Kosovo minorities are possibly largely of Albanian origin Y-DNA study finds

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monster

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Ethnic group
Albanian
Y-DNA haplogroup
J-L283, E-V13
According to Gjergj Bojaxhi, one of the guys that runs AlbanianDNA project called Rrenjet , 45% of Kosovo Serbs have Albanian Y-DNA. Most Turks in Kosovo are Albanian too and most Croats in Kosovo so far tested too according to the Y-DNA results . Turks in Kosovo are just Turkified Albanians according to the results.

 
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According to Gjergj Bojaxhi, one of the guys that runs AlbanianDNA project called Rrenjet , 45% of Kosovo Serbs have Albanian Y-DNA. Most Turks in Kosovo are Albanian too and most Croats in Kosovo so far tested too according to the Y-DNA results . Turks in Kosovo are just Turkified Albanians according to the results.

This is obvious for many reasons! All those policies of assimilations of Albanians would have had some result. On the other side, Albanians of Kosova remain the most Paleo-Balkan population, and the very representation of what the population in early Roman times was present in Balkans.
 
According to Gjergj Bojaxhi, one of the guys that runs AlbanianDNA project called Rrenjet , 45% of Kosovo Serbs have Albanian Y-DNA. Most Turks in Kosovo are Albanian too and most Croats in Kosovo so far tested too according to the Y-DNA results . Turks in Kosovo are just Turkified Albanians according to the results.

Which Y-DNA markers were considered albanian?
 
They probably declared all E-V13 to be Albanian, and some R1b-Z2103, too. I'm not very familiar with Rrenjet but it leaves off the impression of a nationalist political project like the Serbian DNA Project. I'm not saying the latter is nationalist per se but it is heavily politicised. There are Serbs of Albanian origin and Albanians of Serb origin. But 45%? It's hard to take these claims seriously, especially from a people that erected a statue in honour of Bill "Blowjob" Clinton.
 
They probably declared all E-V13 to be Albanian, and some R1b-Z2103, too. I'm not very familiar with Rrenjet but it leaves off the impression of a nationalist political project like the Serbian DNA Project. I'm not saying the latter is nationalist per se but it is heavily politicised. There are Serbs of Albanian origin and Albanians of Serb origin. But 45%? It's hard to take these claims seriously, especially from a people that erected a statue in honour of Bill "Blowjob" Clinton.
E-V13 is not even found in ancient Illyrians,and somehow they claim it to be THE illyrian marker.
 
Which Y-DNA markers were considered albanian?
That's the real question, especially since not that many of the Serbs have done a BigY or similar NGS test. And for a subclade being a safe Albanian founder lineage, it needs to be specified.

E.g. its not enough to be E-FGC11457, but the Serb needs to be e.g. E-Y173822 or E-Y146090. If they just determined he is E-FGC11457, that's not safe assumption, unless he has very close distances to Albanians under one of the clearly Albanian founder lineages.

I really wonder how they determined it. Careful STR analysis, NGS testing, or just guesswork?

A Paleobalkan origin doesn't equal Albanian, because Proto-Albanian dates to a much later period and being a specific, newly founded, Late Antiquity people. Surely based on more ancient roots, but not necessarily identical to those older people like Illyrians, Dardanians, Thracians, Paeonians, Greeks etc.
I just hope he doesn't equal Paleobalkan with Albanian, because that would be outright wrong. Can't understand a lot, other than him mentioning e.g. Illyrians and Dardanians, so I don't know the quality of the arguments.
 
It doesn't matter because Y DNA distribution doesn't mean much. A person can have Y DNA E/J/G but still have mostly Slavic autosomal DNA, and opposite.
 
That's the real question, especially since not that many of the Serbs have done a BigY or similar NGS test. And for a subclade being a safe Albanian founder lineage, it needs to be specified.

E.g. its not enough to be E-FGC11457, but the Serb needs to be e.g. E-Y173822 or E-Y146090. If they just determined he is E-FGC11457, that's not safe assumption, unless he has very close distances to Albanians under one of the clearly Albanian founder lineages.

I really wonder how they determined it. Careful STR analysis, NGS testing, or just guesswork?

A Paleobalkan origin doesn't equal Albanian, because Proto-Albanian dates to a much later period and being a specific, newly founded, Late Antiquity people. Surely based on more ancient roots, but not necessarily identical to those older people like Illyrians, Dardanians, Thracians, Paeonians, Greeks etc.
I just hope he doesn't equal Paleobalkan with Albanian, because that would be outright wrong. Can't understand a lot, other than him mentioning e.g. Illyrians and Dardanians, so I don't know the quality of the arguments.
This thread is redundant and shouldn't have been opened in my opinion but anyways. I think the bold part is most likely the case. Besides, E1b-V13 clades are just massively diverse among Albanians and crucial in early Para-Albanian origins similarly for R1b-Z2103>BY611>Z2705 which has an undoubtedly Pan-Albanian distribution.

By the looks of it the most Albanian derived patrilineage in those mentioned Slavs should come from the latter two lineages. Illyrian folks did not really mix with the Slavs. Female lineages like H12a or certain H7 or H5 lineages match major Albanian E1b-V13 and/or R1b-Z2103 clades. The rest of non-Slavic Y-DNA and MtDNA has been picked up along the way. The idea that there was some sort of definite in situ assimilation is absolutely wrong, especially when considering that the pre-Slavic uniparental makeup in certain Slavic inhabited regions doesn't match that of pre-Roman antiquity whatsoever.

I am pretty sure I reacted to that type of second bold part you've repetitively posted in the past. Very easy, if Thracians, Illyrians, Paeonians or likely "mixed" people e.g. the Dardanians would have died out there wouldn't have been Albanians. Albanians did not pop out of nowhere in late antiquity with a high ratio Balkan BA-IA uniparental makeup. There was a developement from the predecessor population to what you call "late antiquity Albanian" as it has been for every other pop in europe.
 
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I am pretty sure I reacted to that type of second bold part you've repetitively posted in the past. Very easy, if Thracians, Illyrians, Paeonians or likely "mixed" people e.g. the Dardanians would have died out there wouldn't have been Albanians. Albanians did not pop out of nowhere in late antiquity with a high ratio Balkan BA-IA uniparental makeup. There was a developement from the predecessor population to what you call "late antiquity Albanian" as it has been for every other pop in europe.

Sure there was a predecessor to Proto-Albanian, let's call it "Pre-Albanian", but the point is, that the Albanian langauge came only from a subset of the mentioned people (be it Illyrian, Dardanian, less likely some Daco-Thracian) and assimilated other subsets from other people (Daco-Thracians, Roman speakers etc.).

This subset of Paleobalkan people, from which Proto-Albanian emerged in Late Antiquity, cannot be equalled with all Illyrians, or with all Thracians etc. That's what I meants.

Like some Daco-Illyrian mixed population which spoke a Roman dialect along the Danube, even if they shared some ancestry with Pre-/Proto-Albanians, are not to be equalled with Albanians. These were different people, different clans, had a different background in detail, even if they were closer to Albanians in ancestry and probably culture/linguistically too, than they were to Slavs.

Proper Albanian admixture to me would be admixture from actual Albanians, after their final ethnogenesis in Late Antiquity to the Early Medieval period. Admixture from relatives of the Pre-Albanians, close or not so close to them, is not the same. Its more general Paleo-Balkan/Balkan/even Balkan Romance admixture. That's my clarification on the matter.

Of course, the Pre-/Proto-Albanians must have had some kind of deep roots, probably in a specific Illyrian, most likely Dardanian, less likely Daco-Thracian tribe or tribes of some sort. But that doesn't make all Illyrians or Daco-Thracians Albanian...

And just like the Pre-Albanians mixed with some other people (Romance, Dacians etc.), the Serbs mixed with other people along the way and in their new homeland too. With some of them, most likely, even before the ethnogenesis of the Albanians was finalised. With others, like the Vlachs, for prolonged period of time after both Vlachs and Albanians were established.
 
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They probably declared all E-V13 to be Albanian, and some R1b-Z2103, too. I'm not very familiar with Rrenjet but it leaves off the impression of a nationalist political project like the Serbian DNA Project. I'm not saying the latter is nationalist per se but it is heavily politicised. There are Serbs of Albanian origin and Albanians of Serb origin. But 45%? It's hard to take these claims seriously, especially from a people that erected a statue in honour of Bill "Blowjob" Clinton.


Poreklo acts with lots of integrity unlike Rrenjet and its clique
 
Poreklo acts with lots of integrity unlike Rrenjet and its clique
If a lineage can be considered being of Albanian origin in the way I described above (actual historical Albanian ethnitiy, not some Paleo-Balkan branch per se), they say so and make no secret of it. That much can be said, they of course know that there are a couple of Serbian lineages which are actually, recent, historical Albanian derived.
The real question is not whether we have such a pattern of (actual) Albanian assimilation into South Slavic groups, but the percentage of it. 45 % seems to be over the top, but I won't say its impossible. The open question is just which kind of evidence the speaker can provide and viewing the video doesn't help us non-Albanian speakers a lot.
 
What we officially have is a scientific paper: "Mihajlovic, Milica; Tanasic, Vanja; Markovic, Milica Keckarevic; Kecmanovic, Miljana; Keckarevic, Dusan (2022-11-01). "Distribution of Y-chromosome haplogroups in Serbian population groups originating from historically and geographically significant distinct parts of the Balkan Peninsula"

Kosovo Serbs have I2a 35%, R1a 12%, E1b 23%, R1b 8%, J1-J2 11%.

These are the E1b and R1b branches of Kosovo Serbs:
E1b
https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y328959/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-FT89249/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Z1057/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y126722/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Z38456/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-A783/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Z5018/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y167794/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-L241/
R1b
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y168201/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y32147/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y207622/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y112728/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-BY199059/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y175368/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y133365/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/r-z372/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-FT49932/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-BY16680/

Most of these E1b and R1b branches of Kosovo Serbs have connections with Albanians.
 
If a lineage can be considered being of Albanian origin in the way I described above (actual historical Albanian ethnitiy, not some Paleo-Balkan branch per se), they say so and make no secret of it. That much can be said, they of course know that there are a couple of Serbian lineages which are actually, recent, historical Albanian derived.
The real question is not whether we have such a pattern of (actual) Albanian assimilation into South Slavic groups, but the percentage of it. 45 % seems to be over the top, but I won't say its impossible. The open question is just which kind of evidence the speaker can provide and viewing the video doesn't help us non-Albanian speakers a lot.
I have commented on his general assesments regarding Albanian lineages in the Albanian language thread. During the interview he mentions the specific tribes (Berisha, Sopi, Mërturi, Shala, Krasniqi etc.) which any Albanian with foreknowledge in pop gen will automatically figure out what clades he means. He obviously does not mention deep clades beyond say R1b-BY611 level because non of the viewers would get it. The moderator himself is a bit confused at times and says "and I am E1b-V12?" and then understands that he is E1b-V13.

What we officially have is a scientific paper: "Mihajlovic, Milica; Tanasic, Vanja; Markovic, Milica Keckarevic; Kecmanovic, Miljana; Keckarevic, Dusan (2022-11-01). "Distribution of Y-chromosome haplogroups in Serbian population groups originating from historically and geographically significant distinct parts of the Balkan Peninsula"

Kosovo Serbs have I2a 35%, R1a 12%, E1b 23%, R1b 8%, J1-J2 11%.

These are the E1b and R1b branches of Kosovo Serbs:
E1b
https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y328959/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-FT89249/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Z1057/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y126722/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Z38456/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-A783/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Z5018/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y167794/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-L241/
R1b
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y168201/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y32147/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y207622/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y112728/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-BY199059/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y175368/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y133365/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/r-z372/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-FT49932/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-BY16680/

Most of these E1b and R1b branches of Kosovo Serbs have connections with Albanians.
Thanks for sharing that is significant branch sharing. Pretty sure some of the broader assesments have deep matches with Albanians from which Bojaxhiu concluded an Albanian origin. Their R1b-Z2103 is super Albanian as expected. If I'm not mistaken even the guy that led the terrorist attack against 🇽🇰 Milan Radojciq likely belongs to an Albanian origin clade as someone of that brotherhood tested for Pan-Albanian clade R1b-BY611>Z2705 which gives the failed paramilitary attack another comedic flavour 😂 I actually also noticed some direct branch sharing in I-M223>L701>YP78>Y199158 between 🇦🇱🇽🇰 and some Serbs living in 🇽🇰.
 
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My thread wasn't about Kosovo Serbs only but also Turks, Croats and other minorities in Kosovo. It might make it seem as if I have an interest in Serbs but I couldn't care less about Serbs, so maybe I should of added the title ''Kosovo minorities are possibly largely of Albanian origin'' . I am interested in Albanian regions and minorities that live there. The Turks in Kosovo and Macedonia are basically Albanians and Slavs that became Turkified according to the author in the OP. Of course you also have Albanians who have Slavic origin.
 
What we officially have is a scientific paper: "Mihajlovic, Milica; Tanasic, Vanja; Markovic, Milica Keckarevic; Kecmanovic, Miljana; Keckarevic, Dusan (2022-11-01). "Distribution of Y-chromosome haplogroups in Serbian population groups originating from historically and geographically significant distinct parts of the Balkan Peninsula"

Kosovo Serbs have I2a 35%, R1a 12%, E1b 23%, R1b 8%, J1-J2 11%.

These are the E1b and R1b branches of Kosovo Serbs:
E1b
https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y328959/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-FT89249/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Z1057/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y126722/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Z38456/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-A783/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Z5018/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y167794/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-L241/
R1b
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y168201/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y32147/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y207622/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y112728/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-BY199059/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y175368/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y133365/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/r-z372/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-FT49932/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-BY16680/

Most of these E1b and R1b branches of Kosovo Serbs have connections with Albanians.
E-L241 is a good example, because there is one major Albanian founder branch (E-PH2180), some branches in which Albanians participate (like E-Z38770), but in no way dominant and it could easily go the other way around (into Albanians later, after the ethnogenesis) and then there is a clearly Serbian branch (E-Y178925).

Outside of Kosovo most Serbs under E-L241 are from the Serbian or other not clearly Albanian branches. What kind of E-L241 dominates in Kosovo Serbs - who knows? I'm genuinely asking for evidence regardless of where it leads to.

Haplogroups like E-Z1057 or E-Z5018 mean nothing, they are to general.

Another aspect is the testing frequency: How important are Sardinians for E-V13? They don't even represent the source in Italy, with their ancestors coming mainly from North Western Italy, especially Genua-Liguria. The main reason Sardinians are so overrepresented, is, that they are better tested due to this one big study.

Similarly, not every branch in which a single Albanian pops up has to be "an Albanian branch". There are clear founder branches of Albanians, like E-FGC33646, E-Y173822 or E-Y146090 etc. There are really many of such Albanian founder branches. But not every single sample makes a branch as a whole Albanian derived. Or do the single Sardinian sample make all the branches Sardinian derived? I don't say so.

There are always two ways to claim a branch for a specific ethnicity in my book:
1) Ancient DNA finds - that's straightforward
2) Founder events in a specific time frame, with a clearly documented branching event within an ethnicity, deduced from modern DNA samples.

A single sample doesn't prove an ethnic affiliation. Even many samples don't prove an ethnic affiliation with certainty, if they don't within in a short period of time. Like my own branch has now many ethnic Germans, but we are all pretty distant to each other, so I can't claim having any evidence for a deep German/Germanic origin for my branch.

The same applies to the well-tested Albanians. Single samples only prove the possibility of an Albanian or better Pre-Albanian affiliation, but they don't make it an Albanian branch. The migration or gene flow could have gone the other way too.

rrenjet has of course many more insights than I have, because I can just judge by the FTDNA and YFull samples, they might know more about all the STR tested people and how they would increase the presence of Albanians in specific branches.
 
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OK I changed the title of the thread now. If you have a better suggestion for the thread title, ask an admin to change it.
 
E-L241 is a good example, because there is one major Albanian founder branch (E-PH2180), some branches in which Albanians participate (like E-Z38770), but in no way dominant and it could easily go the other way around (into Albanians later, after the ethnogenesis) and then there is a clearly Serbian branch (E-Y178925).

Outside of Kosovo most Serbs under E-L241 are from the Serbian or other not clearly Albanian branches. What kind of E-L241 dominates in Kosovo Serbs - who knows? I'm genuinely asking for evidence regardless of where it leads to.

Haplogroups like E-Z1057 or E-Z5018 mean nothing, they are to general.

Another aspect is the testing frequency: How important are Sardinians for E-V13? They don't even represent the source in Italy, with their ancestors coming mainly from North Western Italy, especially Genua-Liguria. The main reason Sardinians are so overrepresented, is, that they are better tested due to this one big study.

Similarly, not every branch in which a single Albanian pops up has to be "an Albanian branch". There are clear founder branches of Albanians, like E-FGC33646, E-Y173822 or E-Y146090 etc. There are really many of such Albanian founder branches. But not every single sample makes a branch as a whole Albanian derived. Or do the single Sardinian sample make all the branches Sardinian derived? I don't say so.

There are always two ways to claim a branch for a specific ethnicity in my book:
1) Ancient DNA finds - that's straightforward
2) Founder events in a specific time frame, with a clearly documented branching event within an ethnicity, deduced from modern DNA samples.

A single sample doesn't prove an ethnic affiliation. Even many samples don't prove an ethnic affiliation with certainty, if they don't within in a short period of time. Like my own branch has now many ethnic Germans, but we are all pretty distant to each other, so I can't claim having any evidence for a deep German/Germanic origin for my branch.

The same applies to the well-tested Albanians. Single samples only prove the possibility of an Albanian or better Pre-Albanian affiliation, but they don't make it an Albanian branch. The migration or gene flow could have gone the other way too.

Most of the E-L241 in Albanians aren't associated with Slavs actually from what I know, such as Berisha e Kuqe has nothing to do with Slavs etc. nor do I see how this was taken by Albanians later , should see matches that show that then but quite the opposite. Also good part of Kosovo Serbs are Montenigrins from Montenigrin tribes that have Albanian origin so not sure why you would be surprised of an Albanian affiliation , even before the full tribal formations biggest non-Slavic population in Kosovo were in fact Albanians and Vlachs also.
 
In the North of Kosovo the Serbs there are mostly from Montenigrin tribes like Kuqi, Bjelopavlici etc which do in fact have Albanian origin or something close. the author in the OP claims the Serbs in Brezovica in Kosovo show an Albanian affiliation.
 
My thread wasn't about Kosovo Serbs only but also Turks, Croats and other minorities in Kosovo. It might make it seem as if I have an interest in Serbs but I couldn't care less about Serbs, so maybe I should of added the title ''Kosovo minorities are possibly largely of Albanian origin'' . I am interested in Albanian regions and minorities that live there. The Turks in Kosovo and Macedonia are basically Albanians and Slavs that became Turkified according to the author in the OP. Of course you also have Albanians who have Slavic origin.
If in the future some scientific work determine genetics of Croats from Kosovo, then we would have a quality basis for a conclusion. In this way, we cannot know the genetics of Croats from Kosovo because they have not been officially tested. If we assume that E1b, R1b and J1-J2 predominate among them, then the conclusion could be that it is a Dubrovnik colony, but obviously made up of local Albanians. However, we do not know their history and whether it was originally so. For that conclusion, we would need archaeogenetics from the local cemetery.
 
If in the future some scientific work determine genetics of Croats from Kosovo, then we would have a quality basis for a conclusion. In this way, we cannot know the genetics of Croats from Kosovo because they have not been officially tested. If we assume that E1b, R1b and J1-J2 predominate among them, then the conclusion could be that it is a Dubrovnik colony, but obviously made up of local Albanians. However, we do not know their history and whether it was originally so. For that conclusion, we would need archaeogenetics from the local cemetery.

I agree. The Croats in Kosovo obviously must have a Croat origin but I'd argue with an addition of Albanian input , if we look at the registers of Kosovo from the 16th century it shows Janjevo contained also an Albanian population, there was a neighborhood there called ''Arbanas'' , I also noticed some Croats from Kosovo have Slavicized Albanian names like Mazrekic, Palic, Berishic etc . Obviously there is also Slavic or Proto-Croat in addition from mixing with Albanians, Vlachs and others. Some people ended up identifying as Croats or Serbs instead of Albanian, there are such cases.
 
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