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Jewish people, where they are from?

Angela said:
Of the three I would personally go with Family Tree and then with Ancestry. I would ignore the amateur calculators that purport to give you "Jewish" percentages.

You don't normally see even full southern Italians getting Ashkenazi percentages on 23andme unless they have actual documented Ashkenazi ancestry within the last couple of hundred years. That holds true even for southern Italians who on calculators that actually work for them, like the Dodecad ones, get Ashkenazim as their third or fourth closest population in terms of the Oracle results.

Based only on the results I've seen, there is one small town where some of the people get .1 to around .4 Ashkenazi, but they're the exception rather than the rule. It might come down to one Ashkenazi or part Ashkenazi who wandered into that town a couple of hundred years ago, and then because of endogamy the genes spread throughout the families, and got diluted, of course, through recombination.

Europeans who get 2% Ashkenazi are more likely to come from eastern Europe or Germany, areas that had high concentrations of Ashkenazim, some of whom chose to "pass" in the 18th and 19th century when they had more mobility.

That ban in New York was due to the fact that 23andme used to provide information on health traits and susceptibility to certain diseases. They no longer do. At that time, I know that there were people who got around the statute by driving to Jersey or Connecticut to mail the sample or mailed it from a friend's house in another state. The results can be mailed anywhere, including New York. Some people are obsessed. :)

I'm not, of course, recommending that you engage in any such shenanigans to get around the statute.
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Very interesting. Familytree doesn't recognize any of my British heritage but Ancestry gets it on the money. The NY law is so frustrating! I am between Canada and Pennsylvania, maybe I should take a little drive, to see the country...no shenanigans of course. :)
 
Angela: Why do you think I meant Saudi Arabs? Is Saudi Arabs = Arabs in general? You have some fixation about how Arabs looked like and it has to be Saudis? OK: so the Cypriots might not correlate exactly with Saudi Arabs in your plot but they still correlate with Turks, Lebanese, Syrians, and the Druze. Aren't the Syrians, Druze and Lebanese Arab? The term "Arab" is more of a cultural construct but they still have genetic similarities.
 
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I haven't read the entire thread (or the many other ones on this site, save in part), so forgive me if this has already been covered ----->>>>

What do people on this forum think about Shlomo Sand's argument that, after the fall of Carthage in 146 BC, Carthaginian populations converted to Judaism en masse?

For Sand, the diffusion of Judaism across the Mediterranean reflected not the violent dispersal of populations from Judea, but rather the widespread adoption of Judaism by Phoenician (and Carthaginian) communities that already existed throughout the Mediterranean, especially North Africa (modern day Tunisia and points west), western Sicily and Spain. Judaism spread via proselytization among sympathetic Semitic groups, followed by Berbers as a secondary audience.

Even if Sand is wrong about the Khazar origin of Ashkenazi groups, could he not be right about the Punic origin of Sephardic Jews? And perhaps the Mediterranean component in today's Ashkenazi might also be in large part Carthaginian (allowing for the fact that Carthaginians likely mixed with local populations wherever they founded colonies)?
 
His opinions are complete and utter nonsense, imo. Everything is against it: genetics, archaeology and history. It's a pipe dream.

Someone should send him a ticket to Rome so he can see the Arch of Titus for himself. :)

I've actually always questioned his sanity.
 
KayBur said:
Erroneous opinions are based on the study of false sources of information. Finding out whether the source is telling the truth is quite simple - you just need to drive that query into the search engine. on which you are looking for information, and compare the content of at least those sites that are on the first page in the search results. But some don't. They saw or heard some kind of nonsense and, instead of checking the information, immediately begin to convince others that they are right, ignoring reliable sources of information.
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You can tell a lot just from the dates of the material people like that use. For years t-rolls were using the writings of an amateur "historian" from the 19th century to explain Greek genetics.

If you think about it for more than a second you realize what they're doing is finding any source, no matter how outdated, no matter how lacking in actual evidence, which supports their agenda against some group or other, or supports their own feelings of grandiosity.

Part of it is also that they don't have the education to understand genetics papers.

Or in some cases they don't understand that you have to have "data" of some sort to support a hypothesis. You can't just make up a story and expect it to be taken seriously.

It's best in a lot of cases to just ignore them. Eventually, the actual evidence becomes overwhelming and they're exposed. Look at what's happened to Elhaik, and he even threw some data at the issue. He's a joke now. How could anyone take something seriously which proffers not one shred of evidence, but says well, it could have happened this way.
 
Seems they were Iranian like, and later on took in some Levantine, and then European Med before moving into the Baltics. You could say they are 40% Iranian (CHG), 25% Levantine (Basal Eurasian), 30% Italian (EEF), and 5% Baltic/Germanic (EHG) excluded in non-Ashkenazi.
 
Levantines were mostly Levantine Neolithic. They weren't Anatolian farmer like. The EEF were Anatolian farmer like with some additional WHG. Italians aren't all EEF. Personally, I'm 30% steppe.

I think you're confused.
 
Im using generalizations. Here are the results in Vahadoo for an Ashkenazi, and a Mountain Jew with all Jewish templates removed including Ash. and Mountain.



[TH="class: singleheader, colspan: 2, align: left"]Target: Ashkenazi
Distance: 2.2343% / 2.23425618
[/TH]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]51.0[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Lebanese_Druze[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]16.4[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Swiss_Italian[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]14.8[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Sardinia[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]10.7[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Latvian[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]4.9[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Tunisian[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]1.6[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Egyptian[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]0.3[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]East_Greenlander[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]0.2[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Tujia[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]0.1[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Japanese[/TD]



[TH="class: singleheader, colspan: 2, align: left"]Target: Mountain_Jew_Chechnya
Distance: 0.4122% / 0.41222362
[/TH]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]42.0[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Mandean[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]16.4[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Assyrian_West[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]9.9[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Assyrian_North[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]9.4[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Greek_Caucasus[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]8.3[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Kurd_Iran[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]5.9[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Laz[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]3.5[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Lebanese_Druze[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]2.4[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Armenian_East[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]1.8[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Parsi_India[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]0.4[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Karitiana[/TD]

Most other Jewish groups should fall between these two.
 
Here is an Iraqi Jew done with the same idea.


[TH="class: singleheader, colspan: 2, align: left"]Target: Iraqi_Jew
Distance: 2.6134% / 2.61343008
[/TH]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]41.6[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Mandean[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]30.8[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Assyrian_North[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]25.6[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Lebanese_Christian[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]2.0[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Lebanese_Druze[/TD]
 
40% European isn't out of the question for the Ashkenazim, although it may be more.

As European Jews have European ancestry, so do Middle Eastern Jews have Middle Eastern ancestry.

I think we know all that.

You can get these things to show widely varying percentages depending on the samples you use.

The only thing that will really advance what we know are indisputably Jewish samples from the late Hellenization period and the early Roman period, both from Judea and Galilee and from Asia Minor, Greece etc.
 
al-kochol said:
Have we ever discussed here about Khazaria, the Eastern European state, and its Khazar rulers that converted to Judaism in the VIII century?
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I find Yfull's R1b_L584 basal tree interesting, just saying. And now we have more Hunter Gatherer from the Northern Caucasus around 27k+/- that should prove interesting.
 
New Englander said:
Anyone that brings up Khazaria in these subjects should be banned immediately
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Freedom of speech :rolleyes2:

P.s
Even a little kid who knows
Nothing about haplogroups
Can see that modern jews are not
Descendents from khazars if that
Was the case than r1a would be the dominant
Haplogroup among them.. (instead of j1,j2, e1b1b)
The few jews who belong to r1a
Belong to r1a-z93 the more indo-iranian
Rather than r1a-z280:thinking:
Nethaniau among them.....
 
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This comment is ignorant of what intelligence is and what intelligence exists among Jews as a population. Religious Jews are not extremely dumb - in fact, religious education is what lead to the intelligence in Ashkenazi Jews. In a few hundred years secular Jews won't exist, and religious ones will.
 
Jflohr said:
This comment is ignorant of what intelligence is and what intelligence exists among Jews as a population. Religious Jews are not extremely dumb - in fact, religious education is what lead to the intelligence in Ashkenazi Jews. In a few hundred years secular Jews won't exist, and religious ones will.
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i never said anything about the intelligence of jews ( from where you bring that up that's beyond me)
i only said that even a small kid can undersatnd from distribution of the y haplogroups in modern jews ( j1+ j2+ e1b1b small r1a%)
that they do descendent from israelites at least in paternal line and definitely not from khazars
here is a research on khazars bones from south russia :

https://www.elibrary.ru/item.asp?id=44810642




Y-CHROMOSOME HAPLOGROUP DIVERSITY IN KHAZAR BURIALS FROM SOUTHERN RUSSIA
KORNIENKO I.V.[FONT=&quot]*[/FONT]1,2,
FALEEVA T.G.1,2,3,4,
SCHURR T.G.5,
ARAMOVA O. YU.1,3,
OCHIR-GORYAEVA M.A.1,
BATIEVA E.F.6,
VDOVCHENKOV E.V.3,
MOSHKOV N.E.7,8,9,
KUKANOVA V.V.1,
IVANOV I.N.10,
SIDORENKO YU. S.2,11,
TATARINOVA T.V.12,13,14,15


1 Kalmyk Scientific Center of the Russian Academy of Sciences, Elista, Russia
2 Federal Research Center The Southern Scientific Center of the Russian Academy of Sciences, Rostov-on-Don, Russia
3 Southern Federal University, Rostov-on-Don, Russia
4 111th Main State Center of Medical Forensic and Criminalistics Examinations, Rostov-on-Don, Russia
5 The University of Pennsylvania Museum of Archeology and Anthropology, Philadelphia, USA
6 Azov Historical, Archaeological and Paleontological Museum-Reserve, Azov, Russia
7 Synthetic and Systems Biology Unit, Biological Research Centre, Szeged, Hungary
8 Doctoral School of Interdisciplinary Medicine, University of Szeged, Szeged, Hungary
9 National Research University Higher School of Economics, Moscow, Russia
10 Mechnikov North-Western State Medical University, St. Petersburg, Russia
11 National Medical Oncology Research Center, Rostov-on-Don, Russia
12 Department of Biology, University of La Verne, La Verne, California, USA
13 Siberian Federal University, Krasnoyarsk, Russia
14 Kharkevich Institute for Information Transmission Problems, Russian Academy of Sciences, Moscow, Russia
15 Vavilov Institute of General Genetics, Russian Academy of Sciences, Moscow, Russia
Genetic studies of archaeological burials open up new possibilities for investigating the cultural-historical development of ancient populations, providing objective data that can be used to investigate the most controversial problems of archeology. In this work, we analyzed the Y-chromosomes of nine skeletons recovered from elite burial mounds attributed to the 7th–9th centuries of the Khazar Khaganate in the modern Rostov region. Genotyping of polymorphic microsatellite loci of the Y chromosome made it possible to establish that among the nine skeletons studied, three individuals had R1a Y-haplogroup, two had C2b, and one each had G2a, N1a, Q, and R1b Y-haplogroups. Such results were noteworthy for the mixture of West Eurasian and East Asian paternal lineages in these samples. The Y-chromosome data are consistent with the results of the craniological study and genome-wide analysis of the same individuals in showing mixed genetic origins for the early medieval Khazar nobility. These findings are not surprising in light of the history of the Khazar Khaganate, which arose through its separation from the Western Turkic Khaganate and establishment in the North Caucasus and East European steppes.

Keywords: khazars, East European steppes, burial mounds, ancient DNA, Y-STR
 
Lol my apologies, I was replying to someone else who said something ignorant about religious ashkenzim (me) which I know for a fact to be wrong...I guess I replied to the wrong person or something. Yes, I agree the Khazar theory makes no sense to any serious person. While Jews lived in the Khazar kingdom, the actual Khazar admixture within Ashkenazim is probably none.
 
Hello Everyone! That's my first post here.

Recently I did a MyHeritage DNA test. It turned out that I'm 6,5% Ashkenazi. What does it mean actually? One of my great-great-grandparents was Jewish, am I right?
 
Vidhi said:
Hello Everyone! That's my first post here.

Recently I did a MyHeritage DNA test. It turned out that I'm 6,5% Ashkenazi. What does it mean actually? One of my great-great-grandparents was Jewish, am I right?
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No, MyHeritage is a company based in Israel and their reference groups must include a lot of Jewish people so their algorithms see Jewishness everywhere. Don't worry about it.
 
I would agree so long as you don't see it on other commercial tests.

My caveat is because given the history of Eastern Europe, a good number of Jews "passed" to avoid persecution.
 
oriental said:
According to the Bible Abraham around 1200 or 1500 BC was a shepherd so there were no Jews before that. R1b people were pastorialists and roamed around Middle East, Anatolia and Balkans. Of course, many people may have taken up shepherding as there was meat on the hooves - no need for hunting as all that is needed is feed the goats on pasture. The shepherds were a nuisance to the Babylonians till the Amorites who were shepherds under Hammarabi took over Babylon. These shepherd people might be the precursors to the Jews as the Ten Commandments come from the 'Hammarabi Code'. Around this time the phenomenon of the Sea Peoples occurred. Among the Sea Peoples who were killed were a few thousand circumcised dead when they attacked Egypt. The desert people were circumcised as sand getting into sensitive genital parts may have led to circumcision. The Sea Peoples were Haplogroup I, G and E driven out of Europe or from Anatolia. The I and G people may have stayed mainly in Anatolia but the E people may have joined the J people in settling in the Levant. J people originating from Arabia. Thus you have these people in the region of today's Israel. When Judaism arose these were the people J, E, R1b and maybe even some G. Of course no tribe is purely of a certain Haplogroup as families have boys and girls who knows what boys may be attracted by the girls and also tribes form confederation against a common enemy. There is going to be mingling.
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You make several mistakes. First, Abraham was a shepherd from 2000BC. Which does match in time with IndoEuropeans shepherds invading all the lands North of the Caucasus and The Black Sea, deep into Western Europe. Your thesis that Hammurabi (1700s BC) may have come from a related shepherd tribe is a possibility, even though a city like Babylon requires something more than shepherds, maybe educated traders, to be founded.

The Sea Peoples happened in 1200BC, and the must have been J2, because the most likely thing is they were Greeks. Because they came to Egypt and Israel from the Sea, and they attacked Troy around the same time.
 
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