How much Roman Italian DNA do Iberians have?

These are my results with all the ancient samples:

Distance: 0.863 (Very Good)

West African 29.6%
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Continental Celtic (400 BC–200 AD) 27.4%
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Bantu 16.0%
795a96a0-2dea-481c-8338-4241b9e19fac.jpg




Sardinian (1640 BC–990 AD) 10.8%
53f76e3c-0d3e-4547-9267-c43d97ed7347.png




Phoenician (1000–330 BC) 6.4%
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Iberian (730–100 BC) 4.4%
d356def8-64e9-4f2e-a77b-4b549798b4e8.png




South Amerindian (1660 BC–1500 AD) 2.8%
755566d7-1196-4153-af2b-32cbe5c5d461.png




Pygmy 1.4%
b0cb345c-e0ee-4dd9-8161-4c90c2055fcd.jpg




Italic and Etruscan (900–200 BC) 0.6%
7383437c-5b39-432f-9e1a-7afb8a6225ac.png




Caucasian (3700–1700 BC) 0.4%
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Australian (300–600 AD) 0.2%
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Here're a few things to point out: all the ancient samples are selected and still no North African DNA, the Phoenician is expressive, which combined with the Iberian, indicates a connection to southern/eastern Iberia, but all of that Celtic (second biggest), points to western Iberia, the Sardinian and (very minor) Italic might indicate a Roman connection, or maybe, a Cathagenian Empire - related Sardinian migration ancestry? (I doubt it, because the sample I match is from the EMA, not Punic Sardinian) Finally, the Australian, Probably from the South Amerindian (3.0% without any oceanian sample selected), indicates a connection between South America and Oceania as we can also see in your results.

It's interesting to notice that if we add up all the western eurasian percentages (the ones related to my european ancestry) 27.4+10.8+6.4+4.4+0.6+0.4, they add up to exactly 50%.



These are the results when I take the Sardinian out:

Distance: 0.893 (Very Good)

West African 27.0%
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Bantu 18.4%
795a96a0-2dea-481c-8338-4241b9e19fac.jpg




Continental Celtic (400 BC–200 AD) 18.2%
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Iberian (730–100 BC) 15.4%
d356def8-64e9-4f2e-a77b-4b549798b4e8.png




Italic and Etruscan (900–200 BC) 8.2%
7383437c-5b39-432f-9e1a-7afb8a6225ac.png




Phoenician (1000–330 BC) 8.2%
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South Amerindian (1660 BC–1500 AD) 2.8%
755566d7-1196-4153-af2b-32cbe5c5d461.png




Pygmy 1.6%
b0cb345c-e0ee-4dd9-8161-4c90c2055fcd.jpg




Pacific Islander (570–980 AD) 0.2%
c718a6c3-6d42-49dd-acb9-662f96e7a8ad.png



Personally, I think these are better results when compared to the ones with Sardinian, although, a little bit more distant (0.03 more), they make much more sense to me, since, not only the Iberian and Phoenician are now even more expressive, but the Celtic is less so, showing, a DNA much more inclinded to southern/central Portugal. When we analize the places where the Romans colonized, in this post:

I think this might be helpful.


and this post:

Sotty I'm late on this thread, but let's look at a more recent map of Maciamo Eupedia


with the increased amount of Italic and Etruscan DNA, It's clear that we see a pattern here, it points my ancestry to southern Portugal, which makes perfect with my haplogroup, that's a branch of the one above.

Also, the Oceanian changed, from Australian to Pacific Islander, which makes even more sense, the only thing I find intriguing is the lack of North African, so common in places like Iberia
:unsure:

PS: The western eurasian percentages (the ones related to my european ancestry), 18.2+15.4+8.2+8.2, still add up to exactly 50%.
 
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Excluding Sardinians:

Fit: 0.971 (Very Good)

Italic and Etruscan (900–200 BC) 39.0%

Etruscan – TAQ010 : 19.8%
Etruscan – PRZ001 : 8.0%
Latin – RMPR1016 : 6.6%
Etruscan – TAQ001 : 4.6%

Iberian (730–100 BC) 23.4%
Iberian – I3327 : 8.4%
Iberian – I3320 : 8.0%
Iberian – I3324 : 7.0%

Insular Celtic (210 BC–1000 AD) 22.4%
Insular Celt – I0156 : 22.4%

Northwest African (580–1160 AD) 8.2%
Guanche – gun002 : 8.2%

Bantu 4.0%
Luhya (Kenya) : 2.4%
Tswa : 1.6%

Pacific Islander (570–980 AD) 1.0%
Pacific Islander (570–980 AD) – FUT002 : 1.0%

Pygmy 1.0%
Mbuti : 0.6%
Baka : 0.4%

Southeast Asian (1100 BC–400 AD) 0.6%
Dong Son culture – Vt781 : 0.6%

Hellenic (1420–200 BC) 0.2%
Greek (Mycenaean) – I9033 : 0.2%

South Amerindian (1660 BC–1500 AD) 0.2%
South Amerindian (1660 BC–1500 AD) (Rio Uncallane) – IL3 : 0.2%

 
Me

Target: Duarte_scaled
Distance: 2.4560% / 0.02455963
39.4Iberia_East_IA
21.8GRC_Mycenaean
17.4CZE_IA_La_Tene
11.8England_Roman
9.6MAR_EN


Target: Duarte_scaled
Distance: 2.4560% / 0.02455963
39.4Iberia_East_IA:I3324
21.8GRC_Mycenaean:I9033
17.4CZE_IA_La_Tene:I20522
11.8England_Roman:6DT18
6.4MAR_EN:IAM.5
3.2MAR_EN:IAM.7


hello do u have the spreadsheet of that calculator? is in G25, k13... etc?
 
It seems like a highly plausible theory. I'll show a picture once I can post images... of the Roman mines concentrated in the western Iberian peninsula
Can you share this photo here?
 
New studies confirm the emigration of christian southerniberians to free-muslim Kingdom of northwestern Iberia (Gallaecia) in IX century: https://www.lavozdegalicia.es/notic...-convirtio-ciudad/00031666196319467683778.htm 50% of people buried in Santiago de Compostela (Saint Jacques in Galicia) between IXc. and XIIc. were not native, two periods, one during IXc. heavy in southerniberians and another period until XIIc. heavy in people from other places in Northern Iberia, Italy, Southern France and England.

These southerniberians, as it was confirmed by genetic analysis, were taking berber genetics all over the time of Roman Empire, so they were the people who brought this kind of genetics to Northwestern Iberia. The different studies are making very much easier the puzzle of this kind of genetics in Western Iberia.
In other words, there was a Muslim Kingdom in Galicia and the South was Christian? I was unaware of this information.

My y-dna points, for example, to the southern area of Cantabria. Wouldn't this area already be affected?
 
A fast model:
Iberia_IA:Spain_Roman_oLocal,0.133173,0.149283,0.052797,0.023579,0.0513945,0.0066935,0.0008225,-0.006461,0.024236,0.0400005,-0.0043035,0.013263,-0.0144205,-0.0090145,0.009229,0.006828,-0.0005215,-0.002154,0.004148,0.001251,-0.001934,0.0048845,-0.0057925,-0.009218,0.0024545
Iberia_IA:Spain_IA_Celt,0.1252055,0.1477595,0.066939,0.0121125,0.0604725,0.0046015,-0.002585,0.0040385,0.026179,0.033896,-0.0002435,0.0095165,-0.0165015,-0.0088075,0.009772,-0.0012595,-0.0099745,-0.000317,0.002514,-0.0046275,0.008485,0.0037715,-0.006347,-0.0103625,-0.0072445
Iberia_IA:Spain_IA_Celt_o,0.114961,0.144205,0.058454,0.018411,0.054164,0.003626,-0.01034,0.016845,0.030474,0.039181,-0.000974,0.006594,-0.029583,-0.020231,0.002986,-0.013392,-0.007562,0.007855,0.011941,-0.000625,0.005366,0.015086,-0.010599,0.009399,-0.001676
Imperial_Eastern-Med:Italy_LA.SG,0.1062111,0.1500444,-0.010913,-0.0451796,0.0137717,-0.0169949,-0.0006756,-0.0048891,0.0021092,0.0228594,0.0018472,0.0044022,-0.0074144,-0.0006622,-0.0083976,-0.0015248,0.0036181,0.000863,0.0015869,-0.0025559,-0.0020044,0.0018471,-0.0003159,-0.0001279,-0.0009804
Imperial_Eastern-Med:Italy_Imperial.SG,0.1088149,0.1499502,-0.0232629,-0.0568757,0.0039744,-0.0205662,-0.0006916,-0.0056899,-0.0031497,0.0210144,0.0036328,0.0025435,-0.0056491,-0.0006134,-0.0106328,-0.0022274,0.0049509,0.000981,0.0025067,-0.0049167,-0.002763,0.0029712,-0.0016515,0.0006852,0.0003387
North_Africa:North_Africa:Moroccan,-0.055915687,0.13252663,-0.0062225,-0.068778813,0.022984813,-0.031131187,-0.02704075,0.0061584375,0.057202688,0.028816,0.00750025,-0.0062756875,0.02175075,-0.014132125,0.01678675,-0.010043688,-0.002192125,-0.016192313,-0.036617437,0.0098795625,-0.010208437,-0.029676562,0.020821125,-0.0021763125,0.0046326875


1704222084840.png
 
DNAGenics_1706405065080.png

Prácticamente tengo el mismo porcentaje de ibérico que de italiano y hace al menos 200 años en mi árbol no tengo ancestros fuera de la Península Ibérica.
I practically have the same percentage of Iberian as I do of Italian and at least 200 years ago in my tree I do not have any ancestors outside the Iberian Peninsula.

In addition to the fact that I have a lot of relationship with the populations of northern Italy and Switzerland
 

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There isn't that much R1b-U152 in Spain or Portugal not even in the far south where the Roman colonies were most concentrated.

There are slight traces of the subclade Z36 in southern Portugal.
 
There isn't that much R1b-U152 in Spain or Portugal not even in the far south where the Roman colonies were most concentrated.

There are slight traces of the subclade Z36 in southern Portugal.

There is still a fair amount, more than in the balkans for example -

It looks like most of the Roman input is from Anatolia -
 
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U152 has a low-key but not entirely insignificant presence in Iberia, though obviously well outshined by DF27.

A good bit of that may be from Proto-Celt/Celtic related expansions, but some of it may be Roman. Roman colonization is well attested, many from prominent military families of Latin and Umbrian stock etc... Trajan's family being an example.
L2 and Z56 pops up there enough to note.
 
U152 has a low-key but not entirely insignificant presence in Iberia, though obviously well outshined by DF27.

A good bit of that may be from Proto-Celt/Celtic related expansions, but some of it may be Roman. Roman colonization is well attested, many from prominent military families of Latin and Umbrian stock etc... Trajan's family being an example.
L2 and Z56 pops up there enough to note.
These subclades are there in very small quantities but do they match up with the supposed considerable Roman autosomal impact claimed for southern Iberia?
 
"Hallo,
It’s not just Iberians. French and Northern Italians also show high levels of genetic overlap with Illyric populations.

I believe it’s a function of several broad historical factors — one Celtic; one Imperial (Roman); and one Gothic.

With respect to the Celtic question, we know many Gallic tribes settled the northern Balkans and mixed extensively with the northern Illyric tribes. Back-migrations to Gaul and elsewhere in Western Europe were likely. (Strabo even noted several Ibero-Celtic tribes that claimed an origin in Illyria.)

With regard to the Roman question, we know that Rome had subdued the Illyrian revolts and integrated much of Pannonia into the imperial boundaries in the years immediately preceding the Cantabrian Wars. It’s likely that a number of Illyric/Pannonian cohorts were involved in those imperial campaigns in the Iberian peninsula.

The last factor would be the Gothic migrations — out of the Balkans and across Gaul and Iberia. The Visigoths had long been settled throughout Pannonia and the Balkans and invariably mixed—to various degrees—with the local populations (this was not unprecedented or uncommon amongst many migration-era Germanics). Hence, why a number of Visigothic aDNA samples bear Y-Haplogroup markers like E-V13 and J2."

My Result

IMG_20240209_111125.jpg
View attachment 15310
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"Hallo,
It’s not just Iberians. French and Northern Italians also show high levels of genetic overlap with Illyric populations.

I believe it’s a function of several broad historical factors — one Celtic; one Imperial (Roman); and one Gothic.

With respect to the Celtic question, we know many Gallic tribes settled the northern Balkans and mixed extensively with the northern Illyric tribes. Back-migrations to Gaul and elsewhere in Western Europe were likely. (Strabo even noted several Ibero-Celtic tribes that claimed an origin in Illyria.)

With regard to the Roman question, we know that Rome had subdued the Illyrian revolts and integrated much of Pannonia into the imperial boundaries in the years immediately preceding the Cantabrian Wars. It’s likely that a number of Illyric/Pannonian cohorts were involved in those imperial campaigns in the Iberian peninsula.

The last factor would be the Gothic migrations — out of the Balkans and across Gaul and Iberia. The Visigoths had long been settled throughout Pannonia and the Balkans and invariably mixed—to various degrees—with the local populations (this was not unprecedented or uncommon amongst many migration-era Germanics). Hence, why a number of Visigothic aDNA samples bear Y-Haplogroup markers like E-V13 and J2."

My Result

View attachment 15309View attachment 15310View attachment 15311View attachment 15312
This suposed relatedness is not very expressive genetically , it is more about similar ratio of farmer , steppe and whg by chance between iberians, north italians and and ancient illyrians .
North italians are the moat similar with a ratio of around 34 - 40% steppe, 3 - 10% whg and around 60% farmer related with some adicional caucasus and levantine affinities.
This supposed illyrian origin of some celtic tribes in iberia is interesting tho, as I am of iberian origin and have the marker J2b2a1 highly associated with illyrians, this might be a likely path for my paternal ancestor. In the other hnd i don't think these greek sources were perfectly knowledgeable, they thought celts and illyrians were also ethnically broches wich as we know today is not the case.
 
"Hallo,
It’s not just Iberians. French and Northern Italians also show high levels of genetic overlap with Illyric populations.

I believe it’s a function of several broad historical factors — one Celtic; one Imperial (Roman); and one Gothic.

With respect to the Celtic question, we know many Gallic tribes settled the northern Balkans and mixed extensively with the northern Illyric tribes. Back-migrations to Gaul and elsewhere in Western Europe were likely. (Strabo even noted several Ibero-Celtic tribes that claimed an origin in Illyria.)

With regard to the Roman question, we know that Rome had subdued the Illyrian revolts and integrated much of Pannonia into the imperial boundaries in the years immediately preceding the Cantabrian Wars. It’s likely that a number of Illyric/Pannonian cohorts were involved in those imperial campaigns in the Iberian peninsula.

The last factor would be the Gothic migrations — out of the Balkans and across Gaul and Iberia. The Visigoths had long been settled throughout Pannonia and the Balkans and invariably mixed—to various degrees—with the local populations (this was not unprecedented or uncommon amongst many migration-era Germanics). Hence, why a number of Visigothic aDNA samples bear Y-Haplogroup markers like E-V13 and J2."

My Result

View attachment 15309View attachment 15310View attachment 15311View attachment 15312
I also get a distance of ZERO for Viminacium sample I15485. I match only one other sample from this group at a distance of ~13.

What was this sample I15485 all about genetically?
 
my new split
 

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There's something wrong with these calculators, Illyrians weren't so numerous that even Spanish ancestry would be mostly Illyrian. I think they are mixing up Illyrian with maybe previous Bell Beaker or Tumulus samples. Illyrians match closest with Albanians and North Italians
 

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