Religion Islam: Conceptions and misconceptions

[eemaan]

I think we might have to agree to disagree on the round earth thing, as muslims we accept what the qur'an says, and i don't doubt it was old knowledge, but it's in the Qur'an, no claim that it's something new, it's just there, and others of youwill just disagree with our point of view so perhaps we should move on to a new topic.
How about we talk about the way the Qur'an tells us to treat our parents?

Al-Baqarah 83. And (remember) when We took a covenant from the Children of Israel, (saying): Worship none but Allah (Alone) and be dutiful and good to parents, and to kindred, and to orphans and Al-Masakin (the poor), [Tafsir At-Tabari, Vol. 10, Page 158 (Verse 9:60)] and speak good to people [i.e. enjoin righteousness and forbid evil, and say the truth about Muhammad Peace be upon him ], and perform As-Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat), and give Zakat.

Al-Nisaa 135. O you who believe! Stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allah, even though it be against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, be he rich or poor, Allah is a Better Protector to both (than you). So follow not the lusts (of your hearts), lest you may avoid justice, and if you distort your witness or refuse to give it, verily, Allah is Ever Well­Acquainted with what you do.

Al-Israa 23. And your Lord has decreed that you worship none but Him. And that you be dutiful to your parents. If one of them or both of them attain old age in your life, say not to them a word of disrespect, nor shout at them but address them in terms of honour.

Perhaps we can talk aboutthis for a while?

 

[No-name]

I see nothing wrong with treating your parents well. It is one of the Jewish/Christian commandments as well.

 

[eemaan]

ok, so maybe it's not very interesting, someone come up with something...

 

[No-name]

I don't think it is a bad direction at all eemaan.

 

[bossel]

ok, so maybe it's not very interesting, someone come up with something...

The stuff almost everybody agrees upon is seldom really interesting. Since probably 99% of people agree that family life is important...

If you really want to start a discussion on this, you'd have to say something like "the god-given role of the man is to rule the family, the god-given role of the woman is to serve". Now that would perhaps give you something to debate. :blush:

 

[Mycernius]

I think we might have to agree to disagree on the round earth thing, as muslims we accept what the qur'an says, and i don't doubt it was old knowledge, but it's in the Qur'an, no claim that it's something new, it's just there, and others of youwill just disagree with our point of view so perhaps we should move on to a new topic.

I think it started with that link to that turkish website where the claim was made that everyone thought the earthwas flat, until it was revealed in the Quran. It then spialled into the monster that we had a good fight with.

How about we talk about the way the Qur'an tells us to treat our parents?
Al-Baqarah 83. And (remember) when We took a covenant from the Children of Israel, (saying): Worship none but Allah (Alone) and be dutiful and good to parents, and to kindred, and to orphans and Al-Masakin (the poor), [Tafsir At-Tabari, Vol. 10, Page 158 (Verse 9:60)] and speak good to people [i.e. enjoin righteousness and forbid evil, and say the truth about Muhammad Peace be upon him ], and perform As-Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat), and give Zakat.
Al-Nisaa 135. O you who believe! Stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allah, even though it be against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, be he rich or poor, Allah is a Better Protector to both (than you). So follow not the lusts (of your hearts), lest you may avoid justice, and if you distort your witness or refuse to give it, verily, Allah is Ever WellｭAcquainted with what you do.
Al-Israa 23. And your Lord has decreed that you worship none but Him. And that you be dutiful to your parents. If one of them or both of them attain old age in your life, say not to them a word of disrespect, nor shout at them but address them in terms of honour.
Perhaps we can talk aboutthis for a while?

Isn't it one of the commandments "honour your father and mother"?
It looks like, from your quotes, that it has just been expanded on, and repeated in different ways within the Quran.

 

[yrahmo]

hye every body, ididn't have the time to read all theses posts, but it was really funny. i just would like to say:
-1 our subject is a religion so we must be respectfull even we even don't beleive in it.
-2 most of the participants know nothing about the islam, and theyr educations give them different moral values, so don't force it on others.
-3 to proof quran is gad words or not is not the point, what we tink is in the the islam rules, and in fact it's not, that's the point to discust.
-4 if you ask for material proof, please take the time to ask yourself first, without autocomplesance.
-5 my english is very poor so wish not to be misunderstood.i 'd like to right in french but it 'll be for a few people.
-6 this post have not for gool to hurt anybody.

see you

 

[No-name]

For English being your second language yrahmo you did an excellent job. Welcome to the forum. I appreciate your advice.

 

[yrahmo]

I think it started with that link to that turkish website where the claim was made that everyone thought the earthwas flat, until it was revealed in the Quran. It then spialled into the monster that we had a good fight with.

Isn't it one of the commandments "honour your father and mother"?
It looks like, from your quotes, that it has just been expanded on, and repeated in different ways within the Quran.

only humans look originality in what they are doing.'n if you'r logic,it means 2 things: -the 2nd autor was highly educated.
-the 2 words come from the same autor.
take time to be objectif please.

 

[yrahmo]

For English being your second language yrahmo you did an excellent job. Welcome to the forum. I appreciate your advice.

it's not the second it's the 3rd. thanks

 

[Mars Man]

Hi there yrahmo san. I was a little surprized to see you had joined a long time ago, but nice to hear from you.

I do agree with your first point in your #127 post. I would like to ask you to please explain point number 3. I couldn't get exactly what you had wanted to say.

Number 4 may be a very hard one, but yes, I do agree that it is also a very important one. When I discuss things about the Bible (Hebrew writings and first century Christian writings) I make every effort to do just that--but alas, no one is perfect.

Thank you for your thoughts and for joining in the discussion.

 

[Mycernius]

I think one of the main points of discussion on this thread should be the word Jihad and how it has become a word of terror. Most people within the west assocaite Jihad with holy war as in kill the infidels. Was it not Saddam Hussains favourite word whenever he wanted to stir things up. From what I have read and heard a Jihad can mean a personal 'war', for a better word, against something in your life. It could be a battle against alcoholism, drug abuse or something that you feel you need to conquer to get on in life. Unfortunately Jihad has been misued in recent years and has led to many in the west having the wrong idea of it and thinking that Islam is a violent, bloody religion. It gives the conservate Christian right a weapon to use against Islam, which they see as a heathen faith. In fact this view has been held by Christians for hundreds of years. During the Mongol invasion into Khwarezm and Islamic lands there were suggestions of a joint Christian and Islamic force to oppose the Mongols from the Assassins (A shiite sect noted for their fanatical belief). It was virtually ignored along with comments from the Bishop of Winchester as; "Let us leave these dogs to devour one another"

 

[Mars Man]

While I agree that the subject of JIHAD should also be disscussed well on this thread, and that it can be both a personal thing or a group thing, I yet wish to eventually touch on the Quran and Shariah thing more in the future too.

Things went pretty fast, it seems (I'm still reading up, carefully) on a few points in that discussion without really taking the time to inspect the details. I hope to talk about that and check it out more carefully in the future.

I suspect that it is a little more similar to NT studies than not.

 

[No-name]

yrahmo and eemaan... Or any other Muslim with some patience and courage: I would really really like to hear which of the western misconceptions that we carry are most wrong... I hear from muslim friends (actually only one-- and he says he is a terrible Muslim...) that Islam is a religion of peace and that everything we see about the violence in the middle east is wrong... What can you tell us to set our minds at ease about practicioners of your faith.

Help us out.

 

[Mars Man]

That be as it may (though it is true that Islam started its spread basically by the edge of the sword) I do hope to get into some history of the text compilation.

It appears there is some history involved. I hope someone can give some inside information as well, but I will come back in my own sweet time with some scholarly information.

 

[eemaan]

That be as it may (though it is true that Islam started its spread basically by the edge of the sword) I do hope to get into some history of the text compilation.
It appears there is some history involved. I hope someone can give some inside information as well, but I will come back in my own sweet time with some scholarly information.

Hello everyone,
Mars Man, I was a little surprised to hear that you believe this is true,
it is however quite the contrary!
If you study the seerah (biography of the Prophet Muhammad saw) you will find that the people who accepted Islam became Muslim after seeing the manners of the Prophet saw and his companions and through their kind speech. The Muslims NEVER instigated any battles. When he came with the call of Islam the arabs stoned him and his companions and they (the Muslims) did not retaliate, they just declared their faith over and over. When people started to accept Islam they were punished. Like the story of one black slave named Bilal, his master tortured him to denounce Islam by placing heavy rocks onto him in the burning heat and he almost died. Why did they hate Islam so much that they would do this to him? Bilal never fought back. The Muslims were persecuted year after year for their faith and were evicted from Makkah and suffered years of hardship and hunger. The companions asked the Prophet saw, why do we not fight? And the Prophet would tell them to be patient. Will try to find a link for you, or I would highly recommend a film called 'the message', starring anthony quinn! lol, its very good.
Muslims only fought to defend themselves or to regain their property and for other noble causes etc.
I believe the whole 'Islam was spread by the sword' slogan to be anti islamic propaganda. IMO. I certainly am living proof that Islam is not spread by the sword, and anyway if you're dead how can you spread Islam, lol. Like my signature says, there is no compulsion in religion.
When Makkah was regained by the Muslims, they did go around killing every non Muslim who had previously fought against them, but Muhammad saw entered the city walking with his head lowered in humilty, not prancing around on horse back, gloating at them. He declared that all were safe.
Under the rule of Muslims people of other faiths enjoyed peace and sanctuary, and they were allowed to have their places of worship and were treated justly.
I hope that helps a little but I've got to go now. Duty calls!

 

[bossel]

Why, Eemaan? Oh, why? But OK, now you have the debate you wanted.

The Muslims NEVER instigated any battles.

Sorry to be blunt, but this is crap. What about the razzias (gaziya?) of early Islam?
You don't win battles & conquer large chunks of land against 2 major world powers of the time by simply defending yourself. East Rome & Persia were not even interested very much in the most part of the Arabian peninsula, they had a war to fight against each other until around 629.

Like the story of one black slave named Bilal, his master tortured him to denounce Islam by placing heavy rocks onto him in the burning heat and he almost died. Why did they hate Islam so much that they would do this to him?

Well, Islam has learned a lesson here as it seems. If someone wants to convert away from Islam this may mean the death sentence.

The companions asked the Prophet saw, why do we not fight? And the Prophet would tell them to be patient.

"Be patient until we are strong enough to conquer Mekka", as the Muslims did in 630.

Muslims only fought to defend themselves or to regain their property and for other noble causes etc.

Defence deep in the mainland of huge empires of the time? Regaining which property there? Other noble causes like gaining power, influence & land?

Like my signature says, there is no compulsion in religion.

Good, please tell that to those Muslims who want to convert.

When Makkah was regained by the Muslims, they did go around killing every non Muslim who had previously fought against them,

Isn't that a bit contradictory to your previous statements?

Under the rule of Muslims people of other faiths enjoyed peace and sanctuary, and they were allowed to have their places of worship and were treated justly.

Justly? Well, there are more opinions about that. But at least, in general, they treated other monotheistic religions not as bad as some Christian rulers did.

 

[Mars Man]

Hi there eemaan san !! Nice to see you posting again.

You'll have to pardon me for the moment for not having the direct sources in front of me so that I can give the bibliographies, however, a little research into world history will show us that after the taking of Mecca--which, at least according to one book 'What the World Religions Believe', was without spoils (which may have lead many to see some 'heart' in Mohammad's followers)--there were attacks on neighboring areas at least including the objective to spread the believe-system.

I appreciate your concern, and I also can appreciate bossels reply. (I simply tend to be less blunt--not intending to complain at all here) If I may, eemaan, I would kindly suggest that you go down to a good public library, when you have the time (I know you're busy with the family and all, and maybe you work part-time or full-time too?) and check out several sources of world history and religious history (or resource material on religious knowledge).

Not to impede upon your essence of religious faith, eemaan san, I simply make appeal to your growth in knowledge on some historical matters.

I do hope to hear from you again, and thanks for your comments and post.

 

[eemaan]

:banghead:
Ok, I'll do some reading up...will be back in a few weeks maybe...lol

 

[Mars Man]

Thanks for your reply, eemaan san. I look forward to hearing from you again.