Iosif Lazaridis: Proto-Indo-Europeans had dark hair, brown eyes, and an intermed‌iate skin tone

[thunorr]

It better that we focus on new scientific studies, Iosif Lazaridis, Nick Patterson, David Anthony, David Reich, ... say CLV, not WSH, as the origin of Indo-Europeans.

Higher steppe inherently means more CLV.

 

[Moja]

Let me clarify: I have nothing against West Asia, its people, or specifically Persians and Iranians. I'm well aware of the rich heritage of Iranians and other West Asian cultures. However, we must remain watchful against the tendency to allow personal biases to distort our understanding. The study of Indo-European origins is a minefield and should be approached with caution. So we shouldn't treat Indo-Europeans as either heroes or villains; instead, we must avoid sanitising their history by denying their (East) European roots out of a desire to counteract or neutralise Nazi ideologies.

Scholars don't care what you or Nazis think, it has been proved that the original Indo-Europeans had CHG/Iranian ancestry, not EHG ancestry, as you read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_hunter-gatherer The formation of the EHG ancestral component is estimated to have happened 13,000–15,000 years BP but no one talks about Indo-Europeans in this region before the arrival of CHG/Iranian ancestry about 5000 BP, the most important point is that Anatolians, as the oldest known IE people, had no EHG ancestry, all things are clear, those Eastern Europeans just adopted an IE culture and had no role in the formation of this culture.

 

[Power]

They certainly resemble Europeans much more than Arabs. Armenians who are the most southern of all Caucasian populations tend to look much closer to southern Europeans than they do Syrians. Caucasians typically have black to brown hair and fair to intermediate skin and are significantly lighter than any Arabic or Iranian populations as an average. Caucasian facial features also align much more closely with Europeans than Arabic individuals. You can clearly see the syrian crowds here have broader and thicker noses compared to the Armenian sample. The populations are not visually interchangable.

Armenians are not "whiter" than us Kurds . in fact Türkiye Kurds are a bit whiter than Armenians as a whole espcially when you also include western Armenians . but overall Armenians and Kurds are the same level of "whiteness" . i say this because you said "than any iranian population" and we are an iranic speaking people

i dont know why i am ignored and why people dont look into the threads i linked in this thread . when you look into the threads i linked you will see how real / actual Kurds look like . without gypsy mix

by the way the reason why even Syrians are darker and more exotic looking than Kurds Armenians etc. is their natufian ancestry . they have a lot more of it than we do

additionally we Kurds are around 10% EHG

please check out this thread :

Thread 'a collection of DNA tested / DNA confirmed Kurdish people'

Dec 23, 2024

hi

all Kurds i will post in this thread are DNA tested and are DNA confirmed Kurds . i have the gedmatch kit number of many and if not then 23andme or Myheritage

give your opinions on which ethnicities overlap lookwise

[img=705x729]https://up.picr.de/48435903pk.jpg[/img]

(she is 1/8 Armenian)

...

• Power
• Replies: 45
• Forum: Anthropology & Ethnography

 

[MOESAN]

Thanks for the pics
That said I don't s

They certainly resemble Europeans much more than Arabs. Armenians who are the most southern of all Caucasian populations tend to look much closer to southern Europeans than they do Syrians. Caucasians typically have black to brown hair and fair to intermediate skin and are significantly lighter than any Arabic or Iranian populations as an average. Caucasian facial features also align much more closely with Europeans than Arabic individuals. You can clearly see the syrian crowds here have broader and thicker noses compared to the Armenian sample. The populations are not visually interchangable.

Armenians:

View attachment 18024
View attachment 18025
View attachment 18029
Syrians:

View attachment 18026
View attachment 18027
View attachment 18028

ahre totally you

 

[MOESAN]

Thanks for the pics
That said I don't s

They certainly resemble Europeans much more than Arabs. Armenians who are the most southern of all Caucasian populations tend to look much closer to southern Europeans than they do Syrians. Caucasians typically have black to brown hair and fair to intermediate skin and are significantly lighter than any Arabic or Iranian populations as an average. Caucasian facial features also align much more closely with Europeans than Arabic individuals. You can clearly see the syrian crowds here have broader and thicker noses compared to the Armenian sample. The populations are not visually interchangable.

Armenians:

View attachment 18024
View attachment 18025
View attachment 18029
Syrians:

View attachment 18026
View attachment 18027
View attachment 18028

ahre totally you

 

[MOESAN]

Thanks for the pics
That said I don't s

They certainly resemble Europeans much more than Arabs. Armenians who are the most southern of all Caucasian populations tend to look much closer to southern Europeans than they do Syrians. Caucasians typically have black to brown hair and fair to intermediate skin and are significantly lighter than any Arabic or Iranian populations as an average. Caucasian facial features also align much more closely with Europeans than Arabic individuals. You can clearly see the syrian crowds here have broader and thicker noses compared to the Armenian sample. The populations are not visually interchangable.

Armenians:

View attachment 18024
View attachment 18025
View attachment 18029
Syrians:

View attachment 18026
View attachment 18027
View attachment 18028

THanks for pics.
I don' share totally your analysis. You're right for the means but we can see there are a non negligible number of people in Syria that can pass in Armenia, Turkey and even soutehrn European post. To say the contrary is not accurate or is dishonest, IMO. WHat we can see too is that some more or less recent SSA inputs have modified the Arabes and Arabised pop's. NO po is homogenous concerning phoenotypes, what we have are gradians.

 

[lockdownboredom]

Armenians are not "whiter" than us Kurds . in fact Türkiye Kurds are a bit whiter than Armenians as a whole espcially when you also include western Armenians . but overall Armenians and Kurds are the same level of "whiteness" . i say this because you said "than any iranian population" and we are an iranic speaking people

i dont know why i am ignored and why people dont look into the threads i linked in this thread . when you look into the threads i linked you will see how real / actual Kurds look like . without gypsy mix

by the way the reason why even Syrians are darker and more exotic looking than Kurds Armenians etc. is their natufian ancestry . they have a lot more of it than we do

additionally we Kurds are around 10% EHG

please check out this thread :

Thread 'a collection of DNA tested / DNA confirmed Kurdish people'

Dec 23, 2024

hi

all Kurds i will post in this thread are DNA tested and are DNA confirmed Kurds . i have the gedmatch kit number of many and if not then 23andme or Myheritage

give your opinions on which ethnicities overlap lookwise

[img=705x729]https://up.picr.de/48435903pk.jpg[/img]

(she is 1/8 Armenian)

...

• Power
• Replies: 45
• Forum: Anthropology & Ethnography

I doubt Kurds are 10% EHG but regardless it doesn't matter as that isn't direct EHG input but transferred via Yamnaya and then transferred and diluted further by admixed Middle Eastern groups who didn't have the slightest resemblance to Yamnaya. It's a similar story to Northern South Asians who have inherited substantial Yamnaya but don't remotely look like them. And they aren't considered part white because of any EHG they score in a calculator. Furthermore, a similar phenomenon is present with the ANF found in Middle Easterns who inherited it from mixed Copper Age Anatolian and Neolithic Levantine populations that would have diverged phenotypically from ANF, just like Yamnaya phenotypically diverging from EHG and CHG. And in a modern context, Mestizos diverging from Spanish/Natives.

Also get off your high horse, Kurds aren't even native to Anatolia/Caucasus whereas Armenians are. Even the name Kurd means tent dweller/nomad so no different to Gypsies in that respect. Show me another ethnicity from these areas with nearly 40% Iran Neolithic ancestry. Kurds are just offshoot Iranians who are much more exotic than Armenians. To put into perspective how rediculous your claim of Kurds being whiter than Armenians is, it would be like a Gypsy claiming they are whiter than Balkanites.

 

[Power]

I doubt Kurds are 10% EHG but regardless it doesn't matter as that isn't direct EHG input but transferred via Yamnaya and then transferred and diluted further by admixed Middle Eastern groups who didn't have the slightest resemblance to Yamnaya. It's a similar story to Northern South Asians who have inherited substantial Yamnaya but don't remotely look like them. And they aren't considered part white because of any EHG they score in a calculator. Furthermore, a similar phenomenon is present with the ANF found in Middle Easterns who inherited it from mixed Copper Age Anatolian and Neolithic Levantine populations that would have diverged phenotypically from ANF, just like Yamnaya phenotypically diverging from EHG and CHG. And in a modern context, Mestizos diverging from Spanish/Natives.

Also get off your high horse, Kurds aren't even native to Anatolia/Caucasus whereas Armenians are. Even the name Kurd means tent dweller/nomad so no different to Gypsies in that respect. Show me another ethnicity from these areas with nearly 40% Iran Neolithic ancestry. Kurds are just offshoot Iranians who are much more exotic than Armenians. To put into perspective how rediculous your claim of Kurds being whiter than Armenians is, it would be like a Gypsy claiming they are whiter than Balkanites.

we are native to most of the lands we inhabit . and it doesnt matter where you have a component from . it is like saying "oh you drank coke and got your sugar from there instead of a chocolate bar so this means the sugar is different " . no sugar is sugar it doesnt matter where your body gets it from . when you break it down and use proper models that are far past in time it will show . by the way we dont have our ANF / EEF from Levantines . when you use Levant N and ANF in a model we score way more ANF by itself . it prefers the ANF

what about iran neolithic ? every northern west asian ethnicity has a lot of it . Armenians are around 21% Zagros N / Iran N while Kurds are around 33% . Armenians are 26% CHG while Kurds are around 17% btw. so saying they are native caucasians while Kurds are from mars at the same time is bullshit .

are you one of those annoying people who darkwash Iran N ? Iran N is not like what certain people claim to be . also Greek Islanders can be up to 20% Iran N individually and even mainland Greeks score several percent if i remember right . even Albanians can be 7-8% sometimes

i said TR Kurds are a bit whiter than Armenians as a whole lookwise but Kurds and Armenians are on par more or less .

why are you triggered by my posts btw. ? and why are you writing in a hostile style ? i didnt do anything wrong so i dont understand why you behave like this tbh

 

[lockdownboredom]

we are native to most of the lands we inhabit . and it doesnt matter where you have a component from . it is like saying "oh you drank coke and got your sugar from there instead of a chocolate bar so this means the sugar is different " . no sugar is sugar it doesnt matter where your body gets it from . when you break it down and use proper models that are far past in time it will show . by the way we dont have our ANF / EEF from Levantines . when you use Levant N and ANF in a model we score way more ANF by itself . it prefers the ANF

what about iran neolithic ? every northern west asian ethnicity has a lot of it . Armenians are around 21% Zagros N / Iran N while Kurds are around 33% . Armenians are 26% CHG while Kurds are around 17% btw. so saying they are native caucasians while Kurds are from mars at the same time is bullshit .

are you one of those annoying people who darkwash Iran N ? Iran N is not like what certain people claim to be . also Greek Islanders can be up to 20% Iran N individually and even mainland Greeks score several percent if i remember right . even Albanians can be 7-8% sometimes

i said TR Kurds are a bit whiter than Armenians as a whole lookwise but Kurds and Armenians are on par more or less .

why are you triggered by my posts btw. ? and why are you writing in a hostile style ? i didnt do anything wrong so i dont understand why you behave like this tbh

You are Iranian imports supplied by the Sultan. A cake isn't an egg because it contains eggs is it? Nah Kurds are nearly 40% Iran Neolithic and your people are from the heartland where Iran Neolithic people resided. Hence a higher chance of direct Iran Neolithic ancestry. Greeks didn't inherit their Iran N directly from Iran Neolithic people, it was passed on by a third party. And you don't even need to model Greeks with Iran N as CHG will suffice.

Because you post the same crap repeatedly and make out whitneness to be some sort of competition among West Asians.

 

[Power]

You are Iranian imports supplied by the Sultan. A cake isn't an egg because it contains eggs is it? Nah Kurds are nearly 40% Iran Neolithic and your people are from the heartland where Iran Neolithic people resided. Hence a higher chance of direct Iran Neolithic ancestry. Greeks didn't inherit their Iran N directly from Iran Neolithic people, it was passed on by a third party. And you don't even need to model Greeks with Iran N as CHG will suffice.

dont believe those anti kurd turks who say such things . we are native to eastern and southeastern turkey there are even ancient maps proving this and it is also historically known that we kurds helped the turkomans to enter anatolia . we opened the gates for them and helped them enter .

we are not 40% iran neo . we are 33% . i dont know where you have 40% from lol . can you give me a model that shows 40% . i can share my model with you which i am sure is a very good model

if it was for me we could be 50 60 % Iran N because i like the component a lot . it is a beautiful component (and it is also misportrayed by many idiots online) but we are 33%

Greeks have Iran N in decent amounts . and it doesnt matter where you have it from . again .... . as i said when you break it down it is still Iran N and you score it . if you score it you score it

Because you post the same crap repeatedly and make out whitneness to be some sort of competition among West Asians.

i really dont . and my posts were not intended to do this . all i want is to show my people the way we are and i am correcting the wrong anthromyths about us . nothing more nothing less . i dont have any bad intentions

i know you from TA btw. . . please dont behave like a typical TA person

i would like us to discuss in a respectful manner and we could model ethnicities and ourselves with G25 if you want

 

[lockdownboredom]

dont believe those anti kurd turks who say such things . we are native to eastern and southeastern turkey there are even ancient maps proving this and it is also historically known that we kurds helped the turkomans to enter anatolia . we opened the gates for them and helped them enter .

we are not 40% iran neo . we are 33% . i dont know where you have 40% from lol . can you give me a model that shows 40% . i can share my model with you which i am sure is a very good model

if it was for me we could be 50 60 % Iran N because i like the component a lot . it is a beautiful component (and it is also misportrayed by many idiots online) but we are 33%

Greeks have Iran N in decent amounts . and it doesnt matter where you have it from . again .... . as i said when you break it down it is still Iran N and you score it . if you score it you score it




i really dont . and my posts were not intended to do this . all i want is to show my people the way we are and i am correcting the wrong anthromyths about us . nothing more nothing less . i dont have any bad intentions

i know you from TA btw. . . please dont behave like a typical TA person

i would like us to discuss in a respectful manner and we could model ethnicities and ourselves with G25 if you want

What maps? Do you have any Byzantine sources referencing Kurds? When I am on my computer I will review QPADM runs of Kurds and post.

"it doesnt matter where you have it from . again" So is it your belief that the child of a Northern Indian and a Black person has the chance of turning out Swedish looking just because the kid will inherit Yamnaya from the Indian side?

 

[Power]

when i try to quote you it quotes your previous respones too so i will just reply without a quote

a greek member on our forum did qpAdm runs for Kurds before but i dont know how accurate they are and there we scored even more than 40%

Kurd-43: 17% Yamnaya_Samara + 33.5% Anatolia_N + 49% Iran_N + 5% CHG.

Kurd-45: 22.2% Yamnaya_Samara + 33.3% Anatolia_N + 44.5% Iran_N.

Kurd-49: 22.5% Yamnaya_Samara + 36% Anatolia_N + 41.4% Iran_N.


but i was talking about G25 . i know qpAdm is the academic tool and would be better . however i would only trust models of experts because qpAdm can also often be inaccurate especially in meso-neolithic time areas


" So is it your belief that the offspring of a Northern Indian and a Black person has the chance of turning out Swedish looking just because the kid will inherit Yamnaya from the Indian side?"

no of course not but he will not look swedish because he doesnt have ENOUGH yamnaya to begin with AND because of the ssa and other components he has MORE of .

again think about the example i gave with sugar in our bodies . if you drink a soft drink or eat gummy bears it doesnt matter in your body the sugar will be sugar . this is true for our components in us too . when you have Iran N you have Iran N

 

[lockdownboredom]

QDADAM is the only credible tool. The others are merely for entertainment. These components are too ancient and mixed to the point you won't come out looking like one. Wood can become sawdust and it will never become a tree again. A metzizo or half black/half white person are never going to produce offspring with non white people who resemble their European ancestors.

 

[Power]

QDADAM is the only credible tool. The others are merely for entertainment. These components are too ancient and mixed to the point you won't come out looking like one. Wood can become sawdust and it will never become a tree again. A metzizo or half black/half white person are never going to produce offspring with non white people who resemble their European ancestors.

because they have too much ssa or amerindian ......bruh

 

[Power]

by the way you might actually be the greek member who made these qpadm runs . are you onyx ?

be honest . you can also pm me if you dont want others to know

 

[Vitruvius]

Armenians are not "whiter" than us Kurds . in fact Türkiye Kurds are a bit whiter than Armenians as a whole espcially when you also include western Armenians . but overall Armenians and Kurds are the same level of "whiteness" . i say this because you said "than any iranian population" and we are an iranic speaking people

i dont know why i am ignored and why people dont look into the threads i linked in this thread . when you look into the threads i linked you will see how real / actual Kurds look like . without gypsy mix

by the way the reason why even Syrians are darker and more exotic looking than Kurds Armenians etc. is their natufian ancestry . they have a lot more of it than we do

additionally we Kurds are around 10% EHG

please check out this thread :

Thread 'a collection of DNA tested / DNA confirmed Kurdish people'

Dec 23, 2024

hi

all Kurds i will post in this thread are DNA tested and are DNA confirmed Kurds . i have the gedmatch kit number of many and if not then 23andme or Myheritage

give your opinions on which ethnicities overlap lookwise

[img=705x729]https://up.picr.de/48435903pk.jpg[/img]

(she is 1/8 Armenian)

...

• Power
• Replies: 45
• Forum: Anthropology & Ethnography

Kurds, just like Iranians and Syrians are noticably darker than Armenians. When one stops posting individuals and start posting crowds (which are much harder to cherry pick) it becomes obvious that the vast majority of Kurds do not phenotypically resemble Caucasian ethnic groups.

Kurds:

 

[lockdownboredom]

by the way you might actually be the greek member who made these qpadm runs . are you onyx ?

be honest . you can also pm me if you dont want others to know

Doesn't matter. Where are the maps?

 

[Power]

by the way you might actually be the greek member who made these qpadm runs . are you onyx ?

Kurds, just like Iranians and Syrians are noticably darker than Armenians. When one stops posting individuals and start posting crowds (which are much harder to cherry pick) it becomes obvious that the vast majority of Kurds do not phenotypically resemble Caucasian ethnic groups.

Kurds:

View attachment 18036View attachment 18035View attachment 18034

as i have said before there are millions of gypsies and gypsy mixed people in Kurdish regions and they often just say they are Kurdish and they speak Kurdish etc. . and we have also many arabs and arab mixed people

i have posted many crowd and group pics too in the links i have provided on page 11 . and even large videos of festivals etc

you can not go by random crowd pics of Kurds on google . they are not representative much of the time

real Kurds look like the DNA tested Kurds i posted here on Eupedia . thats how Kurds look like . all of us are DNA tested / DNA confirmed .

but if you want to have crowds then look for example at these videos and i can give you more crowd / group pics and videos .but you will also have arab and gypsy people on such videos / pics ....it is not avoidable :

some snapshots from the videos

and even here some will be gypsy and arab mixed btw

 

[Power]

Doesn't matter. Where are the maps?

it does matter . but we will have to agree to disagree here


"Corduene is considered proto-Kurdish and a precursor to modern Kurdistan. The Kingdom of Gordyene emerged from the declining Seleucid Empire and for most of its history, it was a province of the Roman Empire and acknowledged the sovereignty of Rome."

 

[MOESAN]

How could ANFs (G2a) be close to Natufians (E)? It is generally understood that the ANFs emerged from the AHGs whose point of origin must have been in East Anatolia or the Caucasus, far away from where you'd expect the Natufians or their predecessors. It is where AHGs split from the ancestors of WHGs and CHGs at various points in time. In fact, the AHGs are believed to be the earliest split from a core West Eurasian population and are even equated with Dzudzuana. The Natufians have Dzudzuana, too, so that's the only connection. Now fast forward to the neolithic, the ANFs are pretty much the AHGs genetically but there was a minor gene flow from the Levant and the Caucasus but it was limited to the border regions. For some reason, and I suspect it's due to a population explosion, the ANFs expanded in all directions, including the Levant. That's why the Natufian-derived Pre-Pottery Neolithic B has a lot of ANF admixture and not the other way round. Whatever shared ancestry there was between the ANFs and Natufians, it was mediated through Dzudzuana, a core West Eurasian component. But it doesn't make any sense to claim that ANFs were closer to Natufians than WHGs or even CHGs, considering the fact that their principal male haplogroup G2a comes from the macro-group GHIJK, whereas the Natufians belonged to E, itself derived from DE with its closest sibling being the East Asian/Eurasian haplogroup D. Bear also in mind that the Old European language spoken by the Basque, the people most closely related to EEFs/ANFs, seems to be a remnant of the latter. The Natufians are thought to be the progenitors of Afro-Asiatic. Where is the relation?

It doesn't matter what I think. Nobody relates the ANFs to Natufians as was once the case. Today everybody recognises that the ANFs are a separate group (although heterogeneous), completely unrelated to the Natufians and Levantines because they were basically farming AHGs who adopted agriculture on their own. They kept expanding throughout the calcolithic and the Bronze Age, of course, which is why Levantines have so much of their ancestry as opposed to the populations of the Arabian peninsula where the Natufian component is the highest.

Here I think you see what you want see.
Let's read again the survey of Lazaridis and Cy about the region since Paleo to Neolithic.
"...
These analyses show that ESHG share more alleles with Dzudzuana than with PGNE populations,
except Neolithic Anatolians who form a clade with Dzudzuana to the exclusion of ESHG
(Extended Data Fig. 5a)."...
It says: on the gradian between European Siberian HG's and NAF Near Eastern pop's, stay Dzudzuana and Anat-Neol- pop's, both of this last ones very closer one to another than to the two extreme pop's. Like that it says nothing about relative proximity of Dzu & NE with one of these extremes.
...
Furthermore, Dzudzuana shares more alleles with Villabruna-cluster groups than with other
ESHG (Extended Data Fig. 5b), suggesting that this European affinity was specifically
related to the Villabruna cluster, and indicating that the Villabruna affinity of PGNE
populations from Anatolia and the Levant is not the result of a migration into the Near East
from Europe. ...
It says that among HG ancestor of Europe it's the Villabruna cluster which is close to Dzudzuana and also that Villabruna had some ties with the Levant (via Dzu-) and that these ties are not the result of newcomers from Western Europe, and I conclude that it's could be ancient enough.
...
Neolithic Anatolians, while forming a clade with Dzudzuana with respect to ESHG (Extended Data Fig. 5a), share more alleles with all other PGNE (Extended Data Fig. 5d), suggesting that PGNE share at least partially common descent to the exclusion of the much older samples from Dzudzuana. ...

How could ANFs (G2a) be close to Natufians (E)? It is generally understood that the ANFs emerged from the AHGs whose point of origin must have been in East Anatolia or the Caucasus, far away from where you'd expect the Natufians or their predecessors. It is where AHGs split from the ancestors of WHGs and CHGs at various points in time. In fact, the AHGs are believed to be the earliest split from a core West Eurasian population and are even equated with Dzudzuana. The Natufians have Dzudzuana, too, so that's the only connection. Now fast forward to the neolithic, the ANFs are pretty much the AHGs genetically but there was a minor gene flow from the Levant and the Caucasus but it was limited to the border regions. For some reason, and I suspect it's due to a population explosion, the ANFs expanded in all directions, including the Levant. That's why the Natufian-derived Pre-Pottery Neolithic B has a lot of ANF admixture and not the other way round. Whatever shared ancestry there was between the ANFs and Natufians, it was mediated through Dzudzuana, a core West Eurasian component. But it doesn't make any sense to claim that ANFs were closer to Natufians than WHGs or even CHGs, considering the fact that their principal male haplogroup G2a comes from the macro-group GHIJK, whereas the Natufians belonged to E, itself derived from DE with its closest sibling being the East Asian/Eurasian haplogroup D. Bear also in mind that the Old European language spoken by the Basque, the people most closely related to EEFs/ANFs, seems to be a remnant of the latter. The Natufians are thought to be the progenitors of Afro-Asiatic. Where is the relation?

It doesn't matter what I think. Nobody relates the ANFs to Natufians as was once the case. Today everybody recognises that the ANFs are a separate group (although heterogeneous), completely unrelated to the Natufians and Levantines because they were basically farming AHGs who adopted agriculture on their own. They kept expanding throughout the calcolithic and the Bronze Age, of course, which is why Levantines have so much of their ancestry as opposed to the populations of the Arabian peninsula where the Natufian component is the highest.

have another reading!
« … analyses show that ESHG share more alleles with Dzudzuana than with PGNE populations,

except Neolithic Anatolians who form a clade with Dzudzuana to the exclusion of ESHG

(Extended Data Fig. 5a). Thus, our results prove that the European affinity of Neolithic

Anatolians does not necessarily reflect any admixture into the Near East from Europe, as an

Anatolian Neolithic-like population already existed in parts of the Near East by ~26kya. »/…

IT’s says : on the cline between Europe-Siberia HG’s and NAFr-Near-East extremes of the cline we found Dzu- and Anat-Neol-, both closer to one another than to the extremes – and that Near-East had Dzu- Not come by force from Western Europe but here since possibly a long enough time./ …

« Furthermore, Dzudzuana shares more alleles with Villabruna-cluster groups than with other

ESHG (Extended Data Fig. 5b), suggesting that this European affinity was specifically

related to the Villabruna cluster, and indicating that the Villabruna affinity of PGNE

populations from Anatolia and the Levant is not the result of a migration into the Near East

from Europe. »/ …

It says : In the Europelike ancestry of Dzudzuana, it’s Villabruna the principal donor and the affinities between Villabruna and Near East is not due to an immigration from Europe. It doesn’t precise the supposed time of Villabruna introgression in Near-East if even introgression. / ...

…

« Neolithic Anatolians, while forming a clade with Dzudzuana with respect to ESHG

, share more alleles with all other PGNE , suggesting that PGNE share at least partially common descent to the exclusion of the much older samples from Dzudzuana. »/ … / « The Dzudzuana population was not identical to the WHG, as it shared fewer alleles with both an early Upper Paleolithic Siberian (Ust’Ishim) and an early Upper Paleolithic East Asian (Tianyuan), thus, it too—like the PGNE populations—had Basal Eurasian ancestry. The detection

of this type of ancestry, twice as early as previously documented and at the northern edge

of the Near East, lends weight to the hypothesis that it represents a deep Near Eastern lineage

rather than a recent arrival from Africa.

It says : Dzudzuana (Caucasus) had ‘Basal Eurasion (whatever the definition) as the pop’s of Near-East and even NAF and it’s ancient enough , when for Euro-Siber-HG’s had not this BE ; BE among these southern pop’s is not a recent event. And also that on the above mentioned cline, ANAnat- were already closer to the more southern pop’s (Levant/NAF) than to Euro-Siber-HG when original Dzu- stayed a bit closer to Euro-Siber-HG.

…

We used qpGraph to build an admixture graph model of the relationship between ESHG

and Dzudzuana, also including the earliest PGNE populations from North Africa (Taforalt)

and the Epipaleolithic Levant (Natufians)... According to this model, a common population contributed ancestry to Gravettians (represented by Vestonice16) and to a “Common West Eurasian” population that contributed all the ancestry of Villabruna and most of the ancestry of Dzudzuana which also had 28.4±4.2% Basal Eurasian ancestry. Our co-modeling of Epipaleolithic Natufians and Ibero-Maurusians from Taforalt confirms that the Taforalt population was mixed, but instead of specifying gene flow from the ancestors of Natufians into the ancestors of Taforalt as originally reported, we infer gene flow in the reverse direction (into Natufians). The Neolithic population from Morocco, closely related to Taforalt is also consistent with being descended from the source of this gene flow, and appears to have no admixture from the Levantine Neolithic. If our model is correct, Epipaleolithic Natufians trace part of their ancestry to North Africa, consistent with morphological and archaeological studies that indicate a spread of morphological features and artifacts from North Africa into the Near East.
…

In the Near East, the Dzudzuana-related population admixed with North African-related ancestry in the Levant and with Siberian hunter-gatherer and eastern non-African-related ancestry in Iran and the Caucasus. Thus, the highly differentiated populations at the dawn of the Neolithic were primarily descended from Villabruna Cluster and Dzudzuana-related ancestors, with varying degrees of additional input related to both North Africa and Ancient North/East Eurasia whose proximate sources may be clarified by future sampling of geographically and temporally inter-mediate populations./ …

…

Both Europeans and Near Easterners also share in AG3-related ancestry of up to ~30% in eastern

Europe down to ~0% in parts of North Africa. Europeans are differentiated by an excess of

up to ~20% Villabruna-related ancestry relative to non-European populations and also by a

relative lack of extra ‘Deep’ ancestry compared to the Near East and North Africa, a type of

ancestry that may only partially be explained by the Basal Eurasian ancestry of ancient West

Eurasian populations and must also trace to Africa. ‘Deep’ ancestry,

including Basal Eurasian ancestry, is associated with reduced Neandertal ancestry, confirming that Neandertal ancestry in West Eurasia has been diluted by admixture./ …

It says : Iran/CHG and Near-East/NAF had different respective complementary admixture, what doesn’t exclude the common Dzudzuana, which contained BE, and had another deep ancestry, these last ones almost absent in old Europeans.

In a few words : we all share a common basis with some drift and received diverse adstrata themselves results of ancient drifts. To be precise, these groupings of ESHG and PGNE aren’t homogenous, they help to give us a rough sketche.

In another survey they said (same squad ?) Dzudzuana was roughly half way between ESHG and PGNE (NANE), so ANA (Anat Neol) were a bit closer to PGNE than to ESHG. Plus on every PCA I saw (I know PCA’s are not God’s word) Anatolian Farmers and close pop’s were close to the middle on the clines between today Europeans and Near-East, but a bit closer to modern Near-East and North Arabs people as a whole, if we leave ancient pre-Neolithic Natufians and current Southern Arabs besides . When compared to ancient Euro HG’s they were even farther than to modern Euro. History passed there, with in Euope a bit more EHG, and CHG/Iran at diverse proportions, this last component passed through more than a way and decreasing the distances between all. Today South- and South-eastern Europeans are no more the first EEF farmers, - these last ones already a bit drifted from first Anatolian Farmers. So the position of these ancient farmers doesn’t predict the today position of our southerners.