I2a-Din came to the Balkans and Dinaric Alps with the Thracians, Dacians & Illyrians

Garrick said:
Never emphasized that I-PH908 is of Serbian origin nor thought about it. What I wrote that I-CTS10228 can be possible Bastarnae origin. And I remember that we had polemics that it could be Thracian, but there are reasons why Bastarnae can be a strong candidate.
Click to expand...

What you write is the same nonsense which can be found at Serbian DNA Project (here by member Shetop, #442 at "Sarmatians, Serbs, Croats and I2a2") - no mention of White Croats, although are listed tribes who lived in the same territory as them, while making a ridiculous connection with Bastarnae and Celtic tribe Boii which related to the DAI connection of the White Serbia to the land of Boiki, regardless of ambiguity of the term Boiki, the same DAI you dismiss regarding the origin of Croats, the same chapters on Croats in DAI on which was based chapter on Serbs. If anything, it is really fascinating that people like you from Serbia use the account about White Serbia, yet ignore that the people who are really related to this mythical land, Sorbs, have about 65% R1a and almost no I2a-M423.

Garrick said:
Citated Kronsteirn in context. Not spoke that his words are ultimate truth. But it is true that he is scientist, it is not disputable...
Click to expand...

Your argumentation is basically "they are foreign and respectable scientists from institute hence have bigger authority", nevertheless they are not an even significant minority, nevertheless the criticism of their consideration, nevertheless they are not only scientists who have some kind of consideration regarding the subject, as if being scientist is exclusive to this handful of people. It is just a minority opinion considered by scientists you can number on fingers of one hand, yet you use in a way it is a legitimate and mainstream conclusion to negate Croatian ethnic origin or historical migration. The opinion itself is not even revolutionary, it is at least from the 1970s. No wonder that Borri was supervised by Pohl when he has a social interpretation of history - differently said, it is part of the Marxism influence on historiography which emphasized social rather than the ethnic viewpoint of history.
 
Garrick said:
It is very interesting, but one mistake what doesn't matter.

Dalmatians = Romanized Illyrians (language Dalmatian, belongs to Italo-Dalmatian)

Istrians = Italic people (language Venetian, belongs to...? thoughts are divided Gallo-Italic, Italo-Dalmatian or solo group)

Where are descendants of Liburnians?
...

Croati = Croats (Hrvati)

No Malocchi, but Morlachus or Murlacus what is from Greek Μαυροβλάχοι, Morlacus = Vlachs (Aromunians), nothing to do neither Serbian nor Albanian (Gjuha Sqipe), maybe Malocchi is mistake or too distorded Greek word.

But I know what you wanted to say, later someone abusively Serbs called Morlachus (Morlaci).

Narentines were unbaptized Serbs (Srbi), Greeks called them Poganoi (pagans).

Objectively we cannot say that continuity existed because arrival of Slavs but it was not completly discontinuity because change of population was not fast, it was very slow process.

Therefore we can say about partial continuity.

By the way what happened with Liburnians, were they speak Dalmatian, Venetian or some other Italo-Romance language.
Click to expand...

Morlachs came from central or southern Balkans in early 14th century in northern Dalmatia.
In late 15th century they migrated to the Kvarner and Istria, in Istria they were known as Ćići (Istro-Romanians).
Majority of them are croatized, today there is only few Istro-Romanian and only about 20 people speak Istro-Romanian language.

Istriots were native Romance people of Istria and they are unrelated with Istro-Romanians (Ćići).
Istriot language belong to Italic branch of Romance languages and Istro-Romanian language is branch of eastern Romance language as Romanian and Aromanian.
 
Miroslav said:
The actual word is Morlacchi in Italian, Morlaci in Croatian and Serbian, Morlachs in English. Although initially it did, later including the source, has nothing to do with ethnogenesis as with political misinterpretation of the factual reality on the field. Do not open the pandora's box.
Click to expand...
You are correct , that it the word once I rechecked my information.................Venice used it only for the serbs and also for the serb kingdom of Zeta in modern Montenegro



there where some who thought the morlacchi where the bosnians
 
Garrick said:
It is very interesting, but one mistake what doesn't matter.
Dalmatians = Romanized Illyrians (language Dalmatian, belongs to Italo-Dalmatian)
Istrians = Italic people (language Venetian, belongs to...? thoughts are divided Gallo-Italic, Italo-Dalmatian or solo group)
Where are descendants of Liburnians?
...
Croati = Croats (Hrvati)
No Malocchi, but Morlachus or Murlacus what is from Greek Μαυροβλάχοι, Morlacus = Vlachs (Aromunians), nothing to do neither Serbian nor Albanian (Gjuha Sqipe), maybe Malocchi is mistake or too distorded Greek word.
But I know what you wanted to say, later someone abusively Serbs called Morlachus (Morlaci).
Narentines were unbaptized Serbs (Srbi), Greeks called them Poganoi (pagans).
Objectively we cannot say that continuity existed because arrival of Slavs but it was not completly discontinuity because change of population was not fast, it was very slow process.
Therefore we can say about partial continuity.
By the way what happened with Liburnians, were they speak Dalmatian, Venetian or some other Italo-Romance language.
Click to expand...
After Rome fell, the dalmatians where illyrian plus latin in language ..............later it became italo-dalmatian.
..
Unsure if liburnians became istrians , dalmatians or became the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uskoks
 
Last edited:
Some people think taht I2a is conected with Vlachs, but it is just stereotype, I2a have nothing to do with Vlachs and Alanians.

Vlachs are predominantloy R1b and J2b2 and Albanians are E-V13 and J2b2.

I2a among Vlachs and Albanians is Slavic influence.
 
Sile said:
I never said about Uskok language
Click to expand...

In the time of Uskoks (16th and 17th century) there was no Romance speakers in Dalmatia except in few islands.

Romance language in Dubrovnik dissapeared in 15th century.
 
In some Albanian chronicles, during the Ottoman Empire, Serbs and other Slavs are mentioned as Croats.
 
Sile said:
You are correct , that it the word once I rechecked my information.................Venice used it only for the serbs and also for the serb kingdom of Zeta in modern Montenegro there where some who thought the morlacchi where the bosnians
Click to expand...

The catholic "Morlacks" or Vlachs could not have been Serbs for the simple reason – they were catholics. In Dubrovnik, the term "posbliti" (to serbify) had a meaning to convert one to Serbian Orthodox faith.

Many of those people were already Orthodox when appeared in the Venice controlled territory. They arrived with their Serbian priests who were often their spokesmen. And, sometimes, all what Venetians knew about them, came from the mouths of these priests.

On the other hand, the Turkish sources of the same period call all these people just Croats ("Hırvat").
 
Last edited:
Sile said:
After Rome fell, the dalmatians where illyrian plus latin in language ..............later it became italo-dalmatian.
..
Unsure if liburnians became istrians , dalmatians or became the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uskoks
Click to expand...

The word “uskok” in Croatian means literarily “the one who jumped in”. The name was given to those who were often crossing military borders (jumped into the enemy’s territory). Over time it also became an ethnonyme (with a capital letter).

This only shows how much trust we should put in western sources when dealing with ethnicities of Dalmatia.
 
LABERIA said:
In some Albanian chronicles, during the Ottoman Empire, Serbs and other Slavs are mentioned as Croats.
Click to expand...

That's interesting to me, so if you have concrete data link etc...I would be grateful.
 
Bachus said:
Some people think taht I2a is conected with Vlachs, but it is just stereotype, I2a have nothing to do with Vlachs and Alanians.

Vlachs are predominantloy R1b and J2b2 and Albanians are E-V13 and J2b2.

I2a among Vlachs and Albanians is Slavic influence.
Click to expand...

I2a in seventh century comes to Greece, Bulgaria, Albania, Macedonia. He lives there for about 900 years and then when comes Turks that I2a comes to Croatia, Bosnia, etc with Vlachs name, therefore I2a with southeast European branches are and Vlach origin, and originally were majority of them of White Croatian origin. I2a with mutation I-S17250. From these directions usually come I2a Dinaric-N types.[h=3][/h][h=3][/h]
 
hrvat22 said:
I2a in seventh century comes to Greece, Bulgaria, Albania, Macedonia. He lives there for about 900 years and then when comes Turks that I2a comes to Croatia, Bosnia, etc with Vlachs name, therefore I2a with southeast European branches are and Vlach origin, and originally were majority of them of White Croatian origin. I2a with mutation I-S17250. From these directions usually come I2a Dinaric-N types.
Click to expand...

If I2a came to Croatia/BiH with Vlachs then 37% of Croats in Croatia and 71% Croats from BiH are Vlachs which came with Turks, good point. (y)
 
Bachus said:
If I2a came to Croatia/BiH with Vlachs then 37% of Croats in Croatia and 71% Croats from BiH are Vlachs which came with Turks, good point. (y)
Click to expand...

You may not understand in genetics, types I2a that exist in Greece, Bulgaria, Albania, Macedonia..not I2a.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

This thread has been viewed 572021 times.

Back
Top