How can IE migration be explained without mentioning Seima Turbino?

[johen]

shimao shaft tomb:

"The 15 pit tombs can be divided into two areas, north and south, of which the southern area has a higher level of tombs, with rounded corners and rectangular planes, and the tomb area is generally more than 10 square meters, with a depth of 3.5 meters to 4 meters."

Archaeologists discover noble-exclusive cemetery at ancient Shimao site in China

A noble-exclusive cemetery with stone walls and rows of burials was discovered at the Shimao site in Shenmu city, Yulin, Shaanxi province, which is evidence of an early-stage country.

govt.chinadaily.com.cn

Mycenaean shaft tomb:

------

- mogou shaft and side chamber grave at Qijia (seima turbino culture) at china:

- catacomb culture shaft and side chamber grave:

- ancient mexican tombs:

 

[johen]

Qin shihwang's spiral : https://www2.oberlin.edu/images/Art250/05-0001.JPG

a wet felted rug with archaic motif from Turkmenistan:

Felted rug

This is a wet felted rug with archaic motif from Turkmenistan. It was a long process, about 1 weeks work. First I started on bubble wrap with design (wet pencil roving), then I filled with coloured…

feltingandfiberstudio.com

"An image of the first Qin emperor on a stone tablet. His attire is decorated with spiral patterns.(above)
Torch for the Beijing Olympics 2008 with spiral patterns.
The Cherchen man with a spiral-pattern painted on the temple.
The horse from Gansu with a spiral pattern on the temple."

https://www.dandebat.dk/eng-dan8.htm:

"Along his temples, there is bright yellow, ochre face paint in a swirl design with rays extending out of the spiral, which spread across his cheek over the bridge of his nose."

https://www.uvm.edu/sites/default/files/S13_Thesis_Longfellow.pdf

seima turbino spirals on dagger:

https://swordmaster.org/uploads/2017/besarab/05-02.jpg

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Natalia-Shishlina/publication/336933892/figure/fig2/AS:1088628382007297@1636560640584/Borodino-hoard-Colour-figure-can-be-viewed-at-wileyonlinelibrarycom.jpg

The many monkey face carvings (with spiral) unearthed from the archaeological excavations of Shimao Ancient City:

石峁古城 黄帝游牧奴役农耕 华夏自北而南 内城外城贵贱别处 猴脸雕刻 人头奠基 城墙出玉器 统万城平城

石峁古城是早2600年的统万城 石峁古城是早2600年的统万城_徐江伟_新浪博客 石峁古城是早2600年的统万城_徐江伟_新浪博客 徐江伟 陕西榆林石峁古城遗址是全国重点文物保护单位，被誉为“21世纪世界重大考古发现”，…

zhuanlan.zhihu.com

Mayan monkey with spiral:

"Three monkeys sit cross-legged. Each holds a cacao pod and wears an ornament around their neck. This polychrome cylinder vase was found at the site of Chama, in Guatemala. Rollout photograph by Justin Kerr (K1789). www.mayavase.com"

"Like other peoples throughout the world, the ancient Maya explained the origin of the world, and of the humans and animals who occupy it, in mythological creation stories. Monkeys figure prominently in these accounts and are often the result of an early and failed attempt by the gods to produce humans. One particularly prominent Maya account of creation, known as the Popol Vuh (book of council), narrates the activities of Jun Batz and Jun Chuen, a pair of monkey artist deities, prior to the creation of humans. The Popol Vuh describes this monkey pair as talented artisans, and specifically as scribes, singers, dancers, painters, sculptors, and jewelers. Representing both howler and spider monkeys, Jun Batz and Jun Chuen were often depicted making art or
writing, and were viewed as protectors of Maya artists"

Monkeys and the Ancient Maya — Punta Laguna

puntalagunamx.com

 

[johen]

Cambridge
"Some of the beads "didn't move very far from where they were found so we know which order they where strung", said Alison
Sheridan"

Iranian glass beads found at 'UK's Pompeii' near Peterborough​

Analysis of beads found at the Must Farm dig reveals the residents' "cosmopolitan connections".

www.bbc.com

A collection of tools and ornaments from the late Bronze Age Adabrock hoard (1,000 -800bc)

Bronze axeheads from Driffield Hoard:

Seima turbino culture migration:

"essential changes in metalworking occurred inthe middle bronze age [megaw, simpson, 1979, p.207], of which the appearance of arrowheads look-ing back to seima-turbino forms is of most interestto us. they have a cast elongated round socket, awide long blade, and a round or rhombic socket-shank. on the socket there are eyes for attachment(fig. 78.3,4). some sockets are ornamented withtriangles or zigzags which correspond closely toseima tradition [ehrenberg, 1977]. middle bronzeage hoards also contain celts with a side eye [farley,1979]. in addition to objects linked with seima-turbino metalworking, metal of central europeanorigin occurs in the wessex complexes, in particu-lar, pins of unětician types [megaw, simpson, 1979, p. 227]"


"The related Proto-West-Uralic *vaśara ("axe, mace", (later) "hammer"; whence Ukonvasara, "Ukko's hammer") is an early loanword from the Proto-Indo-Aryan *vaj’ra-"

Dahekou Cemetery of the Western Zhou Dynasty (c. 11th century-771 BC)

Ancient tomb unveiled: discoveries from Western Zhou Dynasty

On Monday, the Shanxi Institute of Cultural Relics and Archaeology published new excavation information about an ancient tomb from the Western Zhou dynasty (c. 11th century-771 BC) in Yicheng county of Linfen city, Shanxi province.

www.chinadaily.com.cn

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S2352409X22004886

 

[johen]

^
"According to the "Research Report on Ancient DNA of the Remains of the Western Zhou Cemetery in Xinancheng of the Longzi" released by it, 4 of the 7 male samples were tested for N-M128 (upstream of N-F1998), and the other three cases were: 1 Q1a-Y642, 1 C2a1-CTS2428, 1 N1b2e-M1846."

N-L666 - 祖源树TheYtree（基因溯源，免费上树，电子家谱）祖缘树, 父系树

N-L666 - 祖源树TheYtree，也称 祖缘树 全球首个致力于基因寻根溯源服务的公益性网站，不分肤色，不分国籍，不分姓氏，只要你有做父系基因检测，都免费上祖源树，永不磨灭的电子家谱！

www.theytree.com

- "It is worth mentioning that the descendants of N-F963-F1206 appeared in Hungary in large numbers. A few examples are briefly listed below":

https://inf.news/en/science/ee5e024bfa8d597d6c8534ee0f5d16be.html

https://min.news/en/history/a6e5a0414b5945a1a23c568d651e74fe.html

- The Newest Study in Scandinavian aDNA: lots of N

How Do You Compare to New Ancient DNA From Scandinavia?

Are you connected to the samples from the new study out of Scandinavia? Take a look at each sample and discover for yourself.

blog.familytreedna.com

- another elite groups at west zhou dynasty Q1a -M120:

Stratification Analysis of Ancient DNA of Western Zhou Dynasty: Differences in Data from 3 Works of Different Years

1. Data for 2012 Earliest data should be from Li Hongjie's 2012 graduate thesis

www.credit-cards-top.com

western zhou:

^ Yupei

"Buryat woman (Irkutsk) in formal regalia of cascading chain and 4multi-strand beaded ornaments suspended from spacer plaques. Collection ofPeter the Great’s Museum of Anthropology and Ethnology, St. Petersburg. Early20th c. After Basilov, 1989:90."

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S2352226717300284

 

[johen]

^

"Rawson pointed to an earlysecond millennium BCE metal prototype from the Sintashta cultural complex in the northern steppes east of the Ural Mountains (Anthony,2007:392; Rawson, 2013). Only one example (M92) from the Jin cemetery at Tianma-Qucun (western zhou) parallels this model. Both Sintashta and Jin ornaments are significantly shorter than the others. Reconstructed estimates are about 24 and 29 cm for the Sintashta and Jin ornaments respectively."

sintashta ornament:

"the first uses the evidence of ancient documents to show that the Zhou people, and thus the Yellow Emperor’s nation, were originally a nomadic people, and the second is to reveal that there were a large number of Indo-European words in the Zhou language, using the evidence of historical linguistics. The third is the similarity in religion between the Huang Di people and Proto-Indo-European. As to the last point, please refer to the author’s paper “Old Chinese ‘帝*tees’ and Proto-Indo-European ‘*deus’: Similarity in Religious Ideas and a Common Source in Linguistics” (Zhou 2005)."

" soviet scholars are convinced that the custom of depositing chariots in the graves of the shang rulers came from the west, as well as the ceremonial significance of the the chariot itself. the finds of sintashta, where the wheels are standing in furrows carefully dug into the soil of the grave-chamber(exaclty in china) as well as the conventionalized rock carvings, confirm this thesis."

 

[johen]

seima turbino shaman's flexed legs:

https://www.kaichitravel.com/attractions/kalbak-tash/
"The 7,000 years old Neolithic grave by lake Baikal might belong to one of the world’s oldest settlements."



cherokee:

yamna twin : supine-flexed burial in american indian mound
https://www.ncpedia.org/media/museum-town-creek-state-0

yamna:

​

seima turbino

^ Burial ground Sopka

Памятники сейминско-турбинского типа в Евразии

Едва ли в истории народов бронзового века северной половины Евразии удастся отыскать культурный феномен, способный сравниться по яркости, самобытности и характеру своего проявления с сейминско-турбинским.

arheologija.ru

ttps://i.imgur.com/Hu3n53p.png

 

[johen]

^

to sredny stog

from

according to Kortlandt

"If we can identify Indo-Hittite and Indo-European with the beginning and the end of the Sredny Stog culture, respectively, it will be clear that the linguistic evidence from our family does not lead us beyond Gimbutas’ secondary homeland and that the Khvalynsk culture on the middle Volga and the Maykop culture in the northern Caucasus cannot be identified with the Indo-Europeans. Any proposal which goes beyond the Sredny Stog culture must start from the possible affinities of Indo-European with other language families. It is usually recognized that the best candidate in this respect is the Uralic language family, while further connections with the Altaic languages and perhaps even Dravidian are possible. The hypothesis that Indo-European is genetically related to a Caucasian language family or to Afro-Asiatic seems much less probable to me. What we do have to take into account is the typological similarity of Proto-Indo-European to the North-West Caucasian languages. If this similarity can be attributed to areal factors, we may think of Indo-European as a branch of Uralo-Altaic which was transformed under the influence of a Caucasian substratum. It now appears that this view is actually supported by the archaeological evidence. If it is correct, we may locate the earliest ancestors of the speakers of Proto-Indo-European north of the Caspian Sea in the seventh millennium (cf. Mallory 1989: 192f.). This is essentially in agreement with Gimbutas’ theory. [Cf. now Kortlandt 1989.]"

 

[johen]

^
I think ancient people's burial is their identity. They did just as their ancestors did.

yamna identity:

afansievo identity:

afansievo identity even at Mongolia 1,500 km distant from afansievo altai zone

however, z2103 catacomb people at yamna zone, who follow their fathers did. Cimmerian, scythian and Sarmatian have different origins. We don't know where even Cimmerian originated in. I think this fact explains modern population genetics which tries to classify ancient people by modern tools :

- catacomb culture shaft and side chamber grave:

- ancient mexican tombs:

 

[johen]

"The meander is a fundamental design motif in regions far from a Hellenic orbit: labyrinthine meanders ("thunder" pattern [3]) appear in bands and as infill on Shang bronzes (c. 1600 BC – c. 1045 BC), and many traditional buildings in and around China still bear geometric designs almost identical to meanders. Although space-filling curves have a long history in China in motifs more than 2,000 years earlier, extending back to Zhukaigou Culture (c. 2000 BC – c. 1400 BC) and Xiajiadian Culture (c. 2200 BC – c. 1600 BC and c. 1000 BC – c. 600 BC), frequently there is speculation that meanders of Greek origin may have come to China during the time of the Han dynasty (c. 202 BC) by way of trade with the Greco-Bactrian Kingdom. A meander motif also appears in prehistoric Mayan design motifs in the western hemisphere, centuries before any European contacts."

Sanxingdui jade, source: "Sanxing Exploring Jade" (Xiamen Dianshizhai Art Museum

https://pic3.zhimg.com/80/v2-f9cb7e1b17161f38deb126422edc5886_1440w.webp

Sanxingdui jade, folk collection, source: "Sanxing Exploring Jade" (Xiamen Dianshizhai Art Museum, Xiamen Ancient Culture and Art Museum)

https://pic3.zhimg.com/80/v2-86be33e6355cab5e4b613b23fe6df26a_1440w.webp

source: https://zhuanlan.zhihu.com/p/66170508

neolithic baikal:

https://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S104061821501201X-gr9.jpg

seima turbino:
The presence of the Seima-Turbino phase is also evidenced by a find of ananthropomorhic figurine, which finds parallels in Rostovka and Galich hoard (Stefanov, 2004). Supplementary Information p138 below:

Postglacial genomes from foragers across Northern Eurasia reveal prehistoric mobility associated with the spread of the Uralic and Yeniseian languages

The North Eurasian forest and forest-steppe zones have sustained millennia of sociocultural connections among northern peoples. We present genome-wide ancient DNA data for 181 individuals from this region spanning the Mesolithic, Neolithic and Bronze Age. We find that Early to Mid-Holocene...

www.biorxiv.org

Luristan:
page 201 in "Globalization of zoomorphic motifs during the Iron Age in Iran and its neighbours"

Luristan Collector

okunevo and Aryan valley Ladakh images :

Swedish snake-witch

 

[johen]

^

Is the sun carried by women like below? The Sun was personified? Is the person inside the goddess Sol?

 

[johen]

^
^

Are they different?

(The person on right side is a jade artifact connoisseur)

三星堆民间收藏：重新认识上古历史的物证

【题图：三星堆玉器文物，民间收藏】 【上几篇文章：】 遥远经典 近在眼前：【三星堆】神秘文物探源(1)人鸟复合器、神树、祭祀台【多图】遥远经典 近在眼前：【三星堆】神秘文物探源(2)青铜大立人像拿的是什么、神…

zhuanlan.zhihu.com

 

[johen]

^

sanxingdui sun(?) at china bronze:

Egyptian heaven?

Ancient Greek :

Plato, Shamanism and Ancient Egypt, by Jeremy Naydler

Becoming a Star: Philosophy, star-worship and the death of the Body Shamanism and Ancient Egypt In considering the relationships between Plato, shamanism and ancient Egypt, I am going to be…

thehumandivine.org

Which 5 pointed star has magical associations? Plus other five point star info - The Smart Happy Project

Pentagram or five pointed star, which has magical associations? from prehistoric times that five pointed star has held spiritual meaning and significance

thesmarthappyproject.com

- "a human body in a pentagram from Heinrich Cornelius Agrippa's Libri tres de occulta philosophia. Symbols of the sun and moon are in center, while the other five classical "planets" are around the edge."

 

[johen]

Qin emperor's spirals and face:

sanxingdui face:

spiral patterns on sanxingdui' god, sun birds:

(The person on right side is a jade artifact connoisseur, top of top expert)

okunevo face with the same big eyes and large mouth:

okunevo spiral patterns on deers:

 

[johen]

Sanxingdui jade, folk collection, source: "Sanxing Exploring Jade" (Xiamen Dianshizhai Art Museum, Xiamen Ancient Culture and Art Museum)

https://pic3.zhimg.com/80/v2-86be33e6355cab5e4b613b23fe6df26a_1440w.webp

source: https://zhuanlan.zhihu.com/p/66170508

neolithic baikal:

https://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S104061821501201X-gr9.jpg

seima turbino:
The presence of the Seima-Turbino phase is also evidenced by a find of ananthropomorhic figurine, which finds parallels in Rostovka and Galich hoard (Stefanov, 2004). Supplementary Information p138 below:

Postglacial genomes from foragers across Northern Eurasia reveal prehistoric mobility associated with the spread of the Uralic and Yeniseian languages

The North Eurasian forest and forest-steppe zones have sustained millennia of sociocultural connections among northern peoples. We present genome-wide ancient DNA data for 181 individuals from this region spanning the Mesolithic, Neolithic and Bronze Age. We find that Early to Mid-Holocene...

www.biorxiv.org

Luristan:
page 201 in "Globalization of zoomorphic motifs during the Iron Age in Iran and its neighbours"

Nordic bronze:

 

[johen]

^
regarding the above petroglyph:
"Tav.2: Human figures with discs and big-hands human figures. 1: Yazyly, Gobustan, Azerbaijan (Dzhafarzade 1973); 2: Various locality of Kazakhstan (Marikovskii 1999); 3: Moynak, Kazkhstan (Samashev 1992); 4: Gegamskiy Khrebet, Armenia (Martirosyan 1981); 5:Askum Raä, Bohuslän, Sweden (Bengtsson ed.1998); 6: Flyhov, Boushlän, Sweden (Bertilsson ed.1989); 7: Backa Brastad, Bohuslän, Sweden (Abelin 2000); 8: Askum Raä, Bohuslän, Sweden (Abelin 2000); 9: Coren del Valento, Valcamonica, Italy (Anati 1982a); 10: Ossimo IX, Valcamonica, Italy (tracing by Le Orme dell’uomo); 11: Pagherina, Valcamonica, Italy (tracing by Dip-Valcamonica CCSP); 12: Cereto, Valcamonica, Italy (Anati 1982a)."

https://www.rockartscandinavia.com/images/articles/a13umberto.pdf

- seima turbino and okunevo spiral patterns spread east and west. This spiral pattern was called " Auspicious clouds" at china, which is related to auspicious significance or deities or immortals;

Xiangyun (Auspicious clouds) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

seima turbino (one spiral, two spirals, three spiral combination):

https://swordmaster.org/uploads/2017/besarab/05-02.jpg

okunevo spiral patterns on deers:

The spirals were decorated in tons of artifacts at china bronze age including sanxingdui artifacts above. It looks like stamp, like sky(heaven) stamp.

三星堆最近出土的逆天文物是什么？ - 知乎

这两个新近出土的金面具，注意他们的耳朵，都是同样的纹饰，勾连云纹其他三星堆出土的铜像或者面具，耳部…

www.zhihu.com

 

[johen]

according to Kortlandt

"If we can identify Indo-Hittite and Indo-European with the beginning and the end of the Sredny Stog culture, respectively, it will be clear that the linguistic evidence from our family does not lead us beyond Gimbutas’ secondary homeland and that the Khvalynsk culture on the middle Volga and the Maykop culture in the northern Caucasus cannot be identified with the Indo-Europeans. Any proposal which goes beyond the Sredny Stog culture must start from the possible affinities of Indo-European with other language families. It is usually recognized that the best candidate in this respect is the Uralic language family, while further connections with the Altaic languages and perhaps even Dravidian are possible. The hypothesis that Indo-European is genetically related to a Caucasian language family or to Afro-Asiatic seems much less probable to me. What we do have to take into account is the typological similarity of Proto-Indo-European to the North-West Caucasian languages. If this similarity can be attributed to areal factors, we may think of Indo-European as a branch of Uralo-Altaic which was transformed under the influence of a Caucasian substratum. It now appears that this view is actually supported by the archaeological evidence. If it is correct, we may locate the earliest ancestors of the speakers of Proto-Indo-European north of the Caspian Sea in the seventh millennium (cf. Mallory 1989: 192f.). This is essentially in agreement with Gimbutas’ theory. [Cf. now Kortlandt 1989.]"

Moja said:
In Persian ab from proto-Indo-European *h₂ep- means "water" which is the same as the Sumerian word for water, but in Hittite there is watar which could be related to Proto-Uralic *wete "water".

 

[johen]

The band Einstürzende Neubauten's logo ( sourced from prehistoric art based on a petroglyph cave drawing):

sun in oracle bone at china

sky in oracle bone

如日中天，“日”字汉字与书法写法流变

文：高天晨 千字文中“日”来自“日月盈昃”一句，“日”就是人能目测到最亮的恒星的象形，也就是我们常说的“太阳”。“日”的甲骨文即象太阳形。轮廓象太阳的圆形,一横或一点表示太阳的光。 《说文》中说：“日,…

zhuanlan.zhihu.com

 

[johen]

三星堆民间收藏：重新认识上古历史的物证

【题图：三星堆玉器文物，民间收藏】 【上几篇文章：】 遥远经典 近在眼前：【三星堆】神秘文物探源(1)人鸟复合器、神树、祭祀台【多图】遥远经典 近在眼前：【三星堆】神秘文物探源(2)青铜大立人像拿的是什么、神…

zhuanlan.zhihu.com

 

[johen]

Mermaid (Diren River God), Sanxingdui jade, source: "Samsung Exploration Jade" (Xiamen Dianshizhai Art Museum, Xiamen Ancient Culture and Art Museum)

Above: This is a person in a mussel shell (two mussel shells on the back, stepping on a turtle under his feet), Sanxingdui jade, source: "Samsung Exploring Jade" (Xiamen Dianshizhai Art Museum, Xiamen Ancient Culture and Art Museum)

三星堆民间收藏：重新认识上古历史的物证

【题图：三星堆玉器文物，民间收藏】 【上几篇文章：】 遥远经典 近在眼前：【三星堆】神秘文物探源(1)人鸟复合器、神树、祭祀台【多图】遥远经典 近在眼前：【三星堆】神秘文物探源(2)青铜大立人像拿的是什么、神…

zhuanlan.zhihu.com

vs

"In Greek mythology, sirens (Ancient Greek: singular: Σειρήν, Seirḗn; plural: Σειρῆνες, Seirênes) are humanlike beings with alluring voices"
"Sirens were later often used as a synonym for mermaids, and portrayed with upper human bodies and fish tails."

 

[johen]

Above: This is a person in a mussel shell (two mussel shells on the back, stepping on a turtle under his feet), Sanxingdui jade, source: "Samsung Exploring Jade" (Xiamen Dianshizhai Art Museum, Xiamen Ancient Culture and Art Museum)

vs

Early fourth-century BC Attic pottery vessel in the shape of Aphrodite inside a shell from the Phanagoria cemetery in the Taman Peninsula

The Birth of Venus, by Sandro Botticelli c. 1485–1486.