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Immigration In Europe, Islam rises, Christianity falls

Sarcasm is fine, I take it when it's written with wit and intelligence. Self-refuting, I don't know what you're talking about. The situation is neither black or white, and tends to evoluate quickly. My point of view is is what it is, a personal view. The experience you have in your own part of the world has not much to do with ours, and the US mindset is quite different too (just at it is if you live in Brussels, Lisbon, Malmö or Cagliari...). I stated religion should be professed at home, because it is still clearly a friction point for many people and groups. It is too often used as a shield to accuse others to be racist or intolerant.
As for being off-target, it might probably be for some, as reading about political, social and economical conditions in Europe is only a fragment of what real people´s daily life is like.
 
Cimmerianbloke said:
Self-refuting, I don't know what you're talking about. The situation is neither black or white, and tends to evoluate quickly.
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Well, maybe you can clear it up for me. Should religion "be something professed at home" or should it "be for western Europe a social connector, as Islam is for muslims"? It will make a poor social connector if it is excluded to the home. And who cares if "Our secular society is threatened by islamists" if you think "secularism" has "failed" and "It's time for a new set of rules"? Why should religion "be something professed at home" if "secularism" has "failed" anyway, won't that just create more secularism? The only clear takeaway point I found in your post was that you think Muslims cause problems.
 
well, as we all know, native Europeans will not turn to muslims.... but there is large immigration for muslim areas coupled with big natality of people who origin from those areas.... those two factors can in some time lead to EU slowly becoming overwhelmingly muslim area,,, but in same time there is a process of Europeanization of people who origin from muslim settlers as they integrate and accept cultural values of lands in which they live... so I guess EU can never become fundamentally islamic...

hm, 10th post finally...
 
Islamophobic much? To be honest, I think the Europeans should not see Muslims as a threat to their Christian values and such, seeing that Muslims hold just as noble and honest values as any Christian at any time. Honestly, one cannot stop at this thread and not take the post to a pathetique level (simply because some assumed that Kosovo is ENTIRELY Islamic, seriously the nerve of the unread!). Truth be told, it is Muslims who protected Catholic Churches in Kosovo, it is the Muslims who do not discriminate but rather elevate the minority of Albanian Catholics, and it is Muslims who donated to build the Cathedral of Mother Terezë in Prishtina. To hell with it, we owe our existence to Muslims. There has never been a religious war in Albania nor Kosovo, and there are many inter-religious marriages. I shall take no more of this nonsense considering Muslims as the evil incarnate, simply because heathens considering themselves Muslim were terrorists. This is en par with "oh he looks semitic mommy, I'm scared!". Darned racists.
 
Maciamo said:
Islam will be the dominant religion, because the majority of the non-immigrant population has no religion. That does not mean that Europeans will become Muslim. If they rejected Christianity there is no chance that they will like better Islam, on the contrary. While native Europeans are moving further away from religiosity, Muslim immigrants only get more radically religious, opening the gap between both groups. No wonder that Muslim immigrants find it increasingly difficult to fit in European society, more than they did 30 or 40 years ago when Europeans were more religious and more tolerant and understanding toward other religions. Either the Muslim will have to become non religious or leave Europe - otherwise we will almost inevitably see major clashes between the two groups.
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Yeah you can think it like that but I'm pretty sure there is more people converting to Islam from other religons. So you can keep tell yourself this tales or it's immigrates moving to Europe and blah blah crap like that but really if you look at it better and understand it, you'll see it's people converting to Islam not just immigrates moving to Europe. Yeah I agree that is the case also Muslims moving to Europe but it's also the converting people that are making up this number too!


http://articles.cnn.com/1997-04-14/...scarves-or-veils-prophet-mohammed?_s=PM:WORLD (In America)

http://www.defendamerica.mil/articles/a100501b.html (This is from 2001, right now the numbers are even higher)

http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/1227/p01s04-woeu.html (European WOMEN turning to Islam)


So yeah I'm sure you can find your own research on this as well. And I'm sure a lot of you will think "oh it's beacuse they are moving to Europe or they are breeding to much." That is absolute nonsesne that is not the only thing you are bypassin the conversion part.


And also I would like to note, if any of you actually took the chance an read the Qu'ran you will see it talks about science, astronogy, banking, life of birth how the child looks like inside the women and much much more. All this is in the Qu'ran and it was been in there always since it started, it has never changed anything. It always talks about how space is growing faster and faster, while our dumbasses in this time just in 2010 or 2011 discovered that space is expending faster and faster. So yea ask yourself how does the Qu'ran have all this information an it's a super old book! Also NO BOOK in our world talks about so much stuff in one book. You cannot find a book that talks about science and the other stuff...
 
mrikë said:
Islamophobic much? To be honest, I think the Europeans should not see Muslims as a threat to their Christian values and such, seeing that Muslims hold just as noble and honest values as any Christian at any time. Honestly, one cannot stop at this thread and not take the post to a pathetique level (simply because some assumed that Kosovo is ENTIRELY Islamic, seriously the nerve of the unread!). Truth be told, it is Muslims who protected Catholic Churches in Kosovo, it is the Muslims who do not discriminate but rather elevate the minority of Albanian Catholics, and it is Muslims who donated to build the Cathedral of Mother Terezë in Prishtina. To hell with it, we owe our existence to Muslims. There has never been a religious war in Albania nor Kosovo, and there are many inter-religious marriages. I shall take no more of this nonsense considering Muslims as the evil incarnate, simply because heathens considering themselves Muslim were terrorists. This is en par with "oh he looks semitic mommy, I'm scared!". Darned racists.
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Exactly these are just uneducated ignorat idiots who think what their government has thought that is totally true and their government teaches them to act like this in society. Then they stick their noses up and think they know everything. It's a shame we cannot live united and side by side no matter what color of your skin or what religion you are. But it's all the governments fault for ever 100's of years they have feed this prapaganda information to these poor people, then they are the ones that look down on us from 3rd world countries and think we are uneducated! Ha well the reason we are a 3rd world country is because of their governments have put us in this situation.
 
before I start talking

admistrators, please do not merge my new account with the previous one, as that has (in previous attempt) made my account not usable - getting "server too busy" message almost every time I try to load a page or submit a comment on the forum when logged in, and having my posts (achieved after zillion trials to submit them) look messed up due to losing all empty lines and many spaces)


islam is in essence not much different from Christianity....
both are similar ideologies...

problem is that currently there are much more fanatics in islamic world than in christian world... partly because the christian countries in Europe and america have more or less gone through thousand years of pushing christianity on side, while in islamic countries, due to historical circumstances, islam is still rullng ideology...

In Europe islam is rising due to big import of workers from islamic countries, which is not without problems, due to different mentality and still strong influence of religion in the way those people think.
 
how yes no 3 said:
before I start talking

problem is that currently there are much more fanatics in islamic world than in christian world... partly because the christian countries in Europe and america have more or less gone through thousand years of pushing christianity on side, while in islamic countries, due to historical circumstances, islam is still rullng ideology...
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Thousand years? Closer to 500 years, generally from Renaissance. The strongest push came in last 100 years together with creation of modern states, strong economic growth, with tolerance and inclusiveness, which are essential for citizens to live peacefully together.

Hopefully it will be a faster process for muslim countries. The road is already built...
 
Having said that I don't consider important to be Christian or Muslim, the most important thing is not to be fanatic in both cases. Then I add that the problem of the clash of religions can be solved just with the culture of laicity. If our sons (Christians, Muslims or others) grow up in Europe in a secular context, then it will be easier to eliminate religious resistencies oustide the sphere of personal worship. Of course, in some cases it won't be easy, but tolerance can be built only inside a context of common values, that's why European societies should offer a true alternative of laicism (and respect their beliefs) to new generations of immigrants.
 
No buddy. Terrorism isnt a george bush invention or american creation. It a recent thing in europe and america. Islamist terrorism had been there in india,thailand,indonesia since long. So read about these before commenting. I am no george bush fan. Infact i feel america should stop acting as big daddy of the world. But that apart i dont like people giving wierd theories that's almost like supporting terrorism.
 
Hi riccardo...See buddy immigration is fine...but uncontrolled one??? im not for it. why?? U see native european population is declining. So such big immigration would mean my kids or their grand kids being a minority. To be honest this multicultural thing is great in theory. But once the population of immigrants start to rise then there will be tensions and this is a fact not just about europe or whites..It's true about all countries.
 
Hi mrike and ponosBosne. Now that u mentioned islamophobia, truth be said now many people use this term on anyone who criticise islam. No one is called christianophobe if they are critical of christianity. Truth be said i personally mock many beliefs and also the missionaries who goes to third world country to convert them. But islamophia is a truth but now it's used by many to just please muslims. Isnt it true that the media and the intellectual generally tend to turn a blind eye when there a topic of islam and terrorism?? Ok so may be we are islamophobs.. So what about hindus, sikhs in india?? the buddhists in thailand?? christians in philippines?? are they all islmophobes too??? If so many people in these countries have a bad opinion about muslims then certainley there is some problem from their side right?? Yeah iv been in these countries for long.
 
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