GEDMatch HarappaWorld Gedmatch, post and compare your admixtures to ancient and contemporary.

Sile said:
maybe nat-geno old tests for phoenician ( north levant admixture )

Ancient maritime traders of the Mediterranean may have left behind a large genetic footprint in the region, where 1 in 17 men still harbors Phoenician DNA, according to a new study.

The findings could fill a gap in the history of the Phoenician civilization, which originated two to three thousand years ago in the eastern Mediterranean—in what is now Lebanon and Syria—and included prominent traders, according to Chris Tyler-Smith, lead author and associate researcher at National Geographic Society's Genographic Project. (The National Geographic Society owns National Geographic News.)
Genetics gives an alluring clue. The Lebanese, the descendants of the Phoenicians, cluster with the Northern Middle East (along with Kurds and Armenians). This is significant because both Kurds and Armenians are Indo-Iranian groups—nations that speak Indo-European languages (not Semitic ones).


revealed that north-levant peoples came from the north of the zargos mountains and the south-levant came from negrev/North-east africa .............the admixture "war" happened in modern south lebanon

It fits with the late bronze age hittite empire of the levant
Click to expand...

Cool post, Sile. Phoenicians are interesting...I read from a cracked article that they've been recorded by various monarchs throughout the Middle East and Southern Europe....yet no one could figure out where they came from or who they even were to begin with. They were a real mystery!!
 
I did some tests with the Minoans and Mycenaeans. Their results ​​change a lot from calculator to calculator, but there is a constant, especially the Mycenaeans are very Sardinian-shifted. Not all samples are of the same quality, often the gedmatch's calculators use only a small number of SNPs for their evaluation. The most problematic is Crete Armenoi, indeed a low quality sample, it has very inconsistent results on gedmatch, and seems to vary a lot from calculator to calculator, shifting sometimes towards northwestern Europe, sometimes towards northeastern Europe, and sometimes even towards Sardinians.


Updated PCA with Minoans and Mycenaeans. Greece_N is I2937.

PCA_Minoans_and_Mycenaeans.jpg
 
Pratt said:
I did some tests with the Minoans and Mycenaeans. Their results ​​change a lot from calculator to calculator, but there is a constant, especially the Mycenaeans are very Sardinian-shifted. Not all samples are of the same quality, often the gedmatch's calculators use only a small number of SNPs for their evaluation. The most problematic is Crete Armenoi, indeed a low quality sample, it has very inconsistent results on gedmatch, and seems to vary a lot from calculator to calculator, shifting sometimes towards northwestern Europe, sometimes towards northeastern Europe, and sometimes even towards Sardinians.
Click to expand...
Thanks Pratt, could you share their GEDmatch kit numbers in this thread, please:
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/34338-GEDmatch-list-of-ancient-samples-with-kit-numbers
 
Pratt said:
I did some tests with the Minoans and Mycenaeans. Their results ​​change a lot from calculator to calculator, but there is a constant, especially the Mycenaeans are very Sardinian-shifted. Not all samples are of the same quality, often the gedmatch's calculators use only a small number of SNPs for their evaluation. The most problematic is Crete Armenoi, indeed a low quality sample, it has very inconsistent results on gedmatch, and seems to vary a lot from calculator to calculator, shifting sometimes towards northwestern Europe, sometimes towards northeastern Europe, and sometimes even towards Sardinians.


Updated PCA with Minoans and Mycenaeans. Greece_N is I2937.
Click to expand...

Interesting that the Mycenaeans plot so differently here (and on other amateur calcs) compared to the Lazaridis PCA. Also of note is how much more southerly they are compared to Sicilians and south Italians here, whereas in the Lazaridis plot they're very close. Any reason for such contrast?
 
The bottom most mycenaean is quite an outlier. He can't play well with the others : p
 
Have a look at the pic below. It thic PCA means anything, it indicates that shift from Minoans to Mycenaeans occurred through mix from Yamnaya rather than Armenica BA. I made three circles, one for Minoans, one for Mycenaeans and one for Modern Greeks. Greeks move with time in straight line towards Yamnaya.

HarappaWorld PCA, Greeks.jpg

However if Minoans were not representative of Greeks on mainland, and were totally replaced by Mycenaeans, then it makes sense to use Greek Neolithic as a starting point and draw a line to Bronze Age Armenia. Interestingly we go through Mycenaeans and East Islanders with Crete included, all in straight line. We are missing Greece Mainland, because it was shifted towards East Europe by Slavs and maybe few others.

HarappaWorld PCA, Greeks2.jpg
 
LeBrok said:
Have a look at the pic below. It thic PCA means anything, it indicates that shift from Minoans to Mycenaeans occurred through mix from Yamnaya rather than Armenica BA. I made three circles, one for Minoans, one for Mycenaeans and one for Modern Greeks. Greeks move with time in straight line towards Yamnaya.

View attachment 9012

However if Minoans were not representative of Greeks on mainland, and were totally replaced by Mycenaeans, then it makes sense to use Greek Neolithic as a starting point and draw a line to Bronze Age Armenia. Interestingly we go through Mycenaeans and East Islanders with Crete included, all in straight line. We are missing Greece Mainland, because it was shifted towards East Europe by Slavs and maybe few others.

View attachment 9011
Click to expand...

Very interesting.

In case you don't have all these numbers for the ancient samples:

M063398 Bar31 Anatolian Neolithic, Barcin, Turkey, 6419-6238 calBCE
M220828 AH2 Early PPN Tepe Abdul Hosein Iran 8205-7756 calBCE (10215-976)
M249214 GD13A-I1290 Early Neolithic Ganj Dareh Iran 8179-7613 calBCE
M392829 WC1 Wezmeh Cave, Iran 7455-7082 calBCE (9465-9092 ybp)
M417000 Bon002 Early PPN Central Anatolia Boncuklu 8279-7977 BCE)
M423599 I0867 Levant PPNB Motza Israel 7300-6750 BCE (9310-8760 BP)
M510029 tep002 Tepecik-Çiftlik (level 5) c. 6500 BCE (> 8500 BP)
M572712 Klei10 L. Greek Neolithic, Kleitos, 4230–3995 BCE (6240-6005 BP)
M608390 Hotu IIIb Hotu Cave Iran Mesolithic 9100-8600 BCE)
M658611 Rev5 Greek Neolithic Revenia 6438–6264 BCE (8448-8274 BP)
M701826 Bon002 depth>=2 Early PPN Central Anatolia Boncuklu 8279-7977 BCE
M711494 Bar8 Anatolian Neolithic, Barcin, 6212-6030 BCE (8222-8040 ybp)
 
Isn't this calculator a bit outdated at this point?

Anyway, here's my contribution.

Population
S-Indian0.44
Baloch8.00
Caucasian19.49
NE-Euro41.45
SE-Asian-
Siberian0.96
NE-Asian1.51
Papuan0.39
American-
Beringian1.30
Mediterranean22.71
SW-Asian3.74
San-
E-African-
Pygmy-
W-African-
 
Here are my results.

Population
S-Indian0.44
Baloch8.00
Caucasian19.49
NE-Euro41.45
SE-Asian-
Siberian0.96
NE-Asian1.51
Papuan0.39
American-
Beringian1.30
Mediterranean22.71
SW-Asian3.74
San-
E-African-
Pygmy-
W-African-


I've also got around 50 Romanian GEDmatch kits from different regions in the country. So, if that can contribute to an interesting analysis then let me know and I could find some time to process them.
 
JajarBingan said:
Here are my results.

Population
S-Indian0.44
Baloch8.00
Caucasian19.49
NE-Euro41.45
SE-Asian-
Siberian0.96
NE-Asian1.51
Papuan0.39
American-
Beringian1.30
Mediterranean22.71
SW-Asian3.74
San-
E-African-
Pygmy-
W-African-


I've also got around 50 Romanian GEDmatch kits from different regions in the country. So, if that can contribute to an interesting analysis then let me know and I could find some time to process them.
Click to expand...
Sounds great. Welcome to Eupedia JajarBingan.
Yes, you can send these kits via my PM, and indicate regions they are from, or try putting them in bigger geographical or ethnic regions at your discretion, and ease my workload. We need about 7-10 samples by region to create statistical data at full point of admixture.
 
Angela said:
Very interesting.

In case you don't have all these numbers for the ancient samples:

M063398 Bar31 Anatolian Neolithic, Barcin, Turkey, 6419-6238 calBCE
M220828 AH2 Early PPN Tepe Abdul Hosein Iran 8205-7756 calBCE (10215-976)
M249214 GD13A-I1290 Early Neolithic Ganj Dareh Iran 8179-7613 calBCE
M392829 WC1 Wezmeh Cave, Iran 7455-7082 calBCE (9465-9092 ybp)
M417000 Bon002 Early PPN Central Anatolia Boncuklu 8279-7977 BCE)
M423599 I0867 Levant PPNB Motza Israel 7300-6750 BCE (9310-8760 BP)
M510029 tep002 Tepecik-Çiftlik (level 5) c. 6500 BCE (> 8500 BP)
M572712 Klei10 L. Greek Neolithic, Kleitos, 4230–3995 BCE (6240-6005 BP)
M608390 Hotu IIIb Hotu Cave Iran Mesolithic 9100-8600 BCE)
M658611 Rev5 Greek Neolithic Revenia 6438–6264 BCE (8448-8274 BP)
M701826 Bon002 depth>=2 Early PPN Central Anatolia Boncuklu 8279-7977 BCE
M711494 Bar8 Anatolian Neolithic, Barcin, 6212-6030 BCE (8222-8040 ybp)
Click to expand...
I might have all of them, but didn't put them into the PCA for transparency, not to crowd samples too much. Though it is very hard to decide which ones are the most important.
 
LeBrok said:
Have a look at the pic below. It thic PCA means anything, it indicates that shift from Minoans to Mycenaeans occurred through mix from Yamnaya rather than Armenica BA. I made three circles, one for Minoans, one for Mycenaeans and one for Modern Greeks. Greeks move with time in straight line towards Yamnaya.

View attachment 9012

However if Minoans were not representative of Greeks on mainland, and were totally replaced by Mycenaeans, then it makes sense to use Greek Neolithic as a starting point and draw a line to Bronze Age Armenia. Interestingly we go through Mycenaeans and East Islanders with Crete included, all in straight line. We are missing Greece Mainland, because it was shifted towards East Europe by Slavs and maybe few others.

View attachment 9011
Click to expand...
I forgot to mention that buy above measures, Mycenaeans shifted pre-Greeks islanders only half the way to modern location. It means that later arrival of other IE Greeks, the Dorians, Ionians and others, had to do the other half of the shift. Quite substantial shift.
 
LeBrok said:
I forgot to mention that buy above measures, Mycenaeans shifted pre-Greeks islanders only half the way to modern location. It means that later arrival of other IE Greeks, the Dorians, Ionians and others, had to do the other half of the shift. Quite substantial shift.
Click to expand...

How substantial can it be if the authors modeled modern Greeks as 70% Mycenaean? Or am I mis-remembering that?
 
Angela said:
How substantial can it be if the authors modeled modern Greeks as 70% Mycenaean? Or am I mis-remembering that?
Click to expand...
Roughly, twice what Mycenaeanians brought.
 
LeBrok said:
Roughly, twice what Mycenaeanians brought.
Click to expand...

Well, in terms of actual Yamnaya steppe admixture the Greeks have nowhere near 43% steppe, as the graphic above shows. I'm sure the paper would have the percentages, but it looks half that.

The groups which arrived after the Mycenaeans would have had their own Anatolian Neolithic like, CHG, WHG, in addition to steppe ancestry.
 
The position of Hungary Maros is very interesting. Who do they represent? What kind of culture? I find too little information.
 
What is noticeable is the great variability that exists between the ancient samples, in many cases.

The 4 Mycenaeans are varied. The ones who have likely more Yamnaya admixture are Mycenaean I9033 and Mycenaean I9041 but on average all 4 are closer to EEF. All Mycenaeans have Caucasian and Mediterranean. Mycenaean I9006 has higher Caucasian than Mediterranean, Mycenaean I9010 has higher Mediterranean than Caucasian.

Greece Neolitich and Minoans are both a mix of Mediterranean and Caucasian. But Greece Neolitich has a higher Mediterranean, Minoans have higher Caucasian.

I've added also 4 samples from Armenia ChL, they are also varied. Armenia_ChL I1409 has a high NE-Euro (25.52%), in the other Armenia ChL samples NE-Euro range from 9% to 14%. They have also Mediterranean, from 10% to 17%. Obviously their higher component is Caucasian but they seem a bit more European-shifted than modern-day Armenians. Armenia ChL I1632 and Armenia ChL I1634 are close to Greek Cretans, Armenia_ChL I1409 seems to be a bit Yamnaya-shifted.

Jordan EBA samples are more homogeneous and have no NE-Euro and very high SW-Asian but seem a bit different from Levant Neolithic.
 
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