Is "Harvard" a variant of Hrvat/Croat? (OFFTOPIC from "Searching for famous I2"...)

The origin of the name Serb from an Indo European root seems incredible. Serbian toponyms in their homeland in Caucasus are often remote to Slavic tongues.

Azerbaijan Ser-Abad : Serboi Greek reading.

Both names Serboi earlier Sabar and Hrvat (Croat) earlier Havar, Avar seem to have originated in the shores of the Caspian Sea. The forefathers of Serbs and Croats were not Indo European but Caucasian.
The names of Asian tribes Sabar and Kavar (*Havar) Avar derived from the same root [common shift b > v, also allophones s/ h].

Serbs (*Sabar) and Croats (Hrvat) were Avar tribes which Magyar sources essentially call Kabar and Kavar.

The remnant of Sabar, Avar excellent horsemanship in Turkish language was stamped in the cognate: tr. süvari ' cavalier, cavalry, cavalryman, chevalier, mounted troops, man'. Clearly the origin of Serbs and Croats is not Indo European. Although they adopted the language of their slaves, the Sabar and Avar overlords preserved their original name. Franks, a Germanic tribe who had conquered Gaul also lost its ancient language against numerically superior native population.

Please, do not spoil this interesting topic, there are another threads where you can speak your observations.

Serbs and Croats (and Bosniacs too) have greatest amount of haplogroup I2a in the Balkans, someone can see in Eupedia, Serbia 33%, Croatia 37%. What is interesting amount haplogroup of I1 in Serbia is 8.5% , in Croatia it is 5.5%. Total haplogroup I in Serbia is 42%, in Croatia is 43.5%, according to Eupedia. Now it is in progress comprehensive research of haplogroups by Serbian regions, so this amounts for I haplogroup may be increased in Serbia.

Haplogroup I is one of the oldest haplogroup on European soil, I carriers in Europe were hunter gatherers, long after early farmers and Indo Europeans came in Europe. It is not significant haplogroup of Caspian sea region, everyone can see Avar haplogroups today.
 
Thanks for your reply Garrick :)

Great list...I would like to know whether these names you listed equate with Gothic, Gaelic or Haplogroup I....I think there is a very strong possibility...

There are data for Gagić , haplogroup I2a Dinaric North.
 
Please, do not spoil this interesting topic, there are another threads where you can speak your observations.

Serbs and Croats (and Bosniacs too) have greatest amount of haplogroup I2a in the Balkans, someone can see in Eupedia, Serbia 33%, Croatia 37%. What is interesting amount haplogroup of I1 in Serbia is 8.5% , in Croatia it is 5.5%. Total haplogroup I in Serbia is 42%, in Croatia is 43.5%, according to Eupedia. Now it is in progress comprehensive research of haplogroups by Serbian regions, so this amounts for I haplogroup may be increased in Serbia.

Haplogroup I is one of the oldest haplogroup on European soil, I carriers in Europe were hunter gatherers, long after early farmers and Indo Europeans came in Europe. It is not significant haplogroup of Caspian sea region, everyone can see Avar haplogroups today.

Is halogoup I2a slavic?
 
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...ighlight=wrong+haplogroup+originated+frequent

http://www.iranchamber.com/history/articles/common_origin_croats_serbs_jats.php

http://www.forum.hr/showthread.php?t=124604


Y chromosomal haplogroup I1b* (xM26) as a signature of the Avar population

The extent and nature of Avar paternal genetic contribution to the European genetic landscape were explored based on a high-resolution Y chromosome analysis.

Rootsi et al. (2004) estimated that I1b* (xM26) diverged from I* at 10.7 +- 4.8 kilo years ago (KYA). Considering only Peričić et al. sample, the coalescent estimate of I1b* (xM26) is substantially older (11.1 6 4.8 KYA).
Recent phylogeographic analyses indicate that I1b* (xM26) STR variance peaks over a large geographic region encompassing most of the Pannonian basin (fig. 3D).
The incidence of I1b* retains frequencies of 7%–22% in central and eastern Europe and decreases from SEE toward western (from 20% in Slovenians abruptly to 1% in northern Italians) and southern (2-3% in Kosovar Albanians, 17%–18% in Albanians and northern Greeks, 8% in southern Greeks, 2% in Turks).
This finding has important implications and points to a relativelly recent indroduction of I1b* (xM26) to southeastern Europe, most likely attributed to Avars, who „were not destined to create as great an empire as that of Attila, but formed a strong power in the Danube lands…” High-resolution analysis of human Y-chromosome variation shows a sharp discontinuity and limited gene flow between the Avar Khaganate and neighbouring European regions. It is assumed that, fleeing the Turkic uprising, thousands of Avars fled into exile and began their 3,000-mile trek towards Europe. Due to the perception of them as scoundrels „treacherous, foul, untrustworthy and possessed by an insatiable desire for riches”, as the Roman Emperor Maurice informs us in the late sixth century, Avars have long been an ignored subject.
Out of a total population of the Republic of Dagestan in Russia of 1.77 mil., Avars formed 28%. Their neighbours Darginians were the next most numerous ethnolingustic group of Dagestan comprising 15.8% of the total population in 1989. A recent study has found that the Darginians had a high frequency of haplogroup I* (0.58), which elsewhere was found at a frequency of 0.1 or less, and appear to be outliers compared with the other Caucasus groups.
Although the level of phylogenetic resolution applied in that study does not allow further subdivision of the Darginian sample by binary markers, based on the data supplied bz Rootsi et al., it is to be attributed mostly to I1b* (xM26), as is the case for Nogays, Adygeis and Karachais.
This is in striking agreement with historical facts. „We first hear of the Avars in the fifth century, when they still lived beyond the Volga. In the reign of Justinian they… gradually moved across the steppes of souther Russia, till they reached the Dnieper and then the Danube. But in the course of this movement they seem to have left a portion of their people in the region between the Caspian, the Black Sea, and the Caucasus. There is at the present day a people called Avars in Lesghistan.”
The frequency of sub-haplogroup I-P37 observed in the Croats in Bosnia-Herzegovina is particularly high (71.1%) and could be partially attributed to genetic drift (Marjanović et al.). Avar settlement south of the Danube is evidenced by Constantine Porphyrogenitus’s De Administrando Imperio written by the emperor in the late 940s or early 950s as a foreign policy guide for his son and heir. „This is not an ideal source for these migrations because Constantine is describing events that occurred in the second quarter of the seventh century. However, the Byzantines had a chancellery which kept information on barbarian tribes and much of the information for this book evidently came from there; furthermore the empire kept records over the centuries, for at times in treaties references are made to former treaties from several centuries before. Thus much of this information, if it was derived from chancellery records, was probably accurate. However, this does not mean that all of Constantine's information came from the chancellery nor is there any guarantee that everything preserved in the chancellery was reliable.”
In chapter 30, Constantine first gives a clearly legendary account of how the Avars crossed the Danube, defeated the Romans and occupied, partly by guile, much of the Roman province of Dalmatia. Constantine goes on to say in chapter 30:
„[And the Avars] thereafter made themselves masters of all the country of Dalmatia and settled down in it. Only the townships on the coast held out against them, and continued to be in the hands of the Romans, because they obtained their livelihood from the sea. The Avars, then seeing this land to be most fair, settled down in it. But the Croats at this time were dwelling beyond Bavaria, where the Belocroats [White Croats] are now. From them split off a family of five brothers, Kloukas and Lobelos and Kosentzis and Mouchlo and Chrobatos, and two sisters, Touga and Bouga, who came with their folk to Dalmatia and found the Avars in possession of that land. After they had fought one another for some years, the Croats prevailed and killed some of the Avars and the remainder they compelled to be subject to them. And so from that time this land was possessed by the Croats, and there are still in Croatia some who are of Avar descent and are recognized as Avars.”
In „Y chromosomal heritage of Croatian population and its island isolates” showed a high frequency of the haplogroup P*, otherwise absent in European populations. Interestingly, the same population also harbored mitochondrial haplogroup F that is virtually absent in European populations - indicating a connection with Central Asian populations, possibly the Avars, conclude the authors. They were destroyed by the Franks at the end of the eight and beginning of the ninth century and from there on disappear from history.

Bury, J.B. The Invasion of Europe by the Barbarians, New York 1967, 262-264.

Barać, L., Pericic, M., Klaric, I. M., Janicijevic, B., Parik, J., Rootsi, S. & Rudan, P. (2003) Y-chromosomal heritage of Croatian population and its islands isolates. Eur J Hum Genet 11, 535–542.

Fine, John V. A., JR. The Early Medieval Balkans, The University of Michigan Press 1997, 49-52.

Marjanovic D., S. Fornarino, S. Montagna, D. Primorac, R. Hadziselimovic, S. Vidovic, N. Pojskic, V. Battaglia, A. Achilli, K. Drobnic, S. Andjelinovic, A. Torroni, A. S. Santachiara-Benerecetti and O. Semino,† (2005) The Peopling of Modern Bosnia-Herzegovina: Y-chromosome Haplogroups in the Three Main Ethnic Groups. Annals of Human Genetics (2005) 69,1–7.

Nasidze Ivan, Tamara Sarkisian, Azer Kerimov, Mark Stoneking. Testing hypotheses of language replacement evidence from the Y-chromosome, Hum Genet (2003) 112 : 255–261.

Peričić Marijana, Lovorka Barać Lauc, Irena Martinović Klarić, Siiri Rootsi, Branka Janićijević, Igor Rudan, Rifet Terzić, Ivanka Čolak, Ante Kvesić, Dan Popović, Ana Šijački, Ibrahim Behluli, Dobrivoje Đorđević, Ljudmila Efremovska, Đorđe D. Bajec, Branislav D. Stefanović, Richard Villems and Pavao Rudan (2005) High-Resolution Phylogenetic Analysis of Southeastern Europe (SEE) Traces Major Episodes of Paternal Gene Flow Among Slavic Populations, Mol. Biol. Evol. 22(10):1964–1975. 2005.

Rootsi, S., Magri, C., Kivisild, T., Benuzzi, G., Help, H., Bermisheva, M., Kutuev, I., Barac, L., Pericic, M., Balanovsky, O., Pshenichnov, A., Dion,D.,Grobei, M., Zhivotovsky, L. A., Battaglia, V., Achilli, A., Al-Zahery,N., Parik, J., King, R., Cinnioglu, C., Khusnutdinova, E., Rudan, P.,Balanovska, E., Scheffrahn, W., Simonescu, M., Brehm, A., Goncalves, R., Rosa, A., Moisan, J. P., Chaventre, A., Ferak, V., Furedi, S., Oefner, P. J., Shen, P., Beckman, L., Mikerezi, I., Terzic, R., Primorac, D., Cambon-Thomsen, A., Krumina, A., Torroni, A., Underhill, P. A., Santachiara-Benerecetti, A. S., Villems, R. & Semino, O. (2004) Phylogeography of Y-chromosome haplogroup I reveals distinct domains of prehistoric gene flow in Europa. Am J Hum Genet 75, 128–137.
 
Why Albanians under different flags try to turn this thread from course? If they like discuss about Avars can be open new thread.

Haplogroups of Avars, Y-DNA:

E1b1b: 7.1%

I (I1, I2): 0

J1: 66.7%

J2: 4.8%

L: 9.5%

R1a: 2.4%

R1b: 2.4%

R2a: 2.4%

T: 4%

We can see that Avars in this sample (42) have no I haplogroup. And in another samples I haplogroup was not found at Avars.
 
Vad fan snackar du om,Garrick?
Do you mean Caucasian Avars?It is not the same as.....
 

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