Jewish people, where they are from?

Your turkic ancestry is most likely hided in the Baltic and Eastern Euro clusters AFAIK.
 
Your turkic ancestry is most likely hided in the Baltic and Eastern Euro clusters AFAIK.

AFAIK? What does that mean? Are you sure that Baltic and eastern Euro doesn't just mean Baltic for the former and Slavic for the latter?
 
@Joh Doe: In the case of French Basque/ Atlantic admix I of course forgot Bordeaux and Toulouse as relevant and ancient Jewish communities. Both were within the Visigothic realm, which appear to have crafted a specific political alliance with the Jews. They didn't issue any discriminations, as Ostrogtothic Theodoric, and Jews are reported to have been among the most ardent supporters of Visigothic rule. Moreover, the region was part of the Norman/ English realm, and thus out of reach of earlier Medieval French discrimination and prosecution during the First Crusade. Especially Jews from Tolouse, however, became implicated in French prosecution of the heresy of the Albigenses in the 13th century - Alsace / Switzerland, and in the mid-14h century from there to Eastern Europe looks like a plausible migration path. Otherwise, Southern Italy with its high religious tolerance under 13th century Hohenstaufen rule would probably be the place to go if you wanted to escape the inquisition yet continue trade in Mediterranean commodities.
http://www.midi-france.info/190214_jews.htm

Eurogenes K15 West Asian admix centres in on the Greater Caucasus. After 200 years of Russian control, all North Caucasian populations have picked up some 6-10% East European ancestry, which makes them a rather poor fit for your case. So I took the Georgian Jews as a proxy of a lowly-russified Caucasian ancestry. Such ancestry appears to be stronger present with you then with the average AJ - whether due to direct Georgian-Jewish ancestry, or some Caucasian-Khazarian-Jewish ancestry that was picked up in Galizia, is something my amateurish approach cannot tell.
Noting from your Eurogenes admix results that Lebanese Muslims appear to capture the original Jewish (East Med/ Red Sea/ East African) ancestry component quite well, I have run another simulation where Yemenite Jews are replaced by Lebanese Muslims. The caveat here is that Lebanese Muslims have a bit of South Asian and Sub-Saharan African admix. Both tend to somewhat reduce the component's weight, but are probably not a fair representation of how the Levante's genetic mix looked 2,000 years ago. So I constructed an artificial Lebanese Muslim structure where these components are proportionally distributed onto all other components. Since that should capture the Jewish component, I also replaced Georgian Jews by Georgians. Moreover, as your father looks Anglo-German, I took in a fourth component. I have experimented with various options (Dutch, English, West German etc.), Northern German works best for its elevated Baltic admix.
That still left one problem - that 0.6% SE Asian admix in your genes, and with the average AJ, which is neither European nor Levantine. Thus, I looked for a population that maximises SE Asian ancestry with at little as possible Siberian and South Asian admix. Best choice here are the Dai (SW China), though in fact we are probably talking about some Himalayan component transferred via Afghanistan / Central Asia. Its highest frequencies in Europe (1.5-3%) are found among some North Caucasian populations, Ukraine is 0.5% (though Belgorod/Lviv only 0.2%). As such, the Georgian-Dai mix may be taken as a proxy of how the North Caucasian (Khazar) gene pool looked prior to Russification.

Here is the result (f²=0.46):
Population
Lebanese Muslim 2
French Basque
Georgian
North German
West Sicilian
Dai
Mix
John Doe
58.0%
32.1%
4.3%
3.7%
1.6%
0.4%
100%
North_Sea
2.50
16.85
4.68
33.08
9.76
0.17
8.44
8.44
Atlantic
5.79
45.40
3.90
27.46
18.32
0.17
19.39
19.52
Baltic
2.15
4.79
3.69
13.41

4.70
0.29
3.52
4.00

Eastern_Euro
1.26
2.82
3.27
9.95
3.27
0.29
2.20
1.99
West_Med
10.06
25.04
4.64
6.11
17.76

0.12

14.57
14.60
West_Asian
22.94
0.83
53.85
5.24
10.64
0.20
16.24
16.32
East_Med
41.06
2.74
19.63
2.50
26.75
0.15
26.04
26.20
Red_Sea
11.04
0.73
3.24
0.70
5.37
0.07

6.88
6.79
South_Asian
0.13
2.12
0.83
0.57
2.70

0.18
0.00
Southeast_Asian
0.12
0.28
0.16
0.02
0.19
91.41

0.52
0.62
Siberian
0.09
0.04
0.23
0.08
0.08
2.02
0.09
0.00
Amerindian
0.04
0.03
0.34
0.22
0.01
0.57
0.06
0.00
Oceanian
0.56
0.10
0.08
0.14

0.52
1.47

0.38
0.29
Northeast_African
2.40
0.17
0.13
0.19
1.33

0.17
1.48
1.24
Sub-Saharan
0.04
0.05
0.08
0.72
0.20
0.03
0.00


Except for the Baltic admix, which is still a bit too low, this looks quite good. The under-representation of the Baltic admix is related to its low share within Georgians. If I had taken North Caucasian populations (e.g. Adygei or Balkars) instead, the Baltic admix would have been fine (but in that case I would have gotten too much Eastern European admix).

I also checked which of the above components can be removed without significantly worsening the mix:
  1. West Sicilian: Only slight worsening (f²=0.48). Of the 1.6% West Sicilian, 1% goes to Lebanese Muslims, 0.6% to French Basques. The Atlantic component actually gets better, but West Med is now slightly under- and Red Sea bit more overestimated.
  2. Dai: Somehow worse (f²=0.56), as the SE Asian admix cannot anymore be approximated. The mix gets more Sicilian (2.3%), and less Basque/ Lebanese.
  3. North German: Substantially worse fit (f²=1.29). The simulation is now pushing up Sicily to 12%, Georgians up to 6% and Lebanese Muslims down to 51%,which improves a bit the East Med/ Red Sea/ East African components. However the mix becomes far too West Mediterranean and underestimates the North Sea and Baltic components by 0.5-0.7%.
  4. Georgian: Far worse. In order to somehow fit your West Asian admixture, the model tries to maximise the Lebanese Muslim component to such an extent that the Sicilian component turns negative. The best valid result has an f² of 2.84, it maximises Lebanese Muslims at 63%, and reduces the Sicilian component to zero. Still, the West Asian component is clearly underrepresented, Red Sea gets too high. Otherwise, it doesn't work too badly. By pushing up the Northern German component to 5.6%, the European components (Baltic, North Sea, Atlantic, Western Med) are reasonably well approximated, though North Sea and Eastern Europe are now also getting slightly too high.

Bottom line: The Sicilian component can be eliminated without significantly worsening the mix, the others are required. Essentially, your ancestry can be modelled as 59% Levantine, 32.5% Aquitaine (French Basque), 4.5% Khazarian (Georgian plus additional SE Asian & Baltic admix) and 4% North German. Alternatively to North German, Southern Dutch isn't a bad fit either(f²=0.56), but misses a bit on the Baltic component; Northern Dutch are a bit too North Sea (f²=0.54).
That North German ancestry may of course have been picked up somewhere in Eastern Europe from a German colonist - say 5 generations ago. Otherwise, if some of your ancestors lived as Jews for a longer time in Medieval Germany, one could, aside from Cologne, consider the following places:
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/judaica/ejud_0002_0005_0_05356.html
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/judaica/ejud_0002_0008_0_07723.html
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/judaica/ejud_0002_0013_0_12995.html
http://www.lzt-thueringen.de/files/races_of_jewish_life.pdf
 
A few things.1) Only eastern AJs have a significant amount of supposed Khazar ancestry. Georgians are not a good proxy for the Khazars.2) The Sephardi cluster is made up of Bulgarian and Turkish Sephardim now AFAIK. The original Behar paper from 2009 had the Belmonte Jews from Portugal, who better represent the original Sephardim.
 
@Joh Doe: In the case of French Basque/ Atlantic admix I of course forgot Bordeaux and Toulouse as relevant and ancient Jewish communities. Both were within the Visigothic realm, which appear to have crafted a specific political alliance with the Jews. They didn't issue any discriminations, as Ostrogtothic Theodoric, and Jews are reported to have been among the most ardent supporters of Visigothic rule. Moreover, the region was part of the Norman/ English realm, and thus out of reach of earlier Medieval French discrimination and prosecution during the First Crusade. Especially Jews from Tolouse, however, became implicated in French prosecution of the heresy of the Albigenses in the 13th century - Alsace / Switzerland, and in the mid-14h century from there to Eastern Europe looks like a plausible migration path. Otherwise, Southern Italy with its high religious tolerance under 13th century Hohenstaufen rule would probably be the place to go if you wanted to escape the inquisition yet continue trade in Mediterranean commodities.
http://www.midi-france.info/190214_jews.htm

Eurogenes K15 West Asian admix centres in on the Greater Caucasus. After 200 years of Russian control, all North Caucasian populations have picked up some 6-10% East European ancestry, which makes them a rather poor fit for your case. So I took the Georgian Jews as a proxy of a lowly-russified Caucasian ancestry. Such ancestry appears to be stronger present with you then with the average AJ - whether due to direct Georgian-Jewish ancestry, or some Caucasian-Khazarian-Jewish ancestry that was picked up in Galizia, is something my amateurish approach cannot tell.
Noting from your Eurogenes admix results that Lebanese Muslims appear to capture the original Jewish (East Med/ Red Sea/ East African) ancestry component quite well, I have run another simulation where Yemenite Jews are replaced by Lebanese Muslims. The caveat here is that Lebanese Muslims have a bit of South Asian and Sub-Saharan African admix. Both tend to somewhat reduce the component's weight, but are probably not a fair representation of how the Levante's genetic mix looked 2,000 years ago. So I constructed an artificial Lebanese Muslim structure where these components are proportionally distributed onto all other components. Since that should capture the Jewish component, I also replaced Georgian Jews by Georgians. Moreover, as your father looks Anglo-German, I took in a fourth component. I have experimented with various options (Dutch, English, West German etc.), Northern German works best for its elevated Baltic admix.
That still left one problem - that 0.6% SE Asian admix in your genes, and with the average AJ, which is neither European nor Levantine. Thus, I looked for a population that maximises SE Asian ancestry with at little as possible Siberian and South Asian admix. Best choice here are the Dai (SW China), though in fact we are probably talking about some Himalayan component transferred via Afghanistan / Central Asia. Its highest frequencies in Europe (1.5-3%) are found among some North Caucasian populations, Ukraine is 0.5% (though Belgorod/Lviv only 0.2%). As such, the Georgian-Dai mix may be taken as a proxy of how the North Caucasian (Khazar) gene pool looked prior to Russification.

Here is the result (f²=0.46):
PopulationLebanese Muslim 2French BasqueGeorgianNorth GermanWest SicilianDaiMixJohn Doe
58.0%32.1%4.3%3.7%1.6%0.4%100%
North_Sea2.5016.854.6833.089.760.178.448.44
Atlantic5.7945.403.9027.4618.320.1719.3919.52
Baltic2.154.793.6913.41
4.700.293.524.00
Eastern_Euro1.262.823.279.953.270.292.201.99
West_Med10.0625.044.646.1117.76
0.12
14.5714.60
West_Asian22.940.8353.855.2410.640.2016.2416.32
East_Med41.062.7419.632.5026.750.1526.0426.20
Red_Sea11.040.733.240.705.370.07
6.886.79
South_Asian0.132.120.830.572.70
0.180.00
Southeast_Asian0.120.280.160.020.1991.41
0.520.62
Siberian0.090.040.230.080.082.020.090.00
Amerindian0.040.030.340.220.010.570.060.00
Oceanian0.560.100.080.14
0.521.47
0.380.29
Northeast_African2.400.170.130.191.33
0.171.481.24
Sub-Saharan0.040.050.080.720.200.030.00

Except for the Baltic admix, which is still a bit too low, this looks quite good. The under-representation of the Baltic admix is related to its low share within Georgians. If I had taken North Caucasian populations (e.g. Adygei or Balkars) instead, the Baltic admix would have been fine (but in that case I would have gotten too much Eastern European admix).

I also checked which of the above components can be removed without significantly worsening the mix:
  1. West Sicilian: Only slight worsening (f²=0.48). Of the 1.6% West Sicilian, 1% goes to Lebanese Muslims, 0.6% to French Basques. The Atlantic component actually gets better, but West Med is now slightly under- and Red Sea bit more overestimated.
  2. Dai: Somehow worse (f²=0.56), as the SE Asian admix cannot anymore be approximated. The mix gets more Sicilian (2.3%), and less Basque/ Lebanese.
  3. North German: Substantially worse fit (f²=1.29). The simulation is now pushing up Sicily to 12%, Georgians up to 6% and Lebanese Muslims down to 51%,which improves a bit the East Med/ Red Sea/ East African components. However the mix becomes far too West Mediterranean and underestimates the North Sea and Baltic components by 0.5-0.7%.
  4. Georgian: Far worse. In order to somehow fit your West Asian admixture, the model tries to maximise the Lebanese Muslim component to such an extent that the Sicilian component turns negative. The best valid result has an f² of 2.84, it maximises Lebanese Muslims at 63%, and reduces the Sicilian component to zero. Still, the West Asian component is clearly underrepresented, Red Sea gets too high. Otherwise, it doesn't work too badly. By pushing up the Northern German component to 5.6%, the European components (Baltic, North Sea, Atlantic, Western Med) are reasonably well approximated, though North Sea and Eastern Europe are now also getting slightly too high.

Bottom line: The Sicilian component can be eliminated without significantly worsening the mix, the others are required. Essentially, your ancestry can be modelled as 59% Levantine, 32.5% Aquitaine (French Basque), 4.5% Khazarian (Georgian plus additional SE Asian & Baltic admix) and 4% North German. Alternatively to North German, Southern Dutch isn't a bad fit either(f²=0.56), but misses a bit on the Baltic component; Northern Dutch are a bit too North Sea (f²=0.54).
That North German ancestry may of course have been picked up somewhere in Eastern Europe from a German colonist - say 5 generations ago. Otherwise, if some of your ancestors lived as Jews for a longer time in Medieval Germany, one could, aside from Cologne, consider the following places:
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/judaica/ejud_0002_0005_0_05356.html
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/judaica/ejud_0002_0008_0_07723.html
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/judaica/ejud_0002_0013_0_12995.html
http://www.lzt-thueringen.de/files/races_of_jewish_life.pdf

Wow, that's very interesting! Thanks. :)
 
@FrankN

All Jews were completelly expelled from Southern Italy in the XVI century, including all the half breeds and the converts.

Their descendants would become the Italkim of central and northern Italy. All the Sephardim and Ashkenazim of Italy lived in the North (Rome, Trieste, Livorno, Venice....)

http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storia_della_Sicilia_ebraica

http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storia_degli_ebrei_in_Italia

AJs are much closer to Eastern Sicilians (Siracusa) than to Western ones (Trapani). Which is funny considering that Siracusa was never occupied by Phoenicians and the Arab influences were quite insignificant.
From your second Wikipedia link:
Si stima che nel 1492 gli ebrei componessero oltre il 6% della popolazione della Sicilia.[9] Molti ebrei siciliani inizialmente andarono in Calabria, che già aveva una comunità ebraica sin dal IV secolo. Nel 1524 gli ebrei furono espulsi dalla Calabria e nel 1540 da tutto il Regno di Napoli, poiché queste regioni caddero sotto il dominio degli spagnoli e furono oggetto dell'editto di espulsione dell'Inquisizione spagnola.
Ci fu uno spostamento graduale degli ebrei durante tutto il XVI secolo dal sud d'Italia verso il nord, con il peggioramento delle condizioni per gli ebrei a Roma dopo 1556 e a Venezia negli anni 1580. Molti ebrei da Venezia e aree circostanti emigrarono verso la Polonia e la Lituania in questo period.
If my rudimentary Italian doesn't deceive me, it says that some 6% of Sicily's population in 1492 were Jews. Out of which total? Surely more than half a million, possibly one million (Sicily's population today is around 5 million, in spite of heavy emigration to the US and elsewhere). That means that at least 50,000, possibly 100,000 or more Jews had to emigrate from Sicily and Southern Italy. I furthermore understand that the stop-over in Central/ Northern Italy was only short, and after 1580 many (most?) of the Sicilian / Southern Italian Jews moved on to Poland (probably meant to include Galicia) and Lithuania.
That would explain why AJ plot so close to Sicilians / South Italians. I'd guess if you "mix" West Sicilians with South Italians (especially Calabrians), the result should genetically resemble East Sicilians.
 
From your second Wikipedia link:

If my rudimentary Italian doesn't deceive me, it says that some 6% of Sicily's population in 1492 were Jews. Out of which total? Surely more than half a million, possibly one million (Sicily's population today is around 5 million, in spite of heavy emigration to the US and elsewhere). That means that at least 50,000, possibly 100,000 or more Jews had to emigrate from Sicily and Southern Italy. I furthermore understand that the stop-over in Central/ Northern Italy was only short, and after 1580 many (most?) of the Sicilian / Southern Italian Jews moved on to Poland (probably meant to include Galicia) and Lithuania.
That would explain why AJ plot so close to Sicilians / South Italians. I'd guess if you "mix" West Sicilians with South Italians (especially Calabrians), the result should genetically resemble East Sicilians.

Indeed, it may also be due to Phoenician influence.
 
From your second Wikipedia link:

If my rudimentary Italian doesn't deceive me, it says that some 6% of Sicily's population in 1492 were Jews. Out of which total? Surely more than half a million, possibly one million (Sicily's population today is around 5 million, in spite of heavy emigration to the US and elsewhere). That means that at least 50,000, possibly 100,000 or more Jews had to emigrate from Sicily and Southern Italy. I furthermore understand that the stop-over in Central/ Northern Italy was only short, and after 1580 many (most?) of the Sicilian / Southern Italian Jews moved on to Poland (probably meant to include Galicia) and Lithuania.
That would explain why AJ plot so close to Sicilians / South Italians. I'd guess if you "mix" West Sicilians with South Italians (especially Calabrians), the result should genetically resemble East Sicilians.

That is unsourced as the original link says nothing like that. Indeed in the last 1000 years of Italian history, the total number of Jews never went beyond 20.000 units out of a total population of about 10-20 milions of people. This is all documented by many studies.

Almost all European/Turkish/North African Jews are the descendants of the expelled Iberian Jews actually. There was even a study regarding to Jewish Y-Dna supporting that.
 
The Khazar contribution is greatly overrated & overestimated.
Moreover, I find most Gedmatch runs wholly unconvincing given the nature of the components (derived from actual components such as WHG, EEF, ANE, ASI, ANI, etc).
Which is why I'm kind of amused when someone claims that "Eastern Ashkenazi Jews" have more "Khazar" or "Slavic" ancestry than "Western AJs". In fact, one of the Behar et al. 2013 paper's conclusions was that "relatively little observable genetic difference exists between representatives of eastern and western Ashkenazi Jewish populations, suggesting that genetically, the Ashkenazi Jewish population approximates a single large community (Guha and others, 2012)".

Regarding the Basque, I think you might be onto something here (no indication of gene-flow though, so the ~65% Lebanese figure is wrong, same story with the ~50% Iberian fits):

ashkenaziibd1.png


The above is an IBD map taken from Vadim Verenich's blog. As you can see, there's a non-negligible amount of IBD sharing with Basques... Along with Sardinians.
IMO this might have something to do with the fact that EEF-like ancestry was much more common around the first couple of centuries CE and managed to remain until the Ashkenazi bottleneck took place.
There's also high IBD sharing with the Greeks, so I'm more & more enclined to think that the Aegean played a big part in the formation of Western (Ashkenazi-Sephardi) Jewry.
In fact, I'm ready to say that some of the Aegean admixture might even go back to the Middle Bronze Age, when contacts between the Minoans (and Mycenaeans later on) and the Levant were thriving. This definitely isn't good news since this means that we'll be grasping at straws and splitting hairs when pre-exilic genome-wide results come in, as it strengthens the case for a Cypriot-like Levantine population prior to the emergence & spread of the arabs (which had already started a few centuries prior to the appearance Islam, mind you).
There's also a noticeable degree of IBD sharing with Eastern Ukrainians, in this case I think it has to do with prolonged cohabitation and the direction of gene-flow would be mostly Jewish to non-Jew given the region's history (replete with examples corroborating such a model, think of the Jewish cossacks for instance) and the paucity (not to say absence) of WHG in Jews.
Also of interest is the level of IBD sharing with Iranians, possibly a remnant of the Babylonian exile (would explain why I have Iranian and Uzbek Jewish relatives on my RF).
The Khazar theory takes yet another blow here, given the low to non-existent amounts of IBD sharing between Turkic speakers and Jews (save Uyghurs and Anatolian Turks, which are special species in their own right, so to speak).

Finally, I can't help but notice the fact that the level of IBD sharing with Italians is pretty low (lower than the amount of IBD sharing with Basques or Greeks, and on par with the level of IBD sharing with Turks & Iranians), which is surprising given the high similarity to Eastern Sicilians and Maltese (though in a sense you could say that AJs are even more similar to Aegean islanders and Cretans, but that's another story).

Oh, and Jewish uniparental lineages seem to be Near Eastern for the most, and yes that includes mtDNA as well.
 
The Khazar contribution is greatly overrated & overestimated.
Moreover, I find most Gedmatch runs wholly unconvincing given the nature of the components (derived from actual components such as WHG, EEF, ANE, ASI, ANI, etc).
Which is why I'm kind of amused when someone claims that "Eastern Ashkenazi Jews" have more "Khazar" or "Slavic" ancestry than "Western AJs". In fact, one of the Behar et al. 2013 paper's conclusions was that "relatively little observable genetic difference exists between representatives of eastern and western Ashkenazi Jewish populations, suggesting that genetically, the Ashkenazi Jewish population approximates a single large community (Guha and others, 2012)".

Regarding the Basque, I think you might be onto something here (no indication of gene-flow though, so the ~65% Lebanese figure is wrong, same story with the ~50% Iberian fits):

ashkenaziibd1.png


The above is an IBD map taken from Vadim Verenich's blog. As you can see, there's a non-negligible amount of IBD sharing with Basques... Along with Sardinians.
IMO this might have something to do with the fact that EEF-like ancestry was much more common around the first couple of centuries CE and managed to remain until the Ashkenazi bottleneck took place.
There's also high IBD sharing with the Greeks, so I'm more & more enclined to think that the Aegean played a big part in the formation of Western (Ashkenazi-Sephardi) Jewry.
In fact, I'm ready to say that some of the Aegean admixture might even go back to the Middle Bronze Age, when contacts between the Minoans (and Mycenaeans later on) and the Levant were thriving. This definitely isn't good news since this means that we'll be grasping at straws and splitting hairs when pre-exilic genome-wide results come in, as it strengthens the case for a Cypriot-like Levantine population prior to the emergence & spread of the arabs (which had already started a few centuries prior to the appearance Islam, mind you).
There's also a noticeable degree of IBD sharing with Eastern Ukrainians, in this case I think it has to do with prolonged cohabitation and the direction of gene-flow would be mostly Jewish to non-Jew given the region's history (replete with examples corroborating such a model, think of the Jewish cossacks for instance) and the paucity (not to say absence) of WHG in Jews.
Also of interest is the level of IBD sharing with Iranians, possibly a remnant of the Babylonian exile (would explain why I have Iranian and Uzbek Jewish relatives on my RF).
The Khazar theory takes yet another blow here, given the low to non-existent amounts of IBD sharing between Turkic speakers and Jews (save Uyghurs and Anatolian Turks, which are special species in their own right, so to speak).

Finally, I can't help but notice the fact that the level of IBD sharing with Italians is pretty low (lower than the amount of IBD sharing with Basques or Greeks, and on par with the level of IBD sharing with Turks & Iranians), which is surprising given the high similarity to Eastern Sicilians and Maltese (though in a sense you could say that AJs are even more similar to Aegean islanders and Cretans, but that's another story).

Oh, and Jewish uniparental lineages seem to be Near Eastern for the most, and yes that includes mtDNA as well.

Very interesting... Does this map represent all AJs or just west AJs?
So what you're saying is that the large IBD sharing between AJs and Greeks could go as far back as the middle bronze age due to contact between the Minoans and Mycenaeans on one hand and Levantines on the other, and later on through the Hellenistic and Roman periods?
The relation to eastern Ukraine could be also from that fact that many Jewish women were raped by Cossacks.

P.S Talking about Anatolian Turks, don't forget that Anatolian Turks aren't exactly Turkmen, I reckon they largely descend from Indigenous Anatolians who were Turkefied and Islamised by the actual Turks, just like modern Hungarians represent a largely indigenous population conquered and assimilated by a Magyar elite.
P.P.S Yeah I'm aware of the fact that Gedmatch is hardly as reliable as Behar and
Lazaridis.
P.P.P.S Where did you get that map from?
 
Very interesting... Does this map represent all AJs or just west AJs?
So what you're saying is that the large IBD sharing between AJs and Greeks could go as far back as the middle bronze age due to contact between the Minoans and Mycenaeans on one hand and Levantines on the other, and later on through the Hellenistic and Roman periods?
The relation to eastern Ukraine could be also from that fact that many Jewish women were raped by Cossacks.

P.S Talking about Anatolian Turks, don't forget that Anatolian Turks aren't exactly Turkmen, I reckon they largely descend from Indigenous Anatolians who were Turkefied and Islamised by the actual Turks, just like modern Hungarians represent a largely indigenous population conquered and assimilated by a Magyar elite.
P.P.S Yeah I'm aware of the fact that Gedmatch is hardly as reliable as Behar and
Lazaridis.
P.P.P.S Where did you get that map from?

The map represents both "eastern" and "western" AJs, which is logical since they're pretty much indistinguishable (the fact you'd get less of certain components has nothing to do with such a crude distinction, my own father has higher West Asian, Red Sea & North African scores than average for instance while you'd expect the opposite since he's supposedly "eastern").
SJs and North African Jews aren't represented either, if they were they'd be almost completely red (that's what you get when you practice endogamy and experience a population bottleneck, everyone ends up being closely related to each other).

Indeed, I think this was a continuous process which had ups and downs, and went through more intensive phases (Bronze Age Collapse, Helladic re-emergence, Macedonian conquest, etc). That is not to say that the direction of gene flow was always "Aegean to Levant" or the other way around, quite the opposite it seems to me that these areas were part of a continuum and that gene-flow went both ways.
The Botigué et al 2013 results lend further credibility to such a model:

Botigu%C3%A9%20et%20al%202013.png


Regarding Cossack rapes of Jewish women, it indeed took place and might've left a few traces here & there (in the form of typically Slavic R1a clades found marginally in some Jews), but it doesn't particularly strike me as a major component of AJ ancestry to say the least. As I said earlier, the lack of WHG does a great disfavour to such explanations.
So for the time being, I think it's pretty safe to assume that we're looking at the byproduct of Jews being kidnapped, assimilated or converted to orthodox christianity in the pale settlement.

Regarding Anatolian Turks, what disturbs me is that some like to pretend that Anatolian Turks are a single undifferentiated unit.
That kind of attitude severely underscores the high amount of internal variation amongst Anatolian Turks.
Of course, most of their ancestry happens to be Armenian-like... Yet some Turks are noticeably more "Turkic" (I'd rather say Central Asian) than others, this is especially true for Yörüks and Alevis (they end up with fits close to ~50% Central Asian/Turkmen/Nogai/etc). The average amount of East Asian DNA is around ~5-8% and there's a non-negligible amount of IBD sharing between most Anatolian Turks and Central Asian/South Siberian populations.
In fact, the amount of East Asian ancestry in Anatolian Turks is on par with the amount of East Asian ancestry in Russians.
So a comparison with the Hungarians' elite dominance process isn't exactly what I have in mind, kind of unwarranted to say the least.
You might want to check Yunusbayev et al. 2014's latest study: The Genetic Legacy Of The Expansion of Turkic-Speaking Nomads Across Eurasia

I got the map from Verenich's website, a russian-language blog on population genetics.
 
The map represents both "eastern" and "western" AJs, which is logical since they're pretty much indistinguishable (the fact you'd get less of certain components has nothing to do with such a crude distinction, my own father has higher West Asian, Red Sea & North African scores than average for instance while you'd expect the opposite since he's supposedly "eastern").
SJs and North African Jews aren't represented either, if they were they'd be almost completely red (that's what you get when you practice endogamy and experience a population bottleneck, everyone ends up being closely related to each other).

Indeed, I think this was a continuous process which had ups and downs, and went through more intensive phases (Bronze Age Collapse, Helladic re-emergence, Macedonian conquest, etc). That is not to say that the direction of gene flow was always "Aegean to Levant" or the other way around, quite the opposite it seems to me that these areas were part of a continuum and that gene-flow went both ways.
The Botigué et al 2013 results lend further credibility to such a model:

Botigu%C3%A9%20et%20al%202013.png


Regarding Cossack rapes of Jewish women, it indeed took place and might've left a few traces here & there (in the form of typically Slavic R1a clades found marginally in some Jews), but it doesn't particularly strike me as a major component of AJ ancestry to say the least. As I said earlier, the lack of WHG does a great disfavour to such explanations.
So for the time being, I think it's pretty safe to assume that we're looking at the byproduct of Jews being kidnapped, assimilated or converted to orthodox christianity in the pale settlement.

Regarding Anatolian Turks, what disturbs me is that some like to pretend that Anatolian Turks are a single undifferentiated unit.
That kind of attitude severely underscores the high amount of internal variation amongst Anatolian Turks.
Of course, most of their ancestry happens to be Armenian-like... Yet some Turks are noticeably more "Turkic" (I'd rather say Central Asian) than others, this is especially true for Yörüks and Alevis (they end up with fits close to ~50% Central Asian/Turkmen/Nogai/etc). The average amount of East Asian DNA is around ~5-8% and there's a non-negligible amount of IBD sharing between most Anatolian Turks and Central Asian/South Siberian populations.
In fact, the amount of East Asian ancestry in Anatolian Turks is on par with the amount of East Asian ancestry in Russians.
So a comparison with the Hungarians' elite dominance process isn't exactly what I have in mind, kind of unwarranted to say the least.
You might want to check Yunusbayev et al. 2014's latest study: The Genetic Legacy Of The Expansion of Turkic-Speaking Nomads Across Eurasia

I got the map from Verenich's website, a russian-language blog on population genetics.

Once again, you amaze me with your knowledge, and I thought I knew a thing or 2! :)
I see... I suspected that AJs, both German/French AJs on one hand, and Hungarian/Polish/Russian AJs are pretty much the same people. But I don't think SJs went through a bottleneck, did they?
I guess it makes sense that the gene flow went both ways, probably due to trade and such during the bronze age, and during the Hellenistic period also due to trade, but also because many Jews migrated to the Greek isles, specifically Hellenistic Jews (the first Jews recorded in Europe during the early part of the 3rd century B.C.E all had Greek names and were recorded in Greek territories), but also because, as you've said before, some Greek women may have married Jewish men, it would have been easier back then because Judaism passed from the dad back then, and women didn't and don't have to have a Bris to convert. I suppose that the fact that AJs plot between Cypriots and Greeks isn't due to gene flow from Italians, but gene flow from and to Greeks, as your map clearly shows.
But I still am not entirely sure how there's a gene flow from Sardinians and Basques, could it be from a common pre Islamic east Mediterranean ancestry?
In conclusion, due to the lack of WHG among AJs, yet with AJs still plotting in the gap between Europe and the near east, we can expect to have a gene flow from a European population with very little to no WHG ancestry, modern mainland Greeks only have around 6% WHG ancestry, imagine how much they had before the Slavic/Germanic migrations, very little, and the fact that there seems to be gene flow from them, suggests that the European admixture that pulled AJs from Cypriots to Sicilians and Maltese, may indeed be pre Slavic Greeks, and perhaps as you've said, even before the Hellenistic period, during the Bronze age, considering the fact that the Philistines probably came from the Aegean. This really answers a lot of questions, considering the fact that Sicilians came under Hellenistic influence, and modern Maltese descend from Sicilian settlers. Also let's not forget that it's not like there's no mention of Hellenistic influence on Jews during the Hellenistic period, quite the contrary! :)

P.S I'm pretty sure you've answered that, and I know it'll be hair splitting, but AJs, while technically having 0% like Sicilians and Maltese, might have some via the EEF ancestry, also let's not forget that while AJs have 0, they don't have negative, as Cypriots do.

P.P.S Yeah, I suppose that the Cossack rape didn't have an overwhelming influence on AJs, which would basically make them a half Slavic half east Mediterranean people, if that would happen, AJs would plot between Cypriots and Ukrainians, and would have very visible WHG ancestry, indeed, if AJs were a half German half east Mediterranean people they would have visible WHG ancestry. I reckon that there was indeed more gene flow from AJs to the larger Christian Slavic population than the other way around, many Jews converted to eastern Orthodoxy in order to leave the pale of settlement and receive better rights, some did it to advance in the military, or some were kidnapped and thus assimilated into the larger society, but there were some cases, I know of a couple of Russian Jews that look like Cossacks, and who are aware of some Cossack ancestry.

P.P.P.S Don't forget that there were Greek colonies in Anatolia, as well as many Hellenistic cities, this could have genetically influenced the Anatolians as well.
 
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I have another question, as you can see I'm E-M35.1, however I don't know to which branch I belong to, I'm planning to test with FTDNA to see if they can branch me to a more specific branch, I reckon that I either belong to M34 or E-V13, do you agree? And if not, can you correct me?

P.S Oh! And another question if that's alright, as you can see, I belong to K1a9, now I heard of studies that suggest a west Asian source on one hand, and other studies that suggest a Mediterranean European one on the other, which origin is more accepted by experts?
 
I believe this may be the best place for me to find answers. Can a family live in one specific region of Spain with records found as far back as 1630 yet, no single person from this region and within numerous databases connecting with DNA? At no generation level. This is a mystery indeed. Possibly because this tiny town does not have people conducting DNA analysis. Not sure. I'm finding connections with Ireland, Scotland, and other areas.

My Dad's Y-DNA Haplogroup

BT SRY10831.1
CF M168
C+F
F M89
IJK
K M9
MNOPS
P M45
R M207
R1 M173
R1b M343

 
Finally, I can't help but notice the fact that the level of IBD sharing with Italians is pretty low (lower than the amount of IBD sharing with Basques or Greeks, and on par with the level of IBD sharing with Turks & Iranians), which is surprising given the high similarity to Eastern Sicilians and Maltese (though in a sense you could say that AJs are even more similar to Aegean islanders and Cretans, but that's another story).

You mean by the fact that the Aegean islanders/Cretans seem to have gene flow from mainland Greeks on one hand and Cypriot like Levantines on the other (like Ashkenazi Jews) while Sicilians/Maltese seem to have a gene flow from mainland Greeks or mainland Italians on one hand and Berber north African like influence on the other?
 
Oh, and Jewish uniparental lineages seem to be Near Eastern for the most, and yes that includes mtDNA as well.
I suppose that includes plain H as well? Because plain H originated in western Asia but today most Europeans belong to it or one of its subclades.
 
I believe this may be the best place for me to find answers. Can a family live in one specific region of Spain with records found as far back as 1630 yet, no single person from this region and within numerous databases connecting with DNA? At no generation level. This is a mystery indeed. Possibly because this tiny town does not have people conducting DNA analysis. Not sure. I'm finding connections with Ireland, Scotland, and other areas.

My Dad's Y-DNA Haplogroup

BT SRY10831.1
CF M168
C+F
F M89
IJK
K M9
MNOPS
P M45
R M207
R1 M173
R1b M343

You might want to consider re-posting on a thread devoted to questions about matching on public testing sites.

However, briefly, your results just show that people from your particular area haven't tested. By far the largest group of testees are Americans of "colonial" descent, people from the British Isles, and Ashkenazim. There's some representation from northern Europe as well, but the number of testees from southern Europe is extremely low.

In my own case, after years on 23andme. I have extremely few matches, and most of those are from South Americans of northwest Italian extraction who were part of a medical study. If it weren't for them, I don't know if I'd have matches in more than the single digits.
 
The Khazar contribution is greatly overrated & overestimated.
Moreover, I find most Gedmatch runs wholly unconvincing given the nature of the components (derived from actual components such as WHG, EEF, ANE, ASI, ANI, etc).
Which is why I'm kind of amused when someone claims that "Eastern Ashkenazi Jews" have more "Khazar" or "Slavic" ancestry than "Western AJs". In fact, one of the Behar et al. 2013 paper's conclusions was that "relatively little observable genetic difference exists between representatives of eastern and western Ashkenazi Jewish populations, suggesting that genetically, the Ashkenazi Jewish population approximates a single large community (Guha and others, 2012)".

Regarding the Basque, I think you might be onto something here (no indication of gene-flow though, so the ~65% Lebanese figure is wrong, same story with the ~50% Iberian fits):

ashkenaziibd1.png


The above is an IBD map taken from Vadim Verenich's blog. As you can see, there's a non-negligible amount of IBD sharing with Basques... Along with Sardinians.
IMO this might have something to do with the fact that EEF-like ancestry was much more common around the first couple of centuries CE and managed to remain until the Ashkenazi bottleneck took place.
There's also high IBD sharing with the Greeks, so I'm more & more enclined to think that the Aegean played a big part in the formation of Western (Ashkenazi-Sephardi) Jewry.
In fact, I'm ready to say that some of the Aegean admixture might even go back to the Middle Bronze Age, when contacts between the Minoans (and Mycenaeans later on) and the Levant were thriving. This definitely isn't good news since this means that we'll be grasping at straws and splitting hairs when pre-exilic genome-wide results come in, as it strengthens the case for a Cypriot-like Levantine population prior to the emergence & spread of the arabs (which had already started a few centuries prior to the appearance Islam, mind you).
There's also a noticeable degree of IBD sharing with Eastern Ukrainians, in this case I think it has to do with prolonged cohabitation and the direction of gene-flow would be mostly Jewish to non-Jew given the region's history (replete with examples corroborating such a model, think of the Jewish cossacks for instance) and the paucity (not to say absence) of WHG in Jews.
Also of interest is the level of IBD sharing with Iranians, possibly a remnant of the Babylonian exile (would explain why I have Iranian and Uzbek Jewish relatives on my RF).
The Khazar theory takes yet another blow here, given the low to non-existent amounts of IBD sharing between Turkic speakers and Jews (save Uyghurs and Anatolian Turks, which are special species in their own right, so to speak).

Finally, I can't help but notice the fact that the level of IBD sharing with Italians is pretty low (lower than the amount of IBD sharing with Basques or Greeks, and on par with the level of IBD sharing with Turks & Iranians), which is surprising given the high similarity to Eastern Sicilians and Maltese (though in a sense you could say that AJs are even more similar to Aegean islanders and Cretans, but that's another story).

Oh, and Jewish uniparental lineages seem to be Near Eastern for the most, and yes that includes mtDNA as well.

Hey, I went to that site you talked about and it seems like the map currently present there is a little different. While it seems like the highest gene flow is still from Greeks, south Russians now seem to have more IBD sharing with AJs than east Ukrainians for example. Why did the maps change?

Here's the link for the map I currently found on the map: https://verenich.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/taminuschuvashibd.png
 

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