I2a-Din came to the Balkans and Dinaric Alps with the Thracians, Dacians & Illyrians

[Kingslav]

It's good to avoid this discussions of Albanians conquered by I2A-Din. We know very well who was conquered and by whom. Let's respect the decision of LeBrok about this issue. Believe, it's very painful if we enter in details. So, let's try to make a civilised discussion.

"Around the 6th century, Slavs appeared on Byzantine borders in great numbers. The Byzantine records note that grass would not regrow in places where the slavs had marched through, so great were their numbers. After a military movement even the Peloponnese and Asia Minor were reported to have Slavic settlements. This southern movement has traditionally been seen as an invasive expansion. By the end of 6th century, Slavs had settled the eastern alps region." Slavs Migrations Wikipedia.

Summary of slav invasions and population replacement in South Balkans. Approximately beginning 500 AD.

 

[Kingslav]

Bla bla bla...

I even made sure to say that Northern Slavs have mostly blue eyes and some of the highest percentages of blonde hair, and you still didn't get it. Oh well, a lesson for me not to waste time.


"Many Ukrainians are dark-haired, dark-eyed too". Wow, what a great point mate. I feel so stupid right now.

How about concentrating really hard on my post and read why its exactly in the place with almost 80-90% Slavic yDna haplogroups that the eyes are the darkest, and compare it to the surrounding areas. Unless you believe Albanians have lighter features than Slavs.

Then again, another issue rises. Did the Early South Slavs who belonged to I2a to guard the mountains while the R1a will take care of the lowlands? Seems like Early Slavs knew about genetics 15 centuries before us, or its simply an extreme coincidence that most of the I2a settled in Herzegovina?

Seems to me like they were being surrounded by incoming R1a.

But anyway, why I am wasting my time with the Albanian version of Kingslav.


The problem is that its not the small differences that create the complex of inferiority, it's the awareness of how others perceive them combined with a weak/childish personality which results in such people succumbing to the temptation of proving their worth to the people who despise them and don't even care about their arguments.

Such a waste of time and nerves if u ask me.

Many people hate us, so what?

They hate us for being mostly Muslim, so what? Our ancestors lived in a tough period where the Ottomans butchered us for 300 years, imposed high taxes, and sweetened the deal by allowing them to carry weapons and use horses if they convert. Case closed.

They hate us for spreading criminality in Europe or USA as if we are the only ones. Yeah we were screwed by the Western Powers having our lands given as gifts to our neighbours, then not supported by them in WW2 but rather given like trash to the Russians to do as they please, then following 45 years of harsh communist regime. What do you expect out of that, painters and ballerinas?

Long story short, this is who we r, a hot blooded nation with tendencies to violence trying to make our way to the top on our own at all costs and using all the methods we can.

Boasting in forums that we are Illyrians and E-V13, J2b2, R1b, etc. and that Serbs are newcomers won't change anything.

Im not one those snitches report. Dont call any my people trash. Any slavs, i havent attack you yet. You just had whiskey shot? What you said post above to me or fatherland make ZERO sense. Sounds like you slurring finish sentence.

 

[DuPidh]

Many Ukrainians are dark-haired, dark-eyed too. Your point is invalid. There is no such thing as a "pure Slav".

Not counting the women with dyed fake hair color or old people with grey hair(most of them were brunet too), but these people(Ukrainians) are mainly brunet:

Ukrainians

These are crowd-pictures so there is no cherrypicking.

I have not seen the Ukrainian y dna, but what I have seen randomly people from Ukraine they also show Mongolic features. I mean Yeltsin type of people are common even in Ukraine

 

[Kingslav]

I have not seen the Ukrainian y dna, but what I have seen randomly people from Ukraine they also show Mongolic features. I mean Yeltsin type of people are common even in Ukraine

East slavs for example Ukrainians and other Slavs mixed with Tatars (Turks) to a small degree. Tatars have drop of mongol admixture. I am showing very small 0.35% Mongol on wegene calculator.

 

[Garrick]

This sample is from the 900s, so 250-350 years after Slavic expansions in Poland. But the 900s is definitely long before any Vlach immigration to Poland. So I2a-Din was in Medieval Poland before any Vlachs.

Tomenable, big reputation. You gave situation in 900-1000 AD, several centuries after Slavic expansion. And how LeBrok said it is expected.

We speak all the time in which tribe I-CTS10228 could emerge after bottleneck 300 BC and we gave a lot of opportunities. What some people here don’t understand is emergence of Early Slavs. They mentioned in 6th century AD. Who wants search (proto) Slavs before 6 century AD he or she is in the very slippery terrain. There are a lot of hypothesis and many are rejected. On the other hand German, Celtic, Sarmatian, Thracian tribes are pretty much documented.

From today's knowledge the best candidate for emergence of I-CTS10228 after bottleneck, 300 BC, is German tribe Bastarnae. Bastarnae migrated to the south-east and about after start of new era they were on the border of Thracians (Getae-Dacians) and Sarmatians. They mixed with both populations and Thracians and Bastarnae themselves brought this haplogroup to the Balkans much before arrival of Slavs. Sarmatians could bring this haplogroup to the north-east.

For Bastarnae is similar conclusion in other genealogy forums what means consensus is seen for this very exciting investigation about this European haplogroup. Of course there are other possibilities, science has last words, we will see investigations haplogroups in the time about 300 BC and somewhat after.

Unfortunately big problem for investigation of DNA skeletons of Bastarnae is that because they cremated bodies in high temperatures (900 degree C).

 

[Bergin]

Tomenable, big reputation. You gave situation in 900-1000 AD, several centuries after Slavic expansion. And how LeBrok said it is expected.

We speak all the time in which tribe I-CTS10228 could emerge after bottleneck 300 BC and we gave a lot of opportunities. What some people here don’t understand is emergence of Early Slavs. They mentioned in 6th century AD. Who wants search (proto) Slavs before 6 century AD he or she is in the very slippery terrain. There are a lot of hypothesis and many are rejected. On the other hand German, Celtic, Sarmatian, Thracian tribes are pretty much documented.

From today's knowledge the best candidate for emergence of I-CTS10228 after bottleneck, 300 BC, is German tribe Bastarnae. Bastarnae migrated to the south-east and about after start of new era they were on the border of Thracians (Getae-Dacians) and Sarmatians. They mixed with both populations and Thracians and Bastarnae themselves brought this haplogroup to the Balkans much before arrival of Slavs. Sarmatians could bring this haplogroup to the north-east.

For Bastarnae is similar conclusion in other genealogy forums what means consensus is seen for this very exciting investigation about this European haplogroup. Of course there are other possibilities, science has last words, we will see investigations haplogroups in the time about 300 BC and somewhat after.

Unfortunately big problem for investigation of DNA skeletons of Bastarnae is that because they cremated bodies in high temperatures (900 degree C).

Garrick,
Your theory, even though it might sound logical, requires few layers of probing to become feasible.

1-Do realize that you will need genetic confirmation from the Bastarnae Y-DNA to link I2a-Din to them (your proposed origin).
2-You need proof of I2a-din among late Thracians (your proposed host).
3-You need proof of major Thraco - Bastarnae settlements/gene-pool in west balkans (your proposed vector).
4-You need proof of selective elimination of only Thracian haplogroups by the slavic expansion (your proposed clean start).


Maybe I am wrong but these four points are not proven.
(btw, I know very little of Bastarnae)

 

[LeBrok]

I just read tomenable hypothesis of I2A-DIN expansion on anthrogenica.com and he has I2A-DIN expanding from Belarussia? The Polesian swamp marshes is home of I2A-DIN according tomenable where I2A-DIN is rarely found but this is birth place I2A-Din according tomenable. He even draw a map for you of his false hypothesis for Albanians to "salivate" over. I will post the link shortly. I really didnt want do this to a Pole, how can you push this agenda of yours and empower Albanians reading in this forum to believe your "theory"? You are R1B. I2A-Din not your haplogroup. Western spys.

I don't want to do this to anyone but if you think you are on some kind of crusade against other ethnicities represented on Eupedia, you are on the wrong site. Don't demean any ethnicity, religion or nationality or their will be consequences till you change or you don't come here anymore.

 

[Garrick]

Garrick,
Your theory, even though it might sound logical, requires few layers of probing to become feasible.

1-Do realize that you will need genetic confirmation from the Bastarnae Y-DNA to link I2a-Din to them (your proposed origin).
2-You need proof of I2a-din among late Thracians (your proposed host).
3-You need proof of major Thraco - Bastarnae settlements/gene-pool in west balkans (your proposed vector).
4-You need proof of selective elimination of only Thracian haplogroups by the slavic expansion (your proposed clean start).


Maybe I am wrong but these four points are not proven.
(btw, I know very little of Bastarnae)

It is not my theory. You can read other genealogy forums, much before than in this thread. And here Sile introduced. We investigated different tribes.

There are alternatives. But German tribe Bastarnae give logic answer, and it is possible scenario.

If someone reads carefully there are four theories: Thracian, Illyrian, German and Slavic. And Illyrian theory is rejected as implausible. Is is not impossible that a fifth theory appear.

What is very likely that this haplogoup existed in genetic fund Thracians (Getae-Dacians) in today's Romania and Balkans before Slavic expansion in 6th century. If this is correct than Bastarnae theory gets in importance, they mixed with Thracians (and Sarmatians). Surely there will be investigations of YDNA for these periods and territories.

Even Bastarnae themselves three (documented) times entered deep into Balkans.

About Slavic theory, there are a lot of problems. One of problems is time period, which and where Slavs existed 300 BC. Objectively Slavs mentioned in 6th century AD. But of course we can see different cultures in Eastern Europe/Western Russia before 6 century AD. Unfortunately scientists have no consensus whether some of them could be proto-Slavic. It is very slippery terrain. Ethnogenesis of Slavs is very complex.

After all, judging, I-CTS10228 very hard can be originally Slavic marker, in sense that it emerged somewhere among Slavs 300 BC after bottleneck. It is not plausible. Of course, no one challenges its later expansion among the Slavs.

 

[LeBrok]

Summary of slav invasions and population replacement in South Balkans. Approximately beginning 500 AD.

There was no population replacement in Balkans during Slavic expansion. There was population addition. This is not an opinion but a fact written into genetics of Balkan people. We can see much bigger population addition in countries which speak Slavic languages and Romania, and much less addition in Greece and Albania.
Try to be less emotional and more rational.

 

[Bergin]

It is not my theory. You can read other genealogy forums, much before than in this thread. And here Sile introduced. We investigated different tribes.

There are alternatives. But German tribe Bastarnae give logic answer, and it is possible scenario.

If someone reads carefully there are four theories: Thracian, Illyrian, German and Slavic. And Illyrian theory is rejected as implausible. Is is not impossible that a fifth theory appear.

What is very likely that this haplogoup existed in genetic fund Thracians (Getae-Dacians) in today's Romania and Balkans before Slavic expansion in 6th century. If this is correct than Bastarnae theory gets in importance, they mixed with Thracians (and Sarmatians). Surely there will be investigations of YDNA for these periods and territories.

Even Bastarnae themselves three (documented) times entered deep into Balkans.

About Slavic theory, there are a lot of problems. One of problems is time period, which and where Slavs existed 300 BC. Objectively Slavs mentioned in 6th century AD. But of course we can see different cultures in Eastern Europe/Western Russia before 6 century AD. Unfortunately scientists have no consensus whether some of them could be proto-Slavic. It is very slippery terrain. Ethnogenesis of Slavs is very complex.

After all, judging, I-CTS10228 very hard can be originally Slavic marker, in sense that it emerged somewhere among Slavs 300 BC after bottleneck. It is not plausible, according time and geography. Of course, no one challenges its later expansion among the Slavs.

Garrick, I am neither pro or against your conjecture.

I am just saying that is pretty hard to confirm it with the actual state of the data, that is all.

Genetic claims require genetic facts,
which for the moment are lacking.

 

[Kingslav]

There was no population replacement in Balkans during Slavic expansion. There was population addition. This is not an opinion but a fact written into genetics of Balkan people. We can see much bigger population addition in countries which speak Slavic languages and Romania, and much less addition in Greece and Albania.
Try to be less emotional and more rational.

I agree 100% there was a population addition of Slavic genes into South Balkan people. And as you said this is not an opinion but a fact written into genetics of Balkan people. Do I agree there wasn't some kind of population replacement here? No. I don't agree with your comment. As was stated in Slav Migrations paper these were invasive expansions.

 

[Bergin]

There was no population replacement in Balkans during Slavic expansion. There was population addition. This is not an opinion but a fact written into genetics of Balkan people. We can see much bigger population addition in countries which speak Slavic languages and Romania, and much less addition in Greece and Albania.
Try to be less emotional and more rational.

LeBrok, would you mind explaining a bit more in detail, sounds pretty relevant.

 

[LeBrok]

LeBrok, would you mind explaining a bit more in detail, sounds pretty relevant.

It is shown in level of admixtures and genetic distances. For example, if Slavs expanded from Belarus or Ukraine and replaced all inhabitants of balkans, they new inhabitants of Balkans would look exactly like Belarusians or Ukrainians and plot exactly in the same place on PCA. As we know, it is not the case, therefore population replacement didn't happen. We also know that genomes of Balkan Slavs are not identical from Croatia to Bulgaria, therefore not pointing to South Slavs replacing all inhabitants of the area either.

 

[LeBrok]

I agree 100% there was a population addition of Slavic genes into South Balkan people. And as you said this is not an opinion but a fact written into genetics of Balkan people. Do I agree there wasn't some kind of population replacement here? No. I don't agree with your comment. As was stated in Slav Migratations paper these were invasive expansions.

Do you have a split personality syndrome or something? Both can't be right, unless you mean "substantial change of population" instead of replacement. Technically replacement should mean old population was gone and new population came to live.

 

[Bergin]

It is shown in level of admixtures and genetic distances. For example, if Slavs expanded from Belarus or Ukraine and replaced all inhabitants of balkans, they new inhabitants of Balkans would look exactly like Belarusians or Ukrainians and plot exactly in the same place on PCA. As we know, it is not the case, therefore population replacement didn't happen. We also know that genomes of Balkan Slavs are not identical from Croatia to Bulgaria, therefore not pointing to South Slavs replacing all inhabitants of the area either.

I see, makes sense.
Just how can one exclude first replacement and secondly mixture with the neighbors?
So is it a common assumption that the PCA of the balkan has been only weakly perturbed in the last millenia?

 

[Kingslav]

Tomenable, big reputation. You gave situation in 900-1000 AD, several centuries after Slavic expansion. And how LeBrok said it is expected.

We speak all the time in which tribe I-CTS10228 could emerge after bottleneck 300 BC and we gave a lot of opportunities. What some people here don’t understand is emergence of Early Slavs. They mentioned in 6th century AD. Who wants search (proto) Slavs before 6 century AD he or she is in the very slippery terrain. There are a lot of hypothesis and many are rejected. On the other hand German, Celtic, Sarmatian, Thracian tribes are pretty much documented.

From today's knowledge the best candidate for emergence of I-CTS10228 after bottleneck, 300 BC, is German tribe Bastarnae. Bastarnae migrated to the south-east and about after start of new era they were on the border of Thracians (Getae-Dacians) and Sarmatians. They mixed with both populations and Thracians and Bastarnae themselves brought this haplogroup to the Balkans much before arrival of Slavs. Sarmatians could bring this haplogroup to the north-east.

For Bastarnae is similar conclusion in other genealogy forums what means consensus is seen for this very exciting investigation about this European haplogroup. Of course there are other possibilities, science has last words, we will see investigations haplogroups in the time about 300 BC and somewhat after.

Unfortunately big problem for investigation of DNA skeletons of Bastarnae is that because they cremated bodies in high temperatures (900 degree C).

What Lebrok said is expected. He is correct I agree with Garrick and Lebrok. Slavic expansions happened East-West-South. Ofcourse there is population replacement in Poland from ancient times. What needs to be understood by outsiders, Poland was not always where it is located now. There was event "WW2" displaced many Poles from their original conquered territory of 17th Century Polish Commonwealth, I am talking about places like Western Ukraine, Northern Romania, Moldova, Belarus, Lithuania, Latvia, etc all belong to Poland where Poles and others lived and thrived for centuries in all these places I have listed. This was Polish homeland. In late 18th century Poland was ripped apart literally by new powers Russia, Austro-Hungary, Prussia. My ancestors didn't move anywhere despite this new government, they remained in same place even through changed borders remained and kept the "Polish Tradition" even after they technically didn't have our own homeland until 1918 for over 100 years.

Garrick, Tomenable big reputation? His theory is faulty with I2A-DIN expanding from Polesian swamp marshes in Belarus. I might have misunderstood your statement so correct me if I am wrong, what does reputation have to do with reality, or in correct terms to this discussion the expansion of I2A-DIN? If you decide to dive into these forums you should know exactly what is being discussed and not just throw around misleading hypothesis because this is curving discussion in wrong direction, not mention offended to people of this genetic by throwing out there unfounded statements. I mean you will not see me on the R1B thread talking about hypothesis because that is not my cup of tea. My goal is not intimidate anyone on here, everyone has right voice opinion on here to help contribute the missing puzzle pieces of this elaborate genetics discussion we are having. All I'm saying is post with some care. Meaning talk about things you know about. And don't spam. Any knowledge is welcome and sure there will be disagreements as comes with this territory but we can make effort to be civil about instead of constant spamming.

Garrick, my next point is yes you are right Slavs emerged as a known group around 500 AD. In a historical writings context. At this point in time they had entire army that ravaged Balkans. These Slavs had been interbreeding for centuries prior to 500 AD, it takes generations to create army of humans. I really don't want joke Slavs were not poofed out of magic in 500 AD nor were they dropped from mysterious UFO at approximate location of Danube lol. They were in these areas long time before that and existed, lived and yes we Slavs as you Garrick have done excellent job explaining with references are some sort combination of the groups living around the Black Sea ( Thracians, Sarmatians, Bastarnae, etc ) what is exact combination? I don't know but I certainly can narrow down to certain groups that we are and I can weed out the the groups the we definitely aren't. Some proof can be found on gedmatch calculators when you look at my sample or any other strong Modern East European samples. Now, I have reason to believe some of the things about I2A-DIN due to the research and it simply being my own haplogroup which I have studied. I want to thank Garrick for your extensive posts about Bastarnae tribe. You have opened my eyes to some knowledge about this tribe helping put more pieces of puzzle together that's what we all here for I mean most of us lol. I must admit you are putting far too much interest issues like TMRCA, Slavs not being recorded in history until 6th Century being slippery terrain, I will say again Garrick we are mix of these tribes and these tribes are somewhat Slavic in ancient perspective. Slavs didn't show up with entire army in 500 AD, we were interbreeding for centuries and your always discussing this 2300 years old theory of I2A-DIN which we need to remember is still a "theory" not a solid proof yet. Even we take this theory for truth it makes sense with migrations of Sarmatians, Scythians around exact time of 2300 years that I2A-DIN emerged.

 

[Kingslav]

Do you have a split personality syndrome or something? Both can't be right, unless you mean "substantial change of population" instead of replacement. Technically replacement should mean old population was gone and new population came to live.

I dont have anything you mention in post above. I was trying to use less demeaning word choice and not be offensive. But you made me do it with this post so now I must clarify. There was partial replacement of Balkans population. This is evident in modern South-Balkanite showing Slavic DNA and yes this includes Albanians and to slightly less extent even Greeks. Modern Balkanites show Slavic DNA. They were conquered by Slavs to their dislike. Case closed. There was a "replacement", this wasnt friendly gathering of Slavs like you making seem, this was war that consequenced with partial population replacement. You twisted my words and then accused me of brain condition.

 

[Garrick]

What Lebrok said is expected. He is correct I agree with Garrick and Lebrok. Slavic expansions happened East-West-South. Ofcourse there is population replacement in Poland from ancient times. What needs to be understood by outsiders, Poland was not always where it is located now. There was event "WW2" displaced many Poles from their original conquered territory of 17th Century Polish Commonwealth, I am talking about places like Western Ukraine, Northern Romania, Moldova, Belarus, Lithuania, Latvia, etc all belong to Poland where Poles and others lived and thrived for centuries in all these places I have listed. This was Polish homeland. In late 18th century Poland was ripped apart literally by new powers Russia, Austro-Hungary, Prussia. My ancestors didn't move anywhere despite this new government, they remained in same place even through changed borders remained and kept the "Polish Tradition" even after they technically didn't have our own homeland until 1918 for over 100 years.

Garrick, Tomenable big reputation? His theory is faulty with I2A-DIN expanding from Polesian swamp marshes in Belarus. I might have misunderstood your statement so correct me if I am wrong, what does reputation have to do with reality, or in correct terms to this discussion the expansion of I2A-DIN? If you decide to dive into these forums you should know exactly what is being discussed and not just throw around misleading hypothesis because this is curving discussion in wrong direction, not mention offended to people of this genetic by throwing out there unfounded statements. I mean you will not see me on the R1B thread talking about hypothesis because that is not my cup of tea. My goal is not intimidate anyone on here, everyone has right voice opinion on here to help contribute the missing puzzle pieces of this elaborate genetics discussion we are having. All I'm saying is post with some care. Meaning talk about things you know about. And don't spam. Any knowledge is welcome and sure there will be disagreements as comes with this territory but we can make effort to be civil about instead of constant spamming.

Garrick, my next point is yes you are right Slavs emerged as a known group around 500 AD. In a historical writings context. At this point in time they had entire army that ravaged Balkans. These Slavs had been interbreeding for centuries prior to 500 AD, it takes generations to create army of humans. I really don't want joke Slavs were not poofed out of magic in 500 AD nor were they dropped from mysterious UFO at approximate location of Danube lol. They were in these areas long time before that and existed, lived and yes we Slavs as you Garrick have done excellent job explaining with references are some sort combination of the groups living around the Black Sea ( Thracians, Sarmatians, Bastarnae, etc ) what is exact combination? I don't know but I certainly can narrow down to certain groups that we are and I can weed out the the groups the we definitely aren't. Some proof can be found on gedmatch calculators when you look at my sample or any other strong Modern East European samples. Now, I have reason to believe some of the things about I2A-DIN due to the research and it simply being my own haplogroup which I have studied. I want to thank Garrick for your extensive posts about Bastarnae tribe. You have opened my eyes to some knowledge about this tribe helping put more pieces of puzzle together that's what we all here for I mean most of us lol. I must admit you are putting far too much interest issues like TMRCA, Slavs not being recorded in history until 6th Century being slippery terrain, I will say again Garrick we are mix of these tribes and these tribes are somewhat Slavic in ancient perspective. Slavs didn't show up with entire army in 500 AD, we were interbreeding for centuries and your always discussing this 2300 years old theory of I2A-DIN which we need to remember is still a "theory" not a solid proof yet. Even we take this theory for truth it makes sense with migrations of Sarmatians, Scythians around exact time of 2300 years that I2A-DIN emerged.

Kingslav
I gave him reputation because he refreshed the thread with new data, always appreciate when someone put something useful.

Nobody mentioned his theory about Polesia. Yes I read it. And I read more different scenarios, for example one of them I-CTS10228 or his older clades moved from Scotland via Sweden, via Baltic shore till Polesia. Somewhere (Sweden?) I-CTS10228 emerged. Etc.

Here we discussed another scenario, and I think it is more plausible. But it is good that more assumptions exist, people can see different views about this exciting life of haplogoup which moved from Western Europe or Northern Europe (Scandinavia) toward East, barely survived in longer period and after bottleneck emerged and quickly spread. It is story about destiny and human survival and expansion.

About ethnogenesis of Slavs I wrote that it is very complex issue, a lot of scientists from many sciences tried to put together a piece of the truth, and there are many different views and theories, some of them are mutualy exclusive. Some discutants here, unfortunately, don't know about matter, and try to spam or stifle thread, some of them mention aliens or wonder how many of the Slavs suddenly got out of nowhere, it is completely unnecessary and useless (if they think will have some benefit, no). But it is linked with politics what I would not about it therefore I try turn such intentions in fun.

Here in Eupedia there are some threads about Slavs but definitely it is time that someone open new thread, but seriously, to be very good prepared and know subject. Unfortunately some Slavs lead trivial discussions and went nowhere. There is another approach, more easy, opening thread based on some scientific paper about Slavs, this can be incentive to develop an interesting discussion, but only if members are constructive, if strong destruction emerge, the thread will go wrong.

 

[LeBrok]

I dont have anything you mention in post above. I was trying to use less demeaning word choice and not be offensive. But you made me do it with this post so now I must clarify. There was partial replacement of Balkans population. This is evident in modern South-Balkanite showing Slavic DNA and yes this includes Albanians and to slightly less extent even Greeks. Modern Balkanites show Slavic DNA. They were conquered by Slavs to their dislike. Case closed. There was a "replacement", this wasnt friendly gathering of Slavs like you making seem, this was war that consequenced with partial population replacement. You twisted my words and then accused me of brain condition.

I have a feeling that your choice of terms describing Slavic expansion is meant to show some form of Slavic dominance and superiority. And I don't mean way back but in your heart and head now. It never leads to right conclusions and civil discussion.

 

[Kingslav]

I have a feeling that your choice of terms describing Slavic expansion is meant to show some form of Slavic dominance and superiority. And I don't mean way back but in your heart and head now. It never leads to right conclusions and civil discussion.

Slavic superiority no I don't believe in such thing I am not Hitler to be speaking of "Master-Races" as no such thing exists. "Dominance", yes now we are talking. With over 360 million people strong, Slavs are the largest ethnic-linguistic group in all of Europe showing a certain "Dominance" in this region of the world. This is all facts that you are clearly not amused by. However, this is your problem not mine.