GEDMatch HarappaWorld Gedmatch, post and compare your admixtures to ancient and contemporary.

Kelmendasi said:
People from Dibra e vogel perhaps are Ghegs that didn't get any further admix from their neighbors due to isolation
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A lot of Diber Vogel is not that rugged compared to Malesia Madhe. Wouldn't this then be more prevalent in Malesia then?

As I understand it, Okshtuni Vogel(our area) Moreso than Okshtuni madhe is very isolated. Okshtuni Madhe is as well. However Vogel has no roads and is very cut off. To this day most of the houses up there are mostly our distant relatives.
 
Dibran said:
A lot of Diber Vogel is not that rugged compared to Malesia Madhe. Wouldn't this then be more prevalent in Malesia then?

As I understand it, Okshtuni Vogel(our area) Moreso than Okshtuni madhe is very isolated. Okshtuni Madhe is as well. However Vogel has no roads and is very cut off. To this day most of the houses up there are mostly our distant relatives.
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Yes but Malsors took Slavic or Vlach brides from time to time unlike Dibrans
 
Kelmendasi said:
Yes but Malsors took Slavic or Vlach brides from time to time unlike Dibrans
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True. But only certain areas of Diber Vogel are isolated. Peshkopi, Maqellara Zerqan are traveled well. By even Macedonians and Bulgarians and Greeks.

My father said according to stories that Okshtun Vogel wasn't that settled until our ancestors showed up. Very unpopulated when they arrived.

This could explain the shift. I would think 300 years is enough to do that.
 
Dibran said:
True. But only certain areas of Diber Vogel are isolated. Peshkopi, Maqellara Zerqan are traveled well. By even Macedonians and Bulgarians and Greeks.

My father said according to stories that Okshtun Vogel wasn't that settled until our ancestors showed up. Very unpopulated when they arrived.

This could explain the shift. I would think 300 years is enough to do that.
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I would like to see my maternal sides autosomal so that I can see if it's a Dibran thing, Dibrans seem to be more neolithic shifted for example on ancient origins Trojet get 60% Neolithic you get 62% and I although I am half Dibran I get 60% Neolithic
 
Kelmendasi said:
I would like to see my maternal sides autosomal so that I can see if it's a Dibran thing, Dibrans seem to be more neolithic shifted for example on ancient origins Trojet get 60% Neolithic you get 62% and I although I am half Dibran I get 60% Neolithic
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Well Lika/Likaj are from Okshtun. Assuming that, your moms side would fall within our range. If it's unique to Okshtun and not something with me and my father.

To see if it's a Dibran thing, we need to get dibran from Peshkopi and other areas outside Okshtuni to test.
 
^^
My mothers maiden name shows that they live/lived in a mountainous and isolated area, Mali(Mountain in English)
 
Kelmendasi said:
^^
My mothers maiden name shows that they live/lived in a mountainous and isolated area, Mali(Mountain in English)
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Could be originated from Okshtun like us.
 
Dibran said:
Could be originated from Okshtun like us.
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Will have to test their Ydna to know, but I doubt it as they say that they have been in Borove for forever lol, although I have a suspicion that they could be Krasniqi
 
They could also be Trieshi
 
Dibran said:
Interesting. I'm doing a fullgenomes test right now. Also after speaking to a Albanian from Mirdita(where we claim descent), the oral history says the Pershpalaj(assuming it was our paternal line and not a woman who married into our line) were descended from A Condottieri from the Apennines named Paul. He was supposedly hired by the King of Albania in the 1400s and brought to Albania to fight the Ottomans.

If this is true, could it explain the shift towards Sardinia and Greece? 550 years being more than enough time to autosomally become predominantly Albanian. It would explain my fathers and my atypical "Italian marker" in the K36. Perhaps it was more elevated in medieval Italy, and due to isolation in the Albanian Alps, retained the higher marker?

Just spit balling here. Could be completely wrong. It would explain our shift towards Tuscans, more than common for Albanian. Especially with 0 Italian ancestry on record.

We also form our own cluster next to Albanians(me and my father) on the PCA plot. LukaszM suggesting possible Proto-Albanian connection. I don't see how though(being R1a).

I am testing with full genomes right now. I'm sure it will bring this matter to light, once the Yelite is ready.

Interestingly(from speaking with Kelmendasi) there is a Tuscan R1a-Z93 individual in Italy. Perhaps we belong to this clade? As I do not score really any Slavic admixture. Other than perhaps Bulgarians. Which is still far off.

Perhaps Thracians or Scythians maybe sarmatians? Idk.
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I wouldn't read too much into your family history. I think the shift to Sardinia, has no relation to Sardinia itself or Italy. I think it comes from original population of Albania, the Neolithic European Farmers (Sardinian like, high Med and low Baloch). You, Albanians, have more of their admixture than Greeks or Macedonia or Bosnia, that's all. The pull to Greece, might not have anything to do with Greece either. This could easily come from Bronze Age migration from Anatolia, the elevated level of Caucasian Admixture. All Balkans have it, but Greeks the most.

And of course, Kelmendasi shift towards NE Euro, is associated with more IE, and perhaps some additional Slavic migrations. Again, most likely very ancient stuff.
 
LeBrok said:
I wouldn't read too much into your family history. I think the shift to Sardinia, has no relation to Sardinia itself or Italy. I think it comes from original population of Albania, the Neolithic European Farmers (Sardinian like, high Med and low Baloch). You, Albanians, have more of their admixture than Greeks or Macedonia or Bosnia, that's all. The pull to Greece, might not have anything to do with Greece either. This could easily come from Bronze Age migration from Anatolia, the elevated level of Caucasian Admixture. All Balkans have it, but Greeks the most.

And of course, Kelmendasi shift towards NE Euro, is associated with more IE, and perhaps some additional Slavic migrations. Again, most likely very ancient stuff.
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Very interesting! Did not think of that. I figured being Balkan peoples moved around a lot that it was just unknown assimilations intermixed.
 
Dibran said:
Very interesting! Did not think of that. I figured being Balkan peoples moved around a lot that it was just unknown assimilations intermixed.
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Actually, it doesn't look like Albanians in Albania moved a lot, or rather mixed a lot. At least since dark ages. Your DNA fits perfectly between Greeks and Balkan Slavic Nations. You are very very close to Greek Mainland genome, and not too far away from Slavic Macedonia. Greek Mainlanders are much closer genetically to Albanians than to Greek Islander.
 
LeBrok said:
Actually, it doesn't look like Albanians in Albania moved a lot, or rather mixed a lot. At least since dark ages. Your DNA fits perfectly between Greeks and Balkan Slavic Nations. You are very very close to Greek Mainland genome, and not too far away from Slavic Macedonia. Greek Mainlanders are much closer genetically to Albanians than to Greek Islander.
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Interesting. Could the similarities with Greeks be due to Arvanite settlers in Greece over time?

Or is this correlation more a product of antiquitous migration patterns of European Neolithic Farmers?

I presume the similarity with Macedonia is due to western Macedonian Albanians?
 
LeBrok said:
Actually, it doesn't look like Albanians in Albania moved a lot, or rather mixed a lot. At least since dark ages. Your DNA fits perfectly between Greeks and Balkan Slavic Nations. You are very very close to Greek Mainland genome, and not too far away from Slavic Macedonia. Greek Mainlanders are much closer genetically to Albanians than to Greek Islander.
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Yh, Albanians are the most homogeneous European ethnic group in terms of IBD sharing and autosomal
 
Do you guys care to split samples into Gheg and Tosk to see how they plot and if there is any difference?
 
LeBrok said:
Do you guys care to split samples into Gheg and Tosk to see how they plot and if there is any difference?
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I don't mind. Not sure how we can tell though. Maybe some of the names for the kit appear to be Southern. But that's not always the case.
 
Dibran said:
I don't mind. Not sure how we can tell though. Maybe some of the names for the kit appear to be Southern. But that's not always the case.
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Mention only the samples of which you are sure. Thanks.
 
Here is what I have so far. I added Cretans, and they look like Greeks from East Islands. I also added Bulgarians and Romanians and they look almost exactly the same, which is a bit of surprise having very different languages. One more addition are Hungarians, who plot closer to Slovenians, and stand out from Romanians and Bulgarians.
Now we need all the former Yugoslav nations, and Balkans are complete. It would be nice to get samples from Moldova too.

Europeans# of samplesS-IndianBalochCaucasianNE-EuroSE-AsianSiberianNE-AsianPapuanAmericanBeringianMediterraneanSW-AsianSanE-AfricanPygmyW-African
Finland4142720510011130000
NetherlandsNortherner096550001002900000
Latvia5177650100001900000
Lithuania5187620001012010000
russianbehar1413640300111300000
belorussianbehar1510641100001610000
ukranianyunusbayev1612580100001720000
PolandLeBrok1710571100002210000
slovenianxing1615510000002330000
Austrians10617431000002840000
Hungarian30915470100102520000
Romanians40823341100002570000
Bulgarians50925340000002470000
Italy, NE70720340000003160000
Italy, NW50620330000003460000
Italy, Tuscany40725280000003280000
Italy, South508321700000027130100
Sicily509321800000027120100
Sardinia 500241600010049100000
Macedoniaselectivememri0625350100012570000
Albania180628290000002780000
Greek, mainland50730260000002690000
Greek, Islands, East509381400100023140000
Cretans309391500100021140000
Cyprus411044610000020170000
Ashkenazi1107331600000025150100
Sephardi, Tunesia61733800000024220301
Turkey411544110430011190000
 
Thank you for your reply, it's very interesting although I doubt about the validity of the results by clustering together all the Aegean Islands (eastern) as in most cases they have totally different historical and anthropological backgrounds
 
I made a PCA based on that spreadsheet.

POQmcLJ.jpg
 
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