Huge genetic changes in Albanians ?

basiccomponents.png
 
Distance to: HRV_Cetina_BA_1d.rel.I19027.possible.1d.rel.I19020 _I19022
2.57576725 IT_Umbria
2.67594621 GR_Thessaly
2.67975328 GR_Cyclades
2.68626073 IT_Toscania
2.68846434 IT_Marche
2.69212259 IT_Lazio
2.72573609 IT_Molise
2.73259056 IT_Apulia
2.74776161 IT_Emilia-Romagna
2.75208103 GR_Peloponese
 
Claims huge genetic change, claims all these samples cluster like South-Western Euros, while many do, many also actually don't. :LOL:

Distance to: ALB_cinamak_EBA_I14689
2.26200081 Abazin
2.27705781 Nogai_Dagestan
2.42679020 Kumyk
2.50643175 Cirkassian
2.50839349 Kabardin
2.54580501 Tabassaran
2.57755846 Avar
2.58018007 Kaitag
2.59597530 Lezgin
2.69214487 Tsakhur

Distance to: ALB_cinamak_Anc_I16254
1.38996490 IT_Emilia-Romagna
1.40692595 IT_Toscania
1.45480085 IT_Marche
1.47499639 IT_Lazio
1.48542944 Albanian_south
1.49398528 Albanian_north
1.51249405 IT_Molise
1.51453737 FR_Corsica
1.53371901 Albanian_Kosovo
1.54069327 GR_Ipeiros


Distance to: ALB_cinamak_Anc_I16253
1.57707919 IT_Lombardia
1.60222133 IT_Toscania
1.69901036 IT_Emilia-Romagna
1.70666551 Albanians_FYROM
1.79720556 Albanian_south
1.82056761 Albanian_north

1.84134941 IT_Trentino
1.86122534 GR_Ipeiros
1.86669777 FR_Corsica
1.87879243 Albanian_Kosovo

Distance to: ALB_cinamak_Anc_I16251
1.07484410 Albanians_Montenegro
1.07831303 Albanian_Kosovo
1.14188940 Albanian_north
1.14271966 GR_Thesalloniki
1.17530993 Albanian_south

1.20025960 IT_Friuli
1.22644462 GR_Thrace
1.24474885 IT_Marche
1.26894943 GR_Central
1.27190658 GR_Macedonia

Distance to: ALB_cinamak_Anc_I14692
1.29229025 IT_Toscania
1.29838966 IT_Emilia-Romagna
1.33822026 IT_Liguria
1.43573303 IT_Lombardia
1.45826258 GR_Ipeiros
1.50588238 FR_Corsica
1.51392313 Swiss_Italian
1.52106062 IT_Trentino
1.53061001 Albanian_Kosovo
1.54144663 IT_Marche
 
We have 4 Illyrians with EV-13 so the premise is wrong to begin with.

These people are sick in the head. No point in dealing with them. The authors of the paper themselves stated Albanians have largely remained static since the Middle Bronze Age (which surprise, surprise is when the Illyrians invaded the Balkans).

No we don't.

We have single Illyrian V13. And we have 3 Roman era samples. For the earliest of them a case might be made for an Illyrian origin.

For the others, they are not Illyrian as Illyrians as an identifiable separate group of people no longer existed in those areas where the samples are from.
 
She even literally god banned from Anthrogenica . This person I can hands down say is probably the most mentally challenged person I have ever seen. I have never in my life ever learned anything from this idiot be it about history or genetics. I have never seen this person actually post factual evidence for some of the things she claims. It's also pseudo science, pseudo history etc. All her sources regarding history are also all pretty much from wikipedia. Just some mentally unstable person who larps and larps all day long , people actually give this idiot 11 thumbs up for her cherry picked samples :LOL:
 
OIQinC9.png


To me it looks like after the initial contact the Albanian_ChL people had with Yamnaya, pretty much just became closer to their neolithic/ChL ancestors. This is a totally normal and expected dynamic for the region, based on the similar trajectory for the Greeks. No doubt there was probably some Slavic admixture in the Middle ages, but from the looks of the PCA, it doesn't seem that dramatic.
 
I myself am closest to a Medieval Albanian in the set provided by the new paper.

Distance to:Jovialis
5.43155595ALB_Mdv:I14622
6.14608819ALB_PostMdv:I14686
6.85800262ALB_Mdv:I13839
7.79806386ALB_PostMdv:I14687
9.65615866ALB_PostMdv:I15707
10.38959094ALB_Çinamak_Anc:I16251
10.46861500ALB_PostMdv:I14685
11.07096202ALB_Mdv:I13834
11.40554251ALB_Çinamak_Anc:I14688
11.43629748ALB_PostMdv:I15706
12.23197858ALB_Çinamak_Anc:I14692
13.47892058ALB_Çinamak_Anc:I14690
14.51255319ALB_MBA:I8471
15.31278224ALB_Çinamak_Anc:I16254
17.42882383ALB_Çinamak_Anc:I16253
18.63060117ALB_Çinamak_Anc:I16256
21.02826669ALB_Mdv_lc:I17623
24.85480839ALB_Barç_PostMdv:I13836
25.10971724ALB_Barç_PostMdv:I13835
25.31064401ALB_Barç_PostMdv_daughter.or.mother.I13835:I13837
25.77500727ALB_Çinamak_Anc_1d.rel.I16256:I17633
27.59365869ALB_NChL:I13840
27.60891160ALB_NChL:I13838
30.00243490ALB_N:I15705
30.06267619ALB_Barç_PostMdv:I13833
 
No we don't.

We have single Illyrian V13. And we have 3 Roman era samples. For the earliest of them a case might be made for an Illyrian origin.

For the others, they are not Illyrian as Illyrians as an identifiable separate group of people no longer existed in those areas where the samples are from.

Is this idiot for real? "Roman Era" Illyrians are still Illyrians. You had a major revolt of Illyrians during the empire against the Romans.

https://www.cambridge.org/core/book...m-batonianum/B0E1725557B6E64E938A8F63E1060452

This moron thinks Illyrians stopped existing because Romans made an empire.
 
OIQinC9.png


To me it looks like after the initial contact the Albanian_ChL people had with Yamnaya, pretty much just became closer to their neolithic/ChL ancestors. This is a totally normal and expected dynamic for the region, based on the similar trajectory for the Greeks. No doubt there was probably some Slavic admixture in the Middle ages, but from the looks of the PCA, it doesn't seem that dramatic.

The Illyrian ethos is agreed to have been formed during the Middle Bronze Age, and the paper's author state that's when it stabilized.

You can see some movement there over that time, even in Medieval times (Imperial/Slavic/Germanic), but it's nothing major.
 
OIQinC9.png


To me it looks like after the initial contact the Albanian_ChL people had with Yamnaya, pretty much just became closer to their neolithic/ChL ancestors. This is a totally normal and expected dynamic for the region, based on the similar trajectory for the Greeks. No doubt there was probably some Slavic admixture in the Middle ages, but from the looks of the PCA, it doesn't seem that dramatic.


It's actually interesting because Cinamak and even the ALB_MBA on that map is right around Albanian , the ALB MBA is the same sample she used in the OP in the link which gets Albanian at distance 5 and claims based on that huge genetic changes :LOL: This is what one of the Albanian female members even told her that the distance is not really that huge.
 
Yeah exactly, they are most likely product of Romanized native Balkan people so EV-13 is still EV-13. (Regardless if these were Illyrianized Thracians )

There is no reason they would be "Thracians". We're talking north-western Balkans here.
 
There is no reason they would be "Thracians". We're talking north-western Balkans here.

Sorry I was talking about the Roman period in general, for example even if some EV-13 Thracian/Dacian was absorbed into an Illyrian or Greek ethnos that doesn't make it Thracian anymore so why call it Thracian. It's obvious also that EV-13 became widespread in the Balkans, most likely through a bottleneck effect or founder effect.
 
OIQinC9.png


To me it looks like after the initial contact the Albanian_ChL people had with Yamnaya, pretty much just became closer to their neolithic/ChL ancestors. This is a totally normal and expected dynamic for the region, based on the similar trajectory for the Greeks. No doubt there was probably some Slavic admixture in the Middle ages, but from the looks of the PCA, it doesn't seem that dramatic.

I realized there are no iron age samples.

I think this is crucial to understanding what happened with more nuance.

I wonder if I would be even closer to the IA Albanians.

I myself am closest to a Medieval Albanian in the set provided by the new paper.

Distance to:Jovialis
5.43155595ALB_Mdv:I14622
6.14608819ALB_PostMdv:I14686
6.85800262ALB_Mdv:I13839
7.79806386ALB_PostMdv:I14687
9.65615866ALB_PostMdv:I15707
10.38959094ALB_Çinamak_Anc:I16251
10.46861500ALB_PostMdv:I14685
11.07096202ALB_Mdv:I13834
11.40554251ALB_Çinamak_Anc:I14688
11.43629748ALB_PostMdv:I15706
12.23197858ALB_Çinamak_Anc:I14692
13.47892058ALB_Çinamak_Anc:I14690
14.51255319ALB_MBA:I8471
15.31278224ALB_Çinamak_Anc:I16254
17.42882383ALB_Çinamak_Anc:I16253
18.63060117ALB_Çinamak_Anc:I16256
21.02826669ALB_Mdv_lc:I17623
24.85480839ALB_Barç_PostMdv:I13836
25.10971724ALB_Barç_PostMdv:I13835
25.31064401ALB_Barç_PostMdv_daughter.or.mother.I13835:I13837
25.77500727ALB_Çinamak_Anc_1d.rel.I16256:I17633
27.59365869ALB_NChL:I13840
27.60891160ALB_NChL:I13838
30.00243490ALB_N:I15705
30.06267619ALB_Barç_PostMdv:I13833
 
From the data set I'm closest to a Byzantine from Croatia, I'm looking for the date it is from:

Distance to:Jovialis
2.77221933HRV_Trogir_Byz:I15744
3.31691121HRV_Trogir_Byz:I15462
3.82032721HRV_Trogir_Byz:I15463
5.08145648HRV_Trogir_Byz:I15741
5.43155595ALB_Mdv:I14622
5.95918619TUR_Marmara_Balıkesir_Byz:I14822
6.06599538TUR_Marmara_İznik_Y.kapı_Byz:I14840
6.14608819ALB_PostMdv:I14686
6.85800262ALB_Mdv:I13839
7.43835331TUR_Marmara_Balıkesir_PostMdv:I14823
7.79806386ALB_PostMdv:I14687
7.89941770MKD_Anc:I10389
8.87252501MKD_BA:I7231
9.18601110TUR_Marmara_Balıkesir_Byz:I14831
9.28975242GRC_Palace_of_Nestor_EIA:I19368
9.37597462BGR_Veliko_Tarnovo_Mdv:I17980
9.39180494BGR_TellKran_EBA:I19453
9.65615866ALB_PostMdv:I15707
9.71159616MKD_Anc:I10391
9.71831776TUR_Aegean_Muğla_Stratonikeia_Byz:I20187
9.86454763BGR_Anc:I19500
10.02677416TUR_Marmara_Balıkesir_Byz:I14832
10.30341691HRV_Trogir_Byz:I15743
10.38959094ALB_Çinamak_Anc:I16251
10.46861500ALB_PostMdv:I14685

From the supplement:

I15744/2651, grave 4, SU148, MG15 2018 (petrous bone), genetically female, infant.The age-at-death was approximately 2 years. Pitted enamel defects and short diaphyseal length of the long bones in comparison with dental maturation age reflected possible metabolic disruption due to stresses intrauterine or early life. The aDNA analysis showed that the individuals in grave 2 and grave 4 were sisters.

As someone with a child around that age, that makes me sad.
 
Where are you guys getting these proximity samples to ancient dna????
 
That person is nuts, buddy. Opens up a thread about Albanians as if the Albanians are some population that only lived in Albania and compares them with populations only there. When historically Albanians lived in other areas too. There were Albanians as far as Nish and SE-Serbia where we actually got E-V13 and these towns that follow Albanian phonetic changes in the central Balkans were inhabited by Albanians yet this person claims there were no Albanians there until 1690 and claims Serbs should be pitied. She opened the thread in order to provoke Albanians with the assumption that Albanians are some population that only lived in Albania and she did this just because some Albanian members said the word 'Delmatae' might come from 'Delme' . This is literally what these people believe and promote that there were almost no Albanians in these territories until 1690 and claims Serbs should be pitied when this is actually false and some Albanian members even confronted her. She promoted these theories for years. All the images she took are from here from the thread ''Where did the Albanian language originate'' , all her theories are copied from here yet claims Albanians are the ones with the low IQ. Haha. It is possible people who were E-V13 moved at one point into Albania/Montenegro too from the Central Balkans.

She opened these threads because she is butthurt. Claims her people are Illyrians , you can just look at some of her posting history. This nut job should of been avoided and you'd save yourself a lot of head ache. Some nut job that has obsession about Illyrians when these samples in Croatia don't even plot like Illyrians, they shift West compared to the Bronze Age. These weren't compact territories. These people have this wet dream that history of the Balkans started when these people arrived but they all got debunked. Just some tribes that arrived too late. Certainly doesn't matter where everyone came from.
 
Then you have these Serbian clowns who have this wet dream the Albanians originated from some tribe in Bulgaria that some how magically arrived to Albania in 900 AD haha but this certainly doesn't explain Naissus -> Nish , Scupi -> Shkup, Astibos -> Shtip , Ulpiana -> Lipjan etc or the Mat region . Most of them are nut jobs . Even get triggered when they see someone that is Illyrian shifted. People obsessed with Illyrians , they don't even have the same lineage as these Illyrians . Hahaha .

They claim there were no Albanians in Kosovo until 1690 Hahahahahah . There were Albanians literally as far as Nish .
 
I got something like:
Distance to:who_cares_scaled
0.01964589ALB_PostMdv:I15706___R-Y81700___AD_1630___Coverage_69.40%
0.02550784HRV_Trogir_Byz:I15743___female___AD_921___Coverage_71.11%
0.02726853SRB_IA:I16814___R-L52___BC_953___Coverage_63.38%
0.03309438ALB_Çinamak_Anc:I14690___R-CTS1450___BC_1050___Coverage_65.05%
0.03406595ALB_PostMdv:I14685___female___AD_1550___Coverage_66.58%

and:

Target: who_cares_scaled
Distance: 0.2534% / 0.00253390
46.6HRV_IA
21.4TUR_Aegean_Muğla_Samantaş_Byz
20.0BIH_unknown
7.6JOR_PPNC_1d.rel.I1699
4.4BGR_Samovodene_Mdv
 
Some more Albanian results

unknown.png


IMG_9954.png
Not sure why but they removed the medieval Albanian samples. They no longer appear for any of the kits I own. They were ny closest single distance matches. This is mine, my father's my mothers and my friend.

Me:

[IMAGE]https://i.postimg.cc/DyPVnc31/Screenshot-20231001-082731-Chrome.jpg[/IMAGE]
[IMAGE]https://i.postimg.cc/V6r4vzS3/Screenshot-20231001-081600-Chrome.jpg[/IMAGE]

Mom (Malzi, Kukes on paternal side and Shkoder on maternal:

[IMAGE]https://i.postimg.cc/5NLz06sB/Screenshot-20231001-082810-Chrome.jpg[/IMAGE]
[IMAGE]https://i.postimg.cc/0NdP3q21/Screenshot-20231001-081657-Chrome.jpg[/IMAGE]

Dad (Okshtun, Diber on all sides):

[IMAGE]https://i.postimg.cc/6pxQ1cLR/Screenshot-20231001-082754-Chrome.jpg[/IMAGE]
[IMAGE]https://i.postimg.cc/26D3bw3r/Screenshot-20231001-081623-Chrome.jpg[/IMAGE]

My friend from Podujeva(E-V13>PH2180*):

[IMAGE]https://i.postimg.cc/HnTqyJQr/Screenshot-20231001-082830-Chrome.jpg[/IMAGE]
[IMAGE]https://i.postimg.cc/wMRrChcR/Screenshot-20231001-081725-Chrome.jpg[/IMAGE]
 

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