Well, very, very very well done. And some interesting results for Puglia and Sicilia.

Distance to:VEN013_Dod_K12b
3.72090043Italian_Abruzzo
3.98852103Italian_Sicily
5.30699538Italian_Apulia
5.34285504Italian_Campania
6.74819976Greek_Lemnos
7.05718074Italian_Lazio
7.14297557Italian_Calabria
7.14899182Italian_Marche
7.30054108Ashkenazi_Jews
7.41809949Moldovan_Jewish


Distance to:VEN006_Dod_K12b
4.45478395Italian_Abruzzo
4.99337561Italian_Apulia
5.44355582Italian_Sicily
6.07005766Greek_Lemnos
6.85124076Italian_Campania
6.96973457Italian_Lazio
7.20751691Greek_Central
7.57249259Italian_Marche
7.66589199Greek_Athens
7.82193710Greek_Foca


Distance to:CSN004_Dod_K12b
10.42013436Spanish_Aragon
10.70810441Spanish_Andalusia
10.73989292Spanish_Valencia
10.76939181Spanish_Asturias
11.05432042Spanish_La_Rioja
11.15720843Spanish_Castilla-Leon
11.52256916Spanish_Cantabria
11.56793845Spanish_Catalonia
12.34205818Spanish_Baleares
12.65396776Spanish_Galicia


My Dodecad 12B coordinates vs. Iron Age/Republican Romans from Antonio et al 2019 and new Estruscan Samples.

Distance to:PalermoTrapani_Combined
4.04278369VEN013_Dod_K12b
4.25480904R437_Iron_Age_Palestrina_Selicata
6.18618622VEN006_Dod_K12b
13.22413702R850_Iron_Age_Ardea
16.50331482R475_Iron_Age_Civitavecchia
17.35859441R1_Iron_Age_Protovillanovan_Martinsicuro
20.29927585VET001_Dod_K12b
20.69087963R474_Iron_Age_Civitavecchia
22.97496464VET003_4_Dod_K12b
23.16541819R1015_Iron_Age_Veio_Grotta_Gramiccia
23.21786812R1016_Iron_Age_Castel_di_Decima
23.78848461R473_Iron_Age_Civitavecchia
25.40326357R1021_Iron_Age_Boville_Ernica
27.38261492CSN004_Dod_K12b
27.53483793R851_Iron_Age_Ardea
30.23463908R435_Iron_Age_Palestrina_Colombella

Click to expand...
Wowee, those ven samples give such close scores to modern populations. Puglian continuity confirmed through the Etruscans L283. Take note Puglian L283, thats how its done. lol

Thatnks for running those Palermo, I could not since I am on the phone.

You seem to have gotten a new closest distance ancient, gratz.

Now I am dying of curiosity to compare myself to these samples. How I cant wait for Monday.

Could someone be so kind to use some calc with Albanian as a reference on those L283s, seeing Greeks Swiss Italians, Moldovans etc gives me a hunch.
 
Archetype0ne: Thanks my friend, I appreciate it. I forgot that Brick in an earlier post had provided the coordinates for ETR001 who is also very Southern Italian shifted, Salento is close to this sample as well. So I updated my Distances and included it with the new Max Plank Samples and the Republican/Iron Age Roman Samples from Antonio et al 2019. While I like to think I am above behaving child like, I am very tempted to go to the other sites where the "usual suspects" reside with the sound of Queen's "Another one bites the dust", "Another one bites the dust", but I will refrain from doing so. Cheers, make sure you post your Dodecade 12B distances as well. Given the now well documented Southern European Mediterranean continuum that is now well established in the Literature, you are likely to have some close distances as well.

Distance to:PalermoTrapani_Combined
4.04278369VEN013_Dod_K12b
4.25480904R437_Iron_Age_Palestrina_Selicata
4.58093877ETR001
6.18618622VEN006_Dod_K12b
13.22413702R850_Iron_Age_Ardea
16.50331482R475_Iron_Age_Civitavecchia
17.35859441R1_Iron_Age_Protovillanovan_Martinsicuro
20.29927585VET001_Dod_K12b
20.69087963R474_Iron_Age_Civitavecchia
22.97496464VET003_4_Dod_K12b
23.16541819R1015_Iron_Age_Veio_Grotta_Gramiccia
23.21786812R1016_Iron_Age_Castel_di_Decima
23.78848461R473_Iron_Age_Civitavecchia
25.40326357R1021_Iron_Age_Boville_Ernica
27.38261492CSN004_Dod_K12b
27.53483793R851_Iron_Age_Ardea
30.23463908R435_Iron_Age_Palestrina_Colombella

 
Hawk said:
Why a disaster?
E-V13 in Italy is the lowest in and around Tuscany, so people said before that it might be low to inexistent.
As for those samples, i doubt they were even J1. Low coverage. Let's wait for the paper. Jumping from E-M2 to J1 is wild to me. :wink:
Click to expand...

Its not just e-L618 branch like e-v13
Today in modern tuscany some regions in south and east of it are 3-4% e-m123
Grossoto-sienna and arezzo specifically
So i did expected an e-m123 to pop up in the later samples
Given the timeline of the samples are till 1000Ad...:unsure:
 
We have some C6 Mediterraneans here! I'm close to them too. Fantastic work, once again Salento:

Distance to:Jovialis
3.24240651VEN013
4.75213636VEN006
21.70843845VOL001
22.09237199CSN001
23.43200376TAQ001
24.79706031CSN004



eFkYag8.png
 
Archetype0ne said:
Is this VEN? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venosa
Click to expand...

As I know there were never there Etruscans.


kingjohn said:
Its not just e-L618 branch like e-v13
Today in modern tuscany some regions in south and east of it are 3-4% e-m123
Grossoto-sienna and arezzo specifically
So i did expected an e-m123 to pop up in the later samples
Given the timeline of the samples are till 1000Ad...:unsure:
Click to expand...


My uneducated guess, given that it has been found in some specific and isolated locations it is most likely due to a recent founder effect and in antiquity it was likely in even smaller percentages to become difficult to find.
 
Jovialis said:
@Pax Augusta,

What do you think VEN is short for?
Click to expand...

I can't think of anything that connects to the Etruscans. The problem is that they use modern names for the finds that could also be fractions, hamlets or small villages. Let me explain, they could use the current administrative name under which the necropolis area is registered but that has no relation to the name of the ancient settlement. However it is sure that some sample is from the south Italy and we can't assume they are all Etruscans.
 
Pax Augusta said:
Great job, Salento.




Indeed.





Totally agree but not all will be Tuscans of various eras, there will be also Latials of various eras and southern Italians (Campanians?) of various eras.
Click to expand...

Good catch; that was careless of me. That's why the precise location and whatever context is available will be so important. I certainly hope we'll see the kind of isotopic analysis the Geary team supplied in the Langobard paper, but I'm beginning to doubt it.
 
Pax Augusta said:
As I know there were never there Etruscans.
My uneducated guess, given that it has been found in some specific and isolated locations it is most likely due to a recent founder effect and in antiquity it was likely in even smaller percentages to become difficult to find.
Click to expand...

Thanks(y)
Sounds logic explanation
 
Jovialis: The VEN Y DNA Haplogroups, not that it is the tell tale of everything, seem to be some R1, but also G2, and J2 heavy. So could that provide a hint? Maybe people there prior to the Estruscan and Roman period?
 
Palermo Trapani said:
Archetype0ne: Thanks my friend, I appreciate it. I forgot that Brick in an earlier post had provided the coordinates for ETR001 who is also very Southern Italian shifted, Salento is close to this sample as well. So I updated my Distances and included it with the new Max Plank Samples and the Republican/Iron Age Roman Samples from Antonio et al 2019. While I like to think I am above behaving child like, I am very tempted to go to the other sites where the "usual suspects" reside with the sound of Queen's "Another one bites the dust", "Another one bites the dust", but I will refrain from doing so. Cheers, make sure you post your Dodecade 12B distances as well. Given the now well documented Southern European Mediterranean continuum that is now well established in the Literature, you are likely to have some close distances as well.

Distance to:PalermoTrapani_Combined
4.04278369VEN013_Dod_K12b
4.25480904R437_Iron_Age_Palestrina_Selicata
4.58093877ETR001
6.18618622VEN006_Dod_K12b
13.22413702R850_Iron_Age_Ardea
16.50331482R475_Iron_Age_Civitavecchia
17.35859441R1_Iron_Age_Protovillanovan_Martinsicuro
20.29927585VET001_Dod_K12b
20.69087963R474_Iron_Age_Civitavecchia
22.97496464VET003_4_Dod_K12b
23.16541819R1015_Iron_Age_Veio_Grotta_Gramiccia
23.21786812R1016_Iron_Age_Castel_di_Decima
23.78848461R473_Iron_Age_Civitavecchia
25.40326357R1021_Iron_Age_Boville_Ernica
27.38261492CSN004_Dod_K12b
27.53483793R851_Iron_Age_Ardea
30.23463908R435_Iron_Age_Palestrina_Colombella
Click to expand...

Palermo, could you post your source file for this run? I haven't been keeping up with filing the relevant samples. Plus, the first three which Salento provided are giving me a problem, giving me an error for number of columns post. I would appreciate it.

By the way, "Another One Bites The Dust" often comes to mind for me, too, when someone obnoxious falls from grace. :) In fact, I more than once used the reference here, although it probably bordered on being out of order. I've also been thinking a lot this summer of "Un Estate Italiana". :)
 
VEN could mean Venosa, a city in Basilicum, wasn't that an Ancient Greek colonizer city? E-L618 find there might make sense, down-clade might be E-V13 eventually.
 
Angela:

I went to vahaudo genetics and copied the coordinates that Salento put together into the Dodecad 12B spreadsheet (Deleted all other coordinates) for the new Max Plank samples and cut and paste the Iron/Age Republican samples from Antonio et al 2019 from the Dodecad 12B ancient into the Source Tab with the Max Plank ones. Here is the tab with those coordinates in it. You can paste your personal ones in the target and run them. If the link does not work, you can cut and paste perhaps from my post (copied what I ran as source and pasted them)?. First link has the ancient Dodecad coordinates. The 2nd one is the updated modern.

http://vahaduo.genetics.ovh/dodecad-k12b-ANCIENT-vahaduo.htm


http://vahaduo.genetics.ovh/dodecad-k12b-vahaduo.htm

VET001_Dod_K12b,1.52,0.00,2.24,1.15,42.15,23.87,0.00,1.18,6.30,0.00,21.57,0.00
VET003_4_Dod_K12b,1.33,0.00,2.66,0.00,47.08,21.20,0.25,0.26,7.04,0.15,20.03,0.00
R1_Iron_Age_Protovillanovan_Martinsicuro,5.02,1.78,1.33,0,35.08,26.46,0,0,5.43,0,24.5,0.4
R1015_Iron_Age_Veio_Grotta_Gramiccia,1.56,0.19,2.85,0.26,47.15,21.66,0,0,5.46,0,20.85,0
R1016_Iron_Age_Castel_di_Decima,3.86,0.98,1.53,0.19,47.23,20.37,1.43,0,3.31,0,21.1,0
R1021_Iron_Age_Boville_Ernica,2.11,0,1.96,0.6,47.7,24.04,0,0,1.33,0,22.26,0
R435_Iron_Age_Palestrina_Colombella,4.84,0.64,0.65,0,47.12,28.54,0.15,0,4.13,0,13.4,0.53
R437_Iron_Age_Palestrina_Selicata,6.45,0,3.03,0,33.19,11.94,0,0,11.63,0,33.74,0.02
R473_Iron_Age_Civitavecchia,1.01,0,0.68,0.15,47.26,22.79,0,0.21,7.39,0,20.17,0.34
R474_Iron_Age_Civitavecchia,7.14,0.17,2.38,0,39.08,25.74,0,0,5.98,0,18.84,0.66
R475_Iron_Age_Civitavecchia,0,0,13.01,0,38.12,12.14,0.37,1.98,11.26,0,22.7,0.42
R850_Iron_Age_Ardea,7.3,0,4.52,1.08,21.26,10.54,0,0.43,14.77,0,40.1,0
R851_Iron_Age_Ardea,1.59,0,1.39,0,49.28,24.97,0,0.14,1.93,0,20.26,0.45
CSN004_Dod_K12b,1.49,0.00,2.17,0.71,51.75,19.41,0.13,0.00,5.20,0.00,18.21,0.93
VEN006_Dod_K12b,8.51,0.54,5.29,0.22,27.14,16.32,0.00,0.00,9.76,1.99,30.08,0.16
VEN013_Dod_K12b,7.70,0.00,5.12,0.00,28.43,14.81,0.00,0.00,10.94,1.22,30.32,1.45
ETR001,8.19,0,2.62,0.45,33.92,11.31,0,0,12.02,0,31.49,0


Cheers, PT
 
Last edited:
Angela: One suggestion, Salento ran coordinates for both Dodecad12B and Global 13. I think I without reading carefully posted the 12B into the Global 13 and got an error message, which I quickly realized. Maybe you inadvertently did that. Might be worth a look to see if that solves the issue.

PT
 
Jovialis: In regards to post #208, you are getting close distances on the same ones I am. You had a good distance with ETR001 as well, whose Coordinates you provided. Brick I provided the BAM files. Just to clear up my earlier post.
 
Angela said:
Good catch; that was careless of me. That's why the precise location and whatever context is available will be so important. I certainly hope we'll see the kind of isotopic analysis the Geary team supplied in the Langobard paper, but I'm beginning to doubt it.
Click to expand...

The situation that has arisen is paradoxical. We have the samples downloadable but we don't even have the preprint paper. Your doubts are my doubts, too. I haven't been able to find out who the archaeologists involved are, and that's not a good sign.
 
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