23andMe Got my first results today

[Angela]

Sile;428171]they refer to sicilians as southern italians and southern italians as sicilians

the non 23andme NON reference populations are noted differently as seen in the show details link...........23andme have no defining tuscan and north-italian, they rely on other customer bases and as of a few hours ago, the tuscan was 8 samples and north-italian 13 samples ................IF 23andme defined tuscan and north-italian seperatley from their italian component, they would have noted it on their show more details link

I have asked you repeatedly for a screen shot of the communication where a 23andme staffer made this statement. It is a very serious matter if you are quoting other people from other websites, or posting what you remember of what the staffer wrote or how you interpreted what the staffer wrote instead of specifically what 23andme communicated. Were I at 23andme and a customer was in any way misrepresenting company communications, I would terminate that person's access to 23andme. I address this point further with regard to your other recent post on this thread about 23andme's analysis with regard to Sicilians.

As for the remainder of this quote, I don't understand your point at all. Perhaps Maciamo will allow you to post your points in Italian as well as in English. Perhaps then we will understand each other better. All I can tell you is what I told you before. I linked to an official 23andme memorandum which explained that they used Hap Map, HGDP and the 1000 Genomes Data, which contains more than 100 Tuscan samples, in addition to their own database. If you claim that this has now changed, please provide me with the written documentation from 23andme so stating.

speculative is as it says.............basically, they do not seperate their Italian sample in detail, so that's the speculative.

I don't understand this statement, either. I suggest you read the White Paper to which I linked upthread to familiarize yourself with precision, recall, etc. in terms of the different settings. Other than that, as I've already said, my opinion, and that of many others who've been at this for quite a while, is that the speculative setting better comports with actual known ancestry within a genealogical time frame, which is probably back 500-1000 years. 23andme does not claim to provide deep ancestry, although I think you might be able to push it back even 1500 years. If you search on 23andme's website you will find hundreds of posts where this topic is discussed. If you don't choose to agree with this viewpoint, then don't.

you checked only in 23andme or are you throwing in other sites?

I don't throw anything in...ever...I only post facts and data which I can substantiate. If what I'm doing is wildly speculating, then I say so. If I'm expressing an opinion, then that's what I say I am doing. If I'm unsure, then I say so. If I'm only going on memory and haven't checked the relevant papers, I say so. That's my professional training and my personal preference.

The results I posted are all "speculative" (as in choose the speculative setting from the drop down menu) figures from 23andme people with whom I currently or have in the past "shared". Remember that not all 23andme users choose to identify themselves in terms of ancestry..ie. not everyone with 100% ancestry from Italy fills out the ancestry questionnaire. In fact, most people whom I know who are currently testing deliberately don't fill it out because they are the skeptical sort who want to make sure that 23andme is not just feeding them back information which they themselves provided. Sort of a blind tasting test, if you like.

Also, I shared with numerous people who asked me to delete them after we shared, because they know that once they share with someone, they share with everyone that person shares with, (sort of like the charts done by the Center For Disease Control to track communicable diseases, lol) and they prefer to keep their data private. Not everyone is thrilled that the likes of the people on The Apricity can get access to their data and then use or misuse and misinterpret it in furtherance of some bizarre agenda. (Although I don't frequent the site, enough brave people do who report to me on the shenanigans that go on there. And I mean brave...the few times, as a rookie, that I attempted it, swarms of viruses attacked my computer. If for no other reason, no thank you.)

In addition, as I pointed out above, it makes no difference really whether someone uses Speculative or Standard. I would be willing to bet that if an Italian were to add up the "Italian" and non-specific Southern European numbers from the Standard setting, the total would be very close indeed to the "Italian" on the Speculative setting.

If I use speculative I am 21% southern european and 23% north european.
If I use standard , I am 9% southern and 2% northern

1% balkan
0.4% ashkenazi
0.5% north african-middleEast
1.2% iberian

Basically the ONLY three areas I get are Italain, france and germany ( and you will know france and germany are noted as 1 group ( go figure that)

Well, caro amico, those numbers don't equal 100%, (correct me if I'm wrong, but 21 and 23 equal 44, and not even the smaller bits will get you to 100%) not even when I've had the drink that tonight I most definitely need. The Trentini must be unique genetically. I think the only solution is to petition Austria to take you all back. Let me know how that goes...

 

[Angela]

23andme

How to interpret Sicilians, since Sicilians are part of 23andme's "Italian" population, each score you see is how well the individual stacks up to the reference population average. I.e. 20% "MENA" means that individual is 20% more MENA than the "Italian" reference population's average.

Keep in mind that the "Italian" reference population consists of Sicilian-Americans as well as other Italians.
For separating Greeks:
1) If their Italian score is higher than their Balkan score, they are NOT from the mainland. The reverse can happen with an islander having higher Balkan than Italian, but never the other way around.
2) If their MENA exceeds 18%, they are at least partially Anatolian Greek.
3) Ionian islanders are indistinguishable from the mainland.

I don't know what MENA means

You are going to get yourself into serious trouble by misrepresenting 23andme in this way. I've been told that the above statement, which you had the audacity to put in bold, is a verbatim statement made by some character called Sikelliot on The Apricity.

Not cool, and not smart, neither of him nor of you should anyone choose to report to 23andme that statements are being attributed to them which they have not made, and that certain customers of 23andme are abusing the privacy of other 23andme users to promote some bizarre, idiotic agendas on a tracked racist site.

 

[Sile]

You are going to get yourself into serious trouble by misrepresenting 23andme in this way. I've been told that the above statement, which you had the audacity to put in bold, is a verbatim statement made by some character called Sikelliot on The Apricity.

Not cool, and not smart, neither of him nor of you should anyone choose to report to 23andme that statements are being attributed to them which they have not made, and that certain customers of 23andme are abusing the privacy of other 23andme users to promote some bizarre, idiotic agendas on a tracked racist site.

What is Apricity.......never heard of it

I got it from a member from 23andme .....one of those labelled special members ..........green or blue boxes ( whatever they are)

Anthrogenica and here is my only membership

Molgen , I think my membership is dead as I been in their once in the past year, but the site is pro-slavic .........so it does not interest me
and
worldoffamilies........which I have removed from my site is run by a pisan and he is the only person writing in that site.

 

[Sile]

I have asked you repeatedly for a screen shot of the communication where a 23andme staffer made this statement. It is a very serious matter if you are quoting other people from other websites, or posting what you remember of what the staffer wrote or how you interpreted what the staffer wrote instead of specifically what 23andme communicated. Were I at 23andme and a customer was in any way misrepresenting company communications, I would terminate that person's access to 23andme. I address this point further with regard to your other recent post on this thread about 23andme's analysis with regard to Sicilians.

As for the remainder of this quote, I don't understand your point at all. Perhaps Maciamo will allow you to post your points in Italian as well as in English. Perhaps then we will understand each other better. All I can tell you is what I told you before. I linked to an official 23andme memorandum which explained that they used Hap Map, HGDP and the 1000 Genomes Data, which contains more than 100 Tuscan samples, in addition to their own database. If you claim that this has now changed, please provide me with the written documentation from 23andme so stating.

this is what I am talking about

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

why don't they , 23andme , then not isolate tuscan and north-Italian instead of relying on only 21 results from other sites ?

If they knew tuscan and NI in their data they would isolate their results and not bracket them all in one group

 

[Sile]

I don't understand this statement, either. I suggest you read the White Paper to which I linked upthread to familiarize yourself with precision, recall, etc. in terms of the different settings. Other than that, as I've already said, my opinion, and that of many others who've been at this for quite a while, is that the speculative setting better comports with actual known ancestry within a genealogical time frame, which is probably back 500-1000 years. 23andme does not claim to provide deep ancestry, although I think you might be able to push it back even 1500 years. If you search on 23andme's website you will find hundreds of posts where this topic is discussed. If you don't choose to agree with this viewpoint, then don't.

your fabricating what 23andme say.........they said it only up to 500 years old ....................if you know more ...link it

Ancestry Composition tells you what percent of your DNA comes from each of 31 populations worldwide. The analysis includes DNA you received from all of your ancestors, on both sides of your family. The results reflect where your ancestors lived 500 years ago, before ocean-crossing ships and airplanes came on the scene.

 

[Sile]

I don't throw anything in...ever...I only post facts and data which I can substantiate. If what I'm doing is wildly speculating, then I say so. If I'm expressing an opinion, then that's what I say I am doing. If I'm unsure, then I say so. If I'm only going on memory and haven't checked the relevant papers, I say so. That's my professional training and my personal preference.

The results I posted are all "speculative" (as in choose the speculative setting from the drop down menu) figures from 23andme people with whom I currently or have in the past "shared". Remember that not all 23andme users choose to identify themselves in terms of ancestry..ie. not everyone with 100% ancestry from Italy fills out the ancestry questionnaire. In fact, most people whom I know who are currently testing deliberately don't fill it out because they are the skeptical sort who want to make sure that 23andme is not just feeding them back information which they themselves provided. Sort of a blind tasting test, if you like.

Also, I shared with numerous people who asked me to delete them after we shared, because they know that once they share with someone, they share with everyone that person shares with, (sort of like the charts done by the Center For Disease Control to track communicable diseases, lol) and they prefer to keep their data private. Not everyone is thrilled that the likes of the people on The Apricity can get access to their data and then use or misuse and misinterpret it in furtherance of some bizarre agenda. (Although I don't frequent the site, enough brave people do who report to me on the shenanigans that go on there. And I mean brave...the few times, as a rookie, that I attempted it, swarms of viruses attacked my computer. If for no other reason, no thank you.)

In addition, as I pointed out above, it makes no difference really whether someone uses Speculative or Standard. I would be willing to bet that if an Italian were to add up the "Italian" and non-specific Southern European numbers from the Standard setting, the total would be very close indeed to the "Italian" on the Speculative setting.



.

well 90% of 23andme testers have no clue on their ancestry and have no clue about anything regional about any nation ...............ask any 100 people on that site where brittany is and what nation it is in and only a few will know......ask them where France is and the % skyrockets.....which is why 23andme only go to national level and your speculation/fabrication that you can decipher is north-italian or tuscan or sicilian is non existent.

For these NI or Tuscan markers they need to rely on other companies and so as I stated they have ONLY 21 samples . I do not know where you can get NI or Tuscan out of 556 Italian samples or the 98 genomes Italian sample.....maybe you can share this with me

 

[Sile]

Well, caro amico, those numbers don't equal 100%, (correct me if I'm wrong, but 21 and 23 equal 44, and not even the smaller bits will get you to 100%) not even when I've had the drink that tonight I most definitely need. The Trentini must be unique genetically. I think the only solution is to petition Austria to take you all back. Let me know how that goes...

stop being childish............you know very well the rest is
49.7% Nonspecific European

oh...and there is a
< 0.1% Nonspecific East Asian

the other numbers are from memory but are close enough

 

[Sile]

@Angela

Thomas, Mar 07 02:57 PM: Hi Victor,
Our records indicate that you were genotyped on our V3 platform. Your 23andMe Personal Genome Service is a comprehensive genetic scan of about 1,000,000 SNPs.
8 MB is the expected file size for a zipped V3 Raw Data file. The file size should be closer to 30 MB once it is unzipped.
Ancestry Composition has the ability to assign pieces of your DNA at several geographic scales. This is important because DNA varies in where it’s found in the world. One piece of DNA might be found just in, say, Finnish people, so we can with some confidence call this DNA Finnish. Another piece of DNA might be found with some frequency in England, Norway and Germany. Instead of choosing arbitrarily from among these regions, Ancestry Composition will label DNA like that “Nonspecific Northern European."
If a piece of DNA is found all over Europe, like in Ireland, Italy, Spain, and Poland, but not outside Europe, Ancestry Composition will label that DNA “Nonspecific European."
Finally, when Ancestry Composition encounters DNA that is very widespread, like a piece of DNA that’s found in Europe, the Near East, and Asia, it will label that DNA “Unassigned.”
Your Ancestry Composition is a living analysis. Using thousands of reference individuals we are able to continually evolve and improve your results. As we update our reference data, it will not be uncommon to see slight shifts in your Ancestry Composition over time. Keep in mind that the knowledge of ancestral genetics is also continually evolving. The field is not static and new discoveries are being made every day. At 23andMe we strive to keep pace with the current science and keep our customers up to date on new findings.
We hope this is helpful for you. Please let us know if we can be of further assistance.
Best regards,
The 23andMe Team


I will find the other messages for you

Its about time, you need to come clean and let me know how you get this NI or Tuscan data from ( and don't mention the 21 samples from other sites)

 

[kamani]

@Sile
These tests are cutting edge technology, plus a lot of speculation. Eventhough, you have 1% Balkan, I have seen Albanians with >70% Balkan, that are 1-2 milimeters away from you in the Global Simmilarity Map. So it is all to be taken with a degree of salt..

 

[Sile]

The issue is ...........23andme should be better than what it gives for ancestry composition

http://dienekes.blogspot.com.au/2012/12/23andme-ancestry-composition.html

Link above has similar to what I say.................I am not that Ponto ( guy or girl )

 

[Sile]

@Sile
These tests are cutting edge technology, plus a lot of speculation. Eventhough, you have 1% Balkan, I have seen Albanians with >70% Balkan, that are 1-2 milimeters away from you in the Global Simmilarity Map. So it is all to be taken with a degree of salt..

ok, your opinion ..........I find it not detailed enough.
for a company who is now struggling due to the FDA imposing a stop to their "bread and butter" medical results!........they need to improve something else,................. even with a new autosomal system, they are failing behind Ancestry.com, BritishDNA, ScottishDNA, NatGeno2 (3), Ftdna Y and Genomes. They need to define what and where they are heading because I cannot see a future if they stay with the system they have.

 

[Angela]

I got it from a member from 23andme .....one of those labelled special members ..........green or blue boxes ( whatever they are)
.

Then say that it is the opinion of a member, and don't label it 23andme, which obviously gives the false impression that the quoted comment is from the scientists at 23andme.

And regardless, whether you knew it or not, I was directed to the page at The Apricity where the comment was posted. The author of the post is a self-designated eminent specialist and authority on all matters of Italian genetics and phenotypes-an American who once went there for a two week vacation, and from what I can tell is a seriously under-educated young man.

Ed. Edited to remove an unsubstantiated claim.

 

[Angela]

this is what I am talking about

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why don't they , 23andme , then not isolate tuscan and north-Italian instead of relying on only 21 results from other sites ?

If they knew tuscan and NI in their data they would isolate their results and not bracket them all in one group

First of all, much of the site has not been updated in quite a while...they are still telling me my U2e is Indian as in South Asian while for the last 20,000 years or so it's been wandering around northern Eurasia and seems to have come into Italy with the "Indo-Europeans". So, I am no apologist for 23andme...it has its flaws, but any criticisms of it or any other company or programs should be informed ones.

Second of all, why would it be necessary for them to isolate North Italians and/or Tuscans in their customer provided data set to tell other customers how much of their genome is a match for the 100% Italian samples? You don't understand what these companies are marketing. They are in the business of telling their customers what percentage of their genome is Italian, not what percentage is northern Italian or Tuscan.It's not that 23andme couldn't do this, as obviously they could, and given that they have the largest data set, it would be very accurate, it's just that they're not marketing that kind of test. There are barely any customers out there who want to know their Italian ancestry, much less these specific details. If you want to see which specific Italian populations you match most closely, go to Dodecad.

You also don't understand how this all works or you wouldn't have asked this question. Either you refuse to read the White Paper which explains how the program works, or you don't understand it, for one reason or another.

Think of it as a big PCA of sorts, although the program is more than that...What seems to be showing up is a big cluster in the middle and then peripheral people both to the extreme north and to the extreme south. People in the extreme south overlap a bit with people to their south logically enough, or south east say, and the same thing works in reverse in the north. Every new sample that comes in is compared or posted in a way. The percentage of that sample's genome that matches the "Italian" cluster is labeled "Italian". It's much more complicated than this...I am trying to simplify it to the most basic level.

The people in the center of the cluster where it is most dense seem from the results I have seen to be Tuscans, because they have the highest "Italian" percentages, with the lowest percentages of "foreign" input whether from north or south. This should make total sense given their geographical location. Then come the central and some southern Italians and northern Italians. This isn't a judgment made by 23andme...it is my judgment based on all the results I have seen.

 

[Sile]

Then say that it is the opinion of a member, and don't label it 23andme, which obviously gives the false impression that the quoted comment is from the scientists at 23andme.

And regardless, whether you knew it or not, and I would bet that you did, I was directed to the page at The Apricity where the comment was posted. The author of the post is a self-designated eminent specialist and authority on all matters of Italian genetics and phenotypes-an American who once went there for a two week vacation, and from what I can tell is a seriously under-educated young man.

so my post 48 is an opinion?

and your other comment is a fabrication of your mind......as I said I do not know about Apricity , but clearly its infested you in your decision making ............have you an issue with me or are you some type of a share-holder/part owner of 23andme, ..........?

You are clearly attacking me, while I attack 23andme ancestry composition system ..............I suggest you keep on the topic and not go on personnel attacks against me.

 

[Angela]

your fabricating what 23andme say.........they said it only up to 500 years old ....................if you know more ...link it

Ancestry Composition tells you what percent of your DNA comes from each of 31 populations worldwide. The analysis includes DNA you received from all of your ancestors, on both sides of your family. The results reflect where your ancestors lived 500 years ago, before ocean-crossing ships and airplanes came on the scene.

I am fabricating nothing...I know perfectly well that 23andme puts a 500 year limit on it...to cover their you know whats.

You really have to read more carefully.

"23andme does not claim to provide deep ancestry, although I think you might be able to push it back even 1500 years." (Emphasis added)

I did not say that 23andme claimed it goes back 1500 years. In fact I have, in numerous posts here and at 23andme, stated that I disagree with their 500 year limit. I think the data shows that it goes back somewhat later. That is my OPINION.

If you had bothered to google the subject at the 23andme site you would find extended discussions about the fact that if it really only goes back 500 years, then the 1-2% SSA that sometimes shows up in Sicilians and some Southern Italians, and in a few individuals in northeastern Italy apparently, would be unexplainable. The last time a sizable migration of people into Sicily and southern Italy that could have left this signal could have occurred is 1100 A.D. with the Saracen invasions. All the passing and re-passing of genes in isolated areas can only explain so much.

 

[Sile]

First of all, much of the site has not been updated in quite a while...they are still telling me my U2e is Indian as in South Asian while for the last 20,000 years or so it's been wandering around northern Eurasia and seems to have come into Italy with the "Indo-Europeans". So, I am no apologist for 23andme...it has its flaws, but any criticisms of it or any other company or programs should be informed ones.

So you are saying that they are giving people false information about their genes/

Second of all, why would it be necessary for them to isolate North Italians and/or Tuscans in their customer provided data set to tell other customers how much of their genome is a match for the 100% Italian samples? You don't understand what these companies are marketing. They are in the business of telling their customers what percentage of their genome is Italian, not what percentage is northern Italian or Tuscan.It's not that 23andme couldn't do this, as obviously they could, and given that they the largest data set, it would be very accurate, it's just that they're not marketing that kind of test. There are barely any customers out there who want to know their Italian ancestry, much less these specific details. If you want to see which specific Italian populations you match most closely, go to Dodecad.

correct, so they should not incorporate NI and Tuscan from other sites to inflate their composition.

It would be far better if they used no other companies data.

your trying to justify, that they should use other sites and then saying they don't need to separate their own data ...........Then what are they giving the "Italian" testers ?

You also don't understand how this all works or you wouldn't have asked this question. Either you refuse to read the White Paper which explains how the program works, or you don't understand it, for one reason or another.

It's not logical how it done, that's what I am asking............I asked you to explain and you failed to do so.............not even Diekes site, they don't understand how its done

Think of it as a big PCA of sorts, although the program is more than that...What seems to be showing up is a big cluster in the middle and then peripheral people both to the extreme north and to the extreme south. People in the extreme south overlap a bit with people to their south logically enough, or south east say, and the same thing works in reverse in the north. Every new sample that comes in is compared or posted in a way. The percentage of that sample's genome that matches the "Italian" cluster is labeled "Italian". It's much more complicated than this...I am trying to simplify it to the most basic level.

You claim that there is a difference between north, central and south , you quote Ralph and coop, Boattini etc etc and then you support this "minestrone" of italian genetics

The people in the center of the cluster where it is most dense seem from the results I have seen to be Tuscans, because they have the highest "Italian" percentages, with the lowest percentages "foreign" input whether from north or south. This should make total sense given their geographical location. Then come the central and some southern Italians and northern Italians. This isn't a judgment made by 23andme...it is my judgment based on all the results I have seen.

I am sorry, but I cannot see your judgement call............I see an illogical system, that should ONLY use its own data and nobody else and present to the PAYING customer, a system which states..........We have an ancestry composition based on today's national borders and not based on any regional or geographical types.

 

[Sile]

I am fabricating nothing...I know perfectly well that 23andme puts a 500 year limit on it...to cover their you know whats.

You really have to read more carefully.

"23andme does not claim to provide deep ancestry, although I think you might be able to push it back even 1500 years." (Emphasis added) I did not say that 23andme claimed any such thing. In fact I have, in numerous posts here and at 23andme, stated that I disagree with their 500 year limit. I think the data shows that it goes back somewhat later. That is my OPINION.

If you had bothered to google the subject at the 23andme site you would find extended discussions about the fact that if it really only goes back 500 years, then the 1-2% SSA that sometimes shows up in Sicilians and some Southern Italians, and in a few individuals in northeastern Italy apparently, would be unexplainable. The last time a sizable migration of people into Sicily and southern Italy that could have left this signal could have occurred is 1100 A.D. with the Saracen invasions. All the passing and re-passing of genes in isolated areas can only explain so much.

Stop deflecting the issue, these are your opinions......................just give the data/results on what 23andme present to the paying customers................99% of customers do not have the ability to read something else when its not there

 

[Angela]

@Angela

Thomas, Mar 07 02:57 PM: Hi Victor,
Our records indicate that you were genotyped on our V3 platform. Your 23andMe Personal Genome Service is a comprehensive genetic scan of about 1,000,000 SNPs.
8 MB is the expected file size for a zipped V3 Raw Data file. The file size should be closer to 30 MB once it is unzipped.
Ancestry Composition has the ability to assign pieces of your DNA at several geographic scales. This is important because DNA varies in where it’s found in the world. One piece of DNA might be found just in, say, Finnish people, so we can with some confidence call this DNA Finnish. Another piece of DNA might be found with some frequency in England, Norway and Germany. Instead of choosing arbitrarily from among these regions, Ancestry Composition will label DNA like that “Nonspecific Northern European."
If a piece of DNA is found all over Europe, like in Ireland, Italy, Spain, and Poland, but not outside Europe, Ancestry Composition will label that DNA “Nonspecific European."
Finally, when Ancestry Composition encounters DNA that is very widespread, like a piece of DNA that’s found in Europe, the Near East, and Asia, it will label that DNA “Unassigned.”
Your Ancestry Composition is a living analysis. Using thousands of reference individuals we are able to continually evolve and improve your results. As we update our reference data, it will not be uncommon to see slight shifts in your Ancestry Composition over time. Keep in mind that the knowledge of ancestral genetics is also continually evolving. The field is not static and new discoveries are being made every day. At 23andMe we strive to keep pace with the current science and keep our customers up to date on new findings.
We hope this is helpful for you. Please let us know if we can be of further assistance.
Best regards,
The 23andMe Team


I will find the other messages for you

Its about time, you need to come clean and let me know how you get this NI or Tuscan data from ( and don't mention the 21 samples from other sites)

What you have provided is what is called "boilerplate"...a prepared statement to send to customers...how does it address the specific issues we have been discussing?

I can't make any sense of the remainder of your statement...I have told you a number of times that I share with and have seen the results from both Tuscans and northern Italians. Some of them are undoubtedly included in the reference sample, as I know they filled out the ancestry questionnaire. Others did not submit their data.

The fact that 23andme doesn't provide a sample by sample listing of the kits and their provenance (which they would never do) doesn't mean they aren't there. Surely you see that? Nor does the fact that 23andme doesn't tell you in the drop down box what percentage of Tuscan or Northern Italian you have mean that they aren't there. The results I posted come from them.

And yes, 23andme only tells a customer what percentage of the kit's entire genome is Italian. However, that analysis is based on a comparison of that kit's data with the data from all of 23andme's 100% Italian samples, whether those samples are from their own customer base or academic sets, and whether they are from Northern Italians or southern Italians or Central Italians.

I don't understand why you don't understand what I am saying, but obviously you don't. Perhaps it's a language problem, or the fact that you haven't yet read the links I've provided, or maybe it's that I am truly very bad at explaining all of this.

Regardless, continuing this discussion is pointless. I am not a woman with endless patience, and what little I have has been exhausted.

I do apologize if you are not one of the posters at The Apricity. There are certainly a few northeastern Italians on there, one named Victor so I am told, who have bizarre, extreme opinions of a most unsavory nature. I suppose I thought that it was too much of a coincidence for it not to be you.

And no, I don't own stock in 23andme...I think your Italian propensity for seeing conspiracies everywhere is showing...I do understand that characteristic...in fact I share it.

Believe it or not, Sile, except for the situation where I lost my temper a bit, I was mostly trying sincerely to explain some of these new generation statistical algorithms (not that I don't think there's a lot of room for improvement, because I do).

And now, I submit that we've provided enough amusement for the other forum members.

 

[Sile]

I can't make any sense of the remainder of your statement...I have told you a number of times that I share with and have seen the results from both Tuscans and northern Italians. Some of them are undoubtedly included in the reference sample, as I know they filled out the ancestry questionnaire. Others did not submit their data.

The fact that 23andme doesn't provide a sample by sample listing of the kits and their provenance (which they would never do) doesn't mean they aren't there. Surely you see that? Nor does the fact that 23andme doesn't tell you in the drop down box what percentage of Tuscan or Northern Italian you have mean that they aren't there. The results I posted come from them.

And yes, 23andme only tells a customer what percentage of the kit's entire genome is Italian. However, that analysis is based on a comparison of that kit's data with the data from all of 23andme's 100% Italian samples, whether those samples are from their own customer base or academic sets, and whether they are from Northern Italians or southern Italians or Central Italians.

Your kit results are based on people who put ancestry as Italian in their questionnaire only..........no ancestry of your kit is used if you said your ancestry is tuscan or north-italian. As most people state...better to leave this information empty and let 23andme decide what you are.
To conclude, should a person from the north or tuscan just say they are italian in the questionnaire and have their results mess up data ?

ONLY people who have placed the word Italian and all 4 grandparents are Italian will there info be used as data for Italian

I don't understand why you don't understand what I am saying, but obviously you don't. Perhaps it's a language problem, or the fact that you haven't yet read the links I've provided, or maybe it's that I am truly very bad at explaining all of this.

I understand how it's work, its a simplified method to appease the masses who have little knowledge of genetics..........I do not understand how you can appreciate this method with ALL the superior knowledge you have on the subject.

I do apologize if you are not one of the posters at The Apricity. There are certainly a few northeastern Italians on there, one named Victor so I am told, who have bizarre, extreme opinions of a most unsavory nature. I suppose I thought that it was too much of a coincidence for it not to be you.

accepted

link me this victor from apricity, I have ways of finding who it is.

AND
this racist Padania remark to me is not justified for me or the Veneti...........they are already recognized by the Italian government as different people and not Italians in the true sense
Con la legge n.340 del 1971 la Repubblica Italiana ha istituito la Regione Veneto, così come doveva essere fatto fin dall'inizio della Repubblica anche per le altre regioni, in quanto disposto dalla Costituzione Italiana.

All'articolo 2 dello Statuto della regione (la suddetta l.n.340 del '71), si legge "L'autogoverno del popolo veneto si attua in forme corrispondenti alle caratteristiche della sua storia.". etc etc


I popoli attualmente riconosciuti sono (in ordine alfabetico):

Il popolo Sardo
Il popolo Veneto

Only sardo and veneto are named in the constitution as different people.............why would Veneti care about Padania, There are no Padanians......Veneti prefer to go it alone. The padanian thing is solely only NW Italy and NC Italy ( mostly lombard )to be seen as different and to unite all north Italy under a nation called Padania with its capital in Milan.......something the veneti disagree on

Believe it or not, Sile, except for the situation where I lost my temper a bit, I was mostly trying sincerely to explain some of these new generation statistical algorithms (not that I don't think there's a lot of room for improvement, because I do).

I read Roberta Estes articles, Cece Moore etc etc....articles on the subject matter and still I see no way you can come up with the numbers you come up with

 

[JRAD]

Is the v4 chip transferable to any other sites?