I2a-Din came to the Balkans and Dinaric Alps with the Thracians, Dacians & Illyrians

[LABERIA]

Again you destroy History,

typical for you,

you Forgot the Orlov's revolt
you forgot everything
and just pass me a lie as truth

the truth for that is this
the plan that you mention is from French comissioner at Eptanisa Ντονζελώ Francois xavier Donzelot
who promised a state of Greeks and Albanians to Farmakis and Kolokotronis
in fact he managed to gather armatoloi to fight for Francais in Croatia
against other armatoloi who fought for Russia.


but the reply of Kolokotronis was this and based on expereince by Orlov's and Russia

what I have to do with Bonaparts.
once we are baptised with water
once we are baptised with blood
once we are baptised with liberation of country
if they want to liberate my country
we will find 5 and 10 000
but to fight for them? we can't

(yet some armatoloi went to Napoli Croatia Egypt)

and declined

Besides
that plan of Francais empire (Napoleon) is nothing comparing Ρηγας Φερραιος and Φιλλικη Εταιρεια.

So again you tell us nothing,

as for my fairytales or folktales
read Kasomoulis


KASOMOYLIS IS THE STRONGEST HISTORIAN OF 1821 REVOLT

I guess you did not even know who is my flag and who is my avatar


and I suggest to read this

https://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/Μακελειό_της_Αρβανιτιάς


I suggest read post # 957

Yetos, you have this incredible capacity to turn the thread in a total mess full with BS. I told you, open a new thread and explain this your folktales. Now please stop quoting me because this discussion is of topic.

 

[Yetos]

the one who boom the thread is you with this

Some discussions here, remember me more and more the famous pseudo-scientific theories of the Serb "scholars". Exist an "school" in Serbia who produce this kind of theories. The most famous "scholar", is this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jovan_I._Deretić
Probably, soon we will read how Dorians and Spartans were serbs, Thracians were serbs but ancient greeks had difficulty with the ancient name of the serbs Ras and for this reason called this people Thrax, the Roman Emperor Maximus Trax was a serb, etc. This are very famous theories in today Serbia.

I only answer that the same thing you do in most of the threads of Forum
same way you act years now claiming that Epiros was never Greek

and you ask me about your signature,
and I answer your imagination who lives in the lie


you have the ability to pass a lie as a truth,
but when truth comes on surface
you only accuse others that boom the place

 

[DuPidh]

The oldest written people known as Illyrians came from east-austria , pannonia, ............everyone knows they had G2a and I2a markers

these bronze-age illyrians moved slowly in a north-east direction form modern Vienna to be involved in the bronze age amber trail trade . this I2a also went into Italy, croatia, Bosnia etc...................and yes , the celts absorbed the illyrians in austria from ~700BC and continued to absorb them into celtic society as far south as northern Serbia ( you should know from there the celts failed in their invasion of Greece ).................the slavs would have absorbed "illyrian" markers because they absorbed illyrian-celts

Not all of one haplogroup belongs to one people .................so what I2a do you refer to as certain subclades belong to different areas ................I also hope you are not one of these people that think R1a is only a slavic marker

Take the case of Finish. They have considerable amounts of I1. But they have even more Mongolic. Their ancesry tests show their links with both populations. Their tests show certain percentage east Asian ancestry. Had I2a been Gothic or Celtic today Croats or Bosnians, who have more than half of their male lineages I2a, should have shown a large percentage of their genes as western European origin. Instead in average the genes of this countries show eastern European the largest amount and the rest Southern European, and East Asian. Negligibly amounts of Western European where French and Germans are included. So in Case of Bosnia where 70% of males are I2a the western ancestry should have been at amounts of at least 50% western European. Instead as you know is Estern, which means I2a people of Bosnia were carrying Eastern genes. So the discussion that I2a is not Slavic is waste of time

 

[LABERIA]

the one who boom the thread is you with this




I only answer that the same thing you do in most of the threads of Forum
same way you act years now claiming that Epiros was never Greek

and you ask me about your signature,
and I answer your imagination who lives in the lie


you have the ability to pass a lie as a truth,
but when truth comes on surface
you only accuse others that boom the place

Thank you for proving that you derailed this thread.
Again i want repeat, if you have something to discuss not related to this thread, open a new thread.
There you can explain all the folktales about your family and other. If you think that one of my posts is not correct you can explain why, but not here. Going around in forum like a zombie and accusing the others without proves it is not correct, it's not normal.
If you don't want to open a new thread you can use this thread:
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread.../page27?p=471131&highlight=Kandari#post471131

 

[Yetos]

Thank you for proving that you derailed this thread.
Again i want repeat, if you have something to discuss not related to this thread, open a new thread.
There you can explain all the folktales about your family and other. If you think that one of my posts is not correct you can explain why, but not here. Going around in forum like a zombie and accusing the others without proves it is not correct, it's not normal.

and again I repeat
you bomb the thread with your post # 949 as many other
as a zombie and you keep say to us that Epirus was never Greek but Albanian
and King Pyrros was Albanian

and you keep provide lies as truth.

YOU WANT TO HAVE LAST WORD,
OK next post is yours,
if that satisfies you,

And no I have other works to do than dicuss with a false history as you provide it.


written by the father of Kolokotronis

Το γράμμα σας το ελάβαμε και σας γράφομεν και ημεῖς ότι ποτέ δεν είχαμεν σκοπὸ για να ανταμωθῶμεν με τους Τούρκους, διότι και αυτοὺς τους θεωρούμεν κακοὺς εχθρούς μας, και νάρθουμε να σας χτυπήσουμε. Τα θέλατε εσείς, γιατί από τον καιρό που γίνηκε το σεφέρι [σήμ: η επανάσταση] το Μάρτι το έτος 1769 και εμβήκατε στο Μωριὰ για να βοηθήσετε τους Τούρκους και να χτυπήσετε εμάς τους Μοραΐτες, δέκα χρόνια γένουνται από καιρὸ εκείνον έως σήμερα, πού μας ετυρρανίσατε, μας εγδύσατε εσκοτώσατε τους πατέρες μας, τις μητέρες μας, τα αδέρφια μας, τις γυναίκες μας, τα παιδιά μας, τους συγγενείς και τους πατριώτες μας. Και μας κάματε τέτοια πολλὰ κακὰ που εμείς δεν μπορούμε πλιὰ να σας χωνεύουμε και ούτε να σας συγχωρήσομε, για δαυτὸ μαζωχθήκαμε ούλοι δω πέρα να σας χτυπήσομε και με τη δύναμη του θεού -αν μπορέσωμε- να σας διώξωμε πλιὰ απ' το Μωριά. Αν εσείς θέλετε για να πολεμήσουμε και να σκοτωθούμε, εμείς σας συγχωρούμε για όλα τα χάλια πού μας εκάματε, και ελάτε μερικοί απὸ όλους σας να μας φέρτε τα άρματα σας, και να μας δώσετε όσα χρήματα έχετε στα κιμέρια σας πού τα μαζώξατε απὸ τους πατριώτες μας, και ύστερα να σας στείλουμε με μεγάλο σιγουρητὸ στην πατρίδα σας. Ελάτε και σας καρτεροῦμε, γιατί πάν' κεῖνα που ξέρατε. Ἐλᾶτε το ταχύ, ἀλλοιῶς θα το μετανοήσετε.

Από Τρίκορφα 10 Ιουλίου έτος 1779

Με την συμφωνία απὸ όλους τους κλέφτες και τους αρματολοὺς του Μωριά, υπογράφουμε εμείς οι πρώτοι αρχηγοί,

Κωνσταντίνος Κολοκοτρώνης και " Αλέξης Δάρας "




​

 

[LABERIA]

and again I repeat
you bomb the thread with your post # 949 as many other
as a zombie and you keep say to us that Epirus was never Greek but Albanian
and King Pyrros was Albanian

and you keep provide lies as truth.

YOU WANT TO HAVE LAST WORD,
OK next post is yours,
if that satisfies you,

And no I have other works to do than dicuss with a false history as you provide it.

If you think that my post was bomb, here there are mods and they can decide about this. You are not a moderator. You have no right to attack me or to discuss in this thread about Epir. You have the right to report to the mods this post # 949 and later it's their duty to decide. But you can not bring here in this thread the discussion about Epir. There are other threads where you can discuss about all this.

 

[Yetos]

well I have same rights as you do

we are equal

and with the same way you post this

Some discussions here, remember me more and more the famous pseudo-scientific theories of the Serb "scholars". Exist an "school" in Serbia who produce this kind of theories. The most famous "scholar", is this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jovan_I._Deretić
Probably, soon we will read how Dorians and Spartans were serbs, Thracians were serbs but ancient greeks had difficulty with the ancient name of the serbs Ras and for this reason called this people Thrax, the Roman Emperor Maximus Trax was a serb, etc. This are very famous theories in today Serbia.

I say that you personally, I have no difference in rights
cause if Serbian 'strange theories' claim Spartans as Serbs, which is stupid
SAME WAY YOU CLAIM KING PYRROS AND EPIRUS AS ALBANIAN which is the same degree stupidity.
same strange theories as you say, Serbs have, you also carry

No I am not going to discuss your strange theories.

 

[LABERIA]

well I have same rights as you do

we are equal

and with the same way you post this



I say that you personally, I have no difference in rights
cause if Serbian 'strange theories' claim Spartans as Serbs, which is stupid
SAME WAY YOU CLAIM KING PYRROS AND EPIRUS AS ALBANIAN which is the same degree stupidity.
same strange theories as you say, Serbs have, you also carry

No I am not going to discuss your strange theories.

But this thread is not dedicated to your revenge against me about Epir. Do you understand that this thread is not about Epir? There are other threads where you can explain your point of view, always supported by credible sources. Because your posts are only unfounded personal opinions without a source or a link. Now please stop quoting me if this is possible.

 

[Garrick]

So in Case of Bosnia where 70% of males are I2a the western ancestry should have been at amounts of at least 50% western European. Instead as you know is Estern, which means I2a people of Bosnia were carrying Eastern genes. So the discussion that I2a is not Slavic is waste of time

Everyone can see this chart.

I2a-Din has peak in Herzegovina and East-European admixture there is very low.

In most parts of Serbia, Croatia and northern Bosnia East European admixture is similar as Eastern Germany, Eastern Austria, Hungary and Romania and much smaller than in Eastern Poland, Balarus or Western Russia. Maciamo wrote: "Note the resemblance with the distribution of Y-DNA haplogroup R1a.."

 

[Azzurro]

There is another possibility that I think could be the I2a-CTS10228's ancestor, and its the Scordisci Celts, they almost match the TMRCA of I2a-CTS10228 and settled throughout the entire Balkans, minus Greece and Albania (which could be a problem because of I-A2512, however a branch could of ended up in Greece).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scordisci

This makes more sense than a Germanic origin, as the characteristic Germanic I haplogroup is I1, so indeed a Celtic line. In my opinion the ancestor of I2-CTS10228 is either a Scordisci Celt or a Scytho-Gatae.

 

[DuPidh]

Everyone can see this chart.

I2a-Din has peak in Herzegovina and East-European admixture there is very low.

In most parts of Serbia, Croatia and northern Bosnia East European admixture is similar as Eastern Germany, Eastern Austria, Hungary and Romania and much smaller than in Eastern Poland, Balarus or Western Russia. Maciamo wrote: "Note the resemblance with the distribution of Y-DNA haplogroup R1a.."

So if I2a was Celt or German origin Bosnians with the highest I2a in the world should have been averaged at least in North western European admixture. As this map shows they have none. No connections whatsoever. Conclusion; I2a was brought en mass in the Balkans by Slavs. Clearly a slavic marker.

 

[Leka]

There is another possibility that I think could be the I2a-CTS10228's ancestor, and its the Scordisci Celts, they almost match the TMRCA of I2a-CTS10228 and settled throughout the entire Balkans, minus Greece and Albania (which could be a problem because of I-A2512, however a branch could of ended up in Greece).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scordisci

This makes more sense than a Germanic origin, as the characteristic Germanic I haplogroup is I1, so indeed a Celtic line. In my opinion the ancestor of I2-CTS10228 is either a Scordisci Celt or a Scytho-Gatae.

When CTS10228 just merely started expanding Scordisci were well established as a tribe. Also you would have to explain to us how a minor hybrid Celtic and Illyrian tribe got to Belarusia, Russia, Ukrain and Poland and also at the same time successfully spread all over Balkans.

 

[doku]

So if I2a was Celt or German origin Bosnians with the highest I2a in the world should have been averaged at least in North western European admixture. As this map shows they have none. No connections whatsoever. Conclusion; I2a was brought en mass in the Balkans by Slavs. Clearly a slavic marker.

On the dodecad project, the Bosnian have average 20-30% NW Europe, E Europe 20-30%, the Mediterranean 20-30% West Asia 10-20%.

 

[Garrick]

So if I2a was Celt or German origin Bosnians with the highest I2a in the world should have been averaged at least in North western European admixture. As this map shows they have none. No connections whatsoever. Conclusion; I2a was brought en mass in the Balkans by Slavs. Clearly a slavic marker.

No. Your conclusion is completely wrong. You can read admixtures of nations, you are confuse.

And it will not help you to show that I-CTS10228 emerged among Slavs who didn't exist in upper Vistula area 300 BC.

Back to topic.

 

[Azzurro]

When CTS10228 just merely started expanding Scordisci were well established as a tribe. Also you would have to explain to us how a minor hybrid Celtic and Illyrian tribe got to Belarusia, Russia, Ukrain and Poland and also at the same time successfully spread all over Balkans.

I think the ancestor or CTS10228 itself was a Scordisci or Scytho-Gatae line, it's downstreams became Slavic afterwards, such as I-PH908 and I-S17250 are Slavic and were part of the expansion, it would make I-CTS10228 a proto Slavic marker and its downstreams would thus majorly become Slavic.

 

[Garrick]

I think the ancestor or CTS10228 itself was a Scordisci or Scytho-Gatae line, it's downstreams became Slavic afterwards, such as I-PH908 and I-S17250 are Slavic and were part of the expansion, it would make I-CTS10228 a proto Slavic marker and its downstreams would thus majorly become Slavic.

Azzuro
Several people here in Eupedia and other forums thought about Scordisci but they were not in upper/middle Vistula area.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scordisci

Also they were smaller tribe than Bastarnae, some scientists due to size for Bastarnae say they were not tribe but people(nation).

 

[DuPidh]

On the dodecad project, the Bosnian have average 20-30% NW Europe, E Europe 20-30%, the Mediterranean 20-30% West Asia 10-20%.

On Ancestry Bosnian's score above 65% Eastern European. The rest is Southern European and other minor lineages. Clearly the map has Garric introduced has major mistakes but I did accept it since was from the same source I got mine.

 

[DuPidh]

No. Your conclusion is completely wrong. You can read admixtures of nations, you are confuse.

And it will not help you to show that I-CTS10228 emerged among Slavs who didn't exist in upper Vistula area 300 BC.

Back to topic.

Common sense! I2a people traveled with their women. It was not males only. It means if there are 50% I2a men in Bosnia who came let say From a German tribe, with them traveled almost as many females of the same ethnicity .So the population should have a significant amount of genes of that tribe. Bosnian's in our case don't. So that means they come from where most of their genes are. And most are from East, as I said your map is profoundly wrong. the real figure is 65%

 

[Sile]

So if I2a was Celt or German origin Bosnians with the highest I2a in the world should have been averaged at least in North western European admixture. As this map shows they have none. No connections whatsoever. Conclusion; I2a was brought en mass in the Balkans by Slavs. Clearly a slavic marker.

wrong again, the marker arrived in the balkans long before the slavs arrived 1000 years later................

 

[Sile]

I think the ancestor or CTS10228 itself was a Scordisci or Scytho-Gatae line, it's downstreams became Slavic afterwards, such as I-PH908 and I-S17250 are Slavic and were part of the expansion, it would make I-CTS10228 a proto Slavic marker and its downstreams would thus majorly become Slavic.

Do you really believe it is a celtic marker?

https://www.academia.edu/31354293/T...ements_and_Fortifications_on_the_Lower_Danube