I2a-Din came to the Balkans and Dinaric Alps with the Thracians, Dacians & Illyrians

[Fatherland]

Same goes to Albanians. North Albanians have more North-Eastern admixture than South Albanians, yet we know that historically North has been affected less by the Slavs due to its terrain and culture, whereas the South was more prone to sudden changes as even the Slavic toponymy proves it.

You are wrong, read what I wrote.

I already explained to you. Ghegs are NW-shifted from Tosks. Shifting is more relevant as it shows proportions.
This includes all Ghegs from Kosovo and elsewhere.

Again, pigmentation has zero relevance so your entire point is refuted.

Croats, Slovenes, Bosnians and many Montenegrins are the most northeast shifted out of all South Slavs.

I'll show you the k15 plotting map when I get back at home.

Typing from phone.

 

[Sile]

Sile if you and I could investigate further we could nail precisely a Thracian or German tribe where I-CTS10228 emerged.

But it is a serious research effort.

You could be right surely that I-CTS10228 was among Sarmatians, but only in western parts, if it was more frequent it spread to more eastern.

I think the Bastanae could be one of the sources.............moving from south Ukraine to moesia/macedonia ~300BC ..............100000 with women and children is a major number in those days

 

[Sile]

Moesians are considered by the majority of modern scholars as Illyrians.

The triballi thracian tribe are from Moesia and they make up the bulk of the serbian populace today in regards to ancients

 

[Sile]

But you are talking about losers.



And Goths could bring I-CTS10228 to the Balkans. And it is possible one part brought Thracians and other part Goths. I told what irony (due to history) that I-CTS10228 is German marker but in real world many things are possible.

They could have as the goths via historians are stated to have absorbed the sarmatians and the bastanae into gothic society.

so , If as I have already stated the bastanae ( not all ) went from south ukraine to moesia/macedonia around ~300BC and then later the bastane that remained where absorbed into gothic society, then we could have found

south-ukraine later became slavic

then we could have found this I-CTS10228 origins

 

[Sile]

Try countering my arguments MilanM, maybe it works?
Tell me who is more trustworthy? A writer who lived at the same time as Getae? Or an 1100's orthodox writer who tried to link the orthodox slavs to an ancient balkanic people which lived 1000 years before himself? Please elaborate, because i can not follow the logic


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Getae, an ancient people of Thracian origin, inhabiting the banks of the lower Danube region and nearby plains. First appearing in the 6th century bc, the Getae were subjected to Scythian influence and were known as expert mounted archers and devotees of the deity Zalmoxis.

 

[Sile]

Gothi were the Getae Thracians ,not Germans.To every ancient author the name and people are same,just variations.Like Sclavus and Sclavenoi for example.Whenever you understand this you can actually grasp certain things or understand the medieval history.Also the thing we found "Slavic" DNA where we should find Germanic Goths,likewise non existent in the Balkans "Germanic" DNA where plenty of Goths settled.

when the Romans had gained control over the lower Danube region, thousands of Getae were displaced, and, not long thereafter, references to the Getae disappeared from history. Later writers wrongly gave the name Getae to the Goths.The Getae and Dacians were closely related; some historians even suggest that these were names applied to a single people by different observers or at different times. Their culture is sometimes called Geto-Dacian.

 

[Sile]

You are wrong, read what I wrote.

I already explained to you. Ghegs are NW-shifted from Tosks. Shifting is more relevant as it shows proportions.
This includes all Ghegs from Kosovo and elsewhere.

Again, pigmentation has zero relevance so your entire point is refuted.

Croats, Slovenes, Bosnians and many Montenegrins are the most northeast shifted out of all South Slavs.

I'll show you the k15 plotting map when I get back at home.

Typing from phone.

IIRC, the albanian government for the last 30 years has decided that Tosk is the official language of Albania and that gheg is a slavic form of albanian ( ie, influenced too heavily from ) ....and all schools will adopt Tosk ............clearly there is a historical reason for this decision

 

[Fatherland]

IIRC, the albanian government for the last 30 years has decided that Tosk is the official language of Albania and that gheg is a slavic form of albanian ( ie, influenced too heavily from ) ....and all schools will adopt Tosk ............clearly there is a historical reason for this decision

Genetics imply otherwise.

There are many examples of populations speaking languages they are not related to genetically.

Ghegs are northwest of Tosks genetically.
Ghegs have the highest Atlanto_Mediterranean admixture of the entire Eastern Europe. MLDP

Ghegnian is the purest form of Albanian regardless of what communist dictator decided.

 

[LABERIA]

IIRC, the albanian government for the last 30 years has decided that Tosk is the official language of Albania and that gheg is a slavic form of albanian ( ie, influenced too heavily from ) ....and all schools will adopt Tosk ............clearly there is a historical reason for this decision

This is absolutely not true. Please, avoid to speak about Albanians because just from this sentence it is evident that you don't know nothing. Always the Geg dialect has been considered more pure than Tosk. And i am a Tosk.

 

[LABERIA]

Genetics imply otherwise.

There are many examples of populations speaking languages they are not related to genetically.

Ghegs are northwest of Tosks genetically.
Ghegs have the highest Atlanto_Mediterranean admixture of the entire Eastern Europe. MLDP

Ghegnian is the purest form of Albanian regardless of what communist dictator decided.

Geg dialect as i said is more pure than Tosk, but Tosks were always more civilised than Gegs and of course this is reflected even in the language. But the standard Albanian is based in the Elbasan dialect that is something in the middle. Of course is influenced much more from the Tosk dialect but things are not black and white.

 

[Fatherland]

The Slav-with-identity-crisis lobby is very strong in Eupedia and elsewhere, but the Administration has displayed cold logic which I appreciate.

 

[Milan.M]

when the Romans had gained control over the lower Danube region, thousands of Getae were displaced, and, not long thereafter, references to the Getae disappeared from history. Later writers wrongly gave the name Getae to the Goths.The Getae and Dacians were closely related; some historians even suggest that these were names applied to a single people by different observers or at different times. Their culture is sometimes called Geto-Dacian.

They never dissapeared from sources,all authors were writing about them even the Romanticist Germans.Wrongly atributed is just modern myth,the ancient authors and their contemroraries didnt knew they were same people and were Thracians only Romanticists much later get the clue,the mass historical revisionism.The codex of that bible is so called Gothic language,much later piece of paper,which is not original Getic/Gotic language,where is coins, inscriptions etc judging their architecture they left,early churches in Spain entirely Eastern in origin "Byzantine".Some of the wierdest Germans but whatever.

 

[DuPidh]

Geg dialect as i said is more pure than Tosk, but Tosks were always more civilised than Gegs and of course this is reflected even in the language. But the standard Albanian is based in the Elbasan dialect that is something in the middle. Of course is influenced much more from the Tosk dialect but things are not black and white.

Geg dialect is a treasure. Much has been lost. I am not a linguist but they should have done something to save it. Both dialects should have been taught in school. There is not much difference among them anyway. Geg dialect shows some slavic influence in the last 100 years

 

[Fatherland]

Facts:

Atlanto-Med admixture, peaks in Ghegs throughout all of Eastern Europe:

North-East Euro admixture:

 

[LABERIA]

Geg dialect is a treasure. Much has been lost. I am not a linguist but they should have done something to save it. Both dialects should have been taught in school. There is not much difference among them anyway. Geg dialect shows some slavic influence in the last 100 years

In Kosova maybe there are some influences, but among the Geg in Albania, no.

 

[Garrick]

The Slav-with-identity-crisis lobby is very strong in Eupedia and elsewhere, but the Administration has displayed cold logic which I appreciate.

It is not offense but crisis of identity only Albanians show.

You debate about very different things including languages of Tosks and Ghegs what has nothing to do with topic.

Whether you do consciously or unconsciously but unnecessarily overwhelm the topic

 

[Fatherland]

It is not offense but crisis of identity only Albanians show.

You debate about very different things including languages of Tosks and Ghegs what has nothing to do with topic.

Whether you do consciously or unconsciously but unnecessarily overwhelm the topic

You are wrong as always.

I replied to Sile since he opened the language subject.

You are not the one to decide what is to be posted or not, considering your own posting history.

 

[Garrick]

You are wrong as always.

I replied to Sile since he opened the language subject.

You are not the one to decide what is to be posted or not, considering your own posting history.

Why are you frustrate. What Gheg's language has more Slavic words than Tosk's. It doesn't matter and it is not the topic.

 

[LABERIA]

Why are you frustrate. What Gheg's language has more Slavic words than Tosk's. It doesn't matter and it is not the topic.

Come on let's try to avoid this kind of provocative discussions Garrick and let's try to discuss.
I have a question. I am curious, why the other ethnic groups of ex-Yugoslavia call you serbs, Vlasi, i.e. Vlachs?

 

[Miroslav]

I have a question. I am curious, why the other ethnic groups of ex-Yugoslavia call you serbs, Vlasi, i.e. Vlachs?

No, really - just stop going off-topic. You do not discuss the topic of the discussion. I proposed you a specific hypothesis which included both Thracian and Slavic theories, but all of you went astray. You can not keep the discussion focused even for one single page. The use of the term Vlachs for Greek Orthodox people is a totally different topic, it has nothing to do with the origin of I2a-Din haplogroup, and trying to answer it is just opening a pandora's box. Actually, I am more than sure that your question was intentionally provocative considering the controversy and debate about the use of the term Vlachs and so on, yet you're the one who said: "let's try to avoid this kind of provocative discussions". C'mon, your intention is transparent... Can we stay on topic, please?