• Don't want to see ads? Install an adblocker like uBlock Origin or use a Europe-based privacy-friendly browser like Vivaldi or Mullvad.

If hg. IJ folks were Cro-magnon who were R* folks?

"The picture of the little boy with the blue eyes and dark skin probably represents Ocular Albinism or Nettleship-Falls albinism, or Juvenile uveitis. Both conditions cause the pigment of the iris to be less dense"
 
I am generally suspicious about Genetic components and the time frame needed for them to drift.



I will give you an example why.

The Druze are genetically one of the most "Mediterranean" groups in all of Western Asia. They are believed by many people to represent an "ancient Near Eastern source", but in fact many of them are of Kurdish or Kurdish related origin.


more about the Druze People.
Ethnic origins

The Druze faith extended to many areas in the Middle East, but most of the surviving modern Druze can trace their origin to the Wadi al-Taymour in South Lebanon, which is named after an Arab tribe Taymour-Allah (formerly Taymour-Allat) which, according to Islamic historian, al-Tabari, first came from Arabia into the valley of the Euphrates where they were Christianized prior to their migration into the Lebanon. Many of the Druze feudal families whose genealogies have been preserved by the two modern Syrian chroniclers Haydar al-Shihabi and al-Shidyaq seem also to point in the direction of this origin. Arabian tribes emigrated via the Persian Gulf and stopped in Iraq on the route that was later to lead them to Syria. The first feudal Druze family, the Tanukh family, which made for itself a name in fighting the Crusaders, was, according to Haydar al-Shihabi, an Arab tribe from Mesopotamia where it occupied the position of a ruling family and apparently was Christianized.[28][page needed]

The Tanukhs must have left Arabia as early as the second or third century A.D. The Ma'an tribe, which superseded the Tanukhs and produced the greatest Druze hero in history, Fakhr-al-Din, had the same traditional origin. The Talhuq family and 'Abd-al-Malik, who supplied the later Druze leadership, have the same record as the Tanukhs. The Imad family is named for al-Imadiyyah — the Kurdish town of Amadiya, northeast of Mosul inside Kurdistan, and, like the Jumblatts, is thought to be of Kurdish origin. The Arsalan family claims descent from the Hirah Arab kings, but the name Arsalan (Persian and Turkish for lion) suggests Persian influence, if not origin.[28][page needed]


According to Jewish contemporary literature, the Druze, who were visited by Benjamin of Tudela, were described as descendants of the Itureans — an Ismaelite Arab tribe, which used to reside in the northern parts of the Golan plateau through Hellenistic and Roman periods.

Nevertheless, many scholars formed their own hypotheses: for example, Lamartine (1835) discovered in the modern Druzes the remnants of the Samaritans;[53] Earl of Carnarvon (1860), those of the Cuthites whom Esarhaddon transplanted into Palestine;[54] Professor Felix von Luschan (1911), according to his conclusions from anthropometric measurements, makes the Druze, Maronites, and Alawites of Syria, together with the Bektashis, 'Ali-Ilahis, and Yezidis of Asia Minor and Persia, the modern representatives of the ancient Hittites.[55]

During the 18th century, there were two branches of Druze living in Lebanon: the Yemeni Druze, headed by the Hamdan and Al-Atrash families; and the Kaysi Druze, headed by the Jumblat and Arsalan families.
Click to expand...
The two big families Jumblat (derives from Kurdish Canpolat) and Arsalan (not sure about Arsalan) are of Kurdish origin.

The most famous member of the Jumblat family is Walid Jumblatt, leader of the Progressive Socialist Party in Lebanon.

walid-jumblatt-1.jpg

When he recently visited Iraqi Kurdistan with his son, Timour Jumblatt, he said in a speech with Barzani that his ancestors are originally Kurdish from Kurdistan and how proud he is of his origin.

igin of the Jumblatt family is the Kurdish Janpoulad family coming from Shamel Janpoulad and dating back to Janboulad Ibn Kassem al Kirdi al Kaisari, known as Ibn Arabou (1530–1580), and governor of Aleppo. Walid Jumblatt is the son of Kamal Jumblatt, the founder of the PSP, the party which Walid Jumblatt currently leads. He is the maternal grandson of Prince Shakib Arslan.[2] His first wife was Gervette "Gigi," a Jordanian woman of Circassian origin who is the mother of his child Timour. His current wife is the Syrian Nora Sharabati, the daughter of the former Syrian Minister of Defense Ahmed Al-Sharabati. Walid Jumblatt graduated from the American University of Beirut in Political Science.
Click to expand...

al is the arabic article (like the in English) Kirdi is derived from Kurdish Kurdi and means Kurdish.

But Kurds are genetically different and have less of the Mediterranean and Southwest Asian and more of the West Asian component compared to the Druze.


So how is it possible that the Druze, who are also largely of Kurdish origin, can be different from Kurds genetically. They should resemble mostly Kurds with some stronger Southwest Asian input (from the Gulf Arabic input) but they resemble genetically more the genetically pure Levantins though they share common origin and religious roots (with Yezidi) Kurds.

Is it possible that the Mediterranean component is simply "West Asian " component slightly drifting towards Southwest Asian? And the reason Druze are high on this component is because they are largely of West Asian (Kurdish ) origin with Southwest Asian input?

There are so many things you cant explain with the current genetic consensus.
 
Kardu said:
"The picture of the little boy with the blue eyes and dark skin probably represents Ocular Albinism or Nettleship-Falls albinism, or Juvenile uveitis. Both conditions cause the pigment of the iris to be less dense"
Click to expand...

The boys eyes look pretty normal to me, Albinism is relative imo and it depends on your own definition of it. I am not trying to be rude but in some kind of way you could say the North Europeans "suffer" also from a sort of "Albinism".
 
Alan said:
The boys eyes look pretty normal to me, Albinism is relative imo and it depends on your own definition of it. I am not trying to be rude but in some kind of way you could say the North Europeans "suffer" also from a sort of "Albinism".
Click to expand...

No, blue eyes in Europeans are due to a specific, inheritable genetic mutation. :)

Ocular albinism on the other hand is a medical condition...
 
Kardu said:
No, blue eyes in Europeans are due to a specific, inheritable genetic mutation. :)

Ocular albinism on the other hand is a medical condition...
Click to expand...

ok let it be so, still the boy does not look like he suffers from albinism, his skin color is normal, and his eyes too. Blue eyes of Albinos have a reddish touch.

here is another one, and the description states that he is not suffering from Albinism and non Mulatto.

African%u0025252BBoy%252BBlue%252BEyes.jpg

A quick trace of the flurry of hits revealed the picture before you. It is, perhaps, the best example of a black African, non-mulatto, non-albino, with blue eyes. Also, the boy in the picture does not appear to have Waardenberg Syndrome, also a source of blue eyes in blacks. This leaves the strong possibility of a rare mutation of a key eye color gene.
Click to expand...
 
ok let it be so, still the boy does not look like he suffers from albinism, his skin color is normal, and his eyes too. Blue eyes of Albinos have a reddish touch.
Click to expand...

It is a TYPE of albinism. Search for: "Ocular Albinism"
 
the description says it is most probably not a sort of albinism but mutation.
 
the description says it is most probably
Click to expand...

What one says does not mean it is true. It is probably biased. The implicit message seems to be: "oh hey look, non-Europeans are capable of having blue eyes as well!". Political correctness at its best.
 
Ocular albinism is a form of albinism which, in contrast to oculocutaneous albinism, presents primarily in the eyes.[1] There are multiple forms of ocular albinism, which are clinically similar.[2]:865
Both known genes are on the X chromosome. When the term "autosomal recessive ocular albinism" ("AROA") is used, it usually refers to mild variants of oculocutaneous albinism
Also known as Nettleship-Falls syndrome,[4][5][6] is the most common variety of ocular albinism. OA1 is usually associated with nystagmus, and difficult to otherwise detect in females; males show more readily observable symptoms.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocular_albinism
 
Kardu said:
Ocular albinism on the other hand is a medical condition...
Click to expand...
Is it make him sick? Is he going to die?


Ocular albinism is a form of albinism which, in contrast tooculocutaneous albinism, presents primarily in the eyes.[1]There are multiple forms of ocular albinism, which are clinically similar.[2]:865
Both known genes are on the X chromosome.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocular_albinism
Click to expand...

If I'm reading it correctly, they mean changes on X chromosome, compared to "normal" people. By definition, it is a mutation, period.

It is not a beneficial mutation for these people or a region, that's why it is very sporadic. If it was beneficial there, we would have seen many more, or even most with blue eyes.

Likewise you can call blond mutations a medical conditions while in Africa. You will burn quickly unprotected and get skin cancer 1,000 fold faster than locals. A very serious medical condition I must add.
On other hand, around Baltic Sea blond mutations are/were beneficial to the degree that they spread across all populations in few thousand years.
 
What's your point, LeBrok? :)

Does what you say challenge the claim that blue eyes among Europeans is due to a single mutation which occurred about 8000 years ago?
 
Kardu said:
What's your point, LeBrok? :)

Does what you say challenge the claim that blue eyes among Europeans is due to a single mutation which occurred about 8000 years ago?
Click to expand...

Not at all, I was challenging your understanding of relation between mutation and medical condition.

To add, here is a fragment of this article you posted.
The mutation of brown eyes to blue represents neither a positive nor a negative mutation. It is one of several mutations such as hair colour, baldness, freckles and beauty spots, which neither increases nor reduces a human’s chance of survival. As Professor Eiberg says, “it simply shows that nature is constantly shuffling the human genome, creating a genetic cocktail of human chromosomes and trying out different changes as it does so.”
Click to expand...
If what professor says is right, then Ocular Albinism cannot be a medical condition. Blue eyes won't make you sick even if you're African.

Most likely the difference is that Blue eye Europeans got this OCA2 mutation in whole body, at least skin and eyes (as side effect of one of mutations of making skin whiter), where the African boy got this mutation in eyes only.
 
thanks LeBrok, that was my point. "Albinism and what is a "medical condition" is relative.

And the reason why I do not believe this mutation occurred North of the Black sea, is that we would have to assume that during Sumerian Period or even earlier a huge group of people have to have moved from North of the Blacksea into Western Asia. This doesnt sound very logical to me, but of course it is a possibility.
 
LeBrok said:
Not at all, I was challenging your understanding of relation between mutation and medical condition.

To add, here is a fragment of this article you posted.
If what professor says is right, then Ocular Albinism cannot be a medical condition. Blue eyes won't make you sick even if you're African.

Most likely the difference is that Blue eye Europeans got this OCA2 mutation in whole body, at least skin and eyes (as side effect of one of mutations of making skin whiter), where the African boy got this mutation in eyes only.
Click to expand...
Not so fast :) Is Ocular Albinism among Africans heritable like blue eye mutation among Europeans?
 
Yes, if it is a mutation that happened in early cell divisions. If this mutation happened only in eyes cells then no, sperm or egg won't carry it to next generation.
 
LeBrok said:
Yes, if it is a mutation that happened in early cell divisions. If this mutation happened only in eyes cells then no, sperm or egg won't carry it to next generation.
Click to expand...

So there you have your answer. Mutation responsible for blue eyes (in Europeans) is benign and heritable, while ocular albinism is a medical condition (you don't like this definition but still :))

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocular_albinism
"Also known as Forsius-Eriksson syndrome[8][9] or "Åland Island eye disease", mostly only affects males, though females are often carriers and can sometimes be symptomatic; it is frequently linked with protanopic dichromacy (a form of color blindness) and with night blindness (nyctalopia)."
 
Kardu said:
Y-chromosome variation in Tajiks and Iranians

http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.3109/03014460.2012.747628

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/424863_3823408110088_1311194968_n.jpg

It's interesting to observe that in Persian sample R1a1 is 20.8%, in Tajiks - 30% while among Kurds - 0%
Click to expand...
Thanks for this study. Every study on Kurds is GOLD for me. Shows me that the Medes and other ancient 'Umman Manda' in Kurdistan were mostly J2a folks.

but you're way off topic now. I started this topic about totally other subject. Nothing to do with this. And what are you trying to say? That Kurds are not Iranic?
Well, if Kurds are not Iranic, Indians are not Indic, French are not Celtic, Germans are not Germanic, Italians are not Italic/Roman, modernday Greeks are not Hellenic etc. This doesn't make any sense, right?
 
but you're way off topic now. I started this topic about totally other subject. Nothing to do with this. And what are you trying to say? That Kurds are not Iranic?
Well, if Kurds are not Iranic, Indians are not Indic, French are not Celtic, Germans are not Germanic, Italians are not Italic/Roman, modernGreeks are not Hellenic etc. This doesn't make any sense.
Click to expand...

The study didn't really test a large number of people though. Only 25 Kurds were tested.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top